That's because on that time, we don't have cards that allow Elesh Norn to play....Now, we have Heartless Summoning and Unburial Rites which makes Elesh Norn playable.
Elesh Norn is played without Unburial Rites in control decks.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
Perfect for my Kaalia deck, but should she replace Aegis Angel or go along side it? As for standard... There are plenty of ways to cheat her in (i.e. Unburial Rites) and just as many ways to kill her (i.e. Tragic Slip). However, I still seee her making just as big of a splash as Iona did in the past.
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< Just found the new general for my wife's angel EDH deck
Why everyone's wife/girlfriend has to have an angel deck idk..., but yeah, she's not really playable or overly interesting imo. I'm not even a fan of the art, as they could have made it much cooler with an exploding Helvault in the background.
Wow, first Helvault and now even Avacyn is rubbish.
They probably didn't want to give Solar Flare and Reanimator decks any real ammunition. This card isn't even close to being as good as Iona. There's probably more ways to remove a creature of that size from the game as opposed to destroying.
Vapor Snag, O-Ring, Geth's Verdict, Tribute to Hunger, Liliana, Dungeon Geists, Traitorous Blood, Metamorph, Phantasmal Image, etc., etc.
She could of at least been 8/8 Shroud and I would have been happy with the new Inkwell Leviathan. But what the hell do you do with this?
1
who says rubbish other than the gorsh simon guy?
2
not even close to be good?
Jesus, i'd take indestructible over shroud any day of the week,
No, In EDH use her with Neveral's Disk... and you can disk every turn!!! Throw in Privileged position and either Greater Auramancy or Sterling Grove(running all three in my Sisay deck)....and a Mycolith Lattice(too bad I can add this... the EDH league I play in penalizes us for land destruction!) for totally control!
Looks like she's going to replace Elsbeth knight errant in my Sisay deck. And I just have to see what I can take out to put a disk and lattice in.
Of course she is totally over priced. She cost too much & is too easy to exile to be worth her going price of $18 on Ebay.
I don't think she'll be as bad as all that. The Worst she can manage is dropping Armageddon/Ravages of War/Soulscour/Catastrophe after coming down. And given that she costs 8 in the worst ramp color, that's probably turn 7-10. And there are a lot of outs to her - Bounce, Clone effects, Edicts, Exile, Tuck, Control Magic effects, and on and on. Most of these things are pretty common in EDH as well.
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Under construction:
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I have rule: No General should cost more than 5 mana... EVER!
Black Sun Zenith? It would take 10 mana to kill her with that, and even if you kill the weenies, you've still got a 5/5+ flying indestructible vigilance. Liliana can kill her, certainly, but I feel like the situations where Avacyn excels would be the ones where Liliana's second ability will become irrelevant, and her Ultimate would probably never happen. Nevermind the fact that Avacyn can kill most Planeswalkers by herself. She's not the best creature ever, but "bad" is hardly what I'd call her. Especially since cheating out things like Elesh Norn (a 7 cost creature) into play isn't something incredibly uncommon.
Wait, so we're able to get a triple colored, 8 mana creature into play, but BSZing for 6 (which would be 8 total), isn't possible? Then they have a 2/2 flying indestructible vigilance.
Or better yet, BSZ for 1 (so 3 total mana) and then a Tragic Slip her (there has to be something with 1 toughness out). So for 1BBB you neutralized their 5WWW.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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Starcitygames has her at 15 right now. That seems excessive. I dont see how she is above 10 myself...
Prerelease prices start really high as SCG gauges the demand. The price is adjusted and (usually) goes down after the first few batches are sold. Also, she is a mythic rare, the namesake of the set, and the first spoiler of the season. It will go down.
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As a Commander player who has a Kaalia of the Vast deck, I honestly cannot complain about Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I do understand why some of you are disappointed in her though.
Lol, are you serious? Arcum can do the same thing and more.
What the Hell?!
How are Avacyn and Arcum Dagssonanything alike, other than both starting with "A"?
EDIT: Oh, do you mean by saccing something to bring out a Darksteel Forge?
That is a bit of similarity, but keep in mind, Avacyn needs no enablers to make your entire board Indestructible.
Arcum would need two artifact creatures and two taps to achieve the same effect.
He's also not in the same color as almost every board wipe ever
I will agree that he's far more versatile, though.
That said, the idea of Avacyn banned in EDH is laughable.
Are Elesh Norn or Iona banned?
I suspect she will also be common enough in EDH that she's constantly under threat of being Legended to death,
not to mention anyone with half a brain will save their Path to Exile/Spell Crumple/Tragic Slip for her once they know she's the General.
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As a Commander player who has a Kaalia of the Vast deck, I honestly cannot complain about Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I do understand why some of you are disappointed in her though.
That's just it though - what is she good for besides a Kaalia of the Vast deck?
I definitely don't expect every mythic to be useful in competitive formats, I even prefer it that for the most part, they're not. But for the namesake of a large set, and a character who has been heralded as the ultimate power for good on the plane since the block began, I somehow expected more.
From a mechanical perspective, she seems very plain, and her cost too high to find a good home in any deck that would want her effect.
From a flavor perspective, she feels, well, "incomplete" is the best word I can come up with. The indestructible protection is nice, but where is the demonslaying "destroyer of evil" side of Avacyn?
"You know Manningham's story of the burgher's wife who bade Dick Burbage to her bed after she had seen him in Richard III and how Shakespeare, overhearing, without more ado about nothing, took the cow by the horns and, when Burbage came knocking at the gate, answered from the capon's blankets: William the conqueror came before Richard III."
Finally I can play reanimator in block. Drogskol reaver just didn't cut it.
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I tried to do a quick search through the thread, but alas, nothing turned up.
I was curious if anyone knows why Avacyn refers to herself in the ability (Avacyn, Angel of Hope and other permanents you control are indestructible.) whereas a card like Urabrask the Hidden does not refer to himself (Creatures you control have haste.)
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The functional difference being that one is all permenants and one is creatures... other than that I can only assume that it was not something decided on for a specific reason. Just one of those things.
This could be the reason, though I just find it strange that for the sake of streamlining, it would have read, "All permanents you control are indestructible." Perhaps it is more of an eloquence issue as well. I'd have to agree that the way it is worded flows better than what I suggested.
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I collect Craw Wurm. Feel the pity and send me yours! Current Count: 236
I'm holding out hope that maybe she can be a voltron-type card where if you do xyz, she gets fetched into play. Sort of like Scion of Darkness.
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My articles go up every Thursday at midnight (EST). They're usually about Legacy, but I'll occasionally write about Standard or Modern.
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This isn't a bad target in a T2 reanimator/solar flare deck given what's in standard. There are basically no exile effects outside o-ring, and the only other thing she is weak to is vapor snag.
There is also Dispatch, but Tempered Steel isn't played as much as it used to be (despite it having a minor resurgence as of late). White tends to do a good job of stopping metalcraft (along with green and to a lesser extent blue).
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Elesh Norn is played without Unburial Rites in control decks.
And I'm saying that Avacyn will be as well.
Perfect for my Kaalia deck, but should she replace Aegis Angel or go along side it? As for standard... There are plenty of ways to cheat her in (i.e. Unburial Rites) and just as many ways to kill her (i.e. Tragic Slip). However, I still seee her making just as big of a splash as Iona did in the past.
WUControlWU
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
Why everyone's wife/girlfriend has to have an angel deck idk..., but yeah, she's not really playable or overly interesting imo. I'm not even a fan of the art, as they could have made it much cooler with an exploding Helvault in the background.
1
who says rubbish other than the gorsh simon guy?
2
not even close to be good?
Jesus, i'd take indestructible over shroud any day of the week,
you can still equip ow.
Looks like she's going to replace Elsbeth knight errant in my Sisay deck. And I just have to see what I can take out to put a disk and lattice in.
Of course she is totally over priced. She cost too much & is too easy to exile to be worth her going price of $18 on Ebay.
Captain Sisay
Karn, Silver Golum
Ashling the Pilgram
Omanath
Sliver Overlord
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Ashling the Extinguisher(swaps with Skittles!)
Sakashima the Impostor
Under construction:
Geist of Saint Traft
I have rule: No General should cost more than 5 mana... EVER!
Breaking my rule... Bruna is FUN!!!!!
Wait, so we're able to get a triple colored, 8 mana creature into play, but BSZing for 6 (which would be 8 total), isn't possible? Then they have a 2/2 flying indestructible vigilance.
Or better yet, BSZ for 1 (so 3 total mana) and then a Tragic Slip her (there has to be something with 1 toughness out). So for 1BBB you neutralized their 5WWW.
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T2? Frites. Enough said. Hope you board/main bounce (like below).
T1.5? Dredge and Reanimator say hi. As does COV/ET/WA
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Prerelease prices start really high as SCG gauges the demand. The price is adjusted and (usually) goes down after the first few batches are sold. Also, she is a mythic rare, the namesake of the set, and the first spoiler of the season. It will go down.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
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What the Hell?!
How are Avacyn and Arcum Dagsson anything alike, other than both starting with "A"?
EDIT: Oh, do you mean by saccing something to bring out a Darksteel Forge?
That is a bit of similarity, but keep in mind, Avacyn needs no enablers to make your entire board Indestructible.
Arcum would need two artifact creatures and two taps to achieve the same effect.
He's also not in the same color as almost every board wipe ever
I will agree that he's far more versatile, though.
That said, the idea of Avacyn banned in EDH is laughable.
Are Elesh Norn or Iona banned?
I suspect she will also be common enough in EDH that she's constantly under threat of being Legended to death,
not to mention anyone with half a brain will save their Path to Exile/Spell Crumple/Tragic Slip for her once they know she's the General.
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EDH:
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Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That's just it though - what is she good for besides a Kaalia of the Vast deck?
I definitely don't expect every mythic to be useful in competitive formats, I even prefer it that for the most part, they're not. But for the namesake of a large set, and a character who has been heralded as the ultimate power for good on the plane since the block began, I somehow expected more.
From a mechanical perspective, she seems very plain, and her cost too high to find a good home in any deck that would want her effect.
From a flavor perspective, she feels, well, "incomplete" is the best word I can come up with. The indestructible protection is nice, but where is the demonslaying "destroyer of evil" side of Avacyn?
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I was curious if anyone knows why Avacyn refers to herself in the ability (Avacyn, Angel of Hope and other permanents you control are indestructible.) whereas a card like Urabrask the Hidden does not refer to himself (Creatures you control have haste.)
This could be the reason, though I just find it strange that for the sake of streamlining, it would have read, "All permanents you control are indestructible." Perhaps it is more of an eloquence issue as well. I'd have to agree that the way it is worded flows better than what I suggested.
I like her, I am sure she will see gameplay and collecting as well.
My articles go up every Thursday at midnight (EST). They're usually about Legacy, but I'll occasionally write about Standard or Modern.
My Twitch
I typically stream 2-3 Legacy dailies per week. These are my most common times:
Sun 8:30pm EST, Tue 10:30pm EST, Wed 8:30pm EST11pm EST on weeknights will be my most common time, for now, but here's hoping that WotC goes back to the staggered schedule!
Like Angel's Herald as I commented before.
Or maybe a spell that can summon angels to the battlefield? But I guess that would be a bit broken without a proper drawback.
Or maybe a creature/enchantment that lessens angel CMC?
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Don't forget the oft-played Fiend Hunter
Also a less common but still played option in control decks is Karn Liberated
In the non-exile-but-still-can-remove-Avacyn category we have Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph, both of which see heavy play.
No, removing Avacyn in the current format really isn't a big issue.