well it turns out the good shop didnt get a special helvault but the bad shop did.
i have a feeling this is gonna determine where people play at from now on.
Odd. Our shop cracked 4 foil Snapcasters on prerelease weekend during Innistrad and didn't wrangle in anyone from the other two shops in the area from the news.
Odd. Our shop cracked 4 foil Snapcasters on prerelease weekend during Innistrad and didn't wrangle in anyone from the other two shops in the area from the news.
im not sure if youre trying to sound smart or not.
lets say your random joe age 15, you go to 1 shop and get crap helvault, you hear that you other local shop got the good helvault, you probably think that shop has special privs and would want to go to that shop more because they get the better stuff.
if your shop gave 4 foil snapcasters to everybody who entered your innistraad prerelease i bet more people would go there. however what your saying has nothing to do with what i said.
I'm still not really believing the promo foil cards other than the tokens/Commander ones.
As that stands, it does seem like the whole kind of incentive of a booster pack, which is, you know, alright and all. When you know that's what the result is actually going to be. However, we had no forehand knowledge of what was going to be in there due to the no discussion clause. I'm not sure this is the actual marketing angle they were going for, but it does seem to be a little underhanded and inconsiderate of the playerbase on the whole, where the Sealed events are done specifically to make things an even playing field for all matters save applied experience and expert-level luck. I guess I'm not entirely disappointed, but it does leave an aftertaste I can't help but find a tad bitter.
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Master Biomancer's flavor text should read 'My DNA - I put that ---- in everything'.
No, it was free.
Period.
The pre-releases happen no matter what.
The Helvault is no different than the posters that they put on the walls to advertise the event or the foil promo that they already have.
It was a promotion, no more and no less.
If you paid more, blame your shop. End of line.
Do not like it, sell your cards and stop going to the shops because this constant whining about this crap is just so far beyond tedious these days it makes you all sound pathetic.
It was free, boo freaking hoo, get over it you entitled flesh bags.
No when the suppliers suggested to retailers to up the price for helvault.
But they are not for sale. They are not product. You do not purchase them. You purchased a ticket to the event.
That being said, I'd also complain if I went to a baseball game and saw that the other half of the stadium won free hats and stickers and I was just given the stickers. That's natural.
They are for sale. They're $25+. They just happen to also be bundled with some AR boosters and can only be purchased this weekend.
I'm still not really believing the promo foil cards other than the tokens/Commander ones.
As that stands, it does seem like the whole kind of incentive of a booster pack, which is, you know, alright and all. When you know that's what the result is actually going to be. However, we had no forehand knowledge of what was going to be in there due to the no discussion clause. I'm not sure this is the actual marketing angle they were going for, but it does seem to be a little underhanded and inconsiderate of the playerbase on the whole, where the Sealed events are done specifically to make things an even playing field for all matters save applied experience and expert-level luck. I guess I'm not entirely disappointed, but it does leave an aftertaste I can't help but find a tad bitter.
Let me get this straight. You are disappointed because you didn't know what was in the Helvault ahead of time, which would've defeat the entire purpose of the Helvault and getting achievements to unlock it? Admit it, you're disappointed your Helvault didnt have more free stuff than the free stuff you already got, which was more than the amount of free stuff you normally get at a prerelease. Talk about greedy.
Should I complain because I didn't get more than a 2 dollar rare in any of my packs all weekend? Maybe they should tell me what's in my packs before I buy them. That seems fair and really smart too.
By the way, anyone who paid the same price for the Helvault prerelease as a regular prerelease and claims that the Helvault items weren't 'free', don't understand what free is in the context of retail and marketing.
I had regular helvault (LGS filmed opening...no bees came out to the dismay of some). Got double sided token and a Gisela. Pulled nice Mythics which more than paid for the event even if the promos were "worthless". I also got to crack a seal and have the sticker. Now that will be worth something someday since I am sure everyone just threw their Helvault stickers away.
I had a good time and the Helvault was a nice bonus.
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I am looking for Date Stamped promos from Khans of Tarkir block so I can finish my set. Check my wants if you have any.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
I think what a lot of people are missing here is ''why'' people are annoyed, which comes down to a few simple points:
The allocation of Helvaults was not random: WOTC made this clear in their announcments of the Helvault, and that fact annoys alot of people that certain LGS were given priority over others, with no explaination as to the rhyme or reason that WOTC used, in hindsight of the ''foil Helvaults''.
We were promised something that we were not given: In the announcments for the Helvault, which is what drove the increased attendance at the LGS near me, it was explicitly stated in a WOTC headed document that; "The Helvault will contain items from the Avacyn Restored set, prize support for up to 54 players, and other Magic: The Gathering branded products". This was not true, which was misleading to both the store owner, and the players.
The contents of the Helvault for most use Planned Obsolence: A majority of what people recieved was designed specifically to be unusable with the large majority of what players attended for. In effect, this is the opposite of the marketing strategy for Zendikar where WOTC mentioned nothing about what the "Priceless Treasures" would be, allowing word-of-mouth and shock-anticipation to increase their volume of sales as people recieved items that would be of use immediatly/in the future, and had trade value for those who didnt want/need them.
In essence, what WOTC did was misrepresentation of what the prerelease would feature as an incentive in an open attempt to encourage new and irregular players to play in the PTP (pay-to-play) event, which while having some success has had a far greater backlash.
Me, personally, i dont care either way. I think in concept, the promotion was a brilliant idea, very flavourfully evoked and i hope they do more. However, i also think the way they falsely promised something they didnt deliver and openly misrepresented the whole thing is completely distastefull. As such, this will go down as a comparison point now for future promotions, leading to one simple question players ask themselves...
Is this prerelease's gimmick going to be a Priceless Treasures, or a Dissapointing Helvault?
I agree with points 1 and 3, but from what I've read, and the 3 vaults opened this weekend, there was enough "stuff" in there for 54 players. (54 spindown, 54 overzsized, 108 tokens, etc.) Did you come across vaults that held less than "54"?
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*I COLLECT EHAN106 ALTERS. GOT ANY?*
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
I liked the helvault was a good idea, just wasn't implemented well. Like pretty much everything wizards has done recently
Every store should of got the same thing, be it crap or amazing.
They really should of put at least one playable card into the helvault, I do not mean format staple, I just mean something I could play at some point in some sanctioned format if I ever felt I wanted to. Not oversized cards, tokens, and dice.
I was never expecting much out of the helvault, but it was a bit of a let down to get basically nothing out of it. It was also every disappointing to find out that other events not only got cards they could use, but 50 dollar bills to hand out to people that attended.
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"I'm fairly sure if they took porn off the Internet, there'd only be one website left, and it'd be called 'Bring Back the Porn!'"
—Dr. Cox, Scrubs
I think that everyone is butthurt over the fact that someone spoiled the contents way early, which ruined the mystery of the basic Helvault and then got pissed when there were "shiny" Helvaults that we simply couldn't anticipate. I guarantee that everyone wouldn't be upset if we simply didn't know what to expect.
It certainly reward those who decided to go despite knowing what was in the basic Helvault. My LGS ran 4 prereleases with 2 Helvaults: midnight, 1PM Saturday, 4PM 2HG Helvault and Sunday 2PM Helvault. I went to 1PM Sat and it had the least amount, with the 2HG having almost as many teams as people in my event. Clearly the Helvault was driving people to come despite its supposedly "poor" innards. I'd say that is a success.
As for European incomplete Helvaults....well, that sucks. Not much to say about that.
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"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
I think that everyone is butthurt over the fact that someone spoiled the contents way early, which ruined the mystery of the basic Helvault and then got pissed when there were "shiny" Helvaults that we simply couldn't anticipate. I guarantee that everyone wouldn't be upset if we simply didn't know what to expect.
It certainly reward those who decided to go despite knowing what was in the basic Helvault. My LGS ran 4 prereleases with 2 Helvaults: midnight, 1PM Saturday, 4PM 2HG Helvault and Sunday 2PM Helvault. I went to 1PM Sat and it had the least amount, with the 2HG having almost as many teams as people in my event. Clearly the Helvault was driving people to come despite its supposedly "poor" innards. I'd say that is a success.
Everyone would've been just as upset, it was still only 5% of the field that got the better helvaults. Knowing earlier didn't have anything to do with it.
I personally didn't find out about this until one of my friends directed me to this thread the day after our pre-release, and I feel nothing but disappointment. Sure I paid the normal pre-release price and had fun at the event, and I do enjoy the spoils from the Helvault that I received, but I can't help but feel a bit sour towards the feeling that if I had chose somewhere else to participate in my pre-release other than my locals, or during another time (my locals had multiple Helvault events), I may have gotten something better. When you announce something like the Helvault and you hype what's inside of it, you should at least keep the contents consistent.
So wait, WOTC confirms that they didn't send any premium helvaults to core stores? So what stupid marketing move is that? Why is WOTC encouraging players to find their advanced and premium stores for pre-releases after taking away the regional releases to give all people a pre-release? How in the name of all things not stupid does it makes sense to provide stores that DO NOT NEED THE PLAYER SUPPORT an extra incentive from now on from their local players to attend their events.
I'm apparently supposed to abandon my local core store if i want to get non-worthless promos. A store i play at almost every weekend. A store that has sold magic since Alpha. A store that cannot muster 24 active players due to location. Please keep making so much sense with your PR moves Wizards, cause this one makes absoultely zero sense.
Let me get this straight. You are disappointed because you didn't know what was in the Helvault ahead of time, which would've defeat the entire purpose of the Helvault and getting achievements to unlock it? Admit it, you're disappointed your Helvault didnt have more free stuff than the free stuff you already got, which was more than the amount of free stuff you normally get at a prerelease. Talk about greedy.
Should I complain because I didn't get more than a 2 dollar rare in any of my packs all weekend? Maybe they should tell me what's in my packs before I buy them. That seems fair and really smart too.
By the way, anyone who paid the same price for the Helvault prerelease as a regular prerelease and claims that the Helvault items weren't 'free', don't understand what free is in the context of retail and marketing.
It wouldn't have defeated the purpose at all. Everyone with half a mind could guess where the big bad demon and the pretty angel lady were if you read the flavor texts of any ten cards with quotes. Also, it didn't have content from AVR, which is what they said was going to be in there. Commander cards is not content from AVR. It's based upon it, and is an interesting rendition, but it's not AVR. And how many dice and tokens does WotC think I need? They keep giving this redundant support that I am now literally giving away to non-MTG players as I can. It's ignorant of the playerbase and ignorant of their own policy of what Sealed events are.
Can't complain about rare prices when the market is actually non-existant save for pre-orders. Nice strawman you built there, might want to reinforce it a tad.
And, well, not sure how to tell you this, but they, uh, do tell you what's in the packs? There's a spoiler. It tells you these things. Maybe you should ask your factchecker where he gets his info? Just a suggest.
This thread looks it requires the rescue of blueconcept!
Here I GO!
First I must define the parameters of the discussion/debate/dialectics:
Their was a mysterious prize given out in addition to the usual booster prizes during this pre-release whose distribution across different LGS and events were not the same. For example, some vaults had a demonic tutor and others did not.
So the resolution would be:
"Companies should not promote a bonus, but mysterious, and unevenly distributed prize in addition to the one already regular prize pool?"
Now what can both sides agree to?
1. Companies are moral agents. They are comprised of multiple individuals acting freely and willingly. Releasing such groups of individuals from moral restraint would be absurd and undermines morality.
2. This resolution only pertains to ethics and not to the legality of anything.
3. The resolution was crafted with a negative so that the affirmative held the burden of proof.
Affirmative:
Yes, a company should not promote a bonus, but mysterious, and unevenly distributed prize in addition to the one already regular prize pool.
Using the value of equality and practicality.
I. Equality - Actions which promote fairness or equal treatment compared to other actions are more moral.
1. A company wishes to please their customers, and to do so requires an attempt to give the same products/services to every customer who pays roughly the same amount of money.
2. There is no such thing as a "bonus prize" that would excuse such a return on the customer's money. For example, when you buy a shirt and get 1 for free in terms of the customer he or she bought 2 shirts for half the price. Customers view a full service or product as including any bonuses that may come with that.
3. A promotion that gives inconsistent returns is a scam that lures a customers in only to disappoint them with the inconsistent product. The problem isn't only the randomization but the randomization with promotion of consistency. A customer would view such an act as dishonest because the prize was promoted as evenly distributed prizes only to be varied. Customers are okay with purchasing varied products/services like lottery tickets, but only if they know that it would be varied. This is like purchasing an Ipod only to realize there is only 50% chance to actually receiving Ipod inside the box.
II. Profit and Self-preservation - Actions which promote the survival of the company and lead to greater profit for the practical benefit of it's employee are more moral then other moral actions.
1. Customers who experience inconsistent services and products would view the company more negatively and would therefore be less inclined to purchase from the company in the future. This would therefore lead to less profits for the company and therefore jeopardize the companies survival.
2. Due to the ambiguity of the "bonus" customers will even be further displeased when the mystery prize would seem disappointing. Further compounding the fact that the mystery prize was more lucrative to other customers.
Negative:
No, a company should be able to promote a bonus, but mysterious, and unevenly distributed prize in addition to the one already regular prize pool.
Using the value of libertarian autonomy.
I. Libertarian Autonomy - A company should be able to do anything it chooses as long as it does not create harms or damage.
1. While ethics does apply to companies, self-preservation is not an obligation that a company must follow. By giving out prizes like this, no one is being hurt, scammed, damaged, and/or harmed. Unlike individuals who may or may not have obligations for self-preservation, an organization can reform or dissolve entirely without any harm beyond that job losses which can be regained. If companies were to be obligated for self-preservation, mergers would never be moral. For the affirmative to uphold the resolution it must either
a. prove a harm to anything by doing these actions
or
b. uphold self-preservation
II. Rebuttal
1. Randomized prizes, promotions, and lotteries are given on a regular basis (IE booster packs). The only difference here is that the contents of the prizes were not revealed and the prize was in-addition to the already predicted prizes. To say that such promotions would be detrimental to the company would overturn years of practice and analysis which would require mathematics to prove. The affirmative must also prove that it is not profitable to do such a promotion for it to argue on the basis of self-preservation.
2. Companies cannot view equality as a basis for actions above that of profit and autonomy. Companies as organizations of cooperating individuals are more obligated to profit then the fairness of customer treatment. A company that is hindered by an obligation to treat customers fairly would be stifled in it's goal for self-preservation.
Affirmative Rebuttal on my next post... its getting late...
I think the biggest problem here is the complete lack of transparency on Wizards part.
By not making the existence of premium Helvaults known ahead of time they took the opportunity away from the players to make a decision about where they wanted to play.
If they had outlined how this program was going to work ahead of time then people who went to a normal Helvault event would have no room to complain but when one store has $10,000 worth of cards to give away and another has $0 worth it's completely normal for some people to feel jaded because the choice was taken out of their hands.
If you're happy with your normal Helvault then that's great but people play this game for different reasons and their reasons aren't any less legitimate then your own. Had I known that a store in my town got a premium Helvault I would have gone to my usual store's event AND the premium one which would have made more money for everyone involved AND made me more happy as a player.
I suppose the vast majority of casual players who were drawn in by the Helvault are never even going to know the premium ones existed so maybe this was actually a net benefit for Wizards but they certainly did piss off the vocal minority.
My store got (by the artwork) Judge foil Decree of Justice, along with some other promo foils (I'd thought the store might've contributed them, apparently not). Heard rumours people who drew earlier snagged at least one promo titan (Sun?) and Griselbrand and whatnot, but by the time I got there all that was left in that pile were Glissa the Traitors.
They also had a stack of the foil angel/demon tokens, the dice, and oversized cards.
Snagged a die, a DoJ and 3 tokens.
I would've had a kitten on the spot if we'd gotten judge Exalted Angels. That's one of my favourite pieces of art in the history of magic, but can't justify buying one when I already own 4 EA's, one of which is foil (but regular old school style, so just the border).
I would've just been happy with a Helvault opening promo.. maybe even a promo Helvault or promo Avacyn/Grisel or something (They've done Sun Titan and Wurmcoil before). Just kinda meh, was disappointed.
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Proud Member of the "Help Fblthp Get Home in DGM" Society
Just got the regular dice/ 2-sided tokens and an oversized chick. This said, the PR was fun, the store did set-up the opening of the thing in a funny way, and good times with the local community.
The fact that the oversized promos and tokens could come in foil annoys me more then the judge promos(though i wish we'd gotten some), it's just that much more to collect(i'm that obsessive), that can only be obtained through a once off event.
The judge promo thing is kind of annoying, but not so bad. It wouldve been better if each helvault had the 54 of a random promo, an old fnm card, w/e, then it would feel more like getting lucky with your pack, rather then just getting less overall.
Helvault was a let down for me overall though anyway, mostly cause it seemed they hyped it up, i love free stuff, but they made to big a deal out of it for the normal vaults.
So wait, WOTC confirms that they didn't send any premium helvaults to core stores? So what stupid marketing move is that? Why is WOTC encouraging players to find their advanced and premium stores for pre-releases after taking away the regional releases to give all people a pre-release? How in the name of all things not stupid does it makes sense to provide stores that DO NOT NEED THE PLAYER SUPPORT an extra incentive from now on from their local players to attend their events.
I'm apparently supposed to abandon my local core store if i want to get non-worthless promos. A store i play at almost every weekend. A store that has sold magic since Alpha. A store that cannot muster 24 active players due to location. Please keep making so much sense with your PR moves Wizards, cause this one makes absoultely zero sense.
Yeah, this is what people should be upset about, more than anything. The fact that it was not random distribution was a slap in the face to most people's LGS.
I guess I understand the only sending a limited supply to random advanced stores in that if every helvault was good the proportion of scumbags keeping the stuff inside would have been extremely high. That said I feel it would have been better to not have some randomly contain thousands of dollars in promos in the first place. I really hope they address this(some may call it a fiasco) on the mothership in the weeks to come.
Odd. Our shop cracked 4 foil Snapcasters on prerelease weekend during Innistrad and didn't wrangle in anyone from the other two shops in the area from the news.
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im not sure if youre trying to sound smart or not.
lets say your random joe age 15, you go to 1 shop and get crap helvault, you hear that you other local shop got the good helvault, you probably think that shop has special privs and would want to go to that shop more because they get the better stuff.
if your shop gave 4 foil snapcasters to everybody who entered your innistraad prerelease i bet more people would go there. however what your saying has nothing to do with what i said.
go troll somewhere else please.
As that stands, it does seem like the whole kind of incentive of a booster pack, which is, you know, alright and all. When you know that's what the result is actually going to be. However, we had no forehand knowledge of what was going to be in there due to the no discussion clause. I'm not sure this is the actual marketing angle they were going for, but it does seem to be a little underhanded and inconsiderate of the playerbase on the whole, where the Sealed events are done specifically to make things an even playing field for all matters save applied experience and expert-level luck. I guess I'm not entirely disappointed, but it does leave an aftertaste I can't help but find a tad bitter.
No when the suppliers suggested to retailers to up the price for helvault.
Currently Playing:
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And some EDH
They are for sale. They're $25+. They just happen to also be bundled with some AR boosters and can only be purchased this weekend.
Let me get this straight. You are disappointed because you didn't know what was in the Helvault ahead of time, which would've defeat the entire purpose of the Helvault and getting achievements to unlock it? Admit it, you're disappointed your Helvault didnt have more free stuff than the free stuff you already got, which was more than the amount of free stuff you normally get at a prerelease. Talk about greedy.
Should I complain because I didn't get more than a 2 dollar rare in any of my packs all weekend? Maybe they should tell me what's in my packs before I buy them. That seems fair and really smart too.
By the way, anyone who paid the same price for the Helvault prerelease as a regular prerelease and claims that the Helvault items weren't 'free', don't understand what free is in the context of retail and marketing.
I had a good time and the Helvault was a nice bonus.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
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I agree with points 1 and 3, but from what I've read, and the 3 vaults opened this weekend, there was enough "stuff" in there for 54 players. (54 spindown, 54 overzsized, 108 tokens, etc.) Did you come across vaults that held less than "54"?
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
GP Vegas: It was once in a lifetime!
On Vault of the Archangel
Every store should of got the same thing, be it crap or amazing.
They really should of put at least one playable card into the helvault, I do not mean format staple, I just mean something I could play at some point in some sanctioned format if I ever felt I wanted to. Not oversized cards, tokens, and dice.
I was never expecting much out of the helvault, but it was a bit of a let down to get basically nothing out of it. It was also every disappointing to find out that other events not only got cards they could use, but 50 dollar bills to hand out to people that attended.
—Dr. Cox, Scrubs
It certainly reward those who decided to go despite knowing what was in the basic Helvault. My LGS ran 4 prereleases with 2 Helvaults: midnight, 1PM Saturday, 4PM 2HG Helvault and Sunday 2PM Helvault. I went to 1PM Sat and it had the least amount, with the 2HG having almost as many teams as people in my event. Clearly the Helvault was driving people to come despite its supposedly "poor" innards. I'd say that is a success.
As for European incomplete Helvaults....well, that sucks. Not much to say about that.
My Helpdesk: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7776298#post7776298
My friend's awesome mtg dice: http://www.etsy.com/listing/120956030/magic-the-gathering-mini-d6-dice-set
I'm apparently supposed to abandon my local core store if i want to get non-worthless promos. A store i play at almost every weekend. A store that has sold magic since Alpha. A store that cannot muster 24 active players due to location. Please keep making so much sense with your PR moves Wizards, cause this one makes absoultely zero sense.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
It wouldn't have defeated the purpose at all. Everyone with half a mind could guess where the big bad demon and the pretty angel lady were if you read the flavor texts of any ten cards with quotes. Also, it didn't have content from AVR, which is what they said was going to be in there. Commander cards is not content from AVR. It's based upon it, and is an interesting rendition, but it's not AVR. And how many dice and tokens does WotC think I need? They keep giving this redundant support that I am now literally giving away to non-MTG players as I can. It's ignorant of the playerbase and ignorant of their own policy of what Sealed events are.
Can't complain about rare prices when the market is actually non-existant save for pre-orders. Nice strawman you built there, might want to reinforce it a tad.
And, well, not sure how to tell you this, but they, uh, do tell you what's in the packs? There's a spoiler. It tells you these things. Maybe you should ask your factchecker where he gets his info? Just a suggest.
Here I GO!
First I must define the parameters of the discussion/debate/dialectics:
Their was a mysterious prize given out in addition to the usual booster prizes during this pre-release whose distribution across different LGS and events were not the same. For example, some vaults had a demonic tutor and others did not.
So the resolution would be:
"Companies should not promote a bonus, but mysterious, and unevenly distributed prize in addition to the one already regular prize pool?"
Now what can both sides agree to?
1. Companies are moral agents. They are comprised of multiple individuals acting freely and willingly. Releasing such groups of individuals from moral restraint would be absurd and undermines morality.
2. This resolution only pertains to ethics and not to the legality of anything.
3. The resolution was crafted with a negative so that the affirmative held the burden of proof.
Affirmative:
Yes, a company should not promote a bonus, but mysterious, and unevenly distributed prize in addition to the one already regular prize pool.
Using the value of equality and practicality.
I. Equality - Actions which promote fairness or equal treatment compared to other actions are more moral.
1. A company wishes to please their customers, and to do so requires an attempt to give the same products/services to every customer who pays roughly the same amount of money.
2. There is no such thing as a "bonus prize" that would excuse such a return on the customer's money. For example, when you buy a shirt and get 1 for free in terms of the customer he or she bought 2 shirts for half the price. Customers view a full service or product as including any bonuses that may come with that.
3. A promotion that gives inconsistent returns is a scam that lures a customers in only to disappoint them with the inconsistent product. The problem isn't only the randomization but the randomization with promotion of consistency. A customer would view such an act as dishonest because the prize was promoted as evenly distributed prizes only to be varied. Customers are okay with purchasing varied products/services like lottery tickets, but only if they know that it would be varied. This is like purchasing an Ipod only to realize there is only 50% chance to actually receiving Ipod inside the box.
II. Profit and Self-preservation - Actions which promote the survival of the company and lead to greater profit for the practical benefit of it's employee are more moral then other moral actions.
1. Customers who experience inconsistent services and products would view the company more negatively and would therefore be less inclined to purchase from the company in the future. This would therefore lead to less profits for the company and therefore jeopardize the companies survival.
2. Due to the ambiguity of the "bonus" customers will even be further displeased when the mystery prize would seem disappointing. Further compounding the fact that the mystery prize was more lucrative to other customers.
Negative:
No, a company should be able to promote a bonus, but mysterious, and unevenly distributed prize in addition to the one already regular prize pool.
Using the value of libertarian autonomy.
I. Libertarian Autonomy - A company should be able to do anything it chooses as long as it does not create harms or damage.
1. While ethics does apply to companies, self-preservation is not an obligation that a company must follow. By giving out prizes like this, no one is being hurt, scammed, damaged, and/or harmed. Unlike individuals who may or may not have obligations for self-preservation, an organization can reform or dissolve entirely without any harm beyond that job losses which can be regained. If companies were to be obligated for self-preservation, mergers would never be moral. For the affirmative to uphold the resolution it must either
a. prove a harm to anything by doing these actions
or
b. uphold self-preservation
II. Rebuttal
1. Randomized prizes, promotions, and lotteries are given on a regular basis (IE booster packs). The only difference here is that the contents of the prizes were not revealed and the prize was in-addition to the already predicted prizes. To say that such promotions would be detrimental to the company would overturn years of practice and analysis which would require mathematics to prove. The affirmative must also prove that it is not profitable to do such a promotion for it to argue on the basis of self-preservation.
2. Companies cannot view equality as a basis for actions above that of profit and autonomy. Companies as organizations of cooperating individuals are more obligated to profit then the fairness of customer treatment. A company that is hindered by an obligation to treat customers fairly would be stifled in it's goal for self-preservation.
Affirmative Rebuttal on my next post... its getting late...
http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=317475478823307368#overview/src=dashboard
Like reading magic theory?
http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2901104710618966704#overview/src=dashboard
Are you a navy Nuke?
http://blueconceptnavynuke.blogspot.com/2012/08/captains-mast-at-nnptc.html
By not making the existence of premium Helvaults known ahead of time they took the opportunity away from the players to make a decision about where they wanted to play.
If they had outlined how this program was going to work ahead of time then people who went to a normal Helvault event would have no room to complain but when one store has $10,000 worth of cards to give away and another has $0 worth it's completely normal for some people to feel jaded because the choice was taken out of their hands.
If you're happy with your normal Helvault then that's great but people play this game for different reasons and their reasons aren't any less legitimate then your own. Had I known that a store in my town got a premium Helvault I would have gone to my usual store's event AND the premium one which would have made more money for everyone involved AND made me more happy as a player.
I suppose the vast majority of casual players who were drawn in by the Helvault are never even going to know the premium ones existed so maybe this was actually a net benefit for Wizards but they certainly did piss off the vocal minority.
They also had a stack of the foil angel/demon tokens, the dice, and oversized cards.
Snagged a die, a DoJ and 3 tokens.
I would've had a kitten on the spot if we'd gotten judge Exalted Angels. That's one of my favourite pieces of art in the history of magic, but can't justify buying one when I already own 4 EA's, one of which is foil (but regular old school style, so just the border).
WCommander EeshaBDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefBGGlissa, the TraitorBWVish Kal, Blood ArbiterRUNin, the Pain Artist
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestWRBasandra, Battle SeraphBGWDoran, the Siege TowerBGWGhave, Guru of Spores
RGWUril, the MiststalkerGUBThe MimeoplasmUWGRafiq of the ManyWUBRGSliver Overlord
RRR Khorenthos - The Red Block (Feedback needed!) RRR
My LGS opened the vault during round 1 of the event. There is no way for anyone to know if there's any promos in it.
The judge promo thing is kind of annoying, but not so bad. It wouldve been better if each helvault had the 54 of a random promo, an old fnm card, w/e, then it would feel more like getting lucky with your pack, rather then just getting less overall.
Helvault was a let down for me overall though anyway, mostly cause it seemed they hyped it up, i love free stuff, but they made to big a deal out of it for the normal vaults.
If you got non-foil tokens, there weren't promos in the Vault. If you got foil tokens, there were promos in the Vault.
EDH Decks:
RBG Kresh, the Bloodbraided RBG
GW Rhys, the Redeemed GW
Legacy:
RGW Enchantress RGW
Yeah, this is what people should be upset about, more than anything. The fact that it was not random distribution was a slap in the face to most people's LGS.