We ARE getting nothing at all. That's the problem. I'd be fine with spending double MSRP on this if there was any chance I'd even be able to find one, but apparently you have to spend at least triple to quadruple MSRP to even have a chance at finding one.
I know several dozen commander players at my LGS that I run/own the magic singles collection for, that would disagree with you. While some are certainly dissapointed at not being able to get the whole box set for a reasonable price (reasonable to them at least), and Ill fully admit to being rather surprised to see these selling consistently for $250+ on ebay in pre-sales, there are a ton more peoplle that are happy at the idea of being able to grab the one or two singles they might want from it without having to pay an arm and a leg to get it. This isnt going to be perfect for everyone, and its going to make some people unhappy because of how limited it is, but in the end, I think that it will still manage to make a lot of people happy, one way or another.
I'm hoping that a lot of the other cards in the set are things like Sylvan Library and Command Tower, cards that are widely available but still considered powerful staples, with a touch of pimpage.
I have 14 Sylvan Library. It's an uncommon. It's a valuable card, but it's not like it's hard to find.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
Let me know how that goes for them. I'm guessing they're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
Howso? At least at our shop, Im buying the arsenal's off the owner at a fair markup so I can break them all open and use for singles sales for our customers. Not everywhere is going to do that obviously, some will sell at msrp, some will sell at small/medium/large markup. The singles will be available on the secondary market for whatever the buyers are willing to pay for them.
If you're looking for affordable staples, this is not the product for you. $75 MSRP is obviously a luxury item, intended for collectors and possibly holiday gift-buyers.
IIRC, they clearly stated in the original announcement that it would be "a limited print run product, meant for the collectors and the avid Commander players". I don't really see how that's unclear.
That announcement did say limited print run. The San Diego Comic-Con announcement sounded more for the common player. Either way no one...I mean no one expected it to be so much rarer than FTV.
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Viva la revolution against raising MSRP.
Casual Players: We are the 99%. Buy local or go home.
You can't really "cultivate" the hardcore collectors as much as "feed" them. I also think there has been a lot of presumption on any number of parties' fault about who wants this product. It seems like most of the people complaining about the print run WANT these but simply WON'T get them due to scarcity. This is what is generating so much hostility. Many people want something they cannot have, but this is no FTV. This is something that many initially thought would be goodies for commander players(how many new players sprung up from the commander products last year?)... most of whom just cannot realistically have this. The name is commander's arsenal, not collectors showcase. The point is that distribution is a clashing with a sense of entitlement from the community "I love and play commander but can't get this? WTF?" Is the entitlement unjustified? I mean, many here play commander and would love some cool staples and have already put a lot of money into our hobby. It seems arbitrarily unfair that they/we don't have access here.
You still missed the mark here. Part of the "cultivation" process is to also keep the brick and mortar storefronts going, and this is another one of those products that "throws them a bone" during the holiday season. The simple fact that this product will be able to sell for more than MSRP shows the store owners that if they wanted/needed to, they could make a few more dollars off these. Much like the From the Vault series, these small print run items help stimulate sales for small businesses.
Also, I'm 99.99% sure that if a player wants any card from this box set as bad as they are claiming, there will be more than enough for sale online via SCG, TCGPlayer, etc...
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"[Lotleth Troll] is stupidly broken and will break Standard more so than Snapcaster Mage did last format." - ArchAvalon
You still missed the mark here. Part of the "cultivation" process is to also keep the brick and mortar storefronts going, and this is another one of those products that "throws them a bone" during the holiday season. The simple fact that this product will be able to sell for more than MSRP shows the store owners that if they wanted/needed to, they could make a few more dollars off these. Much like the From the Vault series, these small print run items help stimulate sales for small businesses.
Also, I'm 99.99% sure that if a player wants any card from this box set as bad as they are claiming, there will be more than enough for sale online via SCG, TCGPlayer, etc...
Umm...I worked in retail. The best way that Wotc could help the retailers (brick and mortar), rather then the secondary market would be to increase the mspr of the product and to give the retailer a higher discount on that product. That would make things simple and less would feel cheated by the whole retailers pricing product above msrp. Wizards is a hellish company to deal with, due to their standards. I'm really surprised that they haven't cracked down on that behavior. Some of their Wizards Play Network notices even seem to encourage it (yes, FTV I'm looking at you). This is just a bizarre practice almost just meant to annoy the customer base and the virtuous few.
btw the Pro Tour Collector Set's msrp was $125. Big difference, those wern't tournament legal and that was for 8 decks.
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Viva la revolution against raising MSRP.
Casual Players: We are the 99%. Buy local or go home.
Anyone else hoping for OVERSIZED Foil of Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Wait... we're just complaining here. my bad.
Doe's everyone actually think Wizards wouldn't in fact print a product they knew they could move X numbers of in larger quantities?? As if they intentionally just wanna upset people as part of thier business model.
Seriously... This product is selling high due to specualation of limited run eternal based cards.
Would it be bad if recruiter, imiperial seal and mana drain were in this? Or would you be more upset you missed out on high end p3k cards and sweet vintage counterspell. ONly the recrutier is legacy based? Lets be honest the Eternal/Legacy portion is what's making people upset. If a FoW is printed or other staples ... hmmmmm.
(also Recruiter is needed to the commander format as it's amzing and red only has a handful of really good commander cards. Recruiter is up at the top)
What are you gonna do when the set it's full of Greater Goods and Tooth and nail? Commander Staples. Also, if that's not the Case i'm sure Wizards has a reason for the limited Run. MANY REASONS. Either it will have LEGACY awesomeness that they didn't ' want to flood the market with and also be loaded with stuff for the Commanders.
OR REASON XYZ... DO YOU REALLLLLLLY CARE? REALLY? If I didn't get mine it would be the same ole' hmm ok. I'm used to not getting anything! Not judge, fnm, players rewards.
I'm tired of the complaints and everyones 2 cents. (even mine)
I wish I could be level x Judge, or had time to make it to FNMs or previously been in players rewards! ... As with many things availablity with your time you can get what you want. It took me 10 minutes of my day to call my fav LGS and they sold me two. One for me and one for my buddy.. already paid! and less than MSRP! ... best shop owner I know!!! Are many of you even trying to get one? or figure it's impossible? with that being said...
how many want this product at MSRP without sweeing the going prices on
ebay?
only Azuka oversized, sylvan library and mineoplasm foils spoiled?
Those paying $200.00+ it's easier to get it at that price then fight for it and they have disposable income obvisously.
would anyone not looking for quick buck want this product with what's been spoiled? Well... would any of the acused complainers want this for mrsp given what's spoiled? if so... OK. be mad and try to get one! If not wait for the singles cause they will be WAY LESS THAN Regular Foil counterparts. (See High market FTV:REalms)
in my area stuff sits around!.. he had a FTV Realms sitting there for a week for $50.00! ( I already bought a couple)
I was even top of list at two others shops that were waiting to see if/when they'd get em. I've since removed my name.
Everyone should just stop! it's ridiculous and I feel less interested in Magic now having to read all this banter over and over when I just want to see peoples expectations of COMMANDER STAPLES.. everyone is so worried for.. nothing.
I hope they do print BOMBS AND LEGACY STAPLES just to further blow peoples minds! but ya know what ... as an avid commander player...
i'm shelling out my money in hopes that i'll get
Greater Good
Duplicant
tooth and nail
ect... cards that are Cheap unfoil and OUTRAGEIOUS FOILEd in their respected base sets.
THIS WOULDN'T BE THE END OF ALL things..
I will THANK WIZARDS for putting out this product and saving me $$$
THANK YOU WIZARDS (and Habro.. I love my Transformers collection!)
for not having to pay $50.00 Foil Greater goods out of 9th edition! or something/anything equal.
THANK YOU WIZARDS and Job well done on releasing to the public Foil commander staples and some never foiled before.
for the awesome command dice... the oversized foils (hoping for Xiahou Dun, the One) ... ect ect.
Umm...I worked in retail. The best way that Wotc could help the retailers (brick and mortar), rather then the secondary market would be to increase the mspr of the product and to give the retailer a higher discount on that product. That would make things simple and less would feel cheated by the whole retailers pricing product above msrp. Wizards is a hellish company to deal with, due to their standards. I'm really surprised that they haven't cracked down on that behavior. Some of their Wizards Play Network notices even seem to encourage it (yes, FTV I'm looking at you). This is just a bizarre practice almost just meant to annoy the customer base and the virtuous few.
btw the Pro Tour Collector Set's msrp was $125. Big difference, those wern't tournament legal and that was for 8 decks.
Wizards keeps the msrp lower so that the distributors don't go crazy on marking things like this and FTV up on the stores and so that if the stores want to mark it up all the profit will go to them. If there wasn't an msrp on FTV products distributors would charge stores an arm and a leg, which in turn means the store would require you to give up your first born. Having a higher msrp does the exact opposite of what you think it does.
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Look at my name...what did you expect?
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
Wizards keeps the msrp lower so that the distributors don't go crazy on marking things like this and FTV up on the stores and so that if the stores want to mark it up all the profit will go to them. If there wasn't an msrp on FTV products distributors would charge stores an arm and a leg, which in turn means the store would require you to give up your first born. Having a higher msrp does the exact opposite of what you think it does.
Ok, I worked in the book industry. Publishers sold to distributors at I can only imagine the discount. We got 45% off msrp from the distributor. we sold at msrp. everyone was happy. This is the only product that I know of that the producer almost encourages the retailer to sell at above msrp. I don't remember this being done frequently when I started, It seams to be a new thing from my perspective. wotc is also pretty selective about who does and does not qualify as a TO or retailer. We were a brick a mortar store and I was told dealing with wotc was not worth the trouble. I tried opening my own store and needed pricing info for my business plain, wizards writ me off. I now work for a library and I gave up on trying to organize tournaments. They are extremely protective of there product, as they should be. I'm sure they have their reasons for the msrp stuff. It just seems to help the bigger stores then the locals who may feel a loyalty to their customers to only charge msrp. It doesn't make a fair playing field for players or shops.
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Viva la revolution against raising MSRP.
Casual Players: We are the 99%. Buy local or go home.
Ok, I worked in the book industry. Publishers sold to distributors at I can only imagine the discount. We got 45% off msrp from the distributor. we sold at msrp. everyone was happy. This is the only product that I know of that the producer almost encourages the retailer to sell at above msrp. I don't remember this being done frequently when I started, It seams to be a new thing from my perspective. wotc is also pretty selective about who does and does not qualify as a TO or retailer. We were a brick a mortar store and I was told dealing with wotc was not worth the trouble. I tried opening my own store and needed pricing info for my business plain, wizards writ me off. I now work for a library and I gave up on trying to organize tournaments. They are extremely protective of there product, as they should be. I'm sure they have their reasons for the msrp stuff. It just seems to help the bigger stores then the locals who may feel a loyalty to their customers to only charge msrp. It doesn't make a fair playing field for players or shops.
Generally Wizards treats the FTV products as a thank-you to the b&m stores, if they want to sell them at msrp they are more than welcome to, but Wizards won't chastise them for selling higher.
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Look at my name...what did you expect?
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
Well I preordered it hoping it'll be loaded with general goodstuff that I can use for my Jor Kadeen and Skeleton Ship decks. If there's cards in there (which there are bound to be) that I don't want or need to use then I'll just trade them to my friends. I may lose out a bit on money but that's bound to happen sometimes.
Anyone else hoping for OVERSIZED Foil of Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Wait... we're just complaining here. my bad.
Doe's everyone actually think Wizards wouldn't in fact print a product they knew they could move X numbers of in larger quantities?? As if they intentionally just wanna upset people as part of thier business model.
The intentionally made this as limited as possible to "test the market for ultra limited products in the future." This much has been said about it from Twitter.
I'm not complaining about the product. I love the product. I also don't mind products to be limited that too, I don't mind. What I don't like and what really bothers me about this release, is that it is SO limited that it will be very difficult to walk into a store and get this product. I don't know why, as WoTC, you would want a product that is like that.
I've already mentioned that I can't find a copy of this in "the main LGS" s I go to around here. (There are about 4 LGS in a 70 mile radius of here and all of them are either going to shop owners/employees or they are putting them on ebay). My gripe isn't the fact that it is limited or expensive (something that people on here are arguing) I also don't want anything "for free". What I do want is a cool foil product that you can walk into the store on opening day (or weekend) and buy. Unfortunately for me, that won't be the case with this product and that is why it sucks for me.
Maybe I don't understand the economics of it, but I still don't think 2/4 a store scratches even 1% of the player base willing to pay/want something like this. But apparently that is "good enough".
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
The better the cards, the louder the complaining, plain and simple. Most people aren't fortunate enough to live in a town like yours where the player base is very casual, very uninformed, or some combination thereof, and haven't been able to acquire one at MSRP since the distribution numbers were announced. There is, without question, more demand for this product than Wizards is willing to print.
I agree with you that the discussion here has gone downhill more or less since the low shipment numbers were confirmed, but at the same time I can't blame people for resenting the product; it's understandably perceived as a middle finger to most of the EDH community.
Why do they include oversized cards with anything anymore? They're so useless =/
Nearly useless for sure. I'd love a graveborn-art Crosis, though. There is a very real number of people that use jumbo-sized commanders as stand-ins for games, especially if you don't cast your commander often, or he rarely gets tucked.
Though I won't deny I own way more oversized cards than I have commanders. They're certainly not much of a selling point, but I like having them.
Nearly useless for sure. I'd love a graveborn-art Crosis, though. There is a very real number of people that use jumbo-sized commanders as stand-ins for games, especially if you don't cast your commander often, or he rarely gets tucked.
Though I won't deny I own way more oversized cards than I have commanders. They're certainly not much of a selling point, but I like having them.
This I can support. The Graveborn printing came out so dark that you could barely make out the details, which was such a shame given Rahn's fantastic redux.
Oversized Xiaohou Dun, on the other hand, would be such a troll.
Oversized Foil Sliver Queen? How do oversized cards work with the reserved list?
IIRC since you can't actually play with oversized cards(in tournaments) they are not subject to the reserved list. So a foil oversized sliver queen is something they could do.
IIRC since you can't actually play with oversized cards(in tournaments) they are not subject to the reserved list. So a foil oversized sliver queen is something they could do.
This I can support. The Graveborn printing came out so dark that you could barely make out the details, which was such a shame given Rahn's fantastic redux.
I didn't exactly notice. I guess, even dark, the overall result is impressive enough that I like it. Crosis EDH deck is a work in progress of mine.
IIRC since you can't actually play with oversized cards(in tournaments) they are not subject to the reserved list. So a foil oversized sliver queen is something they could do.
By this logic, is there any reason they couldn't print reserved cards with say, a blue border, and state they're banned in legacy / modern / vintage, but legal in commander?
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WU Angel Control UW UR Counter Burn RU UB Faeries BU GW Mirari's Wake Monsters WG GWU Block Bant UWG BG Zombie Control GB WU Angel Factory UW RBU Resurrected Dragons UBR GBW Sliver Vindication WBG - In the works RW Girlfriend's Balefire Burn WR
By this logic, is there any reason they couldn't print reserved cards with say, a blue border, and state they're banned in legacy / modern / vintage, but legal in commander?
Seems unlikely given opinions Maro's voiced on his tumblr. Something to the tune of 'don't make yourself rules just so you can make exceptions to them,' and that he would regard making new products similar to the old collector's edition 'not in the spirit of having the reserved list.'
So, maybe? But seriously, don't hope for it, and don't hold your breath. I'm pretty sure they flat-out do not want to.
Assuming that this product actually contains some real staples besides Sylvan Library, $75 is a perfectly reasonable price in my opinion. Heck, depending on the content all the way up to $100 wouldn't be that bad (assuming nothing crazy-expensive is in there, I'm thinking more of cards that are normally between $10-$20).
And it definitely doesn't look that unreasonable when you see how many players were willing to buy all 5 of the Commander decks. I guess my real problem here is how insanely limited this run is, at least with the previous FTV stuff I felt that if I really really wanted to, I could just show up and get in line crazy early, with this though...
I've pretty much lost hope for 75$ at this point. If you go looking, the few pre-orders you still see being taken online are going for several orders of magnitude over that MSRP. The price gouging is something that's already happening, right now. I know the few local shops where I live are all well-enough aware of the online market that they will sell at incredibly luxurious prices - and still sell out.
A gold-bordered reprint of staples would be nice. "Spirit of the reserved list". What a load of BS.
I have been saying this for so freaking long. I mean, the other option is proxies counterfeits, but there's something lame IMHO about not actually owning the card but using it. I've used gold-bordered cards in my EDH decks before, especially if it's a card I only own one copy of the real one but it's awesome, like Gaea's Cradle or Academy Rector.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
EDIT: Robert, you win so many cookies.
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I know several dozen commander players at my LGS that I run/own the magic singles collection for, that would disagree with you. While some are certainly dissapointed at not being able to get the whole box set for a reasonable price (reasonable to them at least), and Ill fully admit to being rather surprised to see these selling consistently for $250+ on ebay in pre-sales, there are a ton more peoplle that are happy at the idea of being able to grab the one or two singles they might want from it without having to pay an arm and a leg to get it. This isnt going to be perfect for everyone, and its going to make some people unhappy because of how limited it is, but in the end, I think that it will still manage to make a lot of people happy, one way or another.
I have 14 Sylvan Library. It's an uncommon. It's a valuable card, but it's not like it's hard to find.
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
Howso? At least at our shop, Im buying the arsenal's off the owner at a fair markup so I can break them all open and use for singles sales for our customers. Not everywhere is going to do that obviously, some will sell at msrp, some will sell at small/medium/large markup. The singles will be available on the secondary market for whatever the buyers are willing to pay for them.
That announcement did say limited print run. The San Diego Comic-Con announcement sounded more for the common player. Either way no one...I mean no one expected it to be so much rarer than FTV.
You still missed the mark here. Part of the "cultivation" process is to also keep the brick and mortar storefronts going, and this is another one of those products that "throws them a bone" during the holiday season. The simple fact that this product will be able to sell for more than MSRP shows the store owners that if they wanted/needed to, they could make a few more dollars off these. Much like the From the Vault series, these small print run items help stimulate sales for small businesses.
Also, I'm 99.99% sure that if a player wants any card from this box set as bad as they are claiming, there will be more than enough for sale online via SCG, TCGPlayer, etc...
Umm...I worked in retail. The best way that Wotc could help the retailers (brick and mortar), rather then the secondary market would be to increase the mspr of the product and to give the retailer a higher discount on that product. That would make things simple and less would feel cheated by the whole retailers pricing product above msrp. Wizards is a hellish company to deal with, due to their standards. I'm really surprised that they haven't cracked down on that behavior. Some of their Wizards Play Network notices even seem to encourage it (yes, FTV I'm looking at you). This is just a bizarre practice almost just meant to annoy the customer base and the virtuous few.
btw the Pro Tour Collector Set's msrp was $125. Big difference, those wern't tournament legal and that was for 8 decks.
Wait... we're just complaining here. my bad.
Doe's everyone actually think Wizards wouldn't in fact print a product they knew they could move X numbers of in larger quantities?? As if they intentionally just wanna upset people as part of thier business model.
Seriously... This product is selling high due to specualation of limited run eternal based cards.
Would it be bad if recruiter, imiperial seal and mana drain were in this? Or would you be more upset you missed out on high end p3k cards and sweet vintage counterspell. ONly the recrutier is legacy based? Lets be honest the Eternal/Legacy portion is what's making people upset. If a FoW is printed or other staples ... hmmmmm.
(also Recruiter is needed to the commander format as it's amzing and red only has a handful of really good commander cards. Recruiter is up at the top)
What are you gonna do when the set it's full of Greater Goods and Tooth and nail? Commander Staples. Also, if that's not the Case i'm sure Wizards has a reason for the limited Run. MANY REASONS. Either it will have LEGACY awesomeness that they didn't ' want to flood the market with and also be loaded with stuff for the Commanders.
OR REASON XYZ... DO YOU REALLLLLLLY CARE? REALLY? If I didn't get mine it would be the same ole' hmm ok. I'm used to not getting anything! Not judge, fnm, players rewards.
I'm tired of the complaints and everyones 2 cents. (even mine)
I wish I could be level x Judge, or had time to make it to FNMs or previously been in players rewards! ... As with many things availablity with your time you can get what you want. It took me 10 minutes of my day to call my fav LGS and they sold me two. One for me and one for my buddy.. already paid! and less than MSRP! ... best shop owner I know!!! Are many of you even trying to get one? or figure it's impossible? with that being said...
how many want this product at MSRP without sweeing the going prices on
ebay?
only Azuka oversized, sylvan library and mineoplasm foils spoiled?
Those paying $200.00+ it's easier to get it at that price then fight for it and they have disposable income obvisously.
would anyone not looking for quick buck want this product with what's been spoiled? Well... would any of the acused complainers want this for mrsp given what's spoiled? if so... OK. be mad and try to get one! If not wait for the singles cause they will be WAY LESS THAN Regular Foil counterparts. (See High market FTV:REalms)
in my area stuff sits around!.. he had a FTV Realms sitting there for a week for $50.00! ( I already bought a couple)
I was even top of list at two others shops that were waiting to see if/when they'd get em. I've since removed my name.
Everyone should just stop! it's ridiculous and I feel less interested in Magic now having to read all this banter over and over when I just want to see peoples expectations of COMMANDER STAPLES.. everyone is so worried for.. nothing.
I hope they do print BOMBS AND LEGACY STAPLES just to further blow peoples minds! but ya know what ... as an avid commander player...
i'm shelling out my money in hopes that i'll get
Greater Good
Duplicant
tooth and nail
ect... cards that are Cheap unfoil and OUTRAGEIOUS FOILEd in their respected base sets.
THIS WOULDN'T BE THE END OF ALL things..
I will THANK WIZARDS for putting out this product and saving me $$$
THANK YOU WIZARDS (and Habro.. I love my Transformers collection!)
for not having to pay $50.00 Foil Greater goods out of 9th edition! or something/anything equal.
THANK YOU WIZARDS and Job well done on releasing to the public Foil commander staples and some never foiled before.
for the awesome command dice... the oversized foils (hoping for Xiahou Dun, the One) ... ect ect.
EDH/Commander: Karn silver golem (foiled), Narset combo, Maelstrom Wanderer random goodies, Nekusar grixis draw stuff, freyalise, Gissa Zombies!, marchesa obliterate,
Prosh just wins!,
--- Will WOTC just visit Cybertron already! ----
Wizards keeps the msrp lower so that the distributors don't go crazy on marking things like this and FTV up on the stores and so that if the stores want to mark it up all the profit will go to them. If there wasn't an msrp on FTV products distributors would charge stores an arm and a leg, which in turn means the store would require you to give up your first born. Having a higher msrp does the exact opposite of what you think it does.
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
Ok, I worked in the book industry. Publishers sold to distributors at I can only imagine the discount. We got 45% off msrp from the distributor. we sold at msrp. everyone was happy. This is the only product that I know of that the producer almost encourages the retailer to sell at above msrp. I don't remember this being done frequently when I started, It seams to be a new thing from my perspective. wotc is also pretty selective about who does and does not qualify as a TO or retailer. We were a brick a mortar store and I was told dealing with wotc was not worth the trouble. I tried opening my own store and needed pricing info for my business plain, wizards writ me off. I now work for a library and I gave up on trying to organize tournaments. They are extremely protective of there product, as they should be. I'm sure they have their reasons for the msrp stuff. It just seems to help the bigger stores then the locals who may feel a loyalty to their customers to only charge msrp. It doesn't make a fair playing field for players or shops.
Generally Wizards treats the FTV products as a thank-you to the b&m stores, if they want to sell them at msrp they are more than welcome to, but Wizards won't chastise them for selling higher.
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
[Primer] - Jor Kadeen, Boros Legionnaire
WUBRGSliver Legion, Slynergistic Slivertastic BeatdownWUBRG
Here are some of the EDH decks I have to deal with...
[Primer] WUBDromar, the Banisher Esper StaxWUB
The intentionally made this as limited as possible to "test the market for ultra limited products in the future." This much has been said about it from Twitter.
I'm not complaining about the product. I love the product. I also don't mind products to be limited that too, I don't mind. What I don't like and what really bothers me about this release, is that it is SO limited that it will be very difficult to walk into a store and get this product. I don't know why, as WoTC, you would want a product that is like that.
I've already mentioned that I can't find a copy of this in "the main LGS" s I go to around here. (There are about 4 LGS in a 70 mile radius of here and all of them are either going to shop owners/employees or they are putting them on ebay). My gripe isn't the fact that it is limited or expensive (something that people on here are arguing) I also don't want anything "for free". What I do want is a cool foil product that you can walk into the store on opening day (or weekend) and buy. Unfortunately for me, that won't be the case with this product and that is why it sucks for me.
Maybe I don't understand the economics of it, but I still don't think 2/4 a store scratches even 1% of the player base willing to pay/want something like this. But apparently that is "good enough".
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The better the cards, the louder the complaining, plain and simple. Most people aren't fortunate enough to live in a town like yours where the player base is very casual, very uninformed, or some combination thereof, and haven't been able to acquire one at MSRP since the distribution numbers were announced. There is, without question, more demand for this product than Wizards is willing to print.
I agree with you that the discussion here has gone downhill more or less since the low shipment numbers were confirmed, but at the same time I can't blame people for resenting the product; it's understandably perceived as a middle finger to most of the EDH community.
meat's Trade Corner
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Nearly useless for sure. I'd love a graveborn-art Crosis, though. There is a very real number of people that use jumbo-sized commanders as stand-ins for games, especially if you don't cast your commander often, or he rarely gets tucked.
Though I won't deny I own way more oversized cards than I have commanders. They're certainly not much of a selling point, but I like having them.
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This I can support. The Graveborn printing came out so dark that you could barely make out the details, which was such a shame given Rahn's fantastic redux.
Oversized Xiaohou Dun, on the other hand, would be such a troll.
meat's Trade Corner
IIRC since you can't actually play with oversized cards(in tournaments) they are not subject to the reserved list. So a foil oversized sliver queen is something they could do.
Yeah, that's right.
I didn't exactly notice. I guess, even dark, the overall result is impressive enough that I like it. Crosis EDH deck is a work in progress of mine.
By this logic, is there any reason they couldn't print reserved cards with say, a blue border, and state they're banned in legacy / modern / vintage, but legal in commander?
UR Counter Burn RU
UB Faeries BU
GW Mirari's Wake Monsters WG
GWU Block Bant UWG
BG Zombie Control GB
WU Angel Factory UW
RBU Resurrected Dragons UBR
GBW Sliver Vindication WBG - In the works
RW Girlfriend's Balefire Burn WR
Seems unlikely given opinions Maro's voiced on his tumblr. Something to the tune of 'don't make yourself rules just so you can make exceptions to them,' and that he would regard making new products similar to the old collector's edition 'not in the spirit of having the reserved list.'
So, maybe? But seriously, don't hope for it, and don't hold your breath. I'm pretty sure they flat-out do not want to.
I've pretty much lost hope for 75$ at this point. If you go looking, the few pre-orders you still see being taken online are going for several orders of magnitude over that MSRP. The price gouging is something that's already happening, right now. I know the few local shops where I live are all well-enough aware of the online market that they will sell at incredibly luxurious prices - and still sell out.
A gold-bordered reprint of staples would be nice. "Spirit of the reserved list". What a load of BS.
Heh, sigging that for truth,
On Topic, I'd expect we might get Foil Oversized Legendary creatures with new art that haven't been alt arted before, and in modern border.
What are the chances Demonic Tutor will be in here?
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I have been saying this for so freaking long. I mean, the other option is
proxiescounterfeits, but there's something lame IMHO about not actually owning the card but using it. I've used gold-bordered cards in my EDH decks before, especially if it's a card I only own one copy of the real one but it's awesome, like Gaea's Cradle or Academy Rector.Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm