The only incredibly infuriating thing is dragonlair spider being in here along with Vela. They both suck terribly, especially the spider. We didn't need 3 Cards from the most recent planechase product, it's simply a waste of space.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
Only thing I see why they put Dragonlair would be due to some Riku action or anything with Devour and Vela with Infinite Reflection or Rite of Replication for some near instant win conditions.
To counter all the Negative Nancys, I frankly think it's about perfect. It's a wide variety of cards that will see play in all kinds of decks, and the never-before-foil generals from the Commander precons and PC2 are some of the most popular in the format.
While I'm not particularly pleased with the limited availability... c'est la vie.
That's my opinion too. It's a fairly well designed FTV style product, with even less distribution than FTV.
That's simply miserable.
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Be they worthy or just plain riff-raff, my warhead shall punish all without distinction. -Rip Van Winkle
"We gave you 120 sleeves because we got your back"
Who in the sam hell is he talking to? I cannot obtain this product. He doesn't have my back. I think he should go work on his board game in permanent exile. Gahhh. This is like that time my parents told me I was their second-to-last favorite child.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
The only incredibly infuriating thing is dragonlair spider being in here along with Vela. They both suck terribly, especially the spider. We didn't need 3 Cards from the most recent planechase product, it's simply a waste of space.
I have a vela deck and i appreciate the foil they're making.
different folks, different strokes, i guess?
If you dont want it, dont buy it. (which has been teh trend in this thread for 250+ pages.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
But what about those of us that wanted to want it but instead got an incredibly lackluster and half-assed product?
Don't buy it, save your money to buy 20 Commander decks next year. Not every product will make everyone happy. This is a fact of life. Wizards has a lot more to take into consideration than to make every product look exciting for Spikes.
Damn, I was considering getting it for Edric, but they had to put in Mirari's Wake. Now I absolutely must have it! I hope enough get released in New Zealand...
I have a vela deck and i appreciate the foil they're making.
different folks, different strokes, i guess?
If you dont want it, dont buy it. (which has been teh trend in this thread for 250+ pages.
I think the issue is a lot more the fact that there are people who wanting it who cannot buy it more than the fact that there are people who don't want it.
Anyway, my review of the product now that it's mostly spoiled, I think it turned out a LOT better than it could have. I already knew I wasn't in the audience for this product when I heard the MSRP, but regardless of that knowledge, I couldn't help but think WotC made a HUGE misstep with the obscenely limited availability of this product. Now? I think they made a very good product for that limitedness; nothing that absolutely everyone wants, mostly things which have an audience here and there (I could be very wrong, but that's the way I see it), so collectors get their collective-ness and players should be able to find what singles they want without TOO much hassle. That said, I still do not like how limited this was, and I think that is where the popular opinion lies. It was a good experiment, and one which WotC could be stronger for making, but I personally hope that no future product is nearly this limited. However, as I said before, if any product "works" with this kind of limitedness, it's this one.
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
Sweet! Pay $75, get a bunch of reasonable to cool foils, some silly tokens, an awesome life counter, and some stupid oversized cards and a loyal retainers to sell in order to recoup. Loving it.
This was a half assed last minute product to begin with.
True...true. It shows. Card selection was weeeeaaaaaaak.
I also love this line on the page on the daily mtg:
"Style really counts here—our goal is for the player equipped with a Commander's Arsenal to be the coolest player at the table."
Riiiiiight, suuuuuure. That or the one with the most money to blow...
Oooh or this gem: "The oversized premium versions of the Commander boxes' legendary creatures were pretty popular."
No, no they weren't, aren't, never will be. You keep telling yourself that, trying to convince yourselves and everyone that they were a good idea, they just plain weren't.
And of course the paper insert that gives great details on the history of the cards and chara-oh..it's just people from Wizards talking about their decks *yawn* nevermind.
Oooh or this gem: "The oversized premium versions of the Commander boxes' legendary creatures were pretty popular."
No, no they weren't, aren't, never will be. You keep telling yourself that, trying to convince yourselves and everyone that they were a good idea, they just plain weren't.
I'm sure you have much better information than a multinational company with a vested interest in determining exactly how popular their products are.
Oooh or this gem: "The oversized premium versions of the Commander boxes' legendary creatures were pretty popular."
No, no they weren't, aren't, never will be. You keep telling yourself that, trying to convince yourselves and everyone that they were a good idea, they just plain weren't.
Just to point it out since MaRo answered this on his tumblr. His response was something along the lines of "if they were not popular, do you think we would continue printing oversized cards?" Once again, you and the people you play with may not like, but their research shows that they are popular enough with the entire magic populace to continue to make them.
EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
LOL, Wow, and WTH are three of the acronyms that first jumped to mind when I saw the full extend of the disdain wizards has for it's player-base. I was expecting it to be bad after the first day of spoilers, but not THAT bad. There are 2, TWO cards in this set anyone really cares about play wise. Scroll Rack, and Sylvan Library. The P3K cards, while nice, and I'm sure people think they are awesome, are only good because their actual print cards are expensive. This print run will not help that. The fact that both of them are lackluster only adds to the feeling like you finally got that ultra rare bottle of Crystal Pepsi only to realize that Crystal Pepsi is terrible.
Seriously. Cards that recently appeared in commander and Planechase are the cards they felt were the things most Commander players really wanted? Really? REALLY? IF people want those cards they can get them. Shoehorning them into this product feels about as forced as Al Bundy trying to get a size 14 into a size 5. In the end I'm glad this was so short-printed that only the most insane of us will get a set. The sad thign is the only thing in this entire pack that was pretty cool was the life counter. It's cool in that, man that would be neat to have, sort of way. But not so neat that I'll pay $75 to get it...
Wizards. Really... You could have just not put anything out this year in that Premium Deck slot, we're all busy buying RTR cards anyhow. This is truly for people that hate having money. Can't wait to see what is in that Gift-pack for Christmas, or Modern Masters now.
True...true. It shows. Card selection was weeeeaaaaaaak.
I also love this line on the page on the daily mtg:
"Style really counts here—our goal is for the player equipped with a Commander's Arsenal to be the coolest player at the table."
Riiiiiight, suuuuuure. That or the one with the most money to blow...
Oooh or this gem: "The oversized premium versions of the Commander boxes' legendary creatures were pretty popular."
No, no they weren't, aren't, never will be. You keep telling yourself that, trying to convince yourselves and everyone that they were a good idea, they just plain weren't.
And of course the paper insert that gives great details on the history of the cards and chara-oh..it's just people from Wizards talking about their decks *yawn* nevermind.
Not everything is made for you. I love the oversized cards. Any playgroup I've showed up with the oversized cards didn't care that I had a proxy general and the oversized card.
Not everything is made for ultra-spike tournament players. This product is not for them.
Hopefully, I finagled my way to get one of these on the cheap. Scroll Rack is my favorite card of all time. I also like anytime they print P3K cards in foil or modern frame. Rhystic Study, Mind's Eye, Duplicant, and Desertion go into all of my decks that can use them.
All products have an insert telling you about the history of the cards and context from WoTC. They are in every Fat Pack, Duel Deck, and FTV. Those are nothing new.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
I'm sure you have much better information than a multinational company with a vested interest in determining exactly how popular their products are.
Large multinational companies make mistakes all the time. Like constantly. And they only really had one person working on this apparently.
Sure, confirmation bias and all that, but I've still never heard of anyone in real life or on the internet (besides WotC employees) saying that the oversized cards are cool. Yeah, whatever, extra throwins are always welcome, but don't pretend that there is actual demand for them.
EDIT: Wow, and ninjad by the first person in the world to ever say it. Bravo.
I am kind of amazed at 1) how terrible CA ended up, and 2) the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
I think this product is very well designed. It's got a lot of fan favorites, from Scroll Rack to Decree, it's got new generals in foil, and those are fan favorites as well and sure it's got a few niche cards but so does every released product. I guess people complain about those too, but it seems pointless then as well.
As for the oversized generals, I'm with the crowd that doesn't like them, they take up too much space and they're just overly flashy. On the other hand, I know at least 5 players i play with regularly that have oversized generals with them for the decks that they have because they like them, so they're clearly not unpopular.
Here's hoping that the next round of commander products has as varied a card selection as this one.
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-This signature intentionally left blank to increase general intrigue and mystery-
Again, great product. Excellent mix of young and old school, with some serious value with the p3k cards added in the mix. I didn't expect a grand slam of value with every card, that would be a fools hope.
I was surprised to not see the hippo in a big frame, but we got several awesome commanders in the big frame that are more popular everyday type generals. Maybe someday I will get my Scion of the Ur dragon oversized card, but not today.
It never fails to amaze me how high the expectations are regarding new products. There is certainly a cohort of reasonable people out there as well, but the naysayers are so loud and so misguided that it is hard to not get upset by it.
Seriously, if this product is lacking awesomeness, than what was the success that you are measuring it against? What product was more awesome than this? Please refrain from saying some old school set. No old school set holds a candle to anything released in the last half decade. The only reason people like those sets is due to the design mistakes that happened back then.
For what it is worth, If Legends was re released, it would be a huge flop of epic proportions. The ten or so good cards would initially flood the market, reducing all but probably mana drain to five dollar cards. After that boxes would sell on the bay for 45 apiece, like homelands.
Seems like if they had just taken a poll or done some research to see what some of the more popular edh cards were this would have been a lot better, but then people would have been even more upset that this was so limited.
Oh well, a little over two months before we get to see the Gatecrash guild leaders.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/
EDH Decks:
UBRNicol Bolas, Destroyer of Worlds
RGURiku, "Just like everyone else" Deck
:selesnya:Trostani, Photocopier
Lazav, Death by Mill
:orzhov:Vish Kal, Heir to the Throne
That's my opinion too. It's a fairly well designed FTV style product, with even less distribution than FTV.
That's simply miserable.
It's as well thought out as FtV: Legends was.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Who in the sam hell is he talking to? I cannot obtain this product. He doesn't have my back. I think he should go work on his board game in permanent exile. Gahhh. This is like that time my parents told me I was their second-to-last favorite child.
Feel free to tell me yours!
I have a vela deck and i appreciate the foil they're making.
different folks, different strokes, i guess?
If you dont want it, dont buy it. (which has been teh trend in this thread for 250+ pages.
But what about those of us that wanted to want it but instead got an incredibly lackluster and half-assed product?
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
BUGThe MimeoplasmBUG
WUIsperia, Supreme JudgeWU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
This was a half assed last minute product to begin with.
My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/
they even admitted that they had to rush it out...
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig
Legacy
RUBFaithless Dredge
Don't buy it, save your money to buy 20 Commander decks next year. Not every product will make everyone happy. This is a fact of life. Wizards has a lot more to take into consideration than to make every product look exciting for Spikes.
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
I think the issue is a lot more the fact that there are people who wanting it who cannot buy it more than the fact that there are people who don't want it.
Anyway, my review of the product now that it's mostly spoiled, I think it turned out a LOT better than it could have. I already knew I wasn't in the audience for this product when I heard the MSRP, but regardless of that knowledge, I couldn't help but think WotC made a HUGE misstep with the obscenely limited availability of this product. Now? I think they made a very good product for that limitedness; nothing that absolutely everyone wants, mostly things which have an audience here and there (I could be very wrong, but that's the way I see it), so collectors get their collective-ness and players should be able to find what singles they want without TOO much hassle. That said, I still do not like how limited this was, and I think that is where the popular opinion lies. It was a good experiment, and one which WotC could be stronger for making, but I personally hope that no future product is nearly this limited. However, as I said before, if any product "works" with this kind of limitedness, it's this one.
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
---
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
WUB Sharuum, the Hegemon
UGEdric, Spymaster of Trest
True...true. It shows. Card selection was weeeeaaaaaaak.
I also love this line on the page on the daily mtg:
"Style really counts here—our goal is for the player equipped with a Commander's Arsenal to be the coolest player at the table."
Riiiiiight, suuuuuure. That or the one with the most money to blow...
Oooh or this gem: "The oversized premium versions of the Commander boxes' legendary creatures were pretty popular."
No, no they weren't, aren't, never will be. You keep telling yourself that, trying to convince yourselves and everyone that they were a good idea, they just plain weren't.
And of course the paper insert that gives great details on the history of the cards and chara-oh..it's just people from Wizards talking about their decks *yawn* nevermind.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I'm sure you have much better information than a multinational company with a vested interest in determining exactly how popular their products are.
Just to point it out since MaRo answered this on his tumblr. His response was something along the lines of "if they were not popular, do you think we would continue printing oversized cards?" Once again, you and the people you play with may not like, but their research shows that they are popular enough with the entire magic populace to continue to make them.
Seriously. Cards that recently appeared in commander and Planechase are the cards they felt were the things most Commander players really wanted? Really? REALLY? IF people want those cards they can get them. Shoehorning them into this product feels about as forced as Al Bundy trying to get a size 14 into a size 5. In the end I'm glad this was so short-printed that only the most insane of us will get a set. The sad thign is the only thing in this entire pack that was pretty cool was the life counter. It's cool in that, man that would be neat to have, sort of way. But not so neat that I'll pay $75 to get it...
Wizards. Really... You could have just not put anything out this year in that Premium Deck slot, we're all busy buying RTR cards anyhow. This is truly for people that hate having money. Can't wait to see what is in that Gift-pack for Christmas, or Modern Masters now.
Big thanks to Rivenor for the sig!!
Not everything is made for you. I love the oversized cards. Any playgroup I've showed up with the oversized cards didn't care that I had a proxy general and the oversized card.
Not everything is made for ultra-spike tournament players. This product is not for them.
Hopefully, I finagled my way to get one of these on the cheap. Scroll Rack is my favorite card of all time. I also like anytime they print P3K cards in foil or modern frame. Rhystic Study, Mind's Eye, Duplicant, and Desertion go into all of my decks that can use them.
All products have an insert telling you about the history of the cards and context from WoTC. They are in every Fat Pack, Duel Deck, and FTV. Those are nothing new.
Watch Play Read
Twitter
Large multinational companies make mistakes all the time. Like constantly. And they only really had one person working on this apparently.
Sure, confirmation bias and all that, but I've still never heard of anyone in real life or on the internet (besides WotC employees) saying that the oversized cards are cool. Yeah, whatever, extra throwins are always welcome, but don't pretend that there is actual demand for them.
EDIT: Wow, and ninjad by the first person in the world to ever say it. Bravo.
---
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
WUB Sharuum, the Hegemon
UGEdric, Spymaster of Trest
~Lil Kalki
EDIT: Robert, you win so many cookies.
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
As for the oversized generals, I'm with the crowd that doesn't like them, they take up too much space and they're just overly flashy. On the other hand, I know at least 5 players i play with regularly that have oversized generals with them for the decks that they have because they like them, so they're clearly not unpopular.
Here's hoping that the next round of commander products has as varied a card selection as this one.
I was surprised to not see the hippo in a big frame, but we got several awesome commanders in the big frame that are more popular everyday type generals. Maybe someday I will get my Scion of the Ur dragon oversized card, but not today.
It never fails to amaze me how high the expectations are regarding new products. There is certainly a cohort of reasonable people out there as well, but the naysayers are so loud and so misguided that it is hard to not get upset by it.
Seriously, if this product is lacking awesomeness, than what was the success that you are measuring it against? What product was more awesome than this? Please refrain from saying some old school set. No old school set holds a candle to anything released in the last half decade. The only reason people like those sets is due to the design mistakes that happened back then.
For what it is worth, If Legends was re released, it would be a huge flop of epic proportions. The ten or so good cards would initially flood the market, reducing all but probably mana drain to five dollar cards. After that boxes would sell on the bay for 45 apiece, like homelands.
Oh well, a little over two months before we get to see the Gatecrash guild leaders.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master