this limited edition crap is essentially guaranteeing that little to no product will be available outside of draft, where constructed players will be FORCED to rare draft to get the cards they need.
Or you Know buy singles...
\Every pack that goes to a dedicated drafter is another pack unavailable to constructed players, the advertised target of this pack. If draft is your thing, fine and dandy. Stop keeping constructed product out of the hands of constructed players.
Seems like you are more upset at the limited print run then much else, (something that ALSO upsets the drafters I might add, a unlimited print run like a normal set would mean more drafting for us too)
Many 'draft onlys' do one of two things after a draft: stick the card into a box, never to be seen again, or many I know throw them away after they get home, intentionally to spite constructed players.
As a dedicated drafter I find this REALLY hard to belive. like REALLY hard, Most draft only people I know either collect art in binders or sell all the cards back to the shop at a highly reduced rate to help pay for more drafts.
Well, what the hell gives YOU more right to the product than me? I don't play modern, and have little interest in it, but I still want it, and likely wont get it because of forced drafting. Constructed players should have equal access to this product, if not more access, as it is SPECIFICALLY INTENDED for a constructed format.
This is replete with spelling errors due to being on a phone. I will try to correct them.
In conclusion its wizards you have a problem with for the limited print run NOT the drafters who just want an awesome draft...
Remember the hype about the Helvault? The people that had taken the little bit we knew and talked it so around in circles that people were convinced that it would be six foot tall, made of aluminum and holding obscene amounts of value. Yeah. Rembember how that actually turned out?
Some people got obscene amounts of value thanks to foil premium vaults and the rest of us got nothing? Yea...
WTH?! It was advertised as for a DRAFT format which would increase supply for Modern players. THIS JUST IN... when a set is drafted heavily, it creates a bigger supply! OMG, eureka... it's not like that statement has never been used here :rolleyes:.
Uh. Wrong. They explicitly said (in a couple press releases, I believe) that the MSRP is because of the "value" of cards included in the set. Does WotC really care about secondary market prices? No, of course not. But that statement above is completely false and people seriously need to brush up on their reading and critical thinking skills.
They said the MSRP is because of the value, but they did not suggest that the MSRP had a direct correlation to the value. Basically they said "We feel people will buy these packs because they have crazy good **** in them." It does not reflect that they are planning on gimping the set since you ONLY have to pay $6.00 to $7.00 a pack. People should really brush up on their reading and word comprehension skills.
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
I am certain that other users here have asked this, already, but where was it confirmed that City of Brass would be reprinted in this set? I know that Tarmogoyf was confirmed when this set was first announced, but I do not recall where City of Brass was confirmed.
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I am certain that other users here have asked this, already, but where was it confirmed that City of Brass would be reprinted in this set? I know that Tarmogoyf was confirmed when this set was first announced, but I do not recall where City of Brass was confirmed.
Uh. Wrong. They explicitly said (in a couple press releases, I believe) that the MSRP is because of the "value" of cards included in the set. Does WotC really care about secondary market prices? No, of course not. But that statement above is completely false and people seriously need to brush up on their reading and critical thinking skills.
Before bashing my reading and critical thinking skills you might want to reread what they actually said.
Quote from Aaron Forsythe »
Boosters for this set will have a significantly higher MSRP than those from "normal" sets—$6.99 as opposed to $3.99—for a few reasons. First and foremost, the set is packed with the greatest hits from over six years' worth of expansions. The power-level of the cards in these boosters is very high compared to the average, and we didn't want to make every other set we have in the pipeline comparatively unattractive from a price standpoint by charging too little for this one. Second, as I mentioned before, there's a foil in every pack, which is a big departure from our other booster offerings. And third, we hope the price difference keeps the product out of the wrong hands. The set will not be Standard legal—I repeat, the set will not be Standard legal—and we don't want newer players picking these up by mistake thinking they can use them at, say, Friday Night Magic. The higher price should give them pause and make sure that players that know exactly what they're buying are the ones getting them.
In the announcement at PTRTR he used similar terminology. Never once did he mention the value of the cards in the set, only that the supply was low due to fewer copies being printed than current sets. He even avoids the issue of value when he brings up the subject of chronicles in the article, just mentioning that it was the cause of the reserved list and they were being careful not to repeat the mistakes made all those years ago. Now, you can infer that the third and fourth sentence of the quote above signals awareness of and concern for secondary market values, however, you cannot infer that Wizards is using card prices to either alter the content of the set or to set the MSRP of the product.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
I am certain that other users here have asked this, already, but where was it confirmed that City of Brass would be reprinted in this set? I know that Tarmogoyf was confirmed when this set was first announced, but I do not recall where City of Brass was confirmed.
It wasn't "confirmed confirmed" but artwork that is clearly City of Brass was spoiled with the initial announcement and later appears in promotional advertising for MM, so it's clearly in the set. Everyone has reported it and WotC hasn't said, "Hey, wait, that's not necessarily City of Brass."
There are some flaws here. First, Wizards has nothing to do with setting prices in the secondary market. Wizards isn't using the current price of the cards in the set to set the MSRP of the packs or limit the value of the cards in the set. It would in fact be foolish of them to do so since they cannot accurately predict how much the values of those cards will change with the increased number of cards in circulation (or the perception thereof).
Which is why goyf is at mythic, booster are $7 and it is a limited print run?
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Which is why goyf is at mythic, booster are $7 and it is a limited print run?
Goyf is at mythic because they decided to use the normal set rarity distribution and needed mythics. There isn't a better modern legal card to highlight and generate excitement about the set than goyf, so it was a shoe in as a chase mythic. Boosters are $7 because they can; and of course, for the reasons they stated in Aaron Forsythe's article about it. MSRP is kinda irrelevant however because of the limited print run. Many stores are going to be selling this product for more than MSRP. Now they ARE trying not to totally decimate the secondary market ala chronicles, and are using the limited print run as their vehicle for that. Not oversaturating the market is not the same thing as setting the prices for it however, and I am certain that noone at a meeting said "You know what? we can't put Clique in guys, our overall set value is too high..."
I don't think the standard rules for mythics really apply to this set. Personally, I believe that Dark Confidant and Thoughtseize will be mythics in this set. I believe that Tombstalker will be in this set, and that Aether Vial will be a rare.
That's what I believe, I could be wrong, but all things considered, I'm probably not.
I'm going to Vegas for this set, that's all I know.
I don't think the standard rules for mythics really apply to this set. Personally, I believe that Dark Confidant and Thoughtseize will be mythics in this set. I believe that Tombstalker will be in this set, and that Aether Vial will be a rare.
That's what I believe, I could be wrong, but all things considered, I'm probably not.
I'm going to Vegas for this set, that's all I know.
I see why you say that, but thoughtseize at Mythic just doesn't make sense...
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I see why you say that, but thoughtseize at Mythic just doesn't make sense...
Yeah, if anything, thoughtseize would make more sense as an uncommon, especially if it really is possible to draft combo (storm) in this set. That's what I would do personally, but it would tick off a lot of folks, and likely have the exact effect of hurting people's collection that Wizards says they want to avoid. They may be willing to effect a few cards in that way though. As long as the set doesn't completely tank every card that's printed in it, they will have achieved their goal I think.
Using this, lets craft a list of possible mythics.
White
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Blue
Vendilion Clique
Venser, Shaper Savant
Black
Dark Confidant
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Red
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Green
Tarmogoyf (Confirmed)
Doubling Season
Gold
Progenitus
Sliver Legion
Artifact
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Arcbound Ravager
The fact is, there should be a somewhat even dispersal between the colors in mythics, and red has nothing "great" besides Kiki-Jiki. I could see them stuffing both Akromas in here.
Ravager could be Crucible, but Crucible was already reprinted once, so I feel like it is still a 'rare'.
This set is supposed to give Modern a shot in the arm, and they shouldn't pull punches IMO.
Nerf, I agree, Thoughtseize could be uncommon. It would certainly help its insane price out, but I could see it as rare just the same.
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Using this, lets craft a list of possible mythics.
I highly doubt they'd print a one-off Planeswalker. If they print one they'll print an entire cycle; either the Lorwyn ones at Mythic or the Alara ones.
I highly doubt they'd print a one-off Planeswalker. If they print one they'll print an entire cycle; either the Lorwyn ones at Mythic or the Alara ones.
Slots are high real estate.
The lorwyn planeswalkers were reprinted multiple times, they don't need to be in this set at all.
The Shards planeswalkers are not in demand, except for Elspeth. Total waste of slots. They have no reason to adhere to extremely loose cycles in this set. Elspeth stands on her own.
Edit: I realize my statement is silly given I just threw Akromas in there. I could easily see them just saying "Well white gets a planeswalker, so they only get one mythic" and a gold mythic counts towards white's.
Or not really caring where about even color distribution.
Using this, lets craft a list of possible mythics.
White
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Blue
Vendilion Clique
Venser, Shaper Savant
Black
Dark Confidant
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Red
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Green
Tarmogoyf (Confirmed)
Doubling Season
Gold
Progenitus
Sliver Legion
Artifact
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Arcbound Ravager
The fact is, there should be a somewhat even dispersal between the colors in mythics, and red has nothing "great" besides Kiki-Jiki. I could see them stuffing both Akromas in here.
Ravager could be Crucible, but Crucible was already reprinted once, so I feel like it is still a 'rare'.
This set is supposed to give Modern a shot in the arm, and they shouldn't pull punches IMO.
Nerf, I agree, Thoughtseize could be uncommon. It would certainly help its insane price out, but I could see it as rare just the same.
I think some of those probably will fall off- for exactly the reason you said: This product is to give Modern a shot in the arm. Which means I expect a LOT of that high value EDH/Commander popular stuff to take a seat on the bench, unless it happens to be something that is popular in both Modern AND Commander.
Commander is going to keep getting it's own products, so I'd honestly question whether something like Doubling Season would actually be printed in the set at all.
It isn't the fact that it is draftable that is bugging people. The thing bugging people is that the product created and advertised for a CONSTRUCTED FORMAT is being pushed away from constructed players and into the hands of drafters, and this limited edition crap is essentially guaranteeing that little to no product will be available outside of draft, where constructed players will be FORCED to rare draft to get the cards they need. This, of course, turns the constructed players into the big bad guys who will be treated like ****, and likely barred from drafts. The idea that a set needs to have draft specific cards to be drafted is laughable. In draft, you work from a limited card pool. It is utterly irrelevant what is in that pool. Aaron Forscythe said in the release information that this set was supposed to make it easier for people to pick up modern as a format, and decrease barrier of entry. Creating a draft-only environment doesn't do that. Making it so that people interested in modern cannot obtain the cards doesn't do that. Let me tell you something. Every pack that goes to a dedicated drafter is another pack unavailable to constructed players, the advertised target of this pack. If draft is your thing, fine and dandy. Stop keeping constructed product out of the hands of constructed players. Many 'draft onlys' do one of two things after a draft: stick the card into a box, never to be seen again, or many I know throw them away after they get home, intentionally to spite constructed players. Well, what the hell gives YOU more right to the product than me? I don't play modern, and have little interest in it, but I still want it, and likely wont get it because of forced drafting. Constructed players should have equal access to this product, if not more access, as it is SPECIFICALLY INTENDED for a constructed format.
This is replete with spelling errors due to being on a phone. I will try to correct them.
So...you're mad people interested in Modern can't get the product because of drafters hoarding it.
Then you say you want to pick some up despite not being interested in Modern.
Congrats on being *even worse* than the people you're mad it.
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Whenever someone claims to hate blue I automatically assume they're a bad player.
I think some of those probably will fall off- for exactly the reason you said: This product is to give Modern a shot in the arm. Which means I expect a LOT of that high value EDH/Commander popular stuff to take a seat on the bench, unless it happens to be something that is popular in both Modern AND Commander.
Commander is going to keep getting it's own products, so I'd honestly question whether something like Doubling Season would actually be printed in the set at all.
It is super tough to reprint a 30 dollar card in a prepackaged product though. That is why Doubling Season hasn't been reprinted anywhere yet.
It is one mythic slot (in a color with not many good choices for mythics), and it makes more sense to use a mythic on a commander card than a 'format staple' which would be at rare instead.
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In conclusion its wizards you have a problem with for the limited print run NOT the drafters who just want an awesome draft...
Some people got obscene amounts of value thanks to foil premium vaults and the rest of us got nothing? Yea...
They said the MSRP is because of the value, but they did not suggest that the MSRP had a direct correlation to the value. Basically they said "We feel people will buy these packs because they have crazy good **** in them." It does not reflect that they are planning on gimping the set since you ONLY have to pay $6.00 to $7.00 a pack. People should really brush up on their reading and word comprehension skills.
Also Manamorphose is almost a shoe in.
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/wocmtgmodbb.html
Probably either Grapeshot or Empty the warrens.
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I hate the reserved list.
Mythic rares are fine.
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“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
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http://cartamagicastore.com/image/cache/data/magic/modern-masters/modern-masters-city-of-brass-art-500x500.jpg
^ this pic can be found in place of the tips&tricks card in your DGM booster pack that also advertises Modern Masters.
Before bashing my reading and critical thinking skills you might want to reread what they actually said.
source: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218
In the announcement at PTRTR he used similar terminology. Never once did he mention the value of the cards in the set, only that the supply was low due to fewer copies being printed than current sets. He even avoids the issue of value when he brings up the subject of chronicles in the article, just mentioning that it was the cause of the reserved list and they were being careful not to repeat the mistakes made all those years ago. Now, you can infer that the third and fourth sentence of the quote above signals awareness of and concern for secondary market values, however, you cannot infer that Wizards is using card prices to either alter the content of the set or to set the MSRP of the product.
original announment at PTRTR here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg%2Fdaily%2Feventcoverage%2Fptrtr12%2Fvideo17
Yeah, same thing happened in the Commander's Arsenal thread. God that was a mess.
My current decks!
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MM 2014: Commander's Arsenal Mk.II.
The Oncoming Storm of rage and disappoint fills me with anticipation. This is the sort of thing the internet was invented by the military for.
It wasn't "confirmed confirmed" but artwork that is clearly City of Brass was spoiled with the initial announcement and later appears in promotional advertising for MM, so it's clearly in the set. Everyone has reported it and WotC hasn't said, "Hey, wait, that's not necessarily City of Brass."
Which is why goyf is at mythic, booster are $7 and it is a limited print run?
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Goyf is at mythic because they decided to use the normal set rarity distribution and needed mythics. There isn't a better modern legal card to highlight and generate excitement about the set than goyf, so it was a shoe in as a chase mythic. Boosters are $7 because they can; and of course, for the reasons they stated in Aaron Forsythe's article about it. MSRP is kinda irrelevant however because of the limited print run. Many stores are going to be selling this product for more than MSRP. Now they ARE trying not to totally decimate the secondary market ala chronicles, and are using the limited print run as their vehicle for that. Not oversaturating the market is not the same thing as setting the prices for it however, and I am certain that noone at a meeting said "You know what? we can't put Clique in guys, our overall set value is too high..."
That's what I believe, I could be wrong, but all things considered, I'm probably not.
I'm going to Vegas for this set, that's all I know.
I see why you say that, but thoughtseize at Mythic just doesn't make sense...
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
nothing about this set makes sense..
My multiplayer powered cube
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my EDH deckbox:
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elesh norn statue:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=413011
tamiyo figure/bust:
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my etsy dark souls statues page:
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Yeah, if anything, thoughtseize would make more sense as an uncommon, especially if it really is possible to draft combo (storm) in this set. That's what I would do personally, but it would tick off a lot of folks, and likely have the exact effect of hurting people's collection that Wizards says they want to avoid. They may be willing to effect a few cards in that way though. As long as the set doesn't completely tank every card that's printed in it, they will have achieved their goal I think.
http://ark42.com/mtg/pricevisualizer.php?s=Eighth+Edition&a=1
Using this, lets craft a list of possible mythics.
White
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Blue
Vendilion Clique
Venser, Shaper Savant
Black
Dark Confidant
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Red
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Green
Tarmogoyf (Confirmed)
Doubling Season
Gold
Progenitus
Sliver Legion
Artifact
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Arcbound Ravager
The fact is, there should be a somewhat even dispersal between the colors in mythics, and red has nothing "great" besides Kiki-Jiki. I could see them stuffing both Akromas in here.
Ravager could be Crucible, but Crucible was already reprinted once, so I feel like it is still a 'rare'.
This set is supposed to give Modern a shot in the arm, and they shouldn't pull punches IMO.
Nerf, I agree, Thoughtseize could be uncommon. It would certainly help its insane price out, but I could see it as rare just the same.
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I highly doubt they'd print a one-off Planeswalker. If they print one they'll print an entire cycle; either the Lorwyn ones at Mythic or the Alara ones.
Slots are high real estate.
The lorwyn planeswalkers were reprinted multiple times, they don't need to be in this set at all.
The Shards planeswalkers are not in demand, except for Elspeth. Total waste of slots. They have no reason to adhere to extremely loose cycles in this set. Elspeth stands on her own.
Edit: I realize my statement is silly given I just threw Akromas in there. I could easily see them just saying "Well white gets a planeswalker, so they only get one mythic" and a gold mythic counts towards white's.
Or not really caring where about even color distribution.
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I think some of those probably will fall off- for exactly the reason you said: This product is to give Modern a shot in the arm. Which means I expect a LOT of that high value EDH/Commander popular stuff to take a seat on the bench, unless it happens to be something that is popular in both Modern AND Commander.
Commander is going to keep getting it's own products, so I'd honestly question whether something like Doubling Season would actually be printed in the set at all.
So...you're mad people interested in Modern can't get the product because of drafters hoarding it.
Then you say you want to pick some up despite not being interested in Modern.
Congrats on being *even worse* than the people you're mad it.
It is super tough to reprint a 30 dollar card in a prepackaged product though. That is why Doubling Season hasn't been reprinted anywhere yet.
It is one mythic slot (in a color with not many good choices for mythics), and it makes more sense to use a mythic on a commander card than a 'format staple' which would be at rare instead.
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