Colfenor's Plans would only be used in a blue / black deck I imagine due to needing a lot of bounce to make it work, plus you can increase the pool of removed cards to chose a spell from by continuosly bouncing the enchantment and replaying it due to the following rule:
[rule]
Notice how cards you remove can be added to by replaying this card over and over?
Nope. When you bounce it and play it, it retains no "memory" of what cards it removed previously. I'm pretty sure you're not even allowed to look at them anymore.
it appears i was wrong i did some research about it for the Lorwyn FAQ's and the following rule makes Colfernor's Plans crap imo.
* If Colfenor's Plans leaves play, you can no longer look at or play the cards removed by it. That means you can't distinguish them for any reason, such as for Glittering Wish.
Not true in the slightest. Off the top of my head, Jester's Cap did.
also ravager for a short while, cursed scroll was close (I can remember my local shop having them for 27 and people buying them). Necro was worth over 20 i am almost positive during black summer.
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Nope. When you bounce it and play it, it retains no "memory" of what cards it removed previously. I'm pretty sure you're not even allowed to look at them anymore.
It can't remember removing those cards because it didn't. They were removed by another Colfenor's Plans - the one you bounced.
It would be most accurate to say: The second ability of a Colfenor's Plans can't apply if it isn't in play.
This "memory" stuff is jack. When you play Colfenor's Plans again, the reason it has no memory of before is because it never existed before. It has nothing to do with the Colfenor's Plans that was in play a moment ago; there's no connection between the new one and the cards removed by the old one.
Imagine playing Colfenor's Plans, returning it to hand, then playing a different Colfenor's Plans card from hand. For the game, this is the same thing as you replaying the first Colfenor's Plans card. You're the only entity who would know it's the same physical card. The game doesn't care.
*~*~*~
So... my suspicions were well-founded? Colfenor's Plans are bad plans?
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Actually, that might be the answer. That thing is insane. It won't be as valuable as either Tarmogoyf or Thoughtseize, but it could have that sleeper potential that 'goyf had.
Edit: just checked ebay, apparently they're going for around $4 apiece right now. I'd say they stabilize at more like $10-12 if goblins perform at States.
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I don't know if it'll be the next Goyf, but Elvish Handservant is potentially pretty good, and also undervalued. +1/+1 for every Changeling spell played by either you or your opponent for only 1 mana. If Giants ever become playable then it could be quite nice.
Personally? I think Knucklebone is going to go up a decent amount. Then again, I'm wagering that Goblins will be a very competitive deck, and I like them besides. So I need to get a playset before they become pricey.
What I hope to be a new Goyf in terms of price is definitely Packmaster. It's good. I also happen to have 9 from the Pre-release, as well as one from a pack. I don't know how much the Prerelease Packmasters go for, but I traded ONE Liliana Vess for THREE of the Prerelease Packmasters. The regular Packmaster goes for about $4 on cardkingdom, and Vess is currently selling for 5.
I win.
What I hope to be a new Goyf in terms of price is definitely Packmaster. It's good. I also happen to have 9 from the Pre-release, as well as one from a pack. I don't know how much the Prerelease Packmasters go for, but I traded ONE Liliana Vess for THREE of the Prerelease Packmasters. The regular Packmaster goes for about $4 on cardkingdom, and Vess is currently selling for 5.
I win.
Packmaster isn't that great. It's a 5/5 for 4 mana at the cost of a creature. Am I missing something? Tell me the Wolf ability is useful for green.
Thoughtseize has a lot of monetary value attached to it. Like, a lot. That's because it's friggin' bonkers.
Although I doubt EXTREMELY its potency to cost much money, Ajani Goldmane is severely underrated. You gain 2 life a turn, up until the point that you want a large creature to beat with. People don't realize that you don't even need a deck built around it to have it kick ass -- much like Tarmogoyf.
tarmogoyf will be great in lorwyn, especialy tarmorack, wich will live thanks to Thoughtseize and Oona's Prowler and some of the evoke creatures
I wish people would stop mentioning Oona's Prowler as something to help Tarmorack. I see people state how great it is because other people will discard to it. If people are discarding to it, it is only because they are already losing or because they don't realize the impact.
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Obv. it has to be Mirror Entity... by himself he's a carrion ants, but with other creatures? he's insane. even ONE other creature makes this amazing, and with kithkin or elves, this guy straight up WINS games. WINS.
"t3h" is a "1337Speak" (that is, "Leet", aka Elite speak) form of the word "the", bastardized into "teh" by typos, then further into t3h by other typos/letter-number replacement.
As for this set's "Tarmogoyf", if you mean card that is going to be worth a significant amount of money and will be played in just about every deck of its color in every format, that card is obviously Thoughtseize.
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No card ever got up to $30 when it was in Standard.
Kokusho and Cranial Extraction both got UP to 30, but only Cranial hovered up in that area longer. Ravager definately was in the 30 range for a while. Also, The RAV duals were definately close to 30 at first release, but quickly dropped once the more popular ones started to trend.
I wish people would stop mentioning Oona's Prowler as something to help Tarmorack. I see people state how great it is because other people will discard to it. If people are discarding to it, it is only because they are already losing or because they don't realize the impact.
Fine by me. Then I'm doing 3 in the air every turn and making them discard with other cards. The goal of Tarmorack is to deal 20 damage. In my opinion, if the rack is on the board, they won't discard to the prowler but if the rack is not on the board, they will to avoid the extra 2 and hope you don't draw a rack. This is what we call a "win-win".
packmaster has won me SO many games thanks to his deathtouching wolves, its not even funny. sure he costs 4 mana, but its not PLUS the cost of a creature... It comes back REMEMEBR. and if you can manage to champion something with a citp ability, then even better. i would vote packmaster and oonas prowler. that card is just plain GOOD
Well, since Tarmogoyf just hit $40, I think it's safe to say that NOTHING in Lorwyn (or in a the next few years, for that matter) will ever live up to it. However, as fas as the "most expensive card" goes, it's quite clear that Thoughtseize is obviously it. Of course, you're asking for a "sleeper hit", and so I'd wager that's Knucklebone Witch. It's inevitable.
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That being said, I'd call Oona's Prowler even better than Tarmogoyf. I can handle a 6/7 creature for 1G, but not a 3/1 flying faerie for the same mana cost (though in different color) that's giving me choices, thus pushing the pressure on me. That's my opinion.
I honestly can't tell whether or not you're being serious.
actually way back i believe there was this deck called affinity that used a card that was around 20-30 dollars a piece... oh yeah i believe it was called Arcbound Ravenger. Your statement is very false. Exalted angel, Umizawas Jitte, and Kokusho were all around 20-30 dollars each..
In my opinion, nothing in Lorwyn seems as powerful as the Goyf. However, if your asking what the most powerful card in Lorwyn is, I'd have to put a lot of money on Wren's Run Packmaster.
Turn one, forest, elves, turn 2, land, birds/elves, turn 3 land, play the Packmaster, champion off an elf, turn 4, make a 2/2 DEATHTOUCHING token. Poeple always forget that the tokens have deathtouch, and so they write the card off. I think that's why it's so underrated.
1. You're paying 2G for a 2/2. A 2/2 deathtouch isn't that unreasonable, certainly not exceptional. It's not underpriced like the Vanquisher. In my experience, there are too many better options for 2G in Standard Elves (including Imperious Perfect and Llanowar Sentinel, which unlike the wolf can be pumped by the Perfect) for it to be worthwhile making the tokens in the first place. It's the same choice you'd face if you have a 2G 2/2 deathtouch and a Perfect in hand and have to decide which to cast.
2. Deathtouch is one of those abilities which is only relevant to creatures - normally that means if the wolves are attacking. It's rare to block in Constructed at the best of times, certainly not to block a 2/2. That puts it in the same league as first strike, and if the Packmaster said "Wolves get first strike", people still wouldn't be impressed.
Wren's Run Packmaster is a Juzam - a 5/5 for 4 with a minimal drawback. In context it's no better than Boggart Mob, which no one talks about, and probably worse since you're more likely to be running Goblins than Wolves. And Juzam-quality creatures haven't seen play for some time - Plague Sliver sank without a trace. Aside from its value for champion trickery and possibly in a Tundra Wolves deck, it's just another finisher without evasion, and green has other cheap big monsters at its disposal (one quite well-known one costs 1G for a potentially bigger body).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Oona's Prowler does ultimately come out as the best creature in the set - it's more versatile in the decks that can play it than even Wren's Run Vanquisher, flying threats are hard to deal with early-game, and it can be pumped by Scion of Oona, which with the ability to give the Prowler shroud as an instant is effectively a counterspell when it hits and sticks around pumping the thing up. Being able to turn into Mistblind Clique as another option to save itself is to its credit as well. And in case it matters (and it probably doesn't), it can't be countered by Faerie Trickery. All in all, it's a good time to be a Faerie.
Phil
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also ravager for a short while, cursed scroll was close (I can remember my local shop having them for 27 and people buying them). Necro was worth over 20 i am almost positive during black summer.
An open challenge to all salvation posters: Come play me at fnm at Toys From the Attic in Somersworth New Hampshire, the name is Chris Laskey and if you dare face the kithkin/red deck wins onslaught.
It can't remember removing those cards because it didn't. They were removed by another Colfenor's Plans - the one you bounced.
It would be most accurate to say: The second ability of a Colfenor's Plans can't apply if it isn't in play.
This "memory" stuff is jack. When you play Colfenor's Plans again, the reason it has no memory of before is because it never existed before. It has nothing to do with the Colfenor's Plans that was in play a moment ago; there's no connection between the new one and the cards removed by the old one.
Imagine playing Colfenor's Plans, returning it to hand, then playing a different Colfenor's Plans card from hand. For the game, this is the same thing as you replaying the first Colfenor's Plans card. You're the only entity who would know it's the same physical card. The game doesn't care.
*~*~*~
So... my suspicions were well-founded? Colfenor's Plans are bad plans?
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Yep. As the saying goes, "the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry, but the best laid plans of treefolk just plain suck."
Edit: just checked ebay, apparently they're going for around $4 apiece right now. I'd say they stabilize at more like $10-12 if goblins perform at States.
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What I hope to be a new Goyf in terms of price is definitely Packmaster. It's good. I also happen to have 9 from the Pre-release, as well as one from a pack. I don't know how much the Prerelease Packmasters go for, but I traded ONE Liliana Vess for THREE of the Prerelease Packmasters. The regular Packmaster goes for about $4 on cardkingdom, and Vess is currently selling for 5.
I win.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
Nice call. Heck, even if you don't control a faerie to champion, it can be cast to kill a turn. You can save a buddy in response to a kill spell.
I don't know that it will grab major $$$ due to the faerie stricture, but that is good. I hadn't really noticed that card, but I do now.
You just doomed Lianna Vess to be the next Goyf.
Thoughtseize has a lot of monetary value attached to it. Like, a lot. That's because it's friggin' bonkers.
Although I doubt EXTREMELY its potency to cost much money, Ajani Goldmane is severely underrated. You gain 2 life a turn, up until the point that you want a large creature to beat with. People don't realize that you don't even need a deck built around it to have it kick ass -- much like Tarmogoyf.
False: The Clique says "When a faerie is championed with Mistbind Clique" not "when Mistbind Clique comes into play"
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No, you have to champion something to get the Mana Short effect. Read t3h card.
Yeah, if Colfenor's Plans let you draw the cards, it'd be decent, but as is, it pretty much sucks.
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
I wish people would stop mentioning Oona's Prowler as something to help Tarmorack. I see people state how great it is because other people will discard to it. If people are discarding to it, it is only because they are already losing or because they don't realize the impact.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
What is t3h?
quote me, its amazing.
"t3h" is a "1337Speak" (that is, "Leet", aka Elite speak) form of the word "the", bastardized into "teh" by typos, then further into t3h by other typos/letter-number replacement.
As for this set's "Tarmogoyf", if you mean card that is going to be worth a significant amount of money and will be played in just about every deck of its color in every format, that card is obviously Thoughtseize.
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Kokusho and Cranial Extraction both got UP to 30, but only Cranial hovered up in that area longer. Ravager definately was in the 30 range for a while. Also, The RAV duals were definately close to 30 at first release, but quickly dropped once the more popular ones started to trend.
Fine by me. Then I'm doing 3 in the air every turn and making them discard with other cards. The goal of Tarmorack is to deal 20 damage. In my opinion, if the rack is on the board, they won't discard to the prowler but if the rack is not on the board, they will to avoid the extra 2 and hope you don't draw a rack. This is what we call a "win-win".
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I honestly can't tell whether or not you're being serious.
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1. You're paying 2G for a 2/2. A 2/2 deathtouch isn't that unreasonable, certainly not exceptional. It's not underpriced like the Vanquisher. In my experience, there are too many better options for 2G in Standard Elves (including Imperious Perfect and Llanowar Sentinel, which unlike the wolf can be pumped by the Perfect) for it to be worthwhile making the tokens in the first place. It's the same choice you'd face if you have a 2G 2/2 deathtouch and a Perfect in hand and have to decide which to cast.
2. Deathtouch is one of those abilities which is only relevant to creatures - normally that means if the wolves are attacking. It's rare to block in Constructed at the best of times, certainly not to block a 2/2. That puts it in the same league as first strike, and if the Packmaster said "Wolves get first strike", people still wouldn't be impressed.
Wren's Run Packmaster is a Juzam - a 5/5 for 4 with a minimal drawback. In context it's no better than Boggart Mob, which no one talks about, and probably worse since you're more likely to be running Goblins than Wolves. And Juzam-quality creatures haven't seen play for some time - Plague Sliver sank without a trace. Aside from its value for champion trickery and possibly in a Tundra Wolves deck, it's just another finisher without evasion, and green has other cheap big monsters at its disposal (one quite well-known one costs 1G for a potentially bigger body).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Oona's Prowler does ultimately come out as the best creature in the set - it's more versatile in the decks that can play it than even Wren's Run Vanquisher, flying threats are hard to deal with early-game, and it can be pumped by Scion of Oona, which with the ability to give the Prowler shroud as an instant is effectively a counterspell when it hits and sticks around pumping the thing up. Being able to turn into Mistblind Clique as another option to save itself is to its credit as well. And in case it matters (and it probably doesn't), it can't be countered by Faerie Trickery. All in all, it's a good time to be a Faerie.
Phil