It sounds like you are arguing with me, when that is exactly what I said
Maybe I'm wrong though.
But yeah, dissipate is definitely better. Counterspells aren't very popular right now, so the untapping is much less relevant and much more situationally good.
I'm actually agreeing with you, sorry if I came off as arguing.
Unless the meta really slows down I don't see much hope for a 4 mana counterspell even if it untaps my lands. It is quite lovely in EDH.... but few things aren't lol.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
This was a solid card the 2nd time it saw print after the days of the really damn good counterspells were long gone. In a landscape where counterspells are even at more of a disadvantage then when Rewind was printed last then I expect this card to show up in all controlling decks. The card is horrible in decks that can not utilize mana at EOT though so it basically regulates itself out of decks like Delver at the 4 mana cost.
Yea it's too bad they don't have anything to do like Moorland Haunt or Restoration Angel.
Despite WotC seemingly pushing the game towards a more creature based meta it also seems like they are trying to slow it down a good bit as well. I think turns 4-5 are going to be more crucial post rotation then turns 2-3 are now especially since we're not getting a "hard" board sweep until turn 6 (miracles not withstanding) and they're not reprinting Shock which means 3/4 CMC with 2 toughness have a better chance at seeing play.
Yea it's too bad they don't have anything to do like Moorland Haunt or Restoration Angel.
It's more that the deck besides saving mana for Restoration Angel on turn 4 is really never wanting to keep 4 mana+untapped at once. I may be wrong but I sincerely doubt this card shows up in Delver since you will likely never see it at the best time if you only run 1 copy and running 4 means you can have it glut in your hand when your trying to be a tempo deck.
It sure is amazing with Restoration Angel though obviously most ****ing cards are :).
hmm, so control decks will lose to tempo decks with control spells...thats nothing new.
duress plus cavern makes zombies laugh counterspells off though, so im still comfortable
this still doesnt do much to answer naya pod or humans though since they ramp, so i dont think Rewind really gets in as more than a possible 2 of? maybe i have no idea whats good, but even with Restoration angel i dont see why you'd need this unless you were trying to counter bigger spells
How about "You may discard your hand, pay 5 life, rip this card, remove 3 digits from any number of target fingers you control, and concede at the end of the next end step rather than pay It Will Go Through!!'s mana cost.
This is simply too good. We have a ton of flash creatures. Now we get to counter a spell and still play our flash creatures. Will be at 2-3 in any deck with blue and flash creatures. So again....thank you for adding more power to delver decks.
Rewind was awesome last time around. If the format slows down it should be a house again. To be fair you had cards like Decree of Justice, Eternal Dragon, Exalted Angel morph costs to use after untapping, as well as temple of the false god to generate extra mana, and the best of them all, Wing Shards (2 extra storm was absurd). I top 8'd like 5 JSS's with that UW deck, although Rewind wasn't exactly the reason it was so good (cough Akroma's Vengeance, Decree of Justice/Silence, Eternal Dragon, Wing Shards, Exalted Angel, Culling Scales cough) Now we have Alchemy, Snapcaster, and Think Twice, Desolate Lighthouse, Moorland Haunt, Restoration Angel to work with it, so it should still be good.
This is simply too good. We have a ton of flash creatures. Now we get to counter a spell and still play our flash creatures. Will be at 2-3 in any deck with blue and flash creatures. So again....thank you for adding more power to delver decks.
a 4 mana counterspell not named Cryptic Command isnt something delver will likely play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
They won't reprint those. I think they learned they are much to good for Limited.
They weren't back breaking in limited since they actually slowed down the format, coupled with the signets in that set common ramp and fixing didn't break anything since everyone got access to it.
On another note they would make ghost quarter better as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kiln Fiend »
I shout out YOLO every time I fetch for an untapped shockland.
If true, then this is certainly a game-changer. Obtaining a 4-mana tempo advantage during your opponent's turn in a format with Think Twice, Forbidden Alchemy, Snapcaster Mage and Restoration Angel could easily become deadly fast. I kinda wish they'd printed this in M12 instead of Mana Leak, as it is an excellent foil to the Titans.
And never you mind Cavern of Souls. There are enough reasonable creature removal spells in the format that the chances of them resolving something bombier than yours and being able to defend it are slim.
The question now becomes which needs to be the third support color. Wolfir Silverheart provides an excellent endgame that can turn a lowly Snapcaster Mage into an endgame threat. Black provides Duress and targeted removal, and quite possibly Havengul Lich as a win condition.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
What troubles me about this card is that there's no ... mixup. Once 4 mana goes active it's just better that you have it. If the other guy doesn't have relevant instants to go over the Rewind.... you just cast the Rewind if you need to hit the next thing, or if you represent any instant advancement at all (USZ). You never don't cast the Rewind except inasmuch as you don't overexpend your resources - but that becomes "never" if you have the instant card draw and the other guy doesn't, like, mock you with a bait.
What would be interesting, but I don't see how to mechanically accomplish it in any pretty way, is if a Rewind homage were printed, which strategically had the effect of the same strength when you anticipate the move you can counter going first, and then being ready for afterwards, but the opponent could instead switch what they do, and using Rewind on the second thing is a mistake (but still counters it).
What I've described is very nearly impossible, since a counterspell is a counterspell. There's nothing to switch, because it's all counterable. You Rewind if you will get something decent for the mana. Period. What I see would involve horribly abusing the words 'flash', 'stack', and possibly 'if able'. The execution would have to be just right for all the complexity to still read as the elegant time rewinding concept.
4 mana spells I suppose deserve to become stronger simply, but I'm concerned for the balance factor of Islands overall, plus wary of whatever ridiculous combo that R&D has to avoid printing in the awesomeness that is RavII. Rewind can define formats, is basically the consensus heretofore. When that happens with a counterspell everyone suffers.
Am I wrong? Is there a wrong time to cast this?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Epic banner by Erasmus of æтђєг.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Has anyone notice that it clearly says Untap up to four lands, and not just basic lands? Sword of Feast and Famine effect for up to four lands on a counter spell? Teehee.
Bringing back Rewind brings back 3rd grade memories, back when Urza's Saga was cool and Counterspell was a pain in the butt.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not sure if this card is gonna get banned sooner or maybe later...
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
Interesting! Still in a u/g flash shell tho, with yeva? I also love the idea of having a handfulnof rewinds, and just countering 3-4 things in a row lol
I'm actually agreeing with you, sorry if I came off as arguing.
dissipate just seems to do more relevant things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Yea it's too bad they don't have anything to do like Moorland Haunt or Restoration Angel.
Despite WotC seemingly pushing the game towards a more creature based meta it also seems like they are trying to slow it down a good bit as well. I think turns 4-5 are going to be more crucial post rotation then turns 2-3 are now especially since we're not getting a "hard" board sweep until turn 6 (miracles not withstanding) and they're not reprinting Shock which means 3/4 CMC with 2 toughness have a better chance at seeing play.
It's more that the deck besides saving mana for Restoration Angel on turn 4 is really never wanting to keep 4 mana+untapped at once. I may be wrong but I sincerely doubt this card shows up in Delver since you will likely never see it at the best time if you only run 1 copy and running 4 means you can have it glut in your hand when your trying to be a tempo deck.
It sure is amazing with Restoration Angel though obviously most ****ing cards are :).
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Me thinks they doesth protest too much.
duress plus cavern makes zombies laugh counterspells off though, so im still comfortable
this still doesnt do much to answer naya pod or humans though since they ramp, so i dont think Rewind really gets in as more than a possible 2 of? maybe i have no idea whats good, but even with Restoration angel i dont see why you'd need this unless you were trying to counter bigger spells
Updated 11/01/13
-->Standard:
:symwg::symwg::symwg: Aggressive Midrange
:symu::symu::symu: Devotion
-->Modern:
:symwg::symrg::symug: Kiki-Jiki Pod
:0mana::symur::0mana: Affinity
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
a 4 mana counterspell not named Cryptic Command isnt something delver will likely play.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
i think it is in a format not called modern
They won't reprint those. I think they learned they are much to good for Limited.
On topic, Delver isn't playing this, it's worse than every card already in the deck. Might be good if the format slows down after RTR.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
They weren't back breaking in limited since they actually slowed down the format, coupled with the signets in that set common ramp and fixing didn't break anything since everyone got access to it.
On another note they would make ghost quarter better as well.
And never you mind Cavern of Souls. There are enough reasonable creature removal spells in the format that the chances of them resolving something bombier than yours and being able to defend it are slim.
The question now becomes which needs to be the third support color. Wolfir Silverheart provides an excellent endgame that can turn a lowly Snapcaster Mage into an endgame threat. Black provides Duress and targeted removal, and quite possibly Havengul Lich as a win condition.
Wait...Cavern of Souls is a card?
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
let the brewing begin!
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
What would be interesting, but I don't see how to mechanically accomplish it in any pretty way, is if a Rewind homage were printed, which strategically had the effect of the same strength when you anticipate the move you can counter going first, and then being ready for afterwards, but the opponent could instead switch what they do, and using Rewind on the second thing is a mistake (but still counters it).
What I've described is very nearly impossible, since a counterspell is a counterspell. There's nothing to switch, because it's all counterable. You Rewind if you will get something decent for the mana. Period. What I see would involve horribly abusing the words 'flash', 'stack', and possibly 'if able'. The execution would have to be just right for all the complexity to still read as the elegant time rewinding concept.
4 mana spells I suppose deserve to become stronger simply, but I'm concerned for the balance factor of Islands overall, plus wary of whatever ridiculous combo that R&D has to avoid printing in the awesomeness that is RavII. Rewind can define formats, is basically the consensus heretofore. When that happens with a counterspell everyone suffers.
Am I wrong? Is there a wrong time to cast this?
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Bringing back Rewind brings back 3rd grade memories, back when Urza's Saga was cool and Counterspell was a pain in the butt.
Interesting! Still in a u/g flash shell tho, with yeva? I also love the idea of having a handfulnof rewinds, and just countering 3-4 things in a row lol