I'm not sure if Hymn would break open the format too badly, but it certainly has the potential to do so. I also wonder if some combination of Fires of Yavimaya, devastating summons, bloodbraid elf, and all that other aggro goodness couldn't do so as well.
The more i think about what the format can be the more I wonder what the counter war is going to look like to keep all the crazyness in check. I really feel like Foil will be heavily played (along with Squee, Bloodghast, vengevine, etc) to keep the format in check. Just off the top of my head, assuming that this format is masques up, a core control / dredge list might be a great option:
4 x Foil
4 x Daze
4 x Bloodghast
4 x Counterspell or mana leak
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Tombstalker
Hymn isn't really over the curve, power wise, unless you consider Mind Rot the curve for strong discard. It just lacks skill. Duress, Thoughtsieze, Inquisition, and Cabal Therapy are all more powerful because they cost that magical 1 mana that lets you get what you want even without ramp, before your opponent can do anything. That's not even considering Mind Twist that sits on the banned list, making it likely the most powerful discard spell, ever. A lot of Twist and Hymn's power comes from Dark Ritual and other fast mana from early Magic, though. Really, their biggest issue is that random discard really pisses off players because it ends up bringing tournament matches down to luck when it's good enough to be played. On pure power level, though, I honestly think they'd both be safe in current standard, especially Hymn. Of course, with the double black, I don't see it getting anything besides a questionable spot in vampires, until the time that another mono black deck gets good.
No, it is above the curve. Thoughtseize is fine, if very strong, because it's ultimately just a one for one that costs the caster mana. Hymn generates card advantage for the caster and has the ability to completely screw your opponent with the randomness. A lot of people would probably argue that Hymn is better than Mind Twist, because the first couple turns are so important in Legacy. Before Turn 4, Hymn is better.
It's the same argument as Counterspell being overpowered. It's not amazingly powerful at all. It just pisses noobs off because it's so cheap and can counter anything at just about any time. (in theory) If it were really that powerful, it would have seen more play over Remand, Memory Lapse, Negate, or Mana Leak in extended. The fact that it wasn't played over the, supposedly inferior choices really speaks to the true power level.
If you don't think Counterspell is well above the curve, a) you're wrong, and Wizards R&D who know better than you or I have tested and said this, and b) this isn't the place to discuss it.
As for Force of Will, that would be busted in Standard too. Considering that the current power curve for counters is now Cancel, I certainly think a free counterspell would be quite broken.
In my opinion the only archetype that loses badly from the speculated format is control. The best creatures (Goyf, Nacatl, Ape/Lion, Tombstalker, Nighthawk, Pridemage, etc.) are all still legal and combo still basically has dredge unchecked and only really lost LED in terms of fast mana.
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As for Force of Will, that would be busted in Standard too. Considering that the current power curve for counters is now Cancel, I certainly think a free counterspell would be quite broken.
[/quote]
-1 life and 2 for 1ing yourself is not free. Force would see play, but I don't think it would break the format open.
I feel like when control loses to aggro in this meta it's because they run out of answers, and Force doesn't really help out with that.
Not that I think it will be reprinted, but I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility power level wise.
Isn't this the same logic that was used with Lightning Bolt never being reprinted.... M10 and M11 would like to have a word with you. I think that WoTC may be testing the waters again with some of the older spells. Creatures are SOOOO good right now that the spells need to even the playing field somehow.
Lightning Bolt actually takes some skill to use properly. You have to know when to save it for your opponent's creature or to hit them.
Hymn to Tourach has one use and one use only. At least discard that allows your opponent to choose punishes them if they choose the wrong cards in the same way that Lightning Bolt "punishes" you for using it at the wrong time.
Lightning Bolt actually takes some skill to use properly. You have to know when to save it for your opponent's creature or to hit them.
Hymn to Tourach has one use and one use only. At least discard that allows your opponent to choose punishes them if they choose the wrong cards in the same way that Lightning Bolt "punishes" you for using it at the wrong time.
More importantly, Lightning Bolt can be reprinted because it has the kind of portable, accessible, resonant flavor that was one of M10's main goals. Hymn to Tourach fails that test. Hard. It is always going to lose its reprint slot to Stupor or Mind Rot or Thoughtseize or some other discard spell because it lacks that resonant flavor. Lightning Bolts are spells you can easily imagine casting, but who even knows who Tourach is and why his Hymns make people discard cards? At least Counterspell has a strong, descriptive name and flavor.
As for Force of Will, I think it lacks a certain elegance. The "Pay 1 life" cost doesn't really match the rest of the card. It's more likely to get homages like Pact of Negation and Commandeer than a straight reprint, even if power level weren't a concern.
More importantly, Lightning Bolt can be reprinted because it has the kind of portable, accessible, resonant flavor that was one of M10's main goals. Hymn to Tourach fails that test. Hard. It is always going to lose its reprint slot to Stupor or Mind Rot or Thoughtseize or some other discard spell because it lacks that resonant flavor. Lightning Bolts are spells you can easily imagine casting, but who even knows who Tourach is and why his Hymns make people discard cards? At least Counterspell has a strong, descriptive name and flavor.
As for Force of Will, I think it lacks a certain elegance. The "Pay 1 life" cost doesn't really match the rest of the card. It's more likely to get homages like Pact of Negation and Commandeer than a straight reprint, even if power level weren't a concern.
But we digress.
Yes, exactly for the reason Divination was printed in M10 instead of Counsel of the Soratami. The name, like the hymn's, is too specific.
No, it is above the curve. Thoughtseize is fine, if very strong, because it's ultimately just a one for one that costs the caster mana. Hymn generates card advantage for the caster and has the ability to completely screw your opponent with the randomness. A lot of people would probably argue that Hymn is better than Mind Twist, because the first couple turns are so important in Legacy. Before Turn 4, Hymn is better.
If you don't think Counterspell is well above the curve, a) you're wrong, and Wizards R&D who know better than you or I have tested and said this, and b) this isn't the place to discuss it.
As for Force of Will, that would be busted in Standard too. Considering that the current power curve for counters is now Cancel, I certainly think a free counterspell would be quite broken.
In my opinion the only archetype that loses badly from the speculated format is control. The best creatures (Goyf, Nacatl, Ape/Lion, Tombstalker, Nighthawk, Pridemage, etc.) are all still legal and combo still basically has dredge unchecked and only really lost LED in terms of fast mana.
I don't actually know whether Hymn is better than Mind Twist (which got the axe back when a lot more fast mana was legal), but that's not the point. I've tested Hymn in serveral legacy builds and against many standard decks, since someone wanted to play and I figured the deck was fair enough. While it's pretty good, it's not really that amazing. The off chance that Hymn breaks the game open really doesn't make up for the fact that I'd rather have something like Bloodghast or Nantuku Shade on turn 2 (depending on what the deck is trying to do) It wasn't even really that impressive against standard decks.
Now, as for Counterspell, we can certainly discuss it. Afterall, it's legal in the proposed format and I seriously doubt it'll see any more play than it did in extended before its rotation. Besides, the curve for counterspells hasn't risen over time. The only thing that's really changed is tacking on 1 mana to Counterspell. Seriously, there's a lot of other reasons cards get cut other than power.
Now, as for Cancel, it is not the curve for counters. We've seen Cryptic Command that's way more powerful for 1 more mana. We saw Faerie Trickery that would have been better if the faerie deck weren't so rediculous. We saw Dream Fracture that's generally better. We saw Hinder that's better outside of corner cases. We saw Remand that's arguably more powerful than Counterspell. We just got Deprive, which is putting up good results. Cancel is one of those under curve cards like Divination that we get as the vanilla effect. It's actually worth UU or 2U even comparing it to today's counters, but Wizards wanted to weaken the baseline hard counter so counter control wouldn't be teir 1 and didn't want it being splashed, so they printed Cancel. It's no different than the jank called Volcanic Hammer. It's good enough to be playable, but that doesn't make it on curve. (it would have been there as an instant)
Now that we have that out of the way, Force of Will is fine. It's very likely much better in Legacy or new extended where decks like combo are willing to throw away card advantage constantly. In standard where tempo and card advantage are king and games go longer, 2 for 1ing yourself isn't going to be nearly as good. Yes, it would still be playable in standard, but not likely to the same extent as eternal. The one life makes it look weird, though, but it was intended for balance. It and Contagion both have it because they were considered a bit more powerful than the rest of their cycle.
I don't know if the same logic that applies to counterspells can be applied to removal, but it costs at least one more to destroy a nonland permanent than it does to destroy a creature, so cancel must cost at least one more than essence scatter using that logic. Unless, you're saying essence scatter is bellow the curve too.
Actually, Essence Scatter probably is below the curve. Dispel (once Flash Counter), Annul, and Envelop all show that countering a specific type is fine at U. Negate counters everything but creatures for 1U and Spell Pierce double Force Spikes them for U.
Of course, even if we considered Essence Scatter the curve, and adding noncreature tacked on 1, that would still mean Cancel costs 2U just like I said. Besides, by R&D logic, 2C and CC are equivilant for costing, so that still puts Counterspell right on the curve. I'd say it's pretty accurate, too, considering Negate, Remand, Memory Lapse have all been able to steal its thunder in extended.
Actually, Essence Scatter probably is below the curve. Dispel (once Flash Counter), Annul, and Envelop all show that countering a specific type is fine at U. Negate counters everything but creatures for 1U and Spell Pierce double Force Spikes them for U.
Of course, even if we considered Essence Scatter the curve, and adding noncreature tacked on 1, that would still mean Cancel costs 2U just like I said. Besides, by R&D logic, 2C and CC are equivilant for costing, so that still puts Counterspell right on the curve. I'd say it's pretty accurate, too, considering Negate, Remand, Memory Lapse have all been able to steal its thunder in extended.
Creatures are different than all the other types, though. They're more important. There's a reason Thoughtseize is way better than Duress.
The real question is whether Duress is better than Ostracize. Thoughtsieze is Duress+ for the same mana cost, so obviously, it's better. That's why it costs 2 life.
The real question is whether Duress is better than Ostracize. Thoughtsieze is Duress+ for the same mana cost, so obviously, it's better. That's why it costs 2 life.
But if creatures counted the same as all the other card types, thoughtseize wouldn't be such a huge improvement.
But if creatures counted the same as all the other card types, thoughtseize wouldn't be such a huge improvement.
Thoughtseize is good because it can hit the best card in your opponents hand - it can never blank, unless your opponent has a godawful hand and will lose anyway. Much of the time it is not a creature card - creatures are usually small, weak, unimportant permanents that hopefully do some damage before getting killed unless you're running an 8 creature plan. There's a reason in formats outside of Standard that the same pool of cards is always found in the top 8 decks, and the only creature that has risen to the top is the currently in vogue "most efficient beatstick" - right now, it's Goyf. The creatures these decks run are largely arbitrary, if they run any at all: it's not unreasonable to run 0 creatures in a deck in Eternal. Brainstorm is more powerful than any creature ever printed. You can quote me on that.
Stuff like Ringleaders and Confidants are nice. Or if you're running a black aggro deck, creatures of every other color are larger and more evasive than yours as a rule, so it's nice to get rid of some pre-emptively. But really, the only decks that play discard that are really competitive are combo decks looking to use it as protection. Most of the time, those guys would be better off playing Duress. They want your Forces and Stifles, maybe Yixlid Jailer and Gaddock teeg; not your Goyf.
Brainstorm is more powerful than any creature ever printed. You can quote me on that.
Don't mind if I do.
When you made this comment you must have been looking at Magic with your eternal blinkers on. If Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant and Brainstorm all simultaneously became standard legal, how would your rank their impact on the format from 1st to 3rd. Brainstorm would be 3rd every time! Just being restricted in Vintage (and don't get me wrong, I concede that Brainstorm is very powerful) doesn't mean that it is objectively more powerful than other unrestricted cards in a vacuum. Ponder is also restricted in Vintage, and it is currently seeing next to no play in Standard (where Spreading Seas is quite rightly the cantrip of choice).
Creatures give you a large window of time to deal with them, while instants and sorceries give a comparitively small window. Duress is better than Ostracize because you will still be running creatures and/or removal which gives you a chance to answer a creature at a different point in time.
Similarly, Essence Scatter is generally considered pretty unplayable, whilst Negate/Spell Pierce can be very useful because while Baneslayer Angel and Cruel Ultimatum are probably pretty comparable in power (Ie. unanswered they win easily), against Baneslayer you have a much larger window and a greater number of options to remove her.
Spells are not always more powerful than creatures, but they are generally harder to stop. It should be noted that I haven't examined black's inability to deal with artifacts/enchantments any other way. this is another strength of Thoutseize/Duress.
Which is true, but I would stand by that statement in this proposed format, which was the context I was making that particular remark in.
In Standard right now, yes, Goyf would have the most impact, but Standard has a dramatically weaker card pool than Extended or Legacy, or even last seasons Standard. BS/Ponder are restricted in Vintage because of the preposterous consistency they offer to decks that have multiple insane bombs.
What I'm saying that as your card pool grows more powerful, creatures become relatively weaker, and the most powerful instants and sorceries float to the top of the pool and win games, with whatever win condition they have being relatively arbitrary next to their disruption package. I'm not arguing that Remove Soul or Essence Scatter should cost U. Sure, there are creatures that are more powerful than some spells. But if you go to the top tables in Extended or Legacy, you won't see those spells.
As for dealing with Artifacts and Enchantments, I will maintain blacks best way to do that is splash blue for bounce or green for K-Grip.
I think Vintage is the wrong format to be comparing cards like Goyf and Brainstorm. Excuse what I'm about to say, Vintage fans, but the format (and its valuations of certain cards) is warped by the existence of a good number of unbelievably powerful cards. Legacy is a much more stable environment to talk about the relative power of cards.
And before I start, no, you can't compare cards in a vacuum because they don't exist in a vacuum! Is Tendrils of Agony a bad card? Of course not, but if you simply consider it to be "Target player loses two life and you gain two life" for 2BB then it sucks!
In Legacy, and in fact in any format you could possibly conceive of that lacks cards that are bonkers/completely broken on any scale and by themselves change everything, Tarmogoyf plays a much, much larger role in the outcome of games than Brainstorm does. Brainstorm is nice and certainly undeniably powerful, but do you see Aggro decks splashing Blue just for it? No - but control decks are certainly splashing Green for Goyf. How to deal with Goyf is a top concern of any viable deck today. Whether that's your own Goyfs, efficient creatures that can trade/destroy it, ways to empty yards (Stalker), etc. Brainstorm is one of a few very powerful cantrips in Legacy but it has nowhere near the same level of power or effect on the game that Goyf or FoW does.
But if creatures counted the same as all the other card types, thoughtseize wouldn't be such a huge improvement.
Actually, it's more the result of spikes being willing to pay life for an increase in relevant options. 2 life for a Duress cantrip or a Duress-Ponder (even without the cantrip, would probably be heavily played, as well. Just look at what that Lava Spike did for Mind Rot's playability when it became Blightning. It's just the simple result that life is an abundant resource and is gladly traded for power and consistancy.
Now, as for Essence Scatter costing U, I actually don't think it would be that impressive outside of limited, anyway, where answers to creatures are at a premium. As has been mentioned, there's really no incentive to limit your creature only answer to before or during casting. Counterspells and discard are much more powerful against instants/sorceries due to being the only answers.
In Legacy, and in fact in any format you could possibly conceive of that lacks cards that are bonkers/completely broken on any scale and by themselves change everything, Tarmogoyf plays a much, much larger role in the outcome of games than Brainstorm does. Brainstorm is nice and certainly undeniably powerful, but do you see Aggro decks splashing Blue just for it? No - but control decks are certainly splashing Green for Goyf. How to deal with Goyf is a top concern of any viable deck today. Whether that's your own Goyfs, efficient creatures that can trade/destroy it, ways to empty yards (Stalker), etc. Brainstorm is one of a few very powerful cantrips in Legacy but it has nowhere near the same level of power or effect on the game that Goyf or FoW does.
You don't see aggro decks splashing blue for brainstorm because it doesn't advance their board position or deal damage to their opponent, so it's not consistent with their game plan. Aggro decks are on a clock to win before their opponents stronger cards gain control of the game or to do at least 10 damage to an opponent so that they think twice about paying a bucket of life into some "I win" sorcery. Controllish decks are advancing their clock for nothing more than an investment of 2 mana and splashing for an otherwise suboptimal color, which, as long as they're there, has some tangential benefits.
Brainstorm is one of several blue cards that has repeatedly allowed blue to dominate the top tables in legacy. There are good non blue decks, to be sure. But the combination of powerful combo decks and the ability to develop their own board position while disrupting their opponent, which non blue decks can't effectively do, has allowed anything blue based to rule the upper tier. Tarmogoyfs and their like come and go over the years. Cards like Brainstorm and Force are a constant. 10 years from now, people might not even be playing Tarmogoyf for some reason or another, but I'd put money that brainstorm will.
The fact that you even have to tell me there are a lot of ways to deal with Goyf (which is true) just goes to show how important it is. And the fact that Control splashes for both a suboptimal color and a creature (which control is normally unlikely to do) just goes to show how powerful Goyf is.
And Brainstorm is one of the powerful Blue spells in Legacy. The key point being one of. If Brainstorm went away not a single archetype would die. If Goyf went away then it would singlehandedly wreck Eva Green, Zoo, and a bunch of Countertop/Goyf or Threshold builds that rely on him to advance their game.
The only card, and only other card that has as much of an impact on Legacy right now is Force of Will.
So Belcher Loses LED and ESG, and doesn't have to worry about Force? Seems like that would be the deck to play.
It would also lose tinder wall and lotus petal. Belcher only works because there's a critical mass of acceleration in Legacy. Losing 4 different cards is enough to destroy the deck.
I hope they annouce the new format soon. I think it will be from invasion block onwards to get rid of brainstorm, dark ritual and rishadan port... it could be a complete success with an appropriate ban list.
I'd really like to see "Create your own standard" As a new format instead of overextended, basically, they announce what the blocks will be for the year or somesuch, then rotate it, would really create an interesting meta
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The more i think about what the format can be the more I wonder what the counter war is going to look like to keep all the crazyness in check. I really feel like Foil will be heavily played (along with Squee, Bloodghast, vengevine, etc) to keep the format in check. Just off the top of my head, assuming that this format is masques up, a core control / dredge list might be a great option:
4 x Foil
4 x Daze
4 x Bloodghast
4 x Counterspell or mana leak
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Tombstalker
Some dredge stuff, shock and fetch lands, etc.
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No, it is above the curve. Thoughtseize is fine, if very strong, because it's ultimately just a one for one that costs the caster mana. Hymn generates card advantage for the caster and has the ability to completely screw your opponent with the randomness. A lot of people would probably argue that Hymn is better than Mind Twist, because the first couple turns are so important in Legacy. Before Turn 4, Hymn is better.
If you don't think Counterspell is well above the curve, a) you're wrong, and Wizards R&D who know better than you or I have tested and said this, and b) this isn't the place to discuss it.
As for Force of Will, that would be busted in Standard too. Considering that the current power curve for counters is now Cancel, I certainly think a free counterspell would be quite broken.
In my opinion the only archetype that loses badly from the speculated format is control. The best creatures (Goyf, Nacatl, Ape/Lion, Tombstalker, Nighthawk, Pridemage, etc.) are all still legal and combo still basically has dredge unchecked and only really lost LED in terms of fast mana.
As for Force of Will, that would be busted in Standard too. Considering that the current power curve for counters is now Cancel, I certainly think a free counterspell would be quite broken.
[/quote]
-1 life and 2 for 1ing yourself is not free. Force would see play, but I don't think it would break the format open.
I feel like when control loses to aggro in this meta it's because they run out of answers, and Force doesn't really help out with that.
Not that I think it will be reprinted, but I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility power level wise.
Lightning Bolt actually takes some skill to use properly. You have to know when to save it for your opponent's creature or to hit them.
Hymn to Tourach has one use and one use only. At least discard that allows your opponent to choose punishes them if they choose the wrong cards in the same way that Lightning Bolt "punishes" you for using it at the wrong time.
More importantly, Lightning Bolt can be reprinted because it has the kind of portable, accessible, resonant flavor that was one of M10's main goals. Hymn to Tourach fails that test. Hard. It is always going to lose its reprint slot to Stupor or Mind Rot or Thoughtseize or some other discard spell because it lacks that resonant flavor. Lightning Bolts are spells you can easily imagine casting, but who even knows who Tourach is and why his Hymns make people discard cards? At least Counterspell has a strong, descriptive name and flavor.
As for Force of Will, I think it lacks a certain elegance. The "Pay 1 life" cost doesn't really match the rest of the card. It's more likely to get homages like Pact of Negation and Commandeer than a straight reprint, even if power level weren't a concern.
But we digress.
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Yes, exactly for the reason Divination was printed in M10 instead of Counsel of the Soratami. The name, like the hymn's, is too specific.
I don't actually know whether Hymn is better than Mind Twist (which got the axe back when a lot more fast mana was legal), but that's not the point. I've tested Hymn in serveral legacy builds and against many standard decks, since someone wanted to play and I figured the deck was fair enough. While it's pretty good, it's not really that amazing. The off chance that Hymn breaks the game open really doesn't make up for the fact that I'd rather have something like Bloodghast or Nantuku Shade on turn 2 (depending on what the deck is trying to do) It wasn't even really that impressive against standard decks.
Now, as for Counterspell, we can certainly discuss it. Afterall, it's legal in the proposed format and I seriously doubt it'll see any more play than it did in extended before its rotation. Besides, the curve for counterspells hasn't risen over time. The only thing that's really changed is tacking on 1 mana to Counterspell. Seriously, there's a lot of other reasons cards get cut other than power.
Now, as for Cancel, it is not the curve for counters. We've seen Cryptic Command that's way more powerful for 1 more mana. We saw Faerie Trickery that would have been better if the faerie deck weren't so rediculous. We saw Dream Fracture that's generally better. We saw Hinder that's better outside of corner cases. We saw Remand that's arguably more powerful than Counterspell. We just got Deprive, which is putting up good results. Cancel is one of those under curve cards like Divination that we get as the vanilla effect. It's actually worth UU or 2U even comparing it to today's counters, but Wizards wanted to weaken the baseline hard counter so counter control wouldn't be teir 1 and didn't want it being splashed, so they printed Cancel. It's no different than the jank called Volcanic Hammer. It's good enough to be playable, but that doesn't make it on curve. (it would have been there as an instant)
Now that we have that out of the way, Force of Will is fine. It's very likely much better in Legacy or new extended where decks like combo are willing to throw away card advantage constantly. In standard where tempo and card advantage are king and games go longer, 2 for 1ing yourself isn't going to be nearly as good. Yes, it would still be playable in standard, but not likely to the same extent as eternal. The one life makes it look weird, though, but it was intended for balance. It and Contagion both have it because they were considered a bit more powerful than the rest of their cycle.
Of course, even if we considered Essence Scatter the curve, and adding noncreature tacked on 1, that would still mean Cancel costs 2U just like I said. Besides, by R&D logic, 2C and CC are equivilant for costing, so that still puts Counterspell right on the curve. I'd say it's pretty accurate, too, considering Negate, Remand, Memory Lapse have all been able to steal its thunder in extended.
Creatures are different than all the other types, though. They're more important. There's a reason Thoughtseize is way better than Duress.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
But if creatures counted the same as all the other card types, thoughtseize wouldn't be such a huge improvement.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Thoughtseize is good because it can hit the best card in your opponents hand - it can never blank, unless your opponent has a godawful hand and will lose anyway. Much of the time it is not a creature card - creatures are usually small, weak, unimportant permanents that hopefully do some damage before getting killed unless you're running an 8 creature plan. There's a reason in formats outside of Standard that the same pool of cards is always found in the top 8 decks, and the only creature that has risen to the top is the currently in vogue "most efficient beatstick" - right now, it's Goyf. The creatures these decks run are largely arbitrary, if they run any at all: it's not unreasonable to run 0 creatures in a deck in Eternal. Brainstorm is more powerful than any creature ever printed. You can quote me on that.
Stuff like Ringleaders and Confidants are nice. Or if you're running a black aggro deck, creatures of every other color are larger and more evasive than yours as a rule, so it's nice to get rid of some pre-emptively. But really, the only decks that play discard that are really competitive are combo decks looking to use it as protection. Most of the time, those guys would be better off playing Duress. They want your Forces and Stifles, maybe Yixlid Jailer and Gaddock teeg; not your Goyf.
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When you made this comment you must have been looking at Magic with your eternal blinkers on. If Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant and Brainstorm all simultaneously became standard legal, how would your rank their impact on the format from 1st to 3rd. Brainstorm would be 3rd every time! Just being restricted in Vintage (and don't get me wrong, I concede that Brainstorm is very powerful) doesn't mean that it is objectively more powerful than other unrestricted cards in a vacuum. Ponder is also restricted in Vintage, and it is currently seeing next to no play in Standard (where Spreading Seas is quite rightly the cantrip of choice).
Weighing in on the Thoughtseize/Duress Essence Scatter/Dispel debate, you are ignoring the timing issue involved.
Creatures give you a large window of time to deal with them, while instants and sorceries give a comparitively small window. Duress is better than Ostracize because you will still be running creatures and/or removal which gives you a chance to answer a creature at a different point in time.
Similarly, Essence Scatter is generally considered pretty unplayable, whilst Negate/Spell Pierce can be very useful because while Baneslayer Angel and Cruel Ultimatum are probably pretty comparable in power (Ie. unanswered they win easily), against Baneslayer you have a much larger window and a greater number of options to remove her.
Spells are not always more powerful than creatures, but they are generally harder to stop. It should be noted that I haven't examined black's inability to deal with artifacts/enchantments any other way. this is another strength of Thoutseize/Duress.
In Standard right now, yes, Goyf would have the most impact, but Standard has a dramatically weaker card pool than Extended or Legacy, or even last seasons Standard. BS/Ponder are restricted in Vintage because of the preposterous consistency they offer to decks that have multiple insane bombs.
What I'm saying that as your card pool grows more powerful, creatures become relatively weaker, and the most powerful instants and sorceries float to the top of the pool and win games, with whatever win condition they have being relatively arbitrary next to their disruption package. I'm not arguing that Remove Soul or Essence Scatter should cost U. Sure, there are creatures that are more powerful than some spells. But if you go to the top tables in Extended or Legacy, you won't see those spells.
As for dealing with Artifacts and Enchantments, I will maintain blacks best way to do that is splash blue for bounce or green for K-Grip.
And before I start, no, you can't compare cards in a vacuum because they don't exist in a vacuum! Is Tendrils of Agony a bad card? Of course not, but if you simply consider it to be "Target player loses two life and you gain two life" for 2BB then it sucks!
In Legacy, and in fact in any format you could possibly conceive of that lacks cards that are bonkers/completely broken on any scale and by themselves change everything, Tarmogoyf plays a much, much larger role in the outcome of games than Brainstorm does. Brainstorm is nice and certainly undeniably powerful, but do you see Aggro decks splashing Blue just for it? No - but control decks are certainly splashing Green for Goyf. How to deal with Goyf is a top concern of any viable deck today. Whether that's your own Goyfs, efficient creatures that can trade/destroy it, ways to empty yards (Stalker), etc. Brainstorm is one of a few very powerful cantrips in Legacy but it has nowhere near the same level of power or effect on the game that Goyf or FoW does.
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Actually, it's more the result of spikes being willing to pay life for an increase in relevant options. 2 life for a Duress cantrip or a Duress-Ponder (even without the cantrip, would probably be heavily played, as well. Just look at what that Lava Spike did for Mind Rot's playability when it became Blightning. It's just the simple result that life is an abundant resource and is gladly traded for power and consistancy.
Now, as for Essence Scatter costing U, I actually don't think it would be that impressive outside of limited, anyway, where answers to creatures are at a premium. As has been mentioned, there's really no incentive to limit your creature only answer to before or during casting. Counterspells and discard are much more powerful against instants/sorceries due to being the only answers.
You don't see aggro decks splashing blue for brainstorm because it doesn't advance their board position or deal damage to their opponent, so it's not consistent with their game plan. Aggro decks are on a clock to win before their opponents stronger cards gain control of the game or to do at least 10 damage to an opponent so that they think twice about paying a bucket of life into some "I win" sorcery. Controllish decks are advancing their clock for nothing more than an investment of 2 mana and splashing for an otherwise suboptimal color, which, as long as they're there, has some tangential benefits.
Dealing with Goyf isn't hard. It's a 2CMC green creature. The only way you could possibly make it more vulnerable is to make it red and blue so it eats blasts. Run your own goyf into it. Run larger creatures. Just don't care about it, and it'll go away eventually. Kill it.
Brainstorm is one of several blue cards that has repeatedly allowed blue to dominate the top tables in legacy. There are good non blue decks, to be sure. But the combination of powerful combo decks and the ability to develop their own board position while disrupting their opponent, which non blue decks can't effectively do, has allowed anything blue based to rule the upper tier. Tarmogoyfs and their like come and go over the years. Cards like Brainstorm and Force are a constant. 10 years from now, people might not even be playing Tarmogoyf for some reason or another, but I'd put money that brainstorm will.
And Brainstorm is one of the powerful Blue spells in Legacy. The key point being one of. If Brainstorm went away not a single archetype would die. If Goyf went away then it would singlehandedly wreck Eva Green, Zoo, and a bunch of Countertop/Goyf or Threshold builds that rely on him to advance their game.
The only card, and only other card that has as much of an impact on Legacy right now is Force of Will.
It would also lose tinder wall and lotus petal. Belcher only works because there's a critical mass of acceleration in Legacy. Losing 4 different cards is enough to destroy the deck.
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