-Mana base
-Core sets
-2cards-combo decks
-affinity
-faeries
-probably many more
Mana base is a problem in create your own standard? Definitely not, since you have access to any single core set.
Affinity is hit because of block banned list + legacy banned list.
2 Card Combo decks do exist, yes, but they also exist in extended and legacy and are probably more powerful there since they have the entire cardpool to work with. And don't forget that Force of Will/ect still exist in BYOS, which they don't even exist in extended.
Love/miss TEPS. Here is a quick update I did to the deck. As for the lands, you could go the route of fetch/duals it you want. The might even work out better.
I hope they annouce the new format soon. I think it will be from odissey block onwards to get rid of brainstorm, dark ritual and rishadan port... it could be a complete success with an appropriate ban list.
If Wizards were to listen to this advice, they would have a criminally underpowered format on their hands. Mercadian Masques/Invasion block are both needed for the format to survive. The presence of Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Daze, Rishadan Port, Dust Bowl, Misdirection, etc. is one of the main factors that can draw ex-Legacy/Vintage players to the new, supported format. Besides, none of these cards are hideously broken, and all of them are reprintable in Master's Editions if prices become too high (or even in Core Sets unless they warped the current Standard metagame).
Also, the Reserve List officially ended with MM block. It would be symbolic if Wizards started their format there, instead of at some arbitrary later point.
If Wizards were to listen to this advice, they would have a criminally underpowered format on their hands. Mercadian Masques/Invasion block are both needed for the format to survive. The presence of Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Daze, Rishadan Port, Dust Bowl, Misdirection, etc. is one of the main factors that can draw ex-Legacy/Vintage players to the new, supported format. Besides, none of these cards are hideously broken, and all of them are reprintable in Master's Editions if prices become too high (or even in Core Sets unless they warped the current Standard metagame).
Also, the Reserve List officially ended with MM block. It would be symbolic if Wizards started their format there, instead of at some arbitrary later point.
-ktkenshinx-
I forgot about the invasion block! Edited and corrected
Yes one of the problems of this format will be dredge... was the dominating deck in extended back when odissey was legal. If it gets out of hand, banning bridge from bellow would be the best solution in my opinion.
Btw, if the purpose of this format is to have an eternal format where you can compete without having to spend horrendous amounts of money, shouldn't they reprint or ban goyf? 80$ card is kkthx for every player that wants to play something including green in his deck. In my opinion, they should just ban it. 1G for 5/6 or 6/7 is too much even if it dies to everything.
I know many people would complain (mainly those who already have their goyfs) but banning it and then printing a new 2cc creature at uncommon/rare that is somewhat balanced for standard but becomes very good in eternal would be better I think. This time at GG mana cost.
Yes one of the problems of this format will be dredge... was the dominating deck in extended back when odissey was legal. If it gets out of hand, banning bridge from bellow would be the best solution in my opinion.
Btw, if the purpose of this format is to have an eternal format where you can compete without having to spend horrendous amounts of money, shouldn't they reprint or ban goyf? 80$ card is kkthx for every player that wants to play something including green in his deck. In my opinion, they should just ban it. 1G for 5/6 or 6/7 is too much even if it dies to everything.
I know many people will complain (mainly those who already have their goyfs) but banning it and then printing a new 2cc creature at uncommon that is somewhat balanced for standard but becomes very good in eternal would be better I think. This time at GG mana cost.
Or they could just reprint the goyf... It is future shifted anyway.
Or they could just reprint the goyf... It is future shifted anyway.
No. As ridiculous as some of the crap Wizbro has been pulling lately, they will still NEVER reprint Tarmogoyf. Never, ever, ever. They've admitted several times that that card was one of the biggest mistakes they've made in quite some time.
EDIT: About this new format, I can see LD being a potentially good deck... Though dredge and TEPS will probably outclass it by a long shot.
EDIT: About this new format, I can see LD being a potentially good deck... Though dredge and TEPS will probably outclass it by a long shot.
This seems really unlikely: without Wasteland, Armageddon, Sinkhole, and even Tier 2 stuff like Ruination, what's left? Stifling fetches, maybe, and Dust Bowl? Using Chain of Vapor on your own Parallax Tide? In my opinion, the only LD strategy that's gonna be playable in the new format is Blood Moon effects, and even those are gonna be weakened because it's gonna be harder to get them out early without City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb, not to mention the likelihood that people are going to run shocks in lower proportions than duals are run in Legacy, so Moons will matter less.
If goyf is never gonna be reprinted what are they gonna do with the new format? If they release it after all, everybody will need goyfs and their price will go up even more maybe up to 100$ or more...
Goyf is a card that would probably get banned. Same goes for dogs like Entomb, Mind's Desire, Skullclamp, Disciple of the Vault, Sensei's Divining Top, etc. (Aether Vial does not belong on this list, and that is a point I will happily discuss).
As to Dredge's supposed dominance in the format, this is an unfounded fear. Every major graveyard hate card would remain legal in the new format: Tormod's Crypt, Ravenous Trap, Relic of Progenitus, Faerie Macabre, and the original Dredge-buster, Leyline of the Void. Dredge is a good deck in Legacy, but it is not dominant by any means. The same graveyard hate that checks it there will also check it here.
Goyf is a card that would probably get banned. Same goes for dogs like Entomb, Mind's Desire, Skullclamp, Disciple of the Vault, Sensei's Divining Top, etc. (Aether Vial does not belong on this list, and that is a point I will happily discuss).
As to Dredge's supposed dominance in the format, this is an unfounded fear. Every major graveyard hate card would remain legal in the new format: Tormod's Crypt, Ravenous Trap, Relic of Progenitus, Faerie Macabre, and the original Dredge-buster, Leyline of the Void. Dredge is a good deck in Legacy, but it is not dominant by any means. The same graveyard hate that checks it there will also check it here.
This seems really unlikely: without Wasteland, Armageddon, Sinkhole, and even Tier 2 stuff like Ruination, what's left? Stifling fetches, maybe, and Dust Bowl? Using Chain of Vapor on your own Parallax Tide? In my opinion, the only LD strategy that's gonna be playable in the new format is Blood Moon effects, and even those are gonna be weakened because it's gonna be harder to get them out early without City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb, not to mention the likelihood that people are going to run shocks in lower proportions than duals are run in Legacy, so Moons will matter less.
Using DeckCheck.net, there are 5 pages of decks that ever ran Planar Void in their sideboards in the last few years. Tormod's Crypt was featured in 224 pages of decks, with Leyline at 75 and Relic at 84. I don't think Void is much of an impact compared to the others.
Quote from Smokestack »
I'd rather see you arguing why Mind's Desire should be banned.
TPS would keep Brainstorm, Dark/Cabal Ritual, Merchant Scroll, Gifts, FoF, Ponder, and a variety of other cards. FoW can check it in Vintage, but this is not the case in a new format form MM onwards.
Quote from Smokestack »
In essence, a weak deck with a lot of hate will still lose to Dredge, just like a strong deck with no hate. There will inevitably be a moment in the life of the new format when Dredge will be the single most developed deck and other decks will have to play catch up in terms of basic deck design, not the amount of hate they can board.
I was not implying that Dredge is kept in check only by those cards. Obviously a total pile running 3x Crypt and 2x Trap in the board is not going to be worth consideration. But there are plenty of decks that run yard hate and will run yard hate in a new format, decks that are a lot stronger than you suggest.
Goblins, Merfolk, Zoo, ThopterDepths, Tempo Thresh, Affinity; these are but a few decks that would be perfectly well developed in the new format. At no point will Dredge be "the single most developed deck" in such a format, even if you just look at those 6 archetypes I listed above.
If the were to reprint Tarmo it would be through F:TV, duel deck, or maybe another type of product. It would be done so that it would not appear in standard, and probably not impact secondary prices as strongly. The whole point of the masques+ format is to give them freedom to reprint anything, that would mean they have a plan to reprint cards from this era that could never appear in a new set.
Tarmo is an expensive card, to be sure, but he's great in an aggressive deck. Its my understanding that the bigger the card pool, the better control/combo gets and the worse aggro gets. Banning Tarmo makes decks that don't benefit from its ludicrous bigosity that much better, giving the wrong kind of archetype a boost. You can ban Tarmo to please the people who don't like it because its a powerful card in an archetype they don't like as much and the people who can't afford to buy four in foil in japanese as they have for the rest of the deck, but that doesn't make the format better, which is what it will most need to be for long-term viability.
Tarmo is an expensive card, to be sure, but he's great in an aggressive deck. Its my understanding that the bigger the card pool, the better control/combo gets and the worse aggro gets. Banning Tarmo makes decks that don't benefit from its ludicrous bigosity that much better, giving the wrong kind of archetype a boost. You can ban Tarmo to please the people who don't like it because its a powerful card in an archetype they don't like as much and the people who can't afford to buy four in foil in japanese as they have for the rest of the deck, but that doesn't make the format better, which is what it will most need to be for long-term viability.
Why doesn't it make the format better? Doesn't it increase card variety?
And Tarmo isn't just used in aggro. It's used in many control decks in legacy, which would transition over to this format. In place of Dual lands, it just uses shocks and filters.
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Mana base is a problem in create your own standard? Definitely not, since you have access to any single core set.
Affinity is hit because of block banned list + legacy banned list.
2 Card Combo decks do exist, yes, but they also exist in extended and legacy and are probably more powerful there since they have the entire cardpool to work with. And don't forget that Force of Will/ect still exist in BYOS, which they don't even exist in extended.
If they became staples, that means a huge number of decks would be stuck with ice age as one part, which destroys the point of the format.
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
4x Sulfur Vent
4x Geothermal Crevice
Mana Excel/Fix
4x Dark Ritual
4x Rite of Flame
2x Cabal Ritual
4x Seething Song
1x Channel the Suns
4x Lotus Bloom
4x Chrome Mox
4x Manamorphose
4x Burning Wish
4x Peer Through Depths
4x Brainstorm
1x Ad Nauseam
The Bee's Knees
3x Mind's Desire
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Minds Desire
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Channel the Suns
1x Pyroclasm
1x Deathmark
4x Pact of Negation
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Hull Breach
1x Thoughtseize
If Wizards were to listen to this advice, they would have a criminally underpowered format on their hands. Mercadian Masques/Invasion block are both needed for the format to survive. The presence of Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Daze, Rishadan Port, Dust Bowl, Misdirection, etc. is one of the main factors that can draw ex-Legacy/Vintage players to the new, supported format. Besides, none of these cards are hideously broken, and all of them are reprintable in Master's Editions if prices become too high (or even in Core Sets unless they warped the current Standard metagame).
Also, the Reserve List officially ended with MM block. It would be symbolic if Wizards started their format there, instead of at some arbitrary later point.
-ktkenshinx-
There are many reasons to use Ice Age as one of your blocks, yes, but there are still many decks that will opt not to use Ice Age.
The fact remains that the presence of Force of Will based decks might be a strong factor in deterring solely combo decks from ruling.
I forgot about the invasion block! Edited and corrected
Some dredge builds run Undiscovered Paradise thanks to Bloodghast
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
Btw, if the purpose of this format is to have an eternal format where you can compete without having to spend horrendous amounts of money, shouldn't they reprint or ban goyf? 80$ card is kkthx for every player that wants to play something including green in his deck. In my opinion, they should just ban it. 1G for 5/6 or 6/7 is too much even if it dies to everything.
I know many people would complain (mainly those who already have their goyfs) but banning it and then printing a new 2cc creature at uncommon/rare that is somewhat balanced for standard but becomes very good in eternal would be better I think. This time at GG mana cost.
Or they could just reprint the goyf... It is future shifted anyway.
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i guess its speculated a lot that this will never happen...
Thank you for Heroes of the Plane Studios for this awesome sig.
Legacy:
Shardlessless BUG (active)
Shardless BUG (retired)
UW Stoneblade (retired)
Maveric (retired)
Thopters (retired)
Dark Horizons (retired)
Dreadstill (retired)
Armageddon Staxx (retired)
- You think it is over, but Ibraman has just begun...
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No. As ridiculous as some of the crap Wizbro has been pulling lately, they will still NEVER reprint Tarmogoyf. Never, ever, ever. They've admitted several times that that card was one of the biggest mistakes they've made in quite some time.
EDIT: About this new format, I can see LD being a potentially good deck... Though dredge and TEPS will probably outclass it by a long shot.
This seems really unlikely: without Wasteland, Armageddon, Sinkhole, and even Tier 2 stuff like Ruination, what's left? Stifling fetches, maybe, and Dust Bowl? Using Chain of Vapor on your own Parallax Tide? In my opinion, the only LD strategy that's gonna be playable in the new format is Blood Moon effects, and even those are gonna be weakened because it's gonna be harder to get them out early without City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb, not to mention the likelihood that people are going to run shocks in lower proportions than duals are run in Legacy, so Moons will matter less.
As to Dredge's supposed dominance in the format, this is an unfounded fear. Every major graveyard hate card would remain legal in the new format: Tormod's Crypt, Ravenous Trap, Relic of Progenitus, Faerie Macabre, and the original Dredge-buster, Leyline of the Void. Dredge is a good deck in Legacy, but it is not dominant by any means. The same graveyard hate that checks it there will also check it here.
-ktkenshinx-
coughPlanar Voidcough
That could be reprinted.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Keep in mind that with shocklands control/combo decks are in disadvantage vs aggro compared to legacy.
Pillage, Stone Rain and Molten Rain.
3 mana LD is the magic number for red with mana accel.
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
Using DeckCheck.net, there are 5 pages of decks that ever ran Planar Void in their sideboards in the last few years. Tormod's Crypt was featured in 224 pages of decks, with Leyline at 75 and Relic at 84. I don't think Void is much of an impact compared to the others.
TPS would keep Brainstorm, Dark/Cabal Ritual, Merchant Scroll, Gifts, FoF, Ponder, and a variety of other cards. FoW can check it in Vintage, but this is not the case in a new format form MM onwards.
I was not implying that Dredge is kept in check only by those cards. Obviously a total pile running 3x Crypt and 2x Trap in the board is not going to be worth consideration. But there are plenty of decks that run yard hate and will run yard hate in a new format, decks that are a lot stronger than you suggest.
Goblins, Merfolk, Zoo, ThopterDepths, Tempo Thresh, Affinity; these are but a few decks that would be perfectly well developed in the new format. At no point will Dredge be "the single most developed deck" in such a format, even if you just look at those 6 archetypes I listed above.
-ktkenshinx-
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Why doesn't it make the format better? Doesn't it increase card variety?
And Tarmo isn't just used in aggro. It's used in many control decks in legacy, which would transition over to this format. In place of Dual lands, it just uses shocks and filters.