If you all want to play legacy and older cards so much just come on over to mtgo where you can still crack duals, tabernacles, bazaars, and mana drains in a $4 pack. Wotc has provided an outlet for those who still want to get into older formats cheaply in the form of magic online. If you're not willing to even pay for that, why should wotc care about your opinion?
Thanks. Because if you can't afford to buy a 50cent to $1 rare in Dark Depths then you shouldn't be playing magic. If you only chase high dollar rares AFTER they become popular, your collection will not grow in value.
It didn't take a genius to realize 20/20 flying trapped in a land that can't be countered is a good card WAITING to be broken. Especially since WotC already released cards that remove all counters.
Hmm, a movie ticket with soda/candy for $20 or 20 Dark Depths for my collection? I'll take the movie! Make your choices but don't whine that everyone who didn't spend their money on flash-in-the-pan entertainment should have their collection value nerfed because you're bad with money.
You certainly don't need dual lands to play legacy. To collect them all at once would be difficult (40x$40=$1600) but collecting one per period or as you need one isn't difficult. Want to keep that Awesome $50 Mythic or trade it for a valued Legacy card? Which do you think will keep it's value long term: Baneslayer Angel or a revised dual land? I'll tell you a truth: I don't own any BSA's because WotC told us they'll reprint her in M2011.
Not hardly. I collect. I play. I trade. I sell. I came about 2 second from buying 20 Eye of Ungin on the Sunday Night before the preview of the butcher. Kicking myself on not pulling the trigger on that one. Anyone else buy a playset of 4 on speculation? I only have 2 and wished I had dropped the $100 on speculation.
And I don't own any of the power 10. I sold my 5 mox, beta Black Lotus, triple Blue and Library off in 2001. Needed the money on the house. Bad choice on my part since BL went through the roof by 2004. oops.
Because being smug about older players deserves to be called out. This game is expensive to collect. To be so overtly hostile to those of us who spent their money, stuck through massive rule changes, and went through the Fallen Empire period deserves to be called out on how wrong that person is. I've spent a truckload of money on this game since I started playing 1994. I've got a hell of a collection. I've also sold a collection in 95, had my second collection destroyed that same year, then had the bulk of my3rd collection stolen from my car's trunk in 96. So I've really put out money to have what I've got today.
I really don't care to see my cards and the ammount of money I put into obtaining what is functionally my 4th collection of the game drop from $50 a card to 50c because a 16 who started 1 year ago can't afford the collection I've got. Cry me a river.
I play my cards. I might have a few duals in a binder, but I've also got them in a Counter-top progentus deck, a land destruction (with sinkhole) deck, and even a fun beserking leveler deck with hide-away lands.
Beside to quote you, You play magic. Have at it. Do you play planechase? EDH? Star? None of these cost serious money like the eternal formats.
It appears that Spikes that want to go eternal are the source of the whining of how much cards cost that are COLLECTABLE. yet nobody here is seeking to band Tarmagoyf. It seems that the new players are all wanting to reprint duals because they're $40/$80 each and they don't have any, but Tarmagoyf at $90, BSA at $50 and Jace2.0 at $45 is okay because they've got those cards already.
Dude I have no problem with your and no problem with older players liking their collections but MAGIC thinking they are what's keeping magic going alone is silly and since Legacy is in fact dying you might try understanding that.
As for the high costs standard cards you can still open any of them in a 4 dollar booster hence why it's not a huge deal. want a BSA spend 80 bucks on a box and likely open one plus lots of other good stuff.
if Magic does premium reprints of your cards it won't harm their value since they can't instantly age them 12 years. What it will do is increase the advance magic players interest in eternal formats and in fact raise the value of your old cards. Without a reprint policy though nothing changes and your cards become older and more redundant since no one will pay 40+ dollars for a card in a format few play.
When goyf rotates out of extended his price can do anything but teh truth is more people can play goyf in more formats because he's newer hence a high price. You can only sue duals in legacy the only reason they are expensive is because they are rarer than goyf.
Like I said lets get everyone who loves the reserved list so much in their own format and let legacy become as popular as extended.
If you all want to play legacy and older cards so much just come on over to mtgo where you can still crack duals, tabernacles, bazaars, and mana drains in a $4 pack. Wotc has provided an outlet for those who still want to get into older formats cheaply in the form of magic online. If you're not willing to even pay for that, why should wotc care about your opinion?
an elite response un-needed and unrelated. MTGO is a secondary market to a secondary market and it holds no value at all in the real world. If that's your opinion why doen't WOTC just sell gold bordered power 9 cards. they're relatively worthless but the poor schmucks can still play in legacy.
It appears that Spikes that want to go eternal are the source of the whining of how much cards cost that are COLLECTABLE. yet nobody here is seeking to ban Tarmagoyf. It seems that the new players are all wanting to reprint duals because they're $40/$80 each and they don't have any, but Tarmagoyf at $90, BSA at $50 and Jace2.0 at $45 is okay because they've got those cards already.
Disclaimer - I already have my playsets of duals.
Your argument falls short in that they're not advocating you give them a playset of duals - they're advocating printing new ones so they can purchase them. Increasing supply if you will.
From what I've seen, theres still plenty of packs containing Goyfs, Jaces and BSAs floating around. People don't HAVE to go out and spend their money buying them - they can play pack lottery for them.
Legacy is in fact dying you might try understanding that.
What?
If anything, it has grown, clearly it has grown because the price of legacy staples have gone up. Sure it will hit a plateau one day, but Legacy isn't the ever changing/ever growing format like Standard is.
The reserve list has been in existence since 1996. Nothing really changed last night with the new policy.
A loosening of the reserve list is the best thing you guys could have hoped for and in fact the opposite happened.
However, none of that changes the fact that the dual lands and other legacy staples were going to rain down like candy any time soon.
Even if they abolished the reserve list it would take years for any significant number of legacy staples to be printed.
Did you guys really think they'd print a Master's Edition in paper sometime this year or something? That was never going to happen any time soon regardless of the reserve list policy last night or the one today.
As for the high costs standard cards you can still open any of them in a 4 dollar booster hence why it's not a huge deal. want a BSA spend 80 bucks on a box and likely open one plus lots of other good stuff.
While I totally agree, it's also to the advantage. I know plenty of newer players who traded for a ton of good old cards simply by drafting/playing sealed in current sets. There are PLENTY of older players who want new cards or are getting back into the game. So go get those "easy" to find BSA and Jaces... there is someone who will be more than happy to trade you a Mox Diamond + more for one.
If anything, it has grown, clearly it has grown because the price of legacy staples have gone up. Sure it will hit a plateau one day, but Legacy isn't the ever changing/ever growing format like Standard is.
The reserve list has been in existence since 1996. Nothing really changed last night with the new policy.
A loosening of the reserve list is the best thing you guys could have hoped for and in fact the opposite happened.
However, none of that changes the fact that the dual lands and other legacy staples were going to rain down like candy any time soon.
Even if they abolished the reserve list it would take years for any significant number of legacy staples to be printed.
Did you guys really think they'd print a Master's Edition in paper sometime this year or something? That was never going to happen any time soon regardless of the reserve list policy last night or the one today.
So what in the heck were people like you worried about then????
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
I don't understand why people care if they print their cards. They can print any card they want from Mercadian forward but take a few cards from literally months earlier and people complain about it.
I'm sorry I liked Judge Promos and I liked them doing stuff like this.. more of these cards need to be in circulation not less. They are just sealing Legacy's fate as a format that will slowly die. (IMO, price of cards is a major concern now than it was when I was getting into Legacy 5 or 6 years ago.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
an elite response un-needed and unrelated. MTGO is a secondary market to a secondary market and it holds no value at all in the real world. If that's your opinion why doen't WOTC just sell gold bordered power 9 cards. they're relatively worthless but the poor schmucks can still play in legacy.
From wotc's perspective mtgo is a primary market, they are the ones getting the revenue when you buy from the online store and play in online events. MaRo has even stated that mtgo is the future of magic (http://puremtgo.com/coverage/entries/2339). You can say all you want that they have no value, but there are thousands of people that disagree with you. A dollar bill is only worth as much goods and services as people are willing to exchange for it, not the paper it's printed on. Likewise, mtgo cards are worth the amount of money people are willing to spend on them, not the bits they are composed of. MTGO has been growing consistently and you have the opportunity to get into legacy cheaply now. Or, if you prefer, you can join a similar thread in a couple of years when mtgo is out of your price range.
1) Yes, it is not healthy at all, it really makes you wonder where's Magic is going
2) I heard about Magic around Kamigawa but I started playing it to the level I'm now around Alara. And the first thing I noticed was the reserved list.
They won't put any cards from Mercadian Masques on on the Reserved List. It says so on the document itself. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh, where designers make insane cards, let you wreck the meta for a while, and then ban the cards. Now new cards have to be well designed or else. Oh they made mistakes in Mirrodin block but overall no card since Masques deserves to be removed from ever being printed again.
Why not have every out-of-print card available for $1.00 apiece from Wizards' website, to maximize the accessibility of eternal formats?
I agree, this hyperbolic suggestion is exactly as ludicrous as the one I offered up. I think it's clear the correct answer is in the middle somewhere. However, I think my position is clearly much closer to that middle than yours is.
Maintaining the Reprint List doesn't just stop WotC from reprinting cards in easy-to-get ways that crash the values of the original printings; it also stops them from taking other steps to increase the supply and availability of older cards that do attempt to balance OOP card values with modern playability. It means no sneaking $7 OOP cards into decks, or creating a set number of 1000 "dual reprint" sets a year that are sold at a high (but stable) price, or starting to give out real reprinted Power for winning the Vintage World Championship instead of a painting.
it was likely a legal issue from higher ups, many companies make there living off of magic cards, and the corporation made a promise and if they went back on it they could be open to liability for damages.
There is absolutely no way that there is any legal or liability issue here. Magic cards are not and have never been sold with an explicit guarantee regarding their secondary-market value (the Reserved List definitely does not constitute one) and so their value will always be at the buyer's risk, regardless of what policies WotC does or does not take regarding them.
A possible solution to the vast gulf between those who own everything and those who just want to be able to play with the cards they have bought since 1998 or so would be to divide Legacy into a post-Urza's block Legacy, perhaps an extended extended, as it were, and to invent a new Rich Old Farts' Legacy, one we can call ROFL.
There, the wise savants of the Old Card World can play all of their duals, Mox Diamonds and Goblin Lyres to their hearts content, all the while talking about their moral superiority. They can listen to Red Barchetta on their mp3 players and have a great time. I know that I really enjoyed playing type 1.5 back when it allowed Mana Drains and Mana Crypts--really. It would be the format in which almost anything goes, much like current Legacy.
Those of use who are willing to use cards that could possibly be reprinted one day could play in a format that disallows all cards on the Reserved List. FoW and Sinkhole? Okay. Time Walk? No thanks. This would be a format that allows for a much larger player base, and would allow for any cards that get prohibitively costly to be reprinted without any violation of implied contract or other problems.
They can take my FBB Tropical Island out of my cold dead hand--but since I can't play with it without three more of them and a bunch of other $50+ cards, it'll just sit in my binder
I'm a collector, I own a complete set from Arabian nights to worldwake, including Portal series, Beatdown, Duel Decks, FTVs etc. And I'm so sad about this decision.
Those who upset about those reprints of the reserved cards, are not a collector but just a speculator (and maybe a very big retailers that also happens to own hasbro stocks).
Collectors would love to see those classic cards in the new frame and and especially with new art.
I'm glad to see wheel of fortune will be in a new fram at last, but so sad to know that we won't have the chance to see a better artwork Recurring nightmare, Orim samite healer or Eladamri, lord of leaves.
Oh well... if only they also put Sliver Queen on that list, together with Thawing and Wheel of fortune....
The truth is most of you guys compaining were happy a year ago playing standard and the like and you didnt give a rats ass about legacy. For those of us who have been playing for years its so annoying listening to you people whine about the cost of cards and how hard it is to get them. You either love the format or you dont. You either love the game or you dont. If you want to play a collectable card game and play some of its oldest cards you need to bite the bullet and shut it. But if you think about how much you spend each standard season and then have all your stuff rotate ever year what format costs the most? Wizards wants you to continue to buy new stuff not the 5 to 10 cards that make the cut for the eternal formats. The truth is Players who have all these older cards didnt just get them in a single year. Ive been playing since 1993 and Its taken me a long time to get the cards I have. If you want to play legacy build a budget deck, then start slowly buying the cards for the decks you want, eventually you will have the cards you want. People who started standard last year have to buy older cards to play extended. You dont hear them stomping their feet begging wizards to reprint chrome mox and tarmogoyf, and shock lands. Sometimes slowing getting something and causes you to enjoy and treasure it more. We need to stop acting like were all in line at Mcdonalds and relax a little. Remember its just a game and we should all just be enjoying it. Peace.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
currently playing: LEGACY loam/depthsBG Sneak showUR LED DredgeUBR ReanimatorUB landsBURG EDH DoranWBG JhoiraUR
So what in the heck were people like you worried about then????
You need to get it through your head not every thing is black and white.
My sole opinion in the entire thread was that printing reserve list cards in Duel Decks is over the line.
I don't have many at all of the cards that would potentially lose value. I don't own Dual Lands or Tabernacles or Mishra's Workshops or really anything else. I have a handful of ~$40 cards.
It is clear some people here expected/wanted/still want them to essentially sell every card ever made on the Wizard's website for $0.50.
I think mass devaluation of cards on the secondary market is not a good thing. Keeping prices in check, that is a good thing, destroying value is not.
1) Due a survey of current card prices, and remove any card valued under, say, $5. (or $10, or whatever).
2) Edit the policy that they will not print the cards for sale. They can reserve the right to limited printings of premium, tournament legal cards for prizes and things like the judge promos. (Set of Foil power 9 for World Champ anyone? Might be much, but something in that realm)
Yes... you got the point. Alpha/Beta are unique animals. Compared to those 2 sets, and AN/AQ/LN, every set is, as you put it, a "high print run counterpart."
I'm not sure what you meant to accomplish here but you essentially agreed to both my point and his and pretty much explained why the reserve list was put into place way back when in the first place.
Yes, other sets and releases can be considered "high print run counterparts" (even the DD, per your example) If diamond was put in some duel deck, it would have a higher print run(cheaper by rarity of release) and potentially new art(possibly less favorable[such as DD Garruk]) Also, we weren't just talking print run(That was a comparison specifically regarding the example of Rev duals, which isn't all that the reserved list covers that people are wanting reprinted), you also outlined the other factors that equate to a card's value on the secondary market. The better example for your case is what's happening, with a smaller print run FTV release that if given better artwork may become the more expensive option. Even so, mox diamond is still a viable card in the formats it's legal in, hence it being at it's value without having AB and AN scarcity.
Actually nothing about what I've posted validates or explains why the reserve list was concieved. WOTC got a lot of pissed off collectors when a bunch of crap dropped in value because Chronicles came out. Oh No! I don't see why so many think because Revelation isn't a money card because of a reprint that Vintage staples would plummet to dollar bin status. If Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper was printed back in Legends and then dropped from $10 to it's deserved $1 price tag(at Legends scarcity) it would seem foolish to speculate that far more playable cards that have been on constant upward slopes even without being in EXT and T2 should behave exactly the same.
There is absolutely no way that there is any legal or liability issue here. Magic cards are not and have never been sold with an explicit guarantee regarding their secondary-market value (the Reserved List definitely does not constitute one) and so their value will always be at the buyer's risk, regardless of what policies WotC does or does not take regarding them.
Um, there actually is a liability issue here. The reserved list was an official statement that materially affected secondary market value. The courts have well established in recent years that companies can be held liable for such statements. In fact, there were about 9 cases settled recently by Merrill Lynch (BoA) about the very issue of statements materially affecting secondary market value after the issue became clear.
I don't if this has been mentioned yet or knows while WotC will never "reprint" anything on the reserve they still are allowed to let's say come out with a "new" card that may have some or all of a "reserved" cards abilities. So let's see here imagine say card named "Lost Paradise" (pardon the unimaginative name) that is both a forest and an island. That would mean that in no way did they reprint a specific card. Welcome to business 101.
Um, there actually is a liability issue here. The reserved list was an official statement that materially affected secondary market value. The courts have well established in recent years that companies can be held liable for such statements. In fact, there were about 9 cases settled recently by Merrill Lynch (BoA) about the very issue of statements materially affecting secondary market value after the issue became clear.
Truly? If so, that's really sad.
Then again, they could always ban the cards from the format, which is completely within the right for them to do so. But wait! If they did, wouldn't that decrease the value of the said cards?!
Like I said before, the Reserved List is a bunch of bull and anyone who thinks it protects the value of their cards is a moron.
I don't if this has been mentioned yet or knows while WotC will never "reprint" anything on the reserve they still are allowed to let's say come out with a "new" card that may have some or all of a "reserved" cards abilities. So let's see here imagine say card named "Lost Paradise" (pardon the unimaginative name) that is both a forest and an island. That would mean that in no way did they reprint a specific card. Welcome to business 101.
People have suggested functional reprints. Other people have mentioned that the reserve list forbids functional reprints. Still other people have mentioned that with functional reprints, one could play 8 copies of a dual land. Yet other people have suggested shocklands. *shrug*
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Along with many mods, I've moved shop over to MTGNexus. Come check us out!
From wotc's perspective mtgo is a primary market, they are the ones getting the revenue when you buy from the online store and play in online events. MaRo has even stated that mtgo is the future of magic (http://puremtgo.com/coverage/entries/2339). You can say all you want that they have no value, but there are thousands of people that disagree with you. A dollar bill is only worth as much goods and services as people are willing to exchange for it, not the paper it's printed on. Likewise, mtgo cards are worth the amount of money people are willing to spend on them, not the bits they are composed of. MTGO has been growing consistently and you have the opportunity to get into legacy cheaply now. Or, if you prefer, you can join a similar thread in a couple of years when mtgo is out of your price range.
Maro's POV on this is mute since he's decided to hush up. He officially has no opinion on the matter. and MTGO needs to shape up incredibly if it ever wants to be as easy and fun as the paper game.
People have suggested functional reprints. Other people have mentioned that the reserve list forbids functional reprints. Still other people have mentioned that with functional reprints, one could play 8 copies of a dual land. Yet other people have suggested shocklands. *shrug*
The policy forbids cards that are functional reprints (Same mana cost and abilities, so a new Mountain Forest with no drawback is not allowed).
I again stand and reason that making them Mythic and explaining what they are in the ads would raise sales and allow people new to the game to see the old game-breaking cards. Heck, having a Black Lotus as a Mythic would make sure that it is the best selling set that Wizards EVER produced... Yes it would impact the price of the older Black Lotus cards, but not by a huge number. It would also allow cards that are being lost to damage and age to be replaced with a viable option. And with the cards that people are seeking to reprint, a Mythic every 5-6 years reprint of them would not even flood the market.
A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness.
From my reading of this from their new policy, it would seem that WotC could make a new version of Pixie Queen (to pick a card at random), with the same cost, the same power and toughness, and the same abilities, as long as it had a different name, like Queen Bee, and a different subtype, such as Insect.
I can't recall if a difference in subtype was allowed before. Is this different than the previous Reserve List policy? I know the general use of "functional reprint" ignores things like creature sub-types, but it would seem that their reprint policy includes it.
I'm a collector, I own a complete set from Arabian nights to worldwake, including Portal series, Beatdown, Duel Decks, FTVs etc. And I'm so sad about this decision.
Those who upset about those reprints of the reserved cards, are not a collector but just a speculator (and maybe a very big retailers that also happens to own hasbro stocks).
Collectors would love to see those classic cards in the new frame and and especially with new art.
I'm glad to see wheel of fortune will be in a new fram at last, but so sad to know that we won't have the chance to see a better artwork Recurring nightmare, Orim samite healer or Eladamri, lord of leaves.
Oh well... if only they also put Sliver Queen on that list, together with Thawing and Wheel of fortune....
Wow, someone who actually collects cards for some sort of aesthetic value? From what I'd read from most collectors in this thread, primarily one's hailing this ill announcement, it seemed as though all of the "collectors" were actually more invested in buying cards only to sell them again, or to sit around in smoking jackets sipping brandy while discussing how wonderful it is to own cards worth a lot of money.
My problem with this announcement is how sudden it is on the heels of the more recent announcement about the reprinting of cards such as Phyrexian Negator and Masticore. This was done with much less tact than the gradual rolling back of more and more reprints from the reserved list we'd been seeing. If a company is going to announce a significant policy change that will anger a large part of their customer base (which this clearly has), it is very, very bad to unveil it as fast as a slap in the face.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DITS!
Mr. Jiggles comin' to town and gonna take you on down to the hootenanny, so y'all best be lookin' out for a good, jiggly time.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Dude I have no problem with your and no problem with older players liking their collections but MAGIC thinking they are what's keeping magic going alone is silly and since Legacy is in fact dying you might try understanding that.
As for the high costs standard cards you can still open any of them in a 4 dollar booster hence why it's not a huge deal. want a BSA spend 80 bucks on a box and likely open one plus lots of other good stuff.
if Magic does premium reprints of your cards it won't harm their value since they can't instantly age them 12 years. What it will do is increase the advance magic players interest in eternal formats and in fact raise the value of your old cards. Without a reprint policy though nothing changes and your cards become older and more redundant since no one will pay 40+ dollars for a card in a format few play.
When goyf rotates out of extended his price can do anything but teh truth is more people can play goyf in more formats because he's newer hence a high price. You can only sue duals in legacy the only reason they are expensive is because they are rarer than goyf.
Like I said lets get everyone who loves the reserved list so much in their own format and let legacy become as popular as extended.
an elite response un-needed and unrelated. MTGO is a secondary market to a secondary market and it holds no value at all in the real world. If that's your opinion why doen't WOTC just sell gold bordered power 9 cards. they're relatively worthless but the poor schmucks can still play in legacy.
Disclaimer - I already have my playsets of duals.
Your argument falls short in that they're not advocating you give them a playset of duals - they're advocating printing new ones so they can purchase them. Increasing supply if you will.
From what I've seen, theres still plenty of packs containing Goyfs, Jaces and BSAs floating around. People don't HAVE to go out and spend their money buying them - they can play pack lottery for them.
What?
If anything, it has grown, clearly it has grown because the price of legacy staples have gone up. Sure it will hit a plateau one day, but Legacy isn't the ever changing/ever growing format like Standard is.
The reserve list has been in existence since 1996. Nothing really changed last night with the new policy.
A loosening of the reserve list is the best thing you guys could have hoped for and in fact the opposite happened.
However, none of that changes the fact that the dual lands and other legacy staples were going to rain down like candy any time soon.
Even if they abolished the reserve list it would take years for any significant number of legacy staples to be printed.
Did you guys really think they'd print a Master's Edition in paper sometime this year or something? That was never going to happen any time soon regardless of the reserve list policy last night or the one today.
While I totally agree, it's also to the advantage. I know plenty of newer players who traded for a ton of good old cards simply by drafting/playing sealed in current sets. There are PLENTY of older players who want new cards or are getting back into the game. So go get those "easy" to find BSA and Jaces... there is someone who will be more than happy to trade you a Mox Diamond + more for one.
So what in the heck were people like you worried about then????
I'm sorry I liked Judge Promos and I liked them doing stuff like this.. more of these cards need to be in circulation not less. They are just sealing Legacy's fate as a format that will slowly die. (IMO, price of cards is a major concern now than it was when I was getting into Legacy 5 or 6 years ago.)
Watch Play Read
Twitter
From wotc's perspective mtgo is a primary market, they are the ones getting the revenue when you buy from the online store and play in online events. MaRo has even stated that mtgo is the future of magic (http://puremtgo.com/coverage/entries/2339). You can say all you want that they have no value, but there are thousands of people that disagree with you. A dollar bill is only worth as much goods and services as people are willing to exchange for it, not the paper it's printed on. Likewise, mtgo cards are worth the amount of money people are willing to spend on them, not the bits they are composed of. MTGO has been growing consistently and you have the opportunity to get into legacy cheaply now. Or, if you prefer, you can join a similar thread in a couple of years when mtgo is out of your price range.
They won't put any cards from Mercadian Masques on on the Reserved List. It says so on the document itself. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh, where designers make insane cards, let you wreck the meta for a while, and then ban the cards. Now new cards have to be well designed or else. Oh they made mistakes in Mirrodin block but overall no card since Masques deserves to be removed from ever being printed again.
I agree, this hyperbolic suggestion is exactly as ludicrous as the one I offered up. I think it's clear the correct answer is in the middle somewhere. However, I think my position is clearly much closer to that middle than yours is.
Maintaining the Reprint List doesn't just stop WotC from reprinting cards in easy-to-get ways that crash the values of the original printings; it also stops them from taking other steps to increase the supply and availability of older cards that do attempt to balance OOP card values with modern playability. It means no sneaking $7 OOP cards into decks, or creating a set number of 1000 "dual reprint" sets a year that are sold at a high (but stable) price, or starting to give out real reprinted Power for winning the Vintage World Championship instead of a painting.
There is absolutely no way that there is any legal or liability issue here. Magic cards are not and have never been sold with an explicit guarantee regarding their secondary-market value (the Reserved List definitely does not constitute one) and so their value will always be at the buyer's risk, regardless of what policies WotC does or does not take regarding them.
There, the wise savants of the Old Card World can play all of their duals, Mox Diamonds and Goblin Lyres to their hearts content, all the while talking about their moral superiority. They can listen to Red Barchetta on their mp3 players and have a great time. I know that I really enjoyed playing type 1.5 back when it allowed Mana Drains and Mana Crypts--really. It would be the format in which almost anything goes, much like current Legacy.
Those of use who are willing to use cards that could possibly be reprinted one day could play in a format that disallows all cards on the Reserved List. FoW and Sinkhole? Okay. Time Walk? No thanks. This would be a format that allows for a much larger player base, and would allow for any cards that get prohibitively costly to be reprinted without any violation of implied contract or other problems.
They can take my FBB Tropical Island out of my cold dead hand--but since I can't play with it without three more of them and a bunch of other $50+ cards, it'll just sit in my binder
I'm a collector, I own a complete set from Arabian nights to worldwake, including Portal series, Beatdown, Duel Decks, FTVs etc. And I'm so sad about this decision.
Those who upset about those reprints of the reserved cards, are not a collector but just a speculator (and maybe a very big retailers that also happens to own hasbro stocks).
Collectors would love to see those classic cards in the new frame and and especially with new art.
I'm glad to see wheel of fortune will be in a new fram at last, but so sad to know that we won't have the chance to see a better artwork Recurring nightmare, Orim samite healer or Eladamri, lord of leaves.
Oh well... if only they also put Sliver Queen on that list, together with Thawing and Wheel of fortune....
currently playing:
LEGACY
loam/depthsBG
Sneak showUR
LED DredgeUBR
ReanimatorUB
landsBURG
EDH
DoranWBG
JhoiraUR
You need to get it through your head not every thing is black and white.
My sole opinion in the entire thread was that printing reserve list cards in Duel Decks is over the line.
I don't have many at all of the cards that would potentially lose value. I don't own Dual Lands or Tabernacles or Mishra's Workshops or really anything else. I have a handful of ~$40 cards.
It is clear some people here expected/wanted/still want them to essentially sell every card ever made on the Wizard's website for $0.50.
I think mass devaluation of cards on the secondary market is not a good thing. Keeping prices in check, that is a good thing, destroying value is not.
1) Due a survey of current card prices, and remove any card valued under, say, $5. (or $10, or whatever).
2) Edit the policy that they will not print the cards for sale. They can reserve the right to limited printings of premium, tournament legal cards for prizes and things like the judge promos. (Set of Foil power 9 for World Champ anyone? Might be much, but something in that realm)
Yes, other sets and releases can be considered "high print run counterparts" (even the DD, per your example) If diamond was put in some duel deck, it would have a higher print run(cheaper by rarity of release) and potentially new art(possibly less favorable[such as DD Garruk]) Also, we weren't just talking print run(That was a comparison specifically regarding the example of Rev duals, which isn't all that the reserved list covers that people are wanting reprinted), you also outlined the other factors that equate to a card's value on the secondary market. The better example for your case is what's happening, with a smaller print run FTV release that if given better artwork may become the more expensive option. Even so, mox diamond is still a viable card in the formats it's legal in, hence it being at it's value without having AB and AN scarcity.
Actually nothing about what I've posted validates or explains why the reserve list was concieved. WOTC got a lot of pissed off collectors when a bunch of crap dropped in value because Chronicles came out. Oh No! I don't see why so many think because Revelation isn't a money card because of a reprint that Vintage staples would plummet to dollar bin status. If Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper was printed back in Legends and then dropped from $10 to it's deserved $1 price tag(at Legends scarcity) it would seem foolish to speculate that far more playable cards that have been on constant upward slopes even without being in EXT and T2 should behave exactly the same.
Um, there actually is a liability issue here. The reserved list was an official statement that materially affected secondary market value. The courts have well established in recent years that companies can be held liable for such statements. In fact, there were about 9 cases settled recently by Merrill Lynch (BoA) about the very issue of statements materially affecting secondary market value after the issue became clear.
Truly? If so, that's really sad.
Then again, they could always ban the cards from the format, which is completely within the right for them to do so. But wait! If they did, wouldn't that decrease the value of the said cards?!
Like I said before, the Reserved List is a bunch of bull and anyone who thinks it protects the value of their cards is a moron.
People have suggested functional reprints. Other people have mentioned that the reserve list forbids functional reprints. Still other people have mentioned that with functional reprints, one could play 8 copies of a dual land. Yet other people have suggested shocklands. *shrug*
Maro's POV on this is mute since he's decided to hush up. He officially has no opinion on the matter. and MTGO needs to shape up incredibly if it ever wants to be as easy and fun as the paper game.
The policy forbids cards that are functional reprints (Same mana cost and abilities, so a new Mountain Forest with no drawback is not allowed).
I again stand and reason that making them Mythic and explaining what they are in the ads would raise sales and allow people new to the game to see the old game-breaking cards. Heck, having a Black Lotus as a Mythic would make sure that it is the best selling set that Wizards EVER produced... Yes it would impact the price of the older Black Lotus cards, but not by a huge number. It would also allow cards that are being lost to damage and age to be replaced with a viable option. And with the cards that people are seeking to reprint, a Mythic every 5-6 years reprint of them would not even flood the market.
From my reading of this from their new policy, it would seem that WotC could make a new version of Pixie Queen (to pick a card at random), with the same cost, the same power and toughness, and the same abilities, as long as it had a different name, like Queen Bee, and a different subtype, such as Insect.
I can't recall if a difference in subtype was allowed before. Is this different than the previous Reserve List policy? I know the general use of "functional reprint" ignores things like creature sub-types, but it would seem that their reprint policy includes it.
Wow, someone who actually collects cards for some sort of aesthetic value? From what I'd read from most collectors in this thread, primarily one's hailing this ill announcement, it seemed as though all of the "collectors" were actually more invested in buying cards only to sell them again, or to sit around in smoking jackets sipping brandy while discussing how wonderful it is to own cards worth a lot of money.
My problem with this announcement is how sudden it is on the heels of the more recent announcement about the reprinting of cards such as Phyrexian Negator and Masticore. This was done with much less tact than the gradual rolling back of more and more reprints from the reserved list we'd been seeing. If a company is going to announce a significant policy change that will anger a large part of their customer base (which this clearly has), it is very, very bad to unveil it as fast as a slap in the face.
Mr. Jiggles comin' to town and gonna take you on down to the hootenanny, so y'all best be lookin' out for a good, jiggly time.