I feel the urge to make a deck for this, but there's so many options I have no clue where to start...
I kind of want to remake my old Ko-Ko Puffs deck though, but that would most likely be too slow in this format which is insane because the deck's relatively fast.
Zoo is so dirty in this format. That's what I'll be playing.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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See that's what gets me. I get the artifact lands being banned and the Jitte. But sword and the golgari troll? Were these overpowered when they were in standard?
This format is basically old extended as a eternal format. Troll is banned because dredge is potentially back breaking in this format. Top's banning is due to countertop. they've sufficently nerfed affinity. the biggest question mark here is that Hypergenesis isn't on this banned list.
the initial meta for this format looks like Hypergenesis, Punishing grove zoo, and possibly treehouse as a answer to punnishing grove zoo.
the biggest question mark here is that Hypergenesis isn't on this banned list.
the initial meta for this format looks like Hypergenesis, Punishing grove zoo, and possibly treehouse as a answer to punnishing grove zoo.
There is a lot of fear about Hypergenesis in this format, and most of it is unwarranted. The deck has quite a few weaknesses that most other archetypes can exploit. These include, but are not limited to, turn 1 or 2 Duress/Thoughtseize/Inquisition, Chalice of the Void at 0, countermagic (Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Cryptic Command, Negate), Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon, Meddling Mage, and a variety of other options.
Also, HG is not as consistently explosive and unbeatable as are other decks. With an optimal hand, sure, it can effectively establish a turn 3 win. But in many games, with its lack of low mana hand fixers that other combo decks rely on, HG can be its own worst enemy. I played HG for months, and I had many frustrating games where my hand or my creatures in it were just not good enough to establish a dominant board position.
The deck will definitely be a contender, but there are many tools to stop it. It will not be broken, and it will be a healthy addition to the format.
This format is basically old extended as a eternal format. Troll is banned because dredge is potentially back breaking in this format. Top's banning is due to countertop. they've sufficently nerfed affinity. the biggest question mark here is that Hypergenesis isn't on this banned list.
the initial meta for this format looks like Hypergenesis, Punishing grove zoo, and possibly treehouse as a answer to punnishing grove zoo.
Top is not banned because of Counter-Top, it's banned because it made games go way too long in Extended. In Legacy it wasn't as big an issue because the format is a little quicker.
I dont think that Dredge is 'backbreaking' but it was ALWAYS around, and Ive read numerous articles about how Wizards doesn't like that deck. With the proper hate, its a very good matchup, but people always had to have sideboard hate for it, and when people stopped putting in hate, then it would come out of nowhere and win again.
People need to remember that not all bannings are due to power level.
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
There is a lot of fear about Hypergenesis in this format, and most of it is unwarranted. The deck has quite a few weaknesses that most other archetypes can exploit. These include, but are not limited to, turn 1 or 2 Duress/Thoughtseize/Inquisition, Chalice of the Void at 0, countermagic (Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Cryptic Command, Negate), Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon, Meddling Mage, and a variety of other options.
Also, HG is not as consistently explosive and unbeatable as are other decks. With an optimal hand, sure, it can effectively establish a turn 3 win. But in many games, with its lack of low mana hand fixers that other combo decks rely on, HG can be its own worst enemy. I played HG for months, and I had many frustrating games where my hand or my creatures in it were just not good enough to establish a dominant board position.
The deck will definitely be a contender, but there are many tools to stop it. It will not be broken, and it will be a healthy addition to the format.
-ktkenshinx-
While most of what you said is quite true, Channcelor of the Annex is going to make the deck a little bit better, and a lot more annoying.
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Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
I dont think that Dredge is 'backbreaking' but it was ALWAYS around, and Ive read numerous articles about how Wizards doesn't like that deck. With the proper hate, its a very good matchup, but people always had to have sideboard hate for it, and when people stopped putting in hate, then it would come out of nowhere and win again.
I agree that Dredge is certainly one of the omnipresent boogymen of any format it inhabits. But this format is really an exception to this. Even without the Troll banning, Dredge just loses so darn much from its core decklist that it needs to undergo major changes to remain viable. Here is a list of what Dredge loses from its optimal incarnation:
A lot of those cards are impossible to replace in the current Modern metagame. Even with GGT still around, Dredge just loses all of its early game explosiveness from the Odyseey Block graveyard/discard cards. GGT could safely be unbanned to create a far slower and far more tame version of Dredge than currently exists in Legacy, or than ever existed in any metagame.
All decks are going to have some kind of graveyard hatred in their sideboards. The newer version of Dredge (with GGT but without all of its most important explosive components) would be the right speed to compete in the Modern metagame.
Dredge existed (and won) several MAJOR tournaments without Onslaught cards, and all of the cards you mentioned.
They still have dread return into Iona, off of Bridge from Below, with Narcomoeba and Bloodghast.
Legacy Dredge and Extended Dredge had slightly different game plans.
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This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
Im pretty sure if they decide to make Modern Magic a supported format IE GP in a couple of years using modern magic. WoTC will reprint the onslaught fetchlands for many reasons 1 because the whole reason for the format is basicly to have a pseudo eternal that dodges the reserved list and keeps prices of Multideck staples in check. 2 because fetchlands are not overpowerful in standard. 3 fetchlands sell packs, one of the biggest reasons zendikar sold well was because of fetchlands... Sets selling well is a good thing for WoTC. It might not happen right away but it will happen.
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Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Im pretty sure if they decide to make Modern Magic a supported format IE GP in a couple of years using modern magic. WoTC will reprint the onslaught fetchlands for many reasons 1 because the whole reason for the format is basicly to have a pseudo eternal that dodges the reserved list and keeps prices of Multideck staples in check. 2 because fetchlands are not overpowerful in standard. 3 fetchlands sell packs, one of the biggest reasons zendikar sold well was because of fetchlands... Sets selling well is a good thing for WoTC. It might not happen right away but it will happen.
There's not a huge need form them as long as the Zendikar fetches are around though. With Zendikar fetches, Rav duals, and Reflecting Pool, just about any single manabase can be supported.
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This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
Well its "modern" with the modern card frames , but does that mean that its an eternal format?
An 'Eternal' format is a format that never rotates its cards. That would make Modern an Eternal format.
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This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
The link in the first post of the thread clearly states which sets are legal. "Modern Frames Format" is just a cute mental short-cut to help remember what's legal.
Asking if Mishra's Factory is legal is like asking if Counterspell is legal in Standard because it was in Jace vs Chandra. It's obviously not.
Definitely not in this thread, but I'd like to have a forum for this format where we can post decklists and talk about other stuff regarding this format.
They should have started with IPA since it's the first block released in MTGO, lots of people started their collection from IPA up. And they might be able to bring some old timers back with this, now that their collection is worth somethings.
I totally love the idea of this format, if this does become a sanctioned eternal format, I would totally start playing it.
Overall, I agree with the ban-list, Affinity isn't nearly as busted without the artifact lands, same with Dredge without the Troll, and I think nerfing those two decks is a must if this format is going to go anywhere.
The only problem I could have with this is the possibility that it'll kill Extended, not that I'm really happy with Extended, but I think that Extended can thrive if we get some diversity in the format.
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I haven't changed by signature since Mirrodin Besieged spoilers started!
Extended has too many stigmas attached to it to really ever attract enough players to keep it healthy. Because of that, I'm pretty sure Modern is WOTC testing the waters to see if players are interested in a new format acting as a rebooted version of Extended, without having to call it Extended (a smart move).
Solid ban list, good looking format so far.
AND I think I could even whip up a semi decent deck...
Good call Wizards.
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
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Zoo is so dirty in this format. That's what I'll be playing.
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Yes, I know. I am still stuck in a Standard mindset, and keep imagining this as closer to Extended, when in reality it is closer to Legacy.
I'll be damn glad to take out the old Tarmogoyf's without needing a Legacy manabase.
This format is basically old extended as a eternal format. Troll is banned because dredge is potentially back breaking in this format. Top's banning is due to countertop. they've sufficently nerfed affinity. the biggest question mark here is that Hypergenesis isn't on this banned list.
the initial meta for this format looks like Hypergenesis, Punishing grove zoo, and possibly treehouse as a answer to punnishing grove zoo.
There is a lot of fear about Hypergenesis in this format, and most of it is unwarranted. The deck has quite a few weaknesses that most other archetypes can exploit. These include, but are not limited to, turn 1 or 2 Duress/Thoughtseize/Inquisition, Chalice of the Void at 0, countermagic (Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Cryptic Command, Negate), Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon, Meddling Mage, and a variety of other options.
Also, HG is not as consistently explosive and unbeatable as are other decks. With an optimal hand, sure, it can effectively establish a turn 3 win. But in many games, with its lack of low mana hand fixers that other combo decks rely on, HG can be its own worst enemy. I played HG for months, and I had many frustrating games where my hand or my creatures in it were just not good enough to establish a dominant board position.
The deck will definitely be a contender, but there are many tools to stop it. It will not be broken, and it will be a healthy addition to the format.
-ktkenshinx-
Top is not banned because of Counter-Top, it's banned because it made games go way too long in Extended. In Legacy it wasn't as big an issue because the format is a little quicker.
I dont think that Dredge is 'backbreaking' but it was ALWAYS around, and Ive read numerous articles about how Wizards doesn't like that deck. With the proper hate, its a very good matchup, but people always had to have sideboard hate for it, and when people stopped putting in hate, then it would come out of nowhere and win again.
People need to remember that not all bannings are due to power level.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
While most of what you said is quite true, Channcelor of the Annex is going to make the deck a little bit better, and a lot more annoying.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
I agree that Dredge is certainly one of the omnipresent boogymen of any format it inhabits. But this format is really an exception to this. Even without the Troll banning, Dredge just loses so darn much from its core decklist that it needs to undergo major changes to remain viable. Here is a list of what Dredge loses from its optimal incarnation:
-Careful Study
-Putrid Imp (Major loss)
-Tireless Tribe
-Breakthrough
-Ichorid
-Cabal Therapy (MAJOR loss)
-Lion's Eye Diamond (Major loss)
-Cephalid Coliseum (ENORMOUS LOSS)
A lot of those cards are impossible to replace in the current Modern metagame. Even with GGT still around, Dredge just loses all of its early game explosiveness from the Odyseey Block graveyard/discard cards. GGT could safely be unbanned to create a far slower and far more tame version of Dredge than currently exists in Legacy, or than ever existed in any metagame.
All decks are going to have some kind of graveyard hatred in their sideboards. The newer version of Dredge (with GGT but without all of its most important explosive components) would be the right speed to compete in the Modern metagame.
-ktkenshinx-
They still have dread return into Iona, off of Bridge from Below, with Narcomoeba and Bloodghast.
Legacy Dredge and Extended Dredge had slightly different game plans.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Im pretty sure if they decide to make Modern Magic a supported format IE GP in a couple of years using modern magic. WoTC will reprint the onslaught fetchlands for many reasons 1 because the whole reason for the format is basicly to have a pseudo eternal that dodges the reserved list and keeps prices of Multideck staples in check. 2 because fetchlands are not overpowerful in standard. 3 fetchlands sell packs, one of the biggest reasons zendikar sold well was because of fetchlands... Sets selling well is a good thing for WoTC. It might not happen right away but it will happen.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
There's not a huge need form them as long as the Zendikar fetches are around though. With Zendikar fetches, Rav duals, and Reflecting Pool, just about any single manabase can be supported.
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
So many possible decks.
An 'Eternal' format is a format that never rotates its cards. That would make Modern an Eternal format.
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Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
I know what an eternal format is lol
but i just asked since quite a few people are relating this to extended.
Asking if Mishra's Factory is legal is like asking if Counterspell is legal in Standard because it was in Jace vs Chandra. It's obviously not.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Definitely.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Overall, I agree with the ban-list, Affinity isn't nearly as busted without the artifact lands, same with Dredge without the Troll, and I think nerfing those two decks is a must if this format is going to go anywhere.
The only problem I could have with this is the possibility that it'll kill Extended, not that I'm really happy with Extended, but I think that Extended can thrive if we get some diversity in the format.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Cube 360 cards, unpowered.
Modern:
URStormUR
Block
RWHumansRW
URGStalkerURG
AND I think I could even whip up a semi decent deck...
Good call Wizards.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2