I do not own a store or sell Magic singles, but just thinking about all the retailers who were so happy to buy another box of WWK last week as WOTC had made it seem so special that this is the last of the wholesale supply, then 3 days later they announced the 2 most wanted cards from the set are banned. Now that box of WWK would just sit on most store's shelves unless you're trying to get a what, a Creeping Tar Pit?
I do not own a store or sell Magic singles, but just thinking about all the retailers who were so happy to buy another box of WWK last week as WOTC had made it seem so special that this is the last of the wholesale supply, then 3 days later they announced the 2 most wanted cards from the set are banned. Now that box of WWK would just sit on most store's shelves unless you're trying to get a what, a Creeping Tar Pit?
I'd be happy to buy a box of worldwake and man lands, jaces and stoneforges for my legacy and extended decks.
Until something you play with gets arbitrarily banned from extended... trust me... new/modern extended can't support the power level of those two cards.
I do not own a store or sell Magic singles, but just thinking about all the retailers who were so happy to buy another box of WWK last week as WOTC had made it seem so special that this is the last of the wholesale supply, then 3 days later they announced the 2 most wanted cards from the set are banned. Now that box of WWK would just sit on most store's shelves unless you're trying to get a what, a Creeping Tar Pit?
Why is this bad business ethics?
They didn't cheat buyers. The banning only serves one format. You can always play another format, or ignore whatever B&R lists that exists and play casual.
Its not even a bad business decision. The reason why cards are banned is because players are complaining about them. The B&R lists exist to make players happier. If anything, I bet wizards would like to do away with them entirely.
What it _is_ reflective of is bad R&D and bad playtesting, which has little to do with ethics.
The banning is probably better for stores then keeping the standard meta stale.
-It keeps people playing the game
-Caw player buy new decks/cards to replace jtms and sfm
-long term buyers are going to buy jace in a week or 2 when the price drops then sell it when its price gets back to insane hights.
-worldwake alread sold much more then it should have.
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You use a pain land? Okay, I am now "winning" DEAL WITH THAT
If you cant kill a planeswalker, you are not playing magic.
Hopefully any "loss" from a very popular product sitting on the shelves is made up by a gain in tournament attendance.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Unless Wizards signed an agreement with retailers that they wouldn't ban a card that was still up for sale, then they didn't really break any agreements here.
People know that good cards can get banned or unbanned, restricted or unrestricted...it's just something that happens. Wizards was very smart to carefully give an exception to the event deck so retailers wouldn't be totally blasted with the banning on that front, but either way this stuff is a risk and Worldwake will still sell for many reasons.
The thing that bugs me the most is the fact that at some point, at least a couple people consciously made the decision that they were going to release the event decks before they were going to ban Stoneforge. You cannot tell me that within the 3 days following the release, Wizards decided it was too powerful to not ban. They actively and knowingly decided to protect sales of the event decks, and then ban him after the release. Also I find it pretty convenient that the ban happens just before the m12 release, which will sell more now that Val is rising again, and the Titan cycle will become dominant for at least a 2 month period.
U SO SNEAKY WIZARDS
tl;dr
Wizards elects to hold off on the ban of SFM/JTMS until after the NP Event decks are released, protecting the massive sales of one deck
Wizards bans SFM after the release
The ban of SFM/JTMS breath new life into the TItan cycle, setting themselves up for a more profitable m12 release
Wizards acts on damage control and says that you may play with SFM if you play only with the event deck, knowing that a majority of the players that purchased it knew it was a jank deck, and bought it obtain a chase rare set
It's not like it was a secret that any changes to the banned list would be announced on June 20th. That's when the banned/restricted announcement is made. It was well-established ahead of time and everyone knew. There's nothing sneaky about it.
No one was forced to buy anything before June 20th.
It's not like it was a secret that any changes to the banned list would be announced on June 20th. That's when the banned/restricted announcement is made. It was well-established ahead of time and everyone knew. There's nothing sneaky about it.
No one was forced to buy anything before June 20th.
Yes we know when it will be released, what I was saying is that Wizards had known that they were releasing a soon-to-be-banned chase card to the ignorant public. Instead of taking a moral route (I don't know, delaying the release until today, announcing the banned list early) and saving a lot of face, they elected to release it to a mystic hungry public that would eat it up. 3 days after players rejoice that they were finally able to get a playset to play with, finally able to afford it. BANHAMMA! Now those players are left with cards they cannot use without playing jank. Bad-mfing-business
I bought the event decks for the SFM's, I'm not upset at the banning or that I made the purchase, but I know a few players that feel screwed out of their money right now.
Banned and Restricted lists are not done with the secondary market in mind. They are done for the health of any given format. Sometimes (and almost always this is with Vintage) they completely whiff and restrict or ban cards that have no reason to be, I don't feel this was the case with the Stoneforge and Jace bannings. Jace is simply broken, and if you try to counter that argument you are only fooling yourself. Stoneforge is amazing, as tutoring even a Sword is great, and of course, turn three Batterskull is stupid.
And if you want to play decks that have Stoneforges, turn 3 Batterskulls, and JTMS, you can still play Legacy, I hear that combination of cards is pretty good in Legacy
There's been talk about banning Jace and Stoneforge for a while now. If a retailer wanted to roll the dice and gamble that those cards weren't going to get banned, then he got burned. But it's okay, there are still Jaces and Stoneforges in those packs!
3 days after players rejoice that they were finally able to get a playset to play with, finally able to afford it. BANHAMMA! Now those players are left with cards they cannot use without playing jank. Bad-mfing-business
I'm not following your math. The event decks were released on 6/10, in time for Game Day and the banning occurred on 6/20. That makes 10 days by my count, not 3...
I'm not following your math. The event decks were released on 6/10, in time for Game Day and the banning occurred on 6/20. That makes 10 days by my count, not 3...
Haha that's because my math was terrible, I had the commander release in my head for some reason. You're 100% correct.
Until something you play with gets arbitrarily banned from extended... trust me... new/modern extended can't support the power level of those two cards.
Oh ho ho ho ho ho.
Stoneforge and Jace aren't even close to being the scariest things in Modern/Extended.
Until something you play with gets arbitrarily banned from extended... trust me... new/modern extended can't support the power level of those two cards.
jund vs. caw-blade? jund will roflstomp dat ****. the only card is kinda annoying against jund is sword of feast and famine.
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it was bad buisness for wizards to build a broken format by printing two vastly over powered cards, and they've already admitted that. it was good buisness to bite the bullet and ban the trouble-makers, rescuing a format and ultimately boosting sales for themselves and their distributors.
The thing that bugs me the most is the fact that at some point, at least a couple people consciously made the decision that they were going to release the event decks before they were going to ban Stoneforge. You cannot tell me that within the 3 days following the release, Wizards decided it was too powerful to not ban. They actively and knowingly decided to protect sales of the event decks, and then ban him after the release. Also I find it pretty convenient that the ban happens just before the m12 release, which will sell more now that Val is rising again, and the Titan cycle will become dominant for at least a 2 month period.
U SO SNEAKY WIZARDS
tl;dr
Wizards elects to hold off on the ban of SFM/JTMS until after the NP Event decks are released, protecting the massive sales of one deck
Wizards bans SFM after the release
The ban of SFM/JTMS breath new life into the TItan cycle, setting themselves up for a more profitable m12 release
Wizards acts on damage control and says that you may play with SFM if you play only with the event deck, knowing that a majority of the players that purchased it knew it was a jank deck, and bought it obtain a chase rare set
Wizards has a schedule for when they ban cards. They followed that schedule. This was the first chance for them to ban cards in Standard since March. Its not some grand conspiracy.
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
What would of happened when Jace rotated in a few months? Prices of Jace/Mystic would have gone down. This just expedited that.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
I don't mind that that I have a playset of JMS and Stoneforges and they got banned, But, the big joke on me was I bought an event deck. I was feeling pretty confident that Wizards wouldn't print a product just to ban cards from it. Looks like you got me again WOTC, hehehe.
Ya know, I almost forgot to order my box of WWK today, I called my rep back to actually order the box, realizing I would have to pay extra shipping just to get the box sent (was too late to add it to the other order) and was HAPPY to do that, because I want the box so bad...
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Or you play a format other than Standard.
Hopefully now they can save the boxes for some nostalgia drafts in the future, or just sell them to people who play extended or legacy.
Until something you play with gets arbitrarily banned from extended... trust me... new/modern extended can't support the power level of those two cards.
Why is this bad business ethics?
They didn't cheat buyers. The banning only serves one format. You can always play another format, or ignore whatever B&R lists that exists and play casual.
Its not even a bad business decision. The reason why cards are banned is because players are complaining about them. The B&R lists exist to make players happier. If anything, I bet wizards would like to do away with them entirely.
What it _is_ reflective of is bad R&D and bad playtesting, which has little to do with ethics.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
-It keeps people playing the game
-Caw player buy new decks/cards to replace jtms and sfm
-long term buyers are going to buy jace in a week or 2 when the price drops then sell it when its price gets back to insane hights.
-worldwake alread sold much more then it should have.
If you cant kill a planeswalker, you are not playing magic.
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This!! i'm looking forward to my 1st fnm in a while where i dont have to deal with jace or stoneforge and caw-blade.
People know that good cards can get banned or unbanned, restricted or unrestricted...it's just something that happens. Wizards was very smart to carefully give an exception to the event deck so retailers wouldn't be totally blasted with the banning on that front, but either way this stuff is a risk and Worldwake will still sell for many reasons.
U SO SNEAKY WIZARDS
tl;dr
No one was forced to buy anything before June 20th.
Yes we know when it will be released, what I was saying is that Wizards had known that they were releasing a soon-to-be-banned chase card to the ignorant public. Instead of taking a moral route (I don't know, delaying the release until today, announcing the banned list early) and saving a lot of face, they elected to release it to a mystic hungry public that would eat it up. 3 days after players rejoice that they were finally able to get a playset to play with, finally able to afford it. BANHAMMA! Now those players are left with cards they cannot use without playing jank. Bad-mfing-business
I bought the event decks for the SFM's, I'm not upset at the banning or that I made the purchase, but I know a few players that feel screwed out of their money right now.
And if you want to play decks that have Stoneforges, turn 3 Batterskulls, and JTMS, you can still play Legacy, I hear that combination of cards is pretty good in Legacy
I'm not following your math. The event decks were released on 6/10, in time for Game Day and the banning occurred on 6/20. That makes 10 days by my count, not 3...
Haha that's because my math was terrible, I had the commander release in my head for some reason. You're 100% correct.
Oh ho ho ho ho ho.
Stoneforge and Jace aren't even close to being the scariest things in Modern/Extended.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
jund vs. caw-blade? jund will roflstomp dat ****. the only card is kinda annoying against jund is sword of feast and famine.
Like anime? My AnimeList Profile: zero_99
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Wizards has a schedule for when they ban cards. They followed that schedule. This was the first chance for them to ban cards in Standard since March. Its not some grand conspiracy.
Can't you pretty much build most of the best Legacy decks in Modern without Force of will and Underground Sea?
What would of happened when Jace rotated in a few months? Prices of Jace/Mystic would have gone down. This just expedited that.
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