I assume you mean the shocklands(steam vents, overgrown tomb, etc). They are desireable because they are the closest thing to the original dual lands that we have. They have 2 basic land types and therefore can be fetched(cards like arid mesa, windswept heath etc) which is important for formats with those cards and in standard they can be fetched up with farseek so that's a plus. They will come down untapped(unless you don't want to pay the 2 life) so you can use them immediately which is very important.
If you're running a blue-white 60-card deck with 24 lands, why not just run 12 plains and 12 islands. These can both be fetched and without the 2 life penalty.
If you're running a blue-white 60-card deck with 24 lands, why not just run 12 plains and 12 islands. These can both be fetched and without the 2 life penalty.
That mana base is more fragile than if 8 of those 24 lands could make either colour as you wanted it. Others have already addressed this, so I will not do so right now.
Also, using shock lands, you could cast something that cost U on turn 1, and then proceed to cast something for WW, or even WR if you had a 3-colour deck, on turn 2. Isn't that sexy?
If you're running a blue-white 60-card deck with 24 lands, why not just run 12 plains and 12 islands. These can both be fetched and without the 2 life penalty.
If you look at your deck, you will see a number of spells that you want to cast by a certain turn. Say you want to be able to cast Wrath of God by turn four. This requires that you have two white mana, and two any mana on turn four. To pull this off, you will need at least 11 sources of white mana, and 22 sources of any mana. But what if you want to cast Counterspell on turn two? To reliably do this, you will need 13 blue sources. If you run only basics, then you will end up with 24-25 lands, but with only four duals, you can cut a land for another business spell, and still be able to reliably cast your spells when you need to.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
I understand why it's so much more desireable to have a single land card able to produce more than 1 type of mana.
What I'm having a hard time understanding is why would, say Blood Crypt be like like 4-5 times the cost of a Dragonskull Summit.
Both produce either red or black and both come in tapped until a certain condition is met, either paying 2 life or if you already have a basic land of that type.
The only real difference I see is that you have no choice about a core set dual land coming in tapped unless you're already further into the game with a basic land of that type out in the battlefield already, which means you can't tap it for mana on your first turn.
I understand that can be a big difference when you want to start fast, but does it really justify 5x the cost of a difference?
I understand why it's so much more desireable to have a single land card able to produce more than 1 type of mana.
What I'm having a hard time understanding is why would, say Blood Crypt be like like 4-5 times the cost of a Dragonskull Summit.
Both produce either red or black and both come in tapped until a certain condition is met, either paying 2 life or if you already have a basic land of that type.
The only real difference I see is that you have no choice about a core set dual land coming in tapped unless you're already further into the game with a basic land of that type out in the battlefield already, which means you can't tap it for mana on your first turn.
I understand that can be a big difference when you want to start fast, but does it really justify 5x the cost of a difference?
Pretty much, yeah. People want to play the optimal cards for their strategy, so it makes sense for the best cards of a type to be a lot more valuable than the 2nd best. The fact that you can control whether they will enter the battlefield tapped or not makes a big difference.
Rarity and other factors may play into how valuable a card is though, not only how good the card is in different formats.
Dual lands in general have the attraction of giving you two (or more) mana colors in one land, usually with some sort of downside. This allows your deck to curve out easier, and makes three (or more!) color decks possible, and makes dual colored decks easy to create (this was not always the case!)
Shock lands have a few extra benifits. Their downside isn't horribly awful. Shocking yourself on the first couple turns is usually going to be worth it in the long run, and you get two colors of mana available turn 1-3. After turn 1-3 you can choose to put it into play tapped if you don't really need the mana right away and can't take the damage at that point.
Shock lands have the subtypes of the mana they tap for. They have basic land names. So if there is a card that searches for a forest, for instance, now you can grab a forest/swamp.
Third, the only other dual in standard specifies that it will ETB tapped unless you control a certain basic land subtype. Since shocklands have these subtypes, it ensures that your other duals will be hitting the battlefield untapped and you can get a good, fast curve.
Shock lands are not the best duals, of course, but they are easily the SECOND best duals.
As for your cost question: The core duals (and innistrad duals) only really see play in standard, while the RTR shocklands see lots of play in modern. Since there is a lot more demand for them, the price is a lot higher.
In Modern and Extended, it can be a good idea to combine shock lands with fetch lands. If you do, each fetch land can get you any colour of mana. Any given fetch land will be able to find 7 out of the 10 different shock lands for you. Take, for example, Wooded Foothills. It can find the following shocklands:
Between these 7 lands, you can find any colour of mana, and usually the best choice of 2 different colours for the situation. The reason they can find them is that they each have 2 basic landtypes. Most other two-colour lands do not have basic landtypes. In other words, playing fetch lands and shock lands together will allow you to look at the situation you are in right now, and then decide what types of mana you want. Who cares about paying 1, 2 or 3 lives for that benefit? Not any good players, that is for sure.
I understand that can be a big difference when you want to start fast, but does it really justify 5x the cost of a difference?
Not only are the shocks better for older formats than the M13 lands, the M13 lands have been reprinted again and again, making them easy to find and less expensive.
There's two very, very important things going on here.
1) Their drawback only matters if you need the mana the turn you drop them. If you don't have a 1-drop turn one, you can lay down your shockland without any worries. If you need to have the mana up immediately, you pay the two life and you have it. Unlike the Scars of Mirrodin or M10 lands, the choice is completely yours. This means you're much more likely to have the types of mana you need when you need it.
2) Your life total is a resource. It makes no difference if you win at 20 life or if you win at 1. You don't get a parade for a flawless victory. Spending two life to make sure you have the mana you need is a pittance in the long run.
So, since Shock Lands "are not basic lands but have the properties of basic lands," can you run more than four in a deck?
No. The only cards that can be more than 4x in a deck are cards named Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. And any other card that has rules text saying otherwise, like Relentless Rats.
So, since Shock Lands "are not basic lands but have the properties of basic lands," can you run more than four in a deck?
No like any other card that does not have the basic supertype or rules text specifically allowing it you are still limited to 4 of each type in your deck/sideboard.
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I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
No. The only cards that can be more than 4x in a deck are cards named Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. And any other card that has rules text saying otherwise, like Relentless Rats.
Well, you forgot 5 out of the 11 cards, namely these:
What makes you able to play 5+ of a card in constructed is that it satisfies at least one of the following requirements, in addition to being printed in a set that is legal for the format you are playing and not being banned or restricted in that format:
Has the supertype "basic"
Has rules text that tells you you can play more than 4 of the card in your deck
Shocklands have basic land types (which are plains, island, swamp, mountain and forest), but they are not basic since they do not have the supertype "basic".
Quote from Magic: the Gathering Comprehensive Rules (2012-10-01) »
100.2a In constructed play (a way of playing in which each player creates his or her own deck ahead of time), each deck must contain at least sixty cards. A constructed deck may contain any number of basic land cards and no more than four of any card with a particular English name other than basic land cards.
Quote from Magic: the Gathering Comprehensive Rules (2012-10-01) »
205.3i Lands have their own unique set of subtypes; these subtypes are called land types. The land types are Desert, Forest, Gate, Island, Lair, Locus, Mine, Mountain, Plains, Power-Plant, Swamp, Tower, and Urza's.
Of that list, Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains, and Swamp are the basic land types. See rule 305.6.
Quote from Magic: the Gathering Comprehensive Rules (2012-10-01) »
205.4a A card can also have one or more supertypes. These are printed directly before its card types. The supertypes are basic, legendary, ongoing, snow, and world.
Quote from Magic: the Gathering Comprehensive Rules (2012-10-01) »
205.4c Any land with the supertype "basic" is a basic land. Any land that doesn't have this supertype is a nonbasic land, even if it has a basic land type.
In addition to fetching Shocklands with fetchlands, you can go search for them with cards like Farseek or Wood Elves or Krosan Verge. They interact very favorably with a wide range of cards because they have basic subtypes (though they are not basic lands- they are destroyed by cards that destroy non-basic lands like Ruination, and you can't run more than 4 in your deck).
Also, the M13 duals have been reprinted 4 times now. The shocklands have only been reprinted once, and the full effect of that hasn't been felt yet. I imagine the shocklands will actually go down in price because of this reprinting, even while in Standard.
OK. I didn't understand what people were saying about Fetch lands and land subtypes until I looked it up (I'm a newish player).
It doesn't look like there are any fetch lands in Standard right now, but you can probably use a card like Farseek then, to "fetch" a land card that with a land subtype. Yes, I can see a big advantage with that.
And plus the fact that the core set duals have been printed so many times to create enough of a supply for them that they are more affordable makes sense too.
OMG TimeWalk 0
You and target opponent draw a card.
Take an extra turn.
When your opponent does nothing because his mana base is badly built, you bascially get to play this spell. Do you want to give this card to your opponent? No? Then play the best manabase you can that will allow you to play your spells every turn. In standard and modern, the shocklands are OMG TW.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
Being the noob that I am, I must be missing something. What's the attraction of shock lands? And why are they valued so highly?
1. They are dual lands that may come into play untapped regardless of condition.
2. You may have them come into play tapped and they will not deal damage to you
3. They have both basic land types, so you can get them with fetch-lands like verdant catacomb
---* This way, any fetchland can get you a land that can produce any color of mana.
4. lands that come into play untapped and don't deal damage to you cost 5 times as much
Being the noob that I am, I must be missing something. What's the attraction of shock lands? And why are they valued so highly?
There is no big deal to them at all. In fact, I'll trade you 2 forests and 2 swamps for every Overgrown Tomb you have!
I have had awful luck so far in all the packs I have opened. Zero shocks.
With the pre-releases I attended (1 solo, 1 2HG), the winnings from those pre-releases, and the fat pack I purchased. I opened a total of 51 boosters. And like I said. Zero shocks.
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Maybe I am lost under a bridge here, but what are "burn lands"? Do you mean the 10 "shock lands"?
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If you're running a blue-white 60-card deck with 24 lands, why not just run 12 plains and 12 islands. These can both be fetched and without the 2 life penalty.
That mana base is more fragile than if 8 of those 24 lands could make either colour as you wanted it. Others have already addressed this, so I will not do so right now.
Also, using shock lands, you could cast something that cost U on turn 1, and then proceed to cast something for WW, or even WR if you had a 3-colour deck, on turn 2. Isn't that sexy?
If you look at your deck, you will see a number of spells that you want to cast by a certain turn. Say you want to be able to cast Wrath of God by turn four. This requires that you have two white mana, and two any mana on turn four. To pull this off, you will need at least 11 sources of white mana, and 22 sources of any mana. But what if you want to cast Counterspell on turn two? To reliably do this, you will need 13 blue sources. If you run only basics, then you will end up with 24-25 lands, but with only four duals, you can cut a land for another business spell, and still be able to reliably cast your spells when you need to.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
What I'm having a hard time understanding is why would, say Blood Crypt be like like 4-5 times the cost of a Dragonskull Summit.
Both produce either red or black and both come in tapped until a certain condition is met, either paying 2 life or if you already have a basic land of that type.
The only real difference I see is that you have no choice about a core set dual land coming in tapped unless you're already further into the game with a basic land of that type out in the battlefield already, which means you can't tap it for mana on your first turn.
I understand that can be a big difference when you want to start fast, but does it really justify 5x the cost of a difference?
Pretty much, yeah. People want to play the optimal cards for their strategy, so it makes sense for the best cards of a type to be a lot more valuable than the 2nd best. The fact that you can control whether they will enter the battlefield tapped or not makes a big difference.
Rarity and other factors may play into how valuable a card is though, not only how good the card is in different formats.
Shock lands have a few extra benifits. Their downside isn't horribly awful. Shocking yourself on the first couple turns is usually going to be worth it in the long run, and you get two colors of mana available turn 1-3. After turn 1-3 you can choose to put it into play tapped if you don't really need the mana right away and can't take the damage at that point.
Shock lands have the subtypes of the mana they tap for. They have basic land names. So if there is a card that searches for a forest, for instance, now you can grab a forest/swamp.
Third, the only other dual in standard specifies that it will ETB tapped unless you control a certain basic land subtype. Since shocklands have these subtypes, it ensures that your other duals will be hitting the battlefield untapped and you can get a good, fast curve.
Shock lands are not the best duals, of course, but they are easily the SECOND best duals.
As for your cost question: The core duals (and innistrad duals) only really see play in standard, while the RTR shocklands see lots of play in modern. Since there is a lot more demand for them, the price is a lot higher.
Between these 7 lands, you can find any colour of mana, and usually the best choice of 2 different colours for the situation. The reason they can find them is that they each have 2 basic landtypes. Most other two-colour lands do not have basic landtypes. In other words, playing fetch lands and shock lands together will allow you to look at the situation you are in right now, and then decide what types of mana you want. Who cares about paying 1, 2 or 3 lives for that benefit? Not any good players, that is for sure.
Not only are the shocks better for older formats than the M13 lands, the M13 lands have been reprinted again and again, making them easy to find and less expensive.
1) Their drawback only matters if you need the mana the turn you drop them. If you don't have a 1-drop turn one, you can lay down your shockland without any worries. If you need to have the mana up immediately, you pay the two life and you have it. Unlike the Scars of Mirrodin or M10 lands, the choice is completely yours. This means you're much more likely to have the types of mana you need when you need it.
2) Your life total is a resource. It makes no difference if you win at 20 life or if you win at 1. You don't get a parade for a flawless victory. Spending two life to make sure you have the mana you need is a pittance in the long run.
No. The only cards that can be more than 4x in a deck are cards named Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. And any other card that has rules text saying otherwise, like Relentless Rats.
No like any other card that does not have the basic supertype or rules text specifically allowing it you are still limited to 4 of each type in your deck/sideboard.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Well, you forgot 5 out of the 11 cards, namely these:
What makes you able to play 5+ of a card in constructed is that it satisfies at least one of the following requirements, in addition to being printed in a set that is legal for the format you are playing and not being banned or restricted in that format:
Shocklands have basic land types (which are plains, island, swamp, mountain and forest), but they are not basic since they do not have the supertype "basic".
Also, the M13 duals have been reprinted 4 times now. The shocklands have only been reprinted once, and the full effect of that hasn't been felt yet. I imagine the shocklands will actually go down in price because of this reprinting, even while in Standard.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
It doesn't look like there are any fetch lands in Standard right now, but you can probably use a card like Farseek then, to "fetch" a land card that with a land subtype. Yes, I can see a big advantage with that.
And plus the fact that the core set duals have been printed so many times to create enough of a supply for them that they are more affordable makes sense too.
OMG TimeWalk 0
You and target opponent draw a card.
Take an extra turn.
When your opponent does nothing because his mana base is badly built, you bascially get to play this spell. Do you want to give this card to your opponent? No? Then play the best manabase you can that will allow you to play your spells every turn. In standard and modern, the shocklands are OMG TW.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
1. They are dual lands that may come into play untapped regardless of condition.
2. You may have them come into play tapped and they will not deal damage to you
3. They have both basic land types, so you can get them with fetch-lands like verdant catacomb
---* This way, any fetchland can get you a land that can produce any color of mana.
4. lands that come into play untapped and don't deal damage to you cost 5 times as much
Yea, the price jump is pretty spectacular:
Glacial Fortress: $4
Hallowed Fountain: $20
Tundra: $100
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
There is no big deal to them at all. In fact, I'll trade you 2 forests and 2 swamps for every Overgrown Tomb you have!
I have had awful luck so far in all the packs I have opened. Zero shocks.
With the pre-releases I attended (1 solo, 1 2HG), the winnings from those pre-releases, and the fat pack I purchased. I opened a total of 51 boosters. And like I said. Zero shocks.