If wizards was to print power cards like ABU duals, fetchlands, Mana Crypt, etc. In a casual multiplayer product like CUBE, Planechase, Archenemy or Commander, and they were ruled to only be playable in non-sanctioned events, would you accept them?
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Excluding the Reserved List debate, which I'm not even going to go into, I'd love me some official proxies. My Cube and Commander would love them.
But only if the cards were valued cheap - $1 Lotuses, for example. Otherwise it defeats the purpose of proxies.
Absolutely. In fact, that they would likely be cheaper because they aren't playable in sanctioned events would make them BETTER in my estimation.
I tend to view Magic Cards the way I view Monopoly sets: do I really care if they're "tournament legal"?
I also don't really get the arguments made by people who call gold-bordered cards "proxies". Gold-bordered cards don't stand in for or represent something else: they are what they are, which is a magic card with a gold border. My World Championship edition Birds of Paradise are -- get ready for it -- Birds of Paradise Magic Cards.
They're no more proxies than they are counterfeit. Which they aren't.
But to get back to the OP... heck yeah! Bring it on.
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Current Favorite Decks: Creatureless Bolas Control with Lethal Vapors, Green Enchantress/Kavu Lair card draw, and Shriekmaw/Mulldrifter/Dignitary Flicker.
I would love a gold bordered power cube that I could buy. I have plenty of gold bordered stuff in addition to my BB stuff. 4 regular Rishadan port and 4 Gold border. 8 wasteland and 4 more gold border. They make great proxy and place holders in decks.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
I've supported gold bordered reprints for a long time. I posted a poll on these forums and the majority of people favored my idea. I emailed Mark Rosewater repeatedly with arguments for why such a reprint would be good for their company and the players. I didn't get any response, but maybe it is time to start the campaign again.
My idea was basically to reprint Collector's Edition with new frames, new rarities, and in booster packs to make it draftable. I think it is the best possible compromise between Reserved List supporters and abolitionists. I seriously doubt it would negatively affect prices of original prints.
I would love to see some proxy Power in the hands of newer players. Casual Vintage is better than no Vintage in my opinion. Who knows? It might even bring a new surge in Vintage and increase the prices of the original prints.
In all actuality, I would buy a set, as long as the set was like an awesome instant cube. I wouldnt want boosters of anything of this sort, as it would increase values of rares and that isnt what this product should be about.
If it was in the form of a prepackaged cube set then sure. I wouldn't want the randomness of boosters being involved because as iTRV said that would defeat the purpose.
If they were cheaper and easier than just making a proxy, but that means they would need to be real cheap and super easy to get. Basically only if they were the easiest form of proxy to get.
Absolutely. In fact, that they would likely be cheaper because they aren't playable in sanctioned events would make them BETTER in my estimation.
I tend to view Magic Cards the way I view Monopoly sets: do I really care if they're "tournament legal"?
I also don't really get the arguments made by people who call gold-bordered cards "proxies". Gold-bordered cards don't stand in for or represent something else: they are what they are, which is a magic card with a gold border. My World Championship edition Birds of Paradise are -- get ready for it -- Birds of Paradise Magic Cards.
They're no more proxies than they are counterfeit. Which they aren't.
But to get back to the OP... heck yeah! Bring it on.
While they may work for you, they don't work so well for people that play tournaments. Since, you know, they're not tournament legal.
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EDH WBRKaalia of the VastRBW BChainer, Dementia MasterB Legacy 0Manaless Dredge0 RGoblinsR Standard RBWThe AristocratsWBR
I dont think giving casual play groups access to ancestrial recall is good for the game...
I know they can proxy them but many casual groups dissalow proxies.
Non tournament places are just about the only place where these kind of broken cards can be used without issue. In a tournament setting, where you are expected to do your best to win, cards like Ancestral Recall can create huge balance problems. At the kitchen table, not so much, since a player can always use it to do things that are sub optimal and can choose to just stop using it if it is no longer fun.
I dont think giving casual play groups access to ancestrial recall is good for the game...
I know they can proxy them but many casual groups dissalow proxies.
I think that's totally up to said casual group to decide. When I play with my friends, we proxy whatever card we need (mostly due budget issues).
Please don't get me wrong, but I don't really see a problem with that as long you don't bring your proxies (be it gold bordered or not) to a tournament.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
I think we should really push this idea anytime we can have a dialogue with the R&D teams and MaRo, since casual Magic is growing exponentially and players really want to play power cards, specially after having a taste of them with MO's power cube, they should really try to find a way to cover that need in paper magic before the excess of demand forces them to ban this cards from casual formats (a ridiculous notion) just to presserve the "Spirit of the Resserved List".
Most of the people I play EDH/Planechase with are completely ok with gold bordered Wastelands, Gaea's Cradles and fetchs, and we would be really happy to be able to play with ABU duals and other power cards we're currently allowed to play, but not all are able.
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I wouldn't. I couldn't use them in any tournament and if they I were using them for casual I would just print off a proxy. These would mean nothing to me.
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Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
I wouldn't. I couldn't use them in any tournament and if they I were using them for casual I would just print off a proxy. These would mean nothing to me.
Printing proxies is still an illegal practice.
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Yes sir, I take fantasy art and character design commissions, PM me for rates.
Wouldn't this make all other magic cards lose value? Like cards that only see place in EDH will drop in price... Then what will even be the point of keeping older cards if you can just proxy them?
If I saw someone with a gold bordered card I would shake my head sadly at this state of affairs. Real Magic players play with either cards or proxies, not proxies pretending to be cards. Spending money on such a thing is simply shameful.
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Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho! Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
Wouldn't this make all other magic cards lose value? Like cards that only see place in EDH will drop in price... Then what will even be the point of keeping older cards if you can just proxy them?
This isn't about proxying every card that sees play in EDH. It's just about getting some duals and power 9 out there at reasonable prices for players who can't afford the current prices. There will still be a huge demand for tournament-legal versions of the cards due to tournament players and people who want to keep their cube "pimp" or completely legal.
In addition, when people get exposed to Moxen, Lotus, and so on, prices of other cards might actually go up. I really think a release like this would expand interest in Vintage.
In all actuality, I would buy a set, as long as the set was like an awesome instant cube. I wouldnt want boosters of anything of this sort, as it would increase values of rares and that isnt what this product should be about.
I fully support the Reserved List and I don't think this idea breaks the spirit. The cards aren't tournament legal.
If it was in the form of a prepackaged cube set then sure. I wouldn't want the randomness of boosters being involved because as iTRV said that would defeat the purpose.
If they were cheaper and easier than just making a proxy, but that means they would need to be real cheap and super easy to get. Basically only if they were the easiest form of proxy to get.
Being in boosters doesn't defeat the purpose at all. Magic is better when cards have value. I wouldn't expect or want Wizards to re-release their most iconic cards for a pittance. THAT would definitely be a bad thing for pretty much everyone.
You're missing the point. If i'm playing casually, not using them in tournaments. And not intending to sell or profit from these, what would I gain from these instead of spending a couple of pennies printing out some b/w copies of the card?
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Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
Wouldn't this make all other magic cards lose value? Like cards that only see place in EDH will drop in price... Then what will even be the point of keeping older cards if you can just proxy them?
Not tournament (sanctioned event) legal, so collectors can keep their precious "investment" and benefit from the sanctioned Vintage/Legacy events increasing the demand for their cards, while casual players still get to play with them.
Will also prevent the constant string of embolism that happens whenever someone "dares to" alt a power money card "destroying limited supply of collector items".
You're missing the point. If i'm playing casually, not using them in tournaments. And not intending to sell or profit from these, what would I gain from these instead of spending a couple of pennies printing out some b/w copies of the card?
There are at least three LGS-run EDH leagues that will allow a World Championship Deck Wasteland or fetchland on solid sleeves because the league is a non-sanctioned tournament, but won't allow any sort of proxy because proxying is real-world-law illegal.
If people can benefit greatly from such product as a non-sanctioned playable Collector's Edition for Commander and the kitchen table, there's no reason for such a product not to be adressed.
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Yes sir, I take fantasy art and character design commissions, PM me for rates.
There are at least three LGS-run EDH leagues that will allow a World Championship Deck Wasteland or fetchland on solid sleeves because the league is a non-sanctioned tournament, but won't allow any sort of proxy because proxying is real-world-law illegal.
If people can benefit greatly from such product as a non-sanctioned playable Collector's Edition for Commander and the kitchen table, there's no reason for such a product not to be adressed.
Downloading songs from youtube/kazaa/piratebay/ etc is illegal, jailbreaking your phone is illegal, and lots of stuff people do everyday is illegal. If you're printing off a proxy and using it casually with your friends and never in a tournament anywhere or trying to sell them off as real you'll probably be fine 99.99999999% of the time.
If people can use this and enjoy this, fine, but I'm just giving my reasons why I think it's a dumb product.
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Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
But only if the cards were valued cheap - $1 Lotuses, for example. Otherwise it defeats the purpose of proxies.
I tend to view Magic Cards the way I view Monopoly sets: do I really care if they're "tournament legal"?
I also don't really get the arguments made by people who call gold-bordered cards "proxies". Gold-bordered cards don't stand in for or represent something else: they are what they are, which is a magic card with a gold border. My World Championship edition Birds of Paradise are -- get ready for it -- Birds of Paradise Magic Cards.
They're no more proxies than they are counterfeit. Which they aren't.
But to get back to the OP... heck yeah! Bring it on.
If the back was different and it didn't show through sleeves I'd be fine.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
My idea was basically to reprint Collector's Edition with new frames, new rarities, and in booster packs to make it draftable. I think it is the best possible compromise between Reserved List supporters and abolitionists. I seriously doubt it would negatively affect prices of original prints.
I would love to see some proxy Power in the hands of newer players. Casual Vintage is better than no Vintage in my opinion. Who knows? It might even bring a new surge in Vintage and increase the prices of the original prints.
And I'd use them for everything.
Thread | Draft
In all actuality, I would buy a set, as long as the set was like an awesome instant cube. I wouldnt want boosters of anything of this sort, as it would increase values of rares and that isnt what this product should be about.
Depending on price point, I would buy them and I would play them proudly.
While they may work for you, they don't work so well for people that play tournaments. Since, you know, they're not tournament legal.
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
I think that's totally up to said casual group to decide. When I play with my friends, we proxy whatever card we need (mostly due budget issues).
Please don't get me wrong, but I don't really see a problem with that as long you don't bring your proxies (be it gold bordered or not) to a tournament.
Same, except I would do like I do with my white bordered cards... paint them black.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Most of the people I play EDH/Planechase with are completely ok with gold bordered Wastelands, Gaea's Cradles and fetchs, and we would be really happy to be able to play with ABU duals and other power cards we're currently allowed to play, but not all are able.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Printing proxies is still an illegal practice.
Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho!
Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
Read their story here!
BMy Little KokushoB
RBRakdos UNLEASHED!!!RB
My Standard Decks:
UGRakdos, Bolas, and Ludevic Go To A PartyUG
This isn't about proxying every card that sees play in EDH. It's just about getting some duals and power 9 out there at reasonable prices for players who can't afford the current prices. There will still be a huge demand for tournament-legal versions of the cards due to tournament players and people who want to keep their cube "pimp" or completely legal.
In addition, when people get exposed to Moxen, Lotus, and so on, prices of other cards might actually go up. I really think a release like this would expand interest in Vintage.
I fully support the Reserved List and I don't think this idea breaks the spirit. The cards aren't tournament legal.
Being in boosters doesn't defeat the purpose at all. Magic is better when cards have value. I wouldn't expect or want Wizards to re-release their most iconic cards for a pittance. THAT would definitely be a bad thing for pretty much everyone.
You're missing the point. If i'm playing casually, not using them in tournaments. And not intending to sell or profit from these, what would I gain from these instead of spending a couple of pennies printing out some b/w copies of the card?
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Not tournament (sanctioned event) legal, so collectors can keep their precious "investment" and benefit from the sanctioned Vintage/Legacy events increasing the demand for their cards, while casual players still get to play with them.
Will also prevent the constant string of embolism that happens whenever someone "dares to" alt a power money card "destroying limited supply of collector items".
There are at least three LGS-run EDH leagues that will allow a World Championship Deck Wasteland or fetchland on solid sleeves because the league is a non-sanctioned tournament, but won't allow any sort of proxy because proxying is real-world-law illegal.
If people can benefit greatly from such product as a non-sanctioned playable Collector's Edition for Commander and the kitchen table, there's no reason for such a product not to be adressed.
Downloading songs from youtube/kazaa/piratebay/ etc is illegal, jailbreaking your phone is illegal, and lots of stuff people do everyday is illegal. If you're printing off a proxy and using it casually with your friends and never in a tournament anywhere or trying to sell them off as real you'll probably be fine 99.99999999% of the time.
If people can use this and enjoy this, fine, but I'm just giving my reasons why I think it's a dumb product.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm