What is this Ravnica planeswalker council all about? I understand Gideon is going to them for help with the Eldrazi. Who is in it? What, if any, was its first appearance? Is Jace a part of it since he is from Ravnica? Who else hopes we return to Ravnica like we are with Mirrodin so we can better understand this council?
What Gideon is referring to was likely the Infinite Consortium, which was largely a band of mercenaries and criminals. It was originally made by Bolas, but after Tezzeret earned a place in it, he slaughtered everyone above him and said "Okay, I'm king now."
They worked largely in extortion, loans, merc work, and trading in illegal goods. Tezzeret ended up recruiting Jace in Agents of Artifice, and I would seriously suggest reading so I won't spoil much more.
The thing is, Gideon doesn't know all that much about what he's doing. He probably heard about them on Kephalai, where the Consortium had a cell.
Quick thing too, Jace isn't FROM Ravnica. He's living on Ravnica now, but he isn't FROM there.
Still I find it a bit strange Gideon was referring to the Consortium as "organization of planeswalkers". Five isn't really that many, not to mention two of them were killed/kicked out of the organization in Agents of Artifice. Three 'walkers can hardly be called "an organization" if you ask me...
Yeah, but then again, Tezzeret WAS bragging they had the most walkers in anything like that.
Besides, way I figure, it's probably a case of the telephone game. He heard it from a source who heard it from a source and the message got garbled.
Gideon was likely working off of flawed information.
Plus, in the context, he's looking for planeswalkers to help fight the Eldrazi, so it's unlikely he'd have many leads. Five planeswalkers are better than none.
My bad on thinking Jace was from Ravnica. What plane is he from? Or is that unknown at the moment?
I know you guys mentioned that Gideon was probably mistaken and had garbled information, but what if he isn't? We should see a council of planeswalkers emerge. How else is someone supposed to take Nicol down?
I know you guys mentioned that Gideon was probably mistaken and had garbled information, but what if he isn't?
The chance that there's a second council of planeswalkers on Ravnica is remote. Jace or Tez would have noticed.
We should see a council of planeswalkers emerge. How else is someone supposed to take Nicol down?
Well considering that Bolas was being up by himself...
I don't foresee a "team of planeswalkers" emerging in the classic, superhero manner, though we might see small bands of planeswalkers join together against a common enemy for a bit.
* Though i think Jace will be the one to defeat Bolas, alone.
What I thought was interesting was that he didn't go to the Order of Heliud main interplanar headquarters. You would assume they had several walkers under their command.
He's going to go to Jace to see if he has any bright ideas. Jace is like Batman.
There are a lot of dangling threads that need to be resolved. The Eldrazi and Nicol Bolas. If they want the Eldrazi around for the long term then I suppose I could be fine with a single one every now and again. As for the Dragon.....
Bolas needs to die. I'd could see Tezzeret giving it a go, but I just don't think he has the raw power to do it alone. I feel Bolas needs to be defeated by a complete weakling for it to be all the more meaningful. He took so much pride in his power that to render him completely powerless would be the ultimate end for a titanic villain.
The council, as said before, is likely to Consortium. As too if the Ravnica branch or even if the whole organization is still functioning properly after the events of AoA is anyone's guess. Probably yes, just because it was like the Empire in Star Wars with the "headquarters" or whatever it was on the desert plane being like a Magic Death Star but who cares about that when there's an evil dragon messing things up or Lovecraft-ish monsters eating Zendikar?
Now if Gideon gets anywhere with this planeswalker council, you can probably expect the Super Friends to come together (Gideon being Superman, Jace is Batman (as said before), Chandra/Elspeth as Wonder Woman (more likely Chandra), and.. um.. Garruk or Ajani as Aqua Man? Yeah, you get it.)
I would like to see an epic fight between Jace and Bolas, or to just make Bolas's plans turn around and kill him by trapping him on Zendikar in the path of Emrakul and friends or something along those lines. Granted, having the little guy off Bolas would be sweet too.
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The council, as said before, is likely to Consortium. As too if the Ravnica branch or even if the whole organization is still functioning properly after the events of AoA is anyone's guess. Probably yes, just because it was like the Empire in Star Wars with the "headquarters" or whatever it was on the desert plane being like a Magic Death Star but who cares about that when there's an evil dragon messing things up or Lovecraft-ish monsters eating Zendikar?
Now if Gideon gets anywhere with this planeswalker council, you can probably expect the Super Friends to come together (Gideon being Superman, Jace is Batman (as said before), Chandra/Elspeth as Wonder Woman (more likely Chandra), and.. um.. Garruk or Ajani as Aqua Man? Yeah, you get it.)
I would like to see an epic fight between Jace and Bolas, or to just make Bolas's plans turn around and kill him by trapping him on Zendikar in the path of Emrakul and friends or something along those lines. Granted, having the little guy off Bolas would be sweet too.
Teferi was a super planeswalker with a lot of power and couldn't do anything against bolas... Jace I just don't think has the power to defeat him, Teferi had a few hundred years to train and still go wrecked by bolas. I compare them because they were both blue planeswalkers.
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What I thought was interesting was that he didn't go to the Order of Heliud main interplanar headquarters. You would assume they had several walkers under their command.
This is an interesting thought. Technically I don't think Gideon was supposed to be on Zendikar at all. He went off to find Chandra of his own accord, not having to do with Order business. Considering this is a White organization with the goal of multiversal law and order, I can bet that they wouldn't be willing or able to drop everything at the drop of a hat to try and help fix the mess. For all we know they'd immediately imprison/punish Gideon for going off without orders.
This is an interesting thought. Technically I don't think Gideon was supposed to be on Zendikar at all. He went off to find Chandra of his own accord, not having to do with Order business. Considering this is a White organization with the goal of multiversal law and order, I can bet that they wouldn't be willing or able to drop everything at the drop of a hat to try and help fix the mess. For all we know they'd immediately imprison/punish Gideon for going off without orders.
Well, there is something to note here too. Mainly, Gideon isn't actually a part of the Order. He came to study the Purifying Fire and they agreed to let him if he would hunt down Chandra for them. Besides that, Chandra's lessons about what kind of people the Order are have put him in a position that he's actually trying to disentangle himself from them.
True, but I really doubt they'd be enough. If three pre-Mending planeswalkers were unable to destroy the Eldrazi, then five post-Mending neowalkers don't stand a chance IMO.
Right, and 500 neowalkers probally couldn't stop the Eldrazi. So the notion of assembling a team of Neowalkers to battle them directly is just nuts.
As i've said elsewhere, i think that Gideon going to hunt down the consortium is just a way for creative to inform Jace of the Eldrazi's release. (And perhaps set up him, Jace, Chandra, possibly Garruk going there). < Garruk did warn Jace about going to Zendikar in the first place.
Jace? How would he do that? He's not even close to Bolas when it comes to power level. In fact, the only 'walker who's possibly capable of killing Bolas in a fair duel is Karn.
On the other hand, Bolas got his ass kicked by much weaker beings before...
Well i doubt we'll have the Bolas story arch completed in the next few years. It seems that Jace is going through the "hero's journey" story arch. If he does we can expect him to gain and lose a mentor, grow in power, and eventually defeat a great evil. As the story stands now, the mentor is likely Karn, and the great evil is likely Bolas. Though that could change I guess.
And remember that power is now realitive. Yes Bolas is mightier magically, but Jace is younger. Also Bolas doesn't really have an advantage since he's losing alot of his arcane knowledge.
Jace? How would he do that? He's not even close to Bolas when it comes to power level. In fact, the only 'walker who's possibly capable of killing Bolas in a fair duel is Karn.
If Ajani can deus ex machina'd his butt out of Alara, Jace can do it too.
Right, and 500 neowalkers probally couldn't stop the Eldrazi. So the notion of assembling a team of Neowalkers to battle them directly is just nuts.
I know you're probably just utilizing hyperbole to make your point here, but still, I think 500 neowalkers could defeat the Eldrazi. They were all imprisoned before by walkers. Why couldn't 500 of the neowalkers do it again?
If anyone or anything can imprison or defeat or stop the Eldrazi, it'll be neowalkers working together.
Or some crazy Urza weapon Karn has kept hidden and safe for forever and a day.
There's a vast gulf of difference between old and neo walkers, which make the comparison of 3 and 500 much less ridiculous than you may imagine. The old planeswalkers had access to almost literally infinite amounts of mana, with which they could create entire planes of existence on a whim. They were effectively immortal in that their physical bodies were merely a physical avatar of their mind/spirit; they could change their form freely, and could reform a damaged body with a thought.
A neo-walker has no more innate power than a normal mage. What makes them special is the ability to form mana bonds on a multitude of planes, and the opportunities to learn and discover new spells and creatures on different worlds. Without those opportunities they would be no stronger than your average mage.
I know you're probably just utilizing hyperbole to make your point here, but still, I think 500 neowalkers could defeat the Eldrazi. They were all imprisoned before by walkers. Why couldn't 500 of the neowalkers do it again?
Indeed, it could take 1 planeswalker to defeat them. creative can do whatever creative wants to do. But I don't think the Neowalkers could defeat them because the Neowalkers can't survive in the Blind eternities (where the Oldwalkers fought the Eldrazi), and it seems that the Eldrazi don't enter the planes they destroy so i don't really see how the Neowalkers can fight them.
Even in coperal form, they must be very powerful, otherwise the Oldwalkers would have just destroyed them then and there.
Or some crazy Urza weapon Karn has kept hidden and safe for forever and a day.
If creative did this, i'd probally quit the storyline all together.
They worked largely in extortion, loans, merc work, and trading in illegal goods. Tezzeret ended up recruiting Jace in Agents of Artifice, and I would seriously suggest reading so I won't spoil much more.
The thing is, Gideon doesn't know all that much about what he's doing. He probably heard about them on Kephalai, where the Consortium had a cell.
Quick thing too, Jace isn't FROM Ravnica. He's living on Ravnica now, but he isn't FROM there.
Yeah, but then again, Tezzeret WAS bragging they had the most walkers in anything like that.
Besides, way I figure, it's probably a case of the telephone game. He heard it from a source who heard it from a source and the message got garbled.
Plus, in the context, he's looking for planeswalkers to help fight the Eldrazi, so it's unlikely he'd have many leads. Five planeswalkers are better than none.
I know you guys mentioned that Gideon was probably mistaken and had garbled information, but what if he isn't? We should see a council of planeswalkers emerge. How else is someone supposed to take Nicol down?
The chance that there's a second council of planeswalkers on Ravnica is remote. Jace or Tez would have noticed.
Well considering that Bolas was being up by himself...
I don't foresee a "team of planeswalkers" emerging in the classic, superhero manner, though we might see small bands of planeswalkers join together against a common enemy for a bit.
* Though i think Jace will be the one to defeat Bolas, alone.
Though I'll hate them every second for it.
He's going to go to Jace to see if he has any bright ideas. Jace is like Batman.
There are a lot of dangling threads that need to be resolved. The Eldrazi and Nicol Bolas. If they want the Eldrazi around for the long term then I suppose I could be fine with a single one every now and again. As for the Dragon.....
Bolas needs to die. I'd could see Tezzeret giving it a go, but I just don't think he has the raw power to do it alone. I feel Bolas needs to be defeated by a complete weakling for it to be all the more meaningful. He took so much pride in his power that to render him completely powerless would be the ultimate end for a titanic villain.
Now if Gideon gets anywhere with this planeswalker council, you can probably expect the Super Friends to come together (Gideon being Superman, Jace is Batman (as said before), Chandra/Elspeth as Wonder Woman (more likely Chandra), and.. um.. Garruk or Ajani as Aqua Man? Yeah, you get it.)
I would like to see an epic fight between Jace and Bolas, or to just make Bolas's plans turn around and kill him by trapping him on Zendikar in the path of Emrakul and friends or something along those lines. Granted, having the little guy off Bolas would be sweet too.
Teferi was a super planeswalker with a lot of power and couldn't do anything against bolas... Jace I just don't think has the power to defeat him, Teferi had a few hundred years to train and still go wrecked by bolas. I compare them because they were both blue planeswalkers.
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This is an interesting thought. Technically I don't think Gideon was supposed to be on Zendikar at all. He went off to find Chandra of his own accord, not having to do with Order business. Considering this is a White organization with the goal of multiversal law and order, I can bet that they wouldn't be willing or able to drop everything at the drop of a hat to try and help fix the mess. For all we know they'd immediately imprison/punish Gideon for going off without orders.
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Well, there is something to note here too. Mainly, Gideon isn't actually a part of the Order. He came to study the Purifying Fire and they agreed to let him if he would hunt down Chandra for them. Besides that, Chandra's lessons about what kind of people the Order are have put him in a position that he's actually trying to disentangle himself from them.
Right, and 500 neowalkers probally couldn't stop the Eldrazi. So the notion of assembling a team of Neowalkers to battle them directly is just nuts.
As i've said elsewhere, i think that Gideon going to hunt down the consortium is just a way for creative to inform Jace of the Eldrazi's release. (And perhaps set up him, Jace, Chandra, possibly Garruk going there). < Garruk did warn Jace about going to Zendikar in the first place.
Well i doubt we'll have the Bolas story arch completed in the next few years. It seems that Jace is going through the "hero's journey" story arch. If he does we can expect him to gain and lose a mentor, grow in power, and eventually defeat a great evil. As the story stands now, the mentor is likely Karn, and the great evil is likely Bolas. Though that could change I guess.
And remember that power is now realitive. Yes Bolas is mightier magically, but Jace is younger. Also Bolas doesn't really have an advantage since he's losing alot of his arcane knowledge.
If Ajani can deus ex machina'd his butt out of Alara, Jace can do it too.
I know you're probably just utilizing hyperbole to make your point here, but still, I think 500 neowalkers could defeat the Eldrazi. They were all imprisoned before by walkers. Why couldn't 500 of the neowalkers do it again?
If anyone or anything can imprison or defeat or stop the Eldrazi, it'll be neowalkers working together.
Or some crazy Urza weapon Karn has kept hidden and safe for forever and a day.
A neo-walker has no more innate power than a normal mage. What makes them special is the ability to form mana bonds on a multitude of planes, and the opportunities to learn and discover new spells and creatures on different worlds. Without those opportunities they would be no stronger than your average mage.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Indeed, it could take 1 planeswalker to defeat them. creative can do whatever creative wants to do. But I don't think the Neowalkers could defeat them because the Neowalkers can't survive in the Blind eternities (where the Oldwalkers fought the Eldrazi), and it seems that the Eldrazi don't enter the planes they destroy so i don't really see how the Neowalkers can fight them.
Even in coperal form, they must be very powerful, otherwise the Oldwalkers would have just destroyed them then and there.
If creative did this, i'd probally quit the storyline all together.
Very true. This puts things in perspective.
And if they used something like some Urza weapon to defeat the Eldrazi like I said before, I'd quit the storyline, too.