Fishing for game wins via bad judge calls falls under the category of unsportsman like conduct, and is grounds for a DQ. Its no different then calling a judge for any other completely unjustified reason in an attempt to manipulate for a game win.
USC-Minor is actually a Warning, and upgrades to a game loss on subsequent infractions. This isn't cheating, it's just being a jerk, and in the vast majority of cases, being a jerk doesn't lead to a DQ unless some other offenses are committed on the way.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Depends on what they do, if they are trying to use judge ignorance to fish for a game loss that is considered cheating, and warrants a DQ, as they are aware of the rules themselves and a re simply hoping that the judge is not. There have been several instances of this occurring actually including once at a PT a couple of years ago.
So, couple of questions regarding the "legality" of playing with cards like this because I got a crazy idea of getting an ENTIRE deck done. I think it would damn (can I say that?) pretty. I don't have plans to go to any major events to compete, but it would just be at the kitchen table and the occasional weekend tournament at my lgs.
1. Every card in the deck is nonfoil, so it would be obvious where the foil alteration began and original card textbox/name ended.
2. The art used was super/extended version of the actual artwork on the card, so nobody could say the art was unrecognizable.
3. EVERY card in the deck had this done. Any suspicions that I could tell the cards apart by their weight, stiffness, etc. would not be an issue.
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Casual Cube EDH: UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness BGW Ghave's Garden WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count Vintage: URWelder WUBRG Dredge Kitchen Table: B Zombies in Your Head
So, I got one of these "altered print" cards before the guy started selling them for crazy money, back when he first started selling these cards. It was a Counterspell.
This card was not foil, but from what I can tell, this card looks like it got a dose of acetate (smells like it, too), leaving the card name, casting cost, and text box. The art was then inserted over the blank area. It could be a proxy/fake, but this card at least looks legit. Still, I would not use it outside of casual play.
I was not horribly impressed. It's okay, and I got it for cheap (thankfully). Because of the acetate wash, the card smells heavily like wood varnish. And for what it's worth, I'm fairly sure the art was lifted off of Deviant Art.
The foil cards, though, look very... suspicious. My advice is buyer beware.
Sorry to bump this old topic, but I wanted to say I just bought a foil Vesuva from this guy via eBay,
and I am *beyond* impressed- it is absolutely stunning.
After reading your comment, I took a whiff, and it does indeed have a solvent smell,
but it is very, very faint.
I don't think I'd want to risk using it in a tournament since it may not be allowed,
but I can't wait to put it in one of my EDH decks.
And for those appalled by the Liliana price-
just contact the guy and commission one.
I've just commissioned a boatload of cards for EDH,
and I'm only paying card price +$5.
It seems like a very good deal to me,
since all I play is EDH.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
how is the flexibility on these, do they feel like a normal card?
From what I have read, there more stiff and some are worse than others.
I read one user say he does not cut it ever time, but can tell right away by how it feels its "the card".
One guy who's only sold a handful must have been using very poor materials, his cards were stiff and heavy.
I want to ask - is it legal to use the original art/planeswalker or to modificate them and then sell them ? Because they are property to wotc .
From conversations with WOTC concerning alters (I report a ton of proxies and also needed clarification), they concern themselves most if the card has been changed from one card into another. Meaning taking a foil island and turning it into a Snapcaster Mage. Taking that same island and making it into a non-infringing island they seem to have no trouble with (as long as you're not using mana symbols/frame elements/expansion symbols/etc.).
I have a few of these, and I think they look quite nice. I do plan to buy more.
Most of the artwork seems to be coming from DeviantArt. Attributing that one card to Daenerys Targaryen is really funny, and I'm not really clear on whether they pay royalties for all the artwork.
I tried taking their images and just printing them out on glossy photo paper using my good inkjet printer and it looks nice enough, but it doesn't seem like a substitute for the real thing because they have some nice foil effects going on, and they also keep the original card text untouched, which is much sharper than what my printer can produce.
step 1. print a nice foil picture over a Tamiyo
step 2. sell it on eBay and get multiple bids over $220 Link removed.
step 3. profit!
step 1. print a nice foil picture over a Tamiyo
step 2. sell it on eBay and get multiple bids over $220
step 3. profit!
That is insane! I scrolled through his other sales, and that one is a bit of an anomaly- most of them are going for $15 or so.
It makes me worried as to how much the artists commissioned for these cards are getting out of this. It takes a lot of work to create a work of art, not to mention a lot of hours involved. Besides, the whole point of an altered card is to have something unique- at least, it is to me. The whole thing just rubs me the wrong way...
That is insane! I scrolled through his other sales, and that one is a bit of an anomaly- most of them are going for $15 or so.
$305 on the Tamiyo now!
It's hard to imagine why people are bidding that much, when the seller is probably going to put a few more copies of it up for buy-it-now for under $60 in about 2 weeks.
It makes me worried as to how much the artists commissioned for these cards are getting out of this. It takes a lot of work to create a work of art, not to mention a lot of hours involved.
The guys behind these cards claim to be paying commissions. However, there have been many complaints that they're just outright stealing the art.
The guys behind these cards claim to be paying commissions. However, there have been many complaints that they're just outright stealing the art.
I just re-read this full topic and aside from second-hand posts like "my friend found his art on the card," have there been any substantiated cases of an original artist (or copyright holder) finding their art on one of these alters, and then them contacting Alteredprints to request royalties and getting denied?
I did look through the Alteredprints facebook page, and apparently in the "Daenerys Targaryen" art credit case it turned out to be that there's an artist who goes under that pseudonym when posting their Game of Thrones fan art online.
I recognized the artwork on an "altered" card being sold on EBay yesterday that I had seen before on Deviantart. Contacted the artist and, sure enough, it was stolen.
I recognized the artwork on an "altered" card being sold on EBay yesterday that I had seen before on Deviantart. Contacted the artist and, sure enough, it was stolen.
I hate to assist in Necroing this old thread, but i've contacted WotC about the Comic Mania Customs guy on ebay, HE keeps using copyrighted artwork and making non-foil cards foil. without giving artist/wotc credit for the artwork. WotC owns the copyrights to each artwork they print, along with the artists who make them. This guy finally got me to contact WotC because he used Kekai Kotaki's Liliana vess on an M11 one, he's obviously making a profit on other's work, and seriously, it just makes me angry.
Obviously, Kekai isn't making anything from this guy, neither is Aleksi Briclot, neither is RK Post, and etc.
If you find ebay listings using printed stickers and using artwork from the original cards without crediting them, report, report, report! Also, contact wotc, let them know it bothers you. I've been in contact with them, and trust me, it bothers them too. I'm sure if the artists knew their artwork was being used without their permission, they'd be bothered by it too.
The only way they're going to learn is by spreading the word of their evils. Reporting them to ebay, making public comments on their auctions, etc. contacting people buying their items. It's a cumulative effect that will inevitably stop the theft of artwork and ultimately, their profitable theft won't be so profitable anymore...
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There is nothing wrong with necroing this old thread, because this Alteredprints company is stealing art.
On abugames.com I noticed the art they put on their Lotleth Troll alter was a piece Kekai Kotaki did for Guild Wars 2. I emailed him about it and he had no idea they were using his art. He advised me to contact ArenaNet, the company that makes Guild Wars. I also looked at ArenaNet's terms of use policy while I was there and AlteredPrints is definitely violating it.
A lot of the art on their other alters I have seen before while browsing art on the internet. I think it's likely that most of their art is stolen.
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Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
There is nothing wrong with necroing this old thread, because this Alteredprints company is stealing art.
On abugames.com I noticed the art they put on their Lotleth Troll alter was a piece Kekai Kotaki did for Guild Wars 2. I emailed him about it and he had no idea they were using his art. He advised me to contact ArenaNet, the company that makes Guild Wars. I also looked at ArenaNet's terms of use policy while I was there and AlteredPrints is definitely violating it.
A lot of the art on their other alters I have seen before while browsing art on the internet. I think it's likely that most of their art is stolen.
Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at, a lot of the art that these sticker-printing guys use, is stolen.
However, nothing will get done about it because if the stolen art is WotC commissioned for a card, they'll say they'll do something, then dont... I told them 4 months ago that someone was stealing their art and just blowing it up, pasting it on stickers, slapping them on cards and making profit, and they didn't really do anything...
Heck, even Daarken lead a crusade against art theft, and it really had no effect, if companies don't pursue it, nothing gets done.
And yes, Daarken did lead a fight against a card game that stole his art, I don't remember if it was settled or not, but the guy blatantly lied to Daarken and it really grinded the artist community's gears.
I think if companies got spammed mail about these topics, they'd be more willing to do something.
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Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at, a lot of the art that these sticker-printing guys use, is stolen.
However, nothing will get done about it because if the stolen art is WotC commissioned for a card, they'll say they'll do something, then dont... I told them 4 months ago that someone was stealing their art and just blowing it up, pasting it on stickers, slapping them on cards and making profit, and they didn't really do anything...
Heck, even Daarken lead a crusade against art theft, and it really had no effect, if companies don't pursue it, nothing gets done.
And yes, Daarken did lead a fight against a card game that stole his art, I don't remember if it was settled or not, but the guy blatantly lied to Daarken and it really grinded the artist community's gears.
I think if companies got spammed mail about these topics, they'd be more willing to do something.
the idea here is "what constitutes copyright infringement" and "what kind of infringement is tolerated?".
the reason wizards doesn't go after "print" alters is the same reason they don't go after traditional paint, pencil, or marker alters. they all fall under the same type of copyright infringement. it is just as illegal to paint and resell a Thragtusk as it is to print out a picture of Thrastusk and put it on a card. so long as they aren't creating a fake card, the only difference between the two is the medium used. whether or not painted alters are considered more "artistic" than print alters is a matter of opinion or semantics. fact is, both equally violate wizards copyright (both are adaptive works).
so then it is left up to wizards to decide what they will tolerate from their alter fanbase and what they will not. through my own dealings with them, it seems that so long as you are not creating "new" product (fake cards), proxy cards, or using nudity or overtly sexual themes, and aren't stealing art from other non-wizards sources, they don't feel inclined to go after you.
however the original point that was made, about art being taken from other (non-wizards) games or websites and being used for alters without permission, i totally agree with. i can't myself confirm that AlteredPrints is using art without permission, but i do know from experience that wizards doesn't take kindly to you using non-wizards art without permission. taking wizards art for non-wizards products is also something they would likely have issue with.
anyway, i just wanted to add my 2 cents about the whole situation.
the idea here is "what constitutes copyright infringement" and "what kind of infringement is tolerated?".
the reason wizards doesn't go after "print" alters is the same reason they don't go after traditional paint, pencil, or marker alters. they all fall under the same type of copyright infringement. it is just as illegal to paint and resell a Thragtusk as it is to print out a picture of Thrastusk and put it on a card. so long as they aren't creating a fake card, the only difference between the two is the medium used. whether or not painted alters are considered more "artistic" than print alters is a matter of opinion or semantics. fact is, both equally violate wizards copyright (both are adaptive works).
I don't understand this part.
If I take a forest card, and I put a unicorn sticker on it, and resell it for $5, how does that violate anyone's copyright?
I understand how it would violate copyright if I scanned my forest + unicorn and was selling the digital artwork (because the forest part contains copyrighted art), but if I own a forest card and I own a unicorn sticker, and both are perfectly legal by themselves to resell, why can't I put them together and sell it?
If I take a forest card, and I put a unicorn sticker on it, and resell it for $5, how does that violate anyone's copyright?
I understand how it would violate copyright if I scanned my forest + unicorn and was selling the digital artwork (because the forest part contains copyrighted art), but if I own a forest card and I own a unicorn sticker, and both are perfectly legal by themselves to resell, why can't I put them together and sell it?
because you are creating what is called an "adaptive work". you are taking the original work (forest), and altering it with the unicorn sticker, hence creating a "new" work using the original forest as a base. now, no one is every going to be prosecuted for putting unicorn stickers on forests, but it does technically still fall under the adaptive works form of copyright infringement. under the letter of the law, putting a unicorn sticker on a forest in order to change the original forest art is no different than taking an oil painting of a forest that someone has done, and painting in a unicorn of your own design. both are adaptive works, and both are copyright infringement. one is simply more likely to get you in trouble, since the oil painting will likely net you more than $5, and the original artist is more likely to press charges if he sees the changes.
EDIT: also, this only works if the item is considered art and falls under copyright. obviously it is not illegal to combine objects and sell them, otherwise we wouldn't have things like food and clothing. but if you take "art" you don't own the copyright to and change it (even if you don't sell it), that is technically copyright infringement. case in point, someone was repainting and reselling Marvel Comics statues (not in some crazy way, just doing a better paint job then the factory did). seems totally legit, but he was sued for infringement because he isn't allowed to repaint (and therefor adapt) the work.
whether or not painted alters are considered more "artistic" than print alters is a matter of opinion or semantics.
No, it's actually a matter of fact, allow me to explain what you're doing.
This altered elesh norn took me about 6+ hours to complete.
In order to accomplish this, I had to use several artistic skills including color blending, color matching, and paint thinning. As well as having to know how to use the paint brush to achieve the effects desired.
This is artistic value, the alter contains effects hand painted by someone who has the skills to do so.
vs.
You know how long this render took me to make? 20 seconds... I'd assume another 2 minutes to print, and another 18 to cut and stick to a card... The only skill you apply is with a cutting knife. Literally, my non-artistic mother could do this in roughly the same amount of time...
Yet, somehow, your barely 20 minutes of work somehow gets you more money than MY 6+ hours of skill intensive work shown. You know how much the paints I use cost? about $4.25 per pot, and you only get a little 12ml container of it... Yeah, I use the good stuff because you can't match the colors otherwise...
I was barely able to get $20 out of the above Norn, whereas I normally see printed cards going for a lot more than that, about 2-3X the price...
Tell me, what makes your barely 20 minutes of copy, paste, print, cut, stick more valuable than my 6+ hours of artistic skills in practice?
No, it's actually a matter of fact, allow me to explain what you're doing.
This altered elesh norn took me about 6+ hours to complete.
In order to accomplish this, I had to use several artistic skills including color blending, color matching, and paint thinning. As well as having to know how to use the paint brush to achieve the effects desired.
This is artistic value, the alter contains effects hand painted by someone who has the skills to do so.
vs.
You know how long this render took me to make? 20 seconds... I'd assume another 2 minutes to print, and another 18 to cut and stick to a card... The only skill you apply is with a cutting knife. Literally, my non-artistic mother could do this in roughly the same amount of time...
Yet, somehow, your barely 20 minutes of work somehow gets you more money than MY 6+ hours of skill intensive work shown. You know how much the paints I use cost? about $4.25 per pot, and you only get a little 12ml container of it... Yeah, I use the good stuff because you can't match the colors otherwise...
I was barely able to get $20 out of the above Norn, whereas I normally see printed cards going for a lot more than that, about 2-3X the price...
Tell me, what makes your barely 20 minutes of copy, paste, print, cut, stick more valuable than my 6+ hours of artistic skills in practice?
I wouldn't miss this for anything.
well i didn't think we were making this personal...
you may have had a point, were you not wrong. this is my elesh norn:
i spent hours altering this as well, about 10 hours in fact. and it takes several more hours to actually apply this to a card. each tiny little bit is cut out by hand, this isn't printed directly on a card.
i'm not going to argue that there aren't print alterers that do what you said, but the same could be said of paint alterers as well. some people just don't try very hard. i only meant that the medium someone uses to alter a card is not indicative of the actual amount of work put into them, nor their artistic value.
well i didn't think we were making this personal...
you may have had a point, were you not wrong. this is my elesh norn:
i spent hours altering this as well, about 10 hours in fact. and it takes several more hours to actually apply this to a card. each tiny little bit is cut out by hand, this isn't printed directly on a card.
i'm not going to argue that there aren't print alterers that do what you said, but the same could be said of paint alterers as well. some people just don't try very hard. i only meant that the medium someone uses to alter a card is not indicative of the actual amount of work put into them, nor their artistic value.
Gee, I didn't know Elesh norn had giant honkers like that... wouldn't that fall under the modifcation that you yourself said was wrongful infringement? Game, set, match.
because you are creating what is called an "adaptive work". you are taking the original work (forest), and altering it with the unicorn sticker, hence creating a "new" work using the original forest as a base. now, no one is every going to be prosecuted for putting unicorn stickers on forests, but it does technically still fall under the adaptive works form of copyright infringement. under the letter of the law, putting a unicorn sticker on a forest in order to change the original forest art is no different than taking an oil painting of a forest that someone has done, and painting in a unicorn of your own design. both are adaptive works, and both are copyright infringement. one is simply more likely to get you in trouble, since the oil painting will likely net you more than $5, and the original artist is more likely to press charges if he sees the changes.
EDIT: also, this only works if the item is considered art and falls under copyright. obviously it is not illegal to combine objects and sell them, otherwise we wouldn't have things like food and clothing. but if you take "art" you don't own the copyright to and change it (even if you don't sell it), that is technically copyright infringement. case in point, someone was repainting and reselling Marvel Comics statues (not in some crazy way, just doing a better paint job then the factory did). seems totally legit, but he was sued for infringement because he isn't allowed to repaint (and therefor adapt) the work.
I went and looked, it seems that that norn isn't the first copyrighted artwork you've modified... making larger breated, more scantily clad elspeths,
even Modifying Steve Argyle's alternate Liliana of the Veil artwork!
You're guilty by your own admission and from the evidence i've seen!
The sexualized alters you do AREN'T allowed by the DCI or WotC... Making planeswalkers dress more scantily and giving them bigger breasts counts as such.
Gee, I didn't know Elesh norn had giant honkers like that... wouldn't that fall under the modifcation that you yourself said was wrongful infringement? Game, set, match.
I went and looked, it seems that that norn isn't the first copyrighted artwork you've modified... making larger breated, more scantily clad elspeths,
even Modifying Steve Argyle's alternate Liliana of the Veil artwork!
You're guilty by your own admission and from the evidence i've seen!
The sexualized alters you do AREN'T allowed by the DCI or WotC... Making planeswalkers dress more scantily and giving them bigger breasts counts as such.
ugh. are you a child? please stop with the "i can't wait to hear this" and "game set match" crap. no one ever wins an online argument.
if you had actually bothered to READ THE THREAD, you would know i already stated that what ALL alter artists do is copyright infringement. that was THE WHOLE POINT of my responses to that other fellow. i was stating that even though altering MTG cards is technically infringement, it is wizards own choice for what type of alterations to "allow".
my POINT which you seem so eager to miss is that the medium used (print, paint, marker, crayon, pencil, pen, chisel, dirt, etc, etc) to alter a MTG card is completely irrelevant when it comes to copyright law. the ONLY thing that matters is taking a copyrighted work and changing it. just drawing a smiley face on a plains is technically infringement.
PS.. Elesh Norn does have breasts, in the majority of the artwork portraying her. i felt the character looked better with them so i added them in. i apologize if the female form offends your delicate sensibilities.
ugh. are you a child? please stop with the "i can't wait to hear this" and "game set match" crap. no one ever wins an online argument.
if you had actually bothered to READ THE THREAD, you would know i already stated that what ALL alter artists do is copyright infringement. that was THE WHOLE POINT of my responses to that other fellow. i was stating that even though altering MTG cards is technically infringement, it is wizards own choice for what type of alterations to "allow".
my POINT which you seem so eager to miss is that the medium used (print, paint, marker, crayon, pencil, pen, chisel, dirt, etc, etc) to alter a MTG card is completely irrelevant when it comes to copyright law. the ONLY thing that matters is taking a copyrighted work and changing it. just drawing a smiley face on a plains is technically infringement.
PS.. Elesh Norn does have breasts, in the majority of the artwork portraying her. i felt the character looked better with them so i added them in. i apologize if the female form offends your delicate sensibilities.
Just stop now, before you make yourself look any worse...
Seriously, let's take a look at some of your other work, shall we?
You turned Jace Beleren, a known male character, into a woman...
You took an artwork of Chandra, cut away part of her armor and made her breasts flop out.
You took Tamiyo's clothes off and left her with just her top robe... showing the bottom of her breast.
You made a 75% naked Teysa...
You gave Elspeth Giant boobs and took her pants off...
You altered Steve Argyle's alternate Liliana of The Veil, which I'm sure is something HE'D like to know considering that version wasn't the one WotC copyrighted... so Technically, you stole HIS art, not WotCs.
Shirtless Jaya Ballard...
Half Naked Avacyn...
You've SEXUALIZED a good chunk of MTG cards, They're no better than the damn big boob anime lands i see on ebay ALL THE TIME...
Plus, if an altered piece is sexualized in any way, it's not DCI legal. Altering the bodies of copyrighted female characters to enhance their sexual appeal is, by your own definition, wrong.
I'm not offended by the female body, i'm offended by your visualization of them as sex-objects... Scantily clad, big breasted sex objects...
The female body doesn't offend me, you and everyone like you, offend me...
I feel inclined to reiterate, the DCI doesn't like these types of alters, mainly because DCI Sanctioned magic is played in public areas, usually areas that cater to minors... Seriously, if you can't see my issue with this then I honestly don't know what would make you see the issue... How would you feel if your 10 year old son saw a Big boobed, half naked card, traded for it, then brought it to their school and got in trouble for it? Seriously... The less of those types of alters out there, the better.
I love me some boobies, but WOW - Withering, the stuff you do is just tasteless.
In addition, you are FAR more likely to be found in violation of copyright. First off, standard alters can be considered derivative works (though it is a stretch, it is possible). The issue at hand is whether the new expression that contains significant parts of a protected work displays sufficient originality. Slapping tits on WotC art is, in my opinion, unoriginal at best and would likely not be found sufficiently original by a court. I'm surprised WotC hasn't come banging on your door yet.
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Commander Decks G MGC WB Teysa Tokens BR Wortsnort UG 23.5-No Edric URG Noncombo Animar GUB Damia Stax WBR Alesha Hatebear Recursion WBR Daddy Tariel UBR [Je]love-a Your Deck GWU Almost Critterless Enchantress WUB Sydri+Artifacts=WUB WURG Glint-Eye Combo
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USC-Minor is actually a Warning, and upgrades to a game loss on subsequent infractions. This isn't cheating, it's just being a jerk, and in the vast majority of cases, being a jerk doesn't lead to a DQ unless some other offenses are committed on the way.
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1. Every card in the deck is nonfoil, so it would be obvious where the foil alteration began and original card textbox/name ended.
2. The art used was super/extended version of the actual artwork on the card, so nobody could say the art was unrecognizable.
3. EVERY card in the deck had this done. Any suspicions that I could tell the cards apart by their weight, stiffness, etc. would not be an issue.
EDH:
UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness
BGW Ghave's Garden
WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count
Vintage:
URWelder
WUBRG Dredge
Kitchen Table:
B Zombies in Your Head
Sorry to bump this old topic, but I wanted to say I just bought a foil Vesuva from this guy via eBay,
and I am *beyond* impressed- it is absolutely stunning.
After reading your comment, I took a whiff, and it does indeed have a solvent smell,
but it is very, very faint.
I don't think I'd want to risk using it in a tournament since it may not be allowed,
but I can't wait to put it in one of my EDH decks.
And for those appalled by the Liliana price-
just contact the guy and commission one.
I've just commissioned a boatload of cards for EDH,
and I'm only paying card price +$5.
It seems like a very good deal to me,
since all I play is EDH.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
From what I have read, there more stiff and some are worse than others.
I read one user say he does not cut it ever time, but can tell right away by how it feels its "the card".
One guy who's only sold a handful must have been using very poor materials, his cards were stiff and heavy.
From conversations with WOTC concerning alters (I report a ton of proxies and also needed clarification), they concern themselves most if the card has been changed from one card into another. Meaning taking a foil island and turning it into a Snapcaster Mage. Taking that same island and making it into a non-infringing island they seem to have no trouble with (as long as you're not using mana symbols/frame elements/expansion symbols/etc.).
Most of the artwork seems to be coming from DeviantArt. Attributing that one card to Daenerys Targaryen is really funny, and I'm not really clear on whether they pay royalties for all the artwork.
I tried taking their images and just printing them out on glossy photo paper using my good inkjet printer and it looks nice enough, but it doesn't seem like a substitute for the real thing because they have some nice foil effects going on, and they also keep the original card text untouched, which is much sharper than what my printer can produce.
step 1. print a nice foil picture over a Tamiyo
step 2. sell it on eBay and get multiple bids over $220 Link removed.
step 3. profit!
That is insane! I scrolled through his other sales, and that one is a bit of an anomaly- most of them are going for $15 or so.
It makes me worried as to how much the artists commissioned for these cards are getting out of this. It takes a lot of work to create a work of art, not to mention a lot of hours involved. Besides, the whole point of an altered card is to have something unique- at least, it is to me. The whole thing just rubs me the wrong way...
Rogue Bard Media - My gallery and info on commissions can now be found right here!
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$305 on the Tamiyo now!
It's hard to imagine why people are bidding that much, when the seller is probably going to put a few more copies of it up for buy-it-now for under $60 in about 2 weeks.
The guys behind these cards claim to be paying commissions. However, there have been many complaints that they're just outright stealing the art.
RRR Buy some of my art! Prints! RRR
I just re-read this full topic and aside from second-hand posts like "my friend found his art on the card," have there been any substantiated cases of an original artist (or copyright holder) finding their art on one of these alters, and then them contacting Alteredprints to request royalties and getting denied?
I did look through the Alteredprints facebook page, and apparently in the "Daenerys Targaryen" art credit case it turned out to be that there's an artist who goes under that pseudonym when posting their Game of Thrones fan art online.
I hate to assist in Necroing this old thread, but i've contacted WotC about the Comic Mania Customs guy on ebay, HE keeps using copyrighted artwork and making non-foil cards foil. without giving artist/wotc credit for the artwork. WotC owns the copyrights to each artwork they print, along with the artists who make them. This guy finally got me to contact WotC because he used Kekai Kotaki's Liliana vess on an M11 one, he's obviously making a profit on other's work, and seriously, it just makes me angry.
Obviously, Kekai isn't making anything from this guy, neither is Aleksi Briclot, neither is RK Post, and etc.
If you find ebay listings using printed stickers and using artwork from the original cards without crediting them, report, report, report! Also, contact wotc, let them know it bothers you. I've been in contact with them, and trust me, it bothers them too. I'm sure if the artists knew their artwork was being used without their permission, they'd be bothered by it too.
The only way they're going to learn is by spreading the word of their evils. Reporting them to ebay, making public comments on their auctions, etc. contacting people buying their items. It's a cumulative effect that will inevitably stop the theft of artwork and ultimately, their profitable theft won't be so profitable anymore...
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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On abugames.com I noticed the art they put on their Lotleth Troll alter was a piece Kekai Kotaki did for Guild Wars 2. I emailed him about it and he had no idea they were using his art. He advised me to contact ArenaNet, the company that makes Guild Wars. I also looked at ArenaNet's terms of use policy while I was there and AlteredPrints is definitely violating it.
A lot of the art on their other alters I have seen before while browsing art on the internet. I think it's likely that most of their art is stolen.
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Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at, a lot of the art that these sticker-printing guys use, is stolen.
However, nothing will get done about it because if the stolen art is WotC commissioned for a card, they'll say they'll do something, then dont... I told them 4 months ago that someone was stealing their art and just blowing it up, pasting it on stickers, slapping them on cards and making profit, and they didn't really do anything...
Heck, even Daarken lead a crusade against art theft, and it really had no effect, if companies don't pursue it, nothing gets done.
And yes, Daarken did lead a fight against a card game that stole his art, I don't remember if it was settled or not, but the guy blatantly lied to Daarken and it really grinded the artist community's gears.
I think if companies got spammed mail about these topics, they'd be more willing to do something.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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the idea here is "what constitutes copyright infringement" and "what kind of infringement is tolerated?".
the reason wizards doesn't go after "print" alters is the same reason they don't go after traditional paint, pencil, or marker alters. they all fall under the same type of copyright infringement. it is just as illegal to paint and resell a Thragtusk as it is to print out a picture of Thrastusk and put it on a card. so long as they aren't creating a fake card, the only difference between the two is the medium used. whether or not painted alters are considered more "artistic" than print alters is a matter of opinion or semantics. fact is, both equally violate wizards copyright (both are adaptive works).
so then it is left up to wizards to decide what they will tolerate from their alter fanbase and what they will not. through my own dealings with them, it seems that so long as you are not creating "new" product (fake cards), proxy cards, or using nudity or overtly sexual themes, and aren't stealing art from other non-wizards sources, they don't feel inclined to go after you.
however the original point that was made, about art being taken from other (non-wizards) games or websites and being used for alters without permission, i totally agree with. i can't myself confirm that AlteredPrints is using art without permission, but i do know from experience that wizards doesn't take kindly to you using non-wizards art without permission. taking wizards art for non-wizards products is also something they would likely have issue with.
anyway, i just wanted to add my 2 cents about the whole situation.
I don't understand this part.
If I take a forest card, and I put a unicorn sticker on it, and resell it for $5, how does that violate anyone's copyright?
I understand how it would violate copyright if I scanned my forest + unicorn and was selling the digital artwork (because the forest part contains copyrighted art), but if I own a forest card and I own a unicorn sticker, and both are perfectly legal by themselves to resell, why can't I put them together and sell it?
because you are creating what is called an "adaptive work". you are taking the original work (forest), and altering it with the unicorn sticker, hence creating a "new" work using the original forest as a base. now, no one is every going to be prosecuted for putting unicorn stickers on forests, but it does technically still fall under the adaptive works form of copyright infringement. under the letter of the law, putting a unicorn sticker on a forest in order to change the original forest art is no different than taking an oil painting of a forest that someone has done, and painting in a unicorn of your own design. both are adaptive works, and both are copyright infringement. one is simply more likely to get you in trouble, since the oil painting will likely net you more than $5, and the original artist is more likely to press charges if he sees the changes.
EDIT: also, this only works if the item is considered art and falls under copyright. obviously it is not illegal to combine objects and sell them, otherwise we wouldn't have things like food and clothing. but if you take "art" you don't own the copyright to and change it (even if you don't sell it), that is technically copyright infringement. case in point, someone was repainting and reselling Marvel Comics statues (not in some crazy way, just doing a better paint job then the factory did). seems totally legit, but he was sued for infringement because he isn't allowed to repaint (and therefor adapt) the work.
No, it's actually a matter of fact, allow me to explain what you're doing.
This altered elesh norn took me about 6+ hours to complete.
In order to accomplish this, I had to use several artistic skills including color blending, color matching, and paint thinning. As well as having to know how to use the paint brush to achieve the effects desired.
This is artistic value, the alter contains effects hand painted by someone who has the skills to do so.
vs.
You know how long this render took me to make? 20 seconds... I'd assume another 2 minutes to print, and another 18 to cut and stick to a card... The only skill you apply is with a cutting knife. Literally, my non-artistic mother could do this in roughly the same amount of time...
Yet, somehow, your barely 20 minutes of work somehow gets you more money than MY 6+ hours of skill intensive work shown. You know how much the paints I use cost? about $4.25 per pot, and you only get a little 12ml container of it... Yeah, I use the good stuff because you can't match the colors otherwise...
I was barely able to get $20 out of the above Norn, whereas I normally see printed cards going for a lot more than that, about 2-3X the price...
Tell me, what makes your barely 20 minutes of copy, paste, print, cut, stick more valuable than my 6+ hours of artistic skills in practice?
I wouldn't miss this for anything.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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well i didn't think we were making this personal...
you may have had a point, were you not wrong. this is my elesh norn:
i spent hours altering this as well, about 10 hours in fact. and it takes several more hours to actually apply this to a card. each tiny little bit is cut out by hand, this isn't printed directly on a card.
i'm not going to argue that there aren't print alterers that do what you said, but the same could be said of paint alterers as well. some people just don't try very hard. i only meant that the medium someone uses to alter a card is not indicative of the actual amount of work put into them, nor their artistic value.
Gee, I didn't know Elesh norn had giant honkers like that... wouldn't that fall under the modifcation that you yourself said was wrongful infringement? Game, set, match.
I went and looked, it seems that that norn isn't the first copyrighted artwork you've modified... making larger breated, more scantily clad elspeths,
even Modifying Steve Argyle's alternate Liliana of the Veil artwork!
You're guilty by your own admission and from the evidence i've seen!
The sexualized alters you do AREN'T allowed by the DCI or WotC... Making planeswalkers dress more scantily and giving them bigger breasts counts as such.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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ugh. are you a child? please stop with the "i can't wait to hear this" and "game set match" crap. no one ever wins an online argument.
if you had actually bothered to READ THE THREAD, you would know i already stated that what ALL alter artists do is copyright infringement. that was THE WHOLE POINT of my responses to that other fellow. i was stating that even though altering MTG cards is technically infringement, it is wizards own choice for what type of alterations to "allow".
my POINT which you seem so eager to miss is that the medium used (print, paint, marker, crayon, pencil, pen, chisel, dirt, etc, etc) to alter a MTG card is completely irrelevant when it comes to copyright law. the ONLY thing that matters is taking a copyrighted work and changing it. just drawing a smiley face on a plains is technically infringement.
PS.. Elesh Norn does have breasts, in the majority of the artwork portraying her. i felt the character looked better with them so i added them in. i apologize if the female form offends your delicate sensibilities.
Just stop now, before you make yourself look any worse...
Seriously, let's take a look at some of your other work, shall we?
You turned Jace Beleren, a known male character, into a woman...
You took an artwork of Chandra, cut away part of her armor and made her breasts flop out.
You took Tamiyo's clothes off and left her with just her top robe... showing the bottom of her breast.
You made a 75% naked Teysa...
You gave Elspeth Giant boobs and took her pants off...
You altered Steve Argyle's alternate Liliana of The Veil, which I'm sure is something HE'D like to know considering that version wasn't the one WotC copyrighted... so Technically, you stole HIS art, not WotCs.
Shirtless Jaya Ballard...
Half Naked Avacyn...
You've SEXUALIZED a good chunk of MTG cards, They're no better than the damn big boob anime lands i see on ebay ALL THE TIME...
Plus, if an altered piece is sexualized in any way, it's not DCI legal. Altering the bodies of copyrighted female characters to enhance their sexual appeal is, by your own definition, wrong.
I'm not offended by the female body, i'm offended by your visualization of them as sex-objects... Scantily clad, big breasted sex objects...
The female body doesn't offend me, you and everyone like you, offend me...
I feel inclined to reiterate, the DCI doesn't like these types of alters, mainly because DCI Sanctioned magic is played in public areas, usually areas that cater to minors... Seriously, if you can't see my issue with this then I honestly don't know what would make you see the issue... How would you feel if your 10 year old son saw a Big boobed, half naked card, traded for it, then brought it to their school and got in trouble for it? Seriously... The less of those types of alters out there, the better.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
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In addition, you are FAR more likely to be found in violation of copyright. First off, standard alters can be considered derivative works (though it is a stretch, it is possible). The issue at hand is whether the new expression that contains significant parts of a protected work displays sufficient originality. Slapping tits on WotC art is, in my opinion, unoriginal at best and would likely not be found sufficiently original by a court. I'm surprised WotC hasn't come banging on your door yet.
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