Haven't done cards in a while. Here's some older ones I liked:
Industrialize :1mana::symu:
Enchantment - Aura (U)
Enchant land
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, it produces instead of its normal type and amount.
Bloodsire Count :2mana::symb::symb:
Creature - Vampire (R)
Bloodsire Count gets +1/+1 for each other Vampire creature you control.
:symb::symb:, :symtap:: Gain control of target creature if its power is less than or equal to Bloodsire Count's power. That creature becomes a Vampire in addition to its other types.
2/2
Empathic Hydra :xmana::symg::symg:
Creature - Hydra (R)
Empathic Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Whenever you or Empathic Hydra are dealt damage, put that many +1/+1 counters on Empathic Hydra.
0/0
LOVE industrialize. The flavor is strong, the card is clean, and I like that it can shut off duals or be used for ramp. I wonder if it's undercosted, thinking maybe 2U might be more appropriate.
I like Bloodsire Count, though it feels a little close the the M11 vampire lord, whatever his name was. It's strong otherwise, I like the idea of him being a 5/5 on turn 4 if you curve out correctly.
I'm not sure about Empathic Hydra, either. The second trigger feels a bit easy; maybe it should happen at end of turn instead?
I love the flavor of Industrialize, but mechanically it's a better fit for green or maybe red. The same flavor still works in red, so maybe that's the best color for it.
I too like industrialize, and think it would reach maximum greatness if made red.
The vampire worries me. I feel like the creatures he steals should either die or go back to their controller or something when you lose control of him.
The Hydra is also interesting. It's probably acceptable, just don't go and slap trample on it.
If it made red mana, then I could see it being red. Colorless is usually made by artifacts or by the color that does a lot with artifacts, which is blue. The industrial aspect doesn't really fit the flavor-bill for red either; that kind of thing just happens during any colors road to dominance. With their Grand Architects and other artifice/building themes, I think blue is the way to go. I could see why red players would want it for sure, but it just doesn't seem like it would fit.
Although, since we're talking Land enchants, why not UG? It fits between both colors perfectly. And a cost of two colored mana would be a tad more fair. And they have the most land enchants (or at least have of recent years).
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Master Biomancer's flavor text should read 'My DNA - I put that ---- in everything'.
Industrialize - It is a Wild Growth effect bleached by a Pale Moon effect. While there was Ritual of Subdual, this doesn't feel appropriate in green. I think red could get better. Blue is an okay color for this. Wording from Contamination:
If enchanted land is tapped for mana, it produces 2 instead of any other type and amount.
When used like Spreading Seas to hurt someone's mana, it doesn't remove nonmana abilities, it gives an extra mana, and it doesn't cantrip. That seems fair given the versatility of being able to also use it on your own land to ramp.
Bloodsire Count - It feels out of color and I don't like that he gets really big just so that he can use a tap ability. If it instead had something like Soul Collector's ability, I think it would be cooler and a better color fit.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Soul Collector this turn dies, return that card to the battlefield under your control. If it's a creature, it's a Vampire in addition to its other types.
Empathic Hydra - Monocolored Retaliator Griffin plus Phytohydra. I think "that many" is the problem here. If it was just one counter, similar to Fungusaur, the cost would be fine. Fungusaur is a little awkward because if it is blocked and damaged by two or more creatures, it only gets one counter. That could be fixed though:
Whenever a source deals damage to you or Empathic Hydra, put a +1/+1 counter on Empathic Hydra.
For all of you; I don't understand how a card called "Industrialize" that essentially turns a land into a factory could possibly be red. Please explain.
Factories are also red. Furnaces, molten lava, banging hammers, and all that. See the original Mirrodin's Krark Clan and Urabrask's layer.
I'm not sure if either case is really industrializing, or at least it isn't their focus. Scavenging goblins with furnaces and a big hasty (yet not entirely unfriendly) Praetor with a bunch of minions who now use the furnaces that were used in the past by said goblins; in neither case does it sound like true industrialization is the focus, just a byproduct of their work. Just like anybody could have a furnace/factory for smelting and smithing, yet not be an industrialist; just someone who likes to smelt/smith.
Also, all factories to date have been lands that generate colorless mana... so it's hard to justify them now being red.
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Master Biomancer's flavor text should read 'My DNA - I put that ---- in everything'.
Imagine the card was from Ravnica. That plane is filled with red-aligned industrial buildings. The fact that the card itself doesn't produce red mana doesn't make the flavor basis less sound.
It feels red to me in that it's either acceleration for yourself at the cost of producing colored mana, or denying an opponent colored mana at the cost of accelerating them. Either way, it's a somewhat shortsighted way of getting something done that you want at the price of a drawback.
I think it can go in either blue or red. Industrialization can be conceived in several ways, and both the R and the U takes on it allow for this design.
Here is my issue: do we want permanent ramp in either of those colors? Isn't the concept of "industrialization" better represented by playing a "factory"-themed artifact, via "show, don't tell"?
Here is my issue: do we want permanent ramp in either of those colors? Isn't the concept of "industrialization" better represented by playing a "factory"-themed artifact, via "show, don't tell"?
This assumes implicitely the two options are exclusive in some way. I personally feel quiet the opposite. I suggest that a set that would get a card like Industrialize would just as likely have further cards that showcase the theme of industrialization in a different manner.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I love Industrialize. Both flavorly and mechanically, it is really similar to Mana Purification from Archester. Personally, I believe it should be blue, though I can see the argument for it being put it in Red...
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Thanks for all the feedback. I hadn't put much thought into making Industrialize red; I agree it's a good fit there.
Guess I was trying to be too clever with the Vampire. I love silvercut's fix for removing the tap ability, thanks for that.
I have a thing for Hydras. Again I like silvercut's fix so it only gets one counter; without that it is a bit dicey when stacked up against cards of similar power.
Haven't done cards in a while. Here's some older ones I liked:
Industrialize :1mana::symu:
Enchantment - Aura (U)
Enchant land
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, it produces instead of its normal type and amount.
Bloodsire Count :2mana::symb::symb:
Creature - Vampire (R)
Bloodsire Count gets +1/+1 for each other Vampire creature you control.
:symb::symb:, :symtap:: Gain control of target creature if its power is less than or equal to Bloodsire Count's power. That creature becomes a Vampire in addition to its other types.
2/2
Empathic Hydra :xmana::symg::symg:
Creature - Hydra (R)
Empathic Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Whenever you or Empathic Hydra are dealt damage, put that many +1/+1 counters on Empathic Hydra.
0/0
I also like Industrialize, either in red or blue. I also really like the Bloodsire Count, but agree that it seems contradictory to tap a huge creature. What if he tapped another Vampire, but could only be used once per turn? Also, I like the idea that he is overpowering things, so I feel that it would be better if it was only creatures that are explicitly weaker than he is. Something like:
Bloodsire Count :2mana::symb::symb:
Creature - Vampire (R)
Bloodsire Count gets +1/+1 for each other Vampire creature you control.
:symb::symb:, tap another untapped Vampire you control: Gain control of target creature if its power is less than Bloodsire Count's power. That creature becomes a Vampire in addition to its other types. Use this ability only once per turn.
2/2
Since there's a bit of contention as to whether industrialize should be blue or red, why not make it blue AND red, and add a cantrip to push the power level of spreading seas a bit? In standard spreading seas saw a decent amount of play, but ONLY to put your opponents off a color or shut down utility lands. This isn't particularly good at shutting off your opponent's lands since it ramps them, so most of the time you'll be putting this on your own lands.
Here is what I propose:
Industrialize RU
Enchantment -- Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land loses all abilities and gains "T: Add 2 to your mana pool."
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw a card.
That way you can still shut off your opponents lands if you REALLY HAVE TO, but it ramps up your opponents, which you generally don't want. It can also be used to ramp yourself if you need to. Since I think you could argue whether this or spreading seas is better to have, and this has a more restrictive mana cost, I think this is OK. Plus I like the flavor of the industrial sprawl making the land lose all its natural magical ability.
How do people feel about making it a multi-colored hybrid a la Spectral Procession, but requiring that one or the other be spent?
Industrialize :sym2u::sym2r:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land loses all abilities and gains "T: Add 2 to your mana pool."
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw a card.
When ~ enters the battlefield, if neither U or R was spent to cast it, sacrifice ~.
How do people feel about making it a multi-colored hybrid a la Spectral Procession, but requiring that one or the other be spent?
Industrialize :sym2u::sym2r:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land loses all abilities and gains "T: Add 2 to your mana pool."
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw a card.
When ~ enters the battlefield, if neither U or R was spent to cast it, sacrifice ~.
I like making it a colorless hybrid, but I don't think the last line is really necessary, since 4 mana for this effect is already pretty weak
Fair enough. It also does make it pretty wordy. I just figured this way it could be red or blue (or both), but it wouldn't be run in green, white or black. I guess if someone in those colors really want this effect at 4, though, they can have it.
I have always wanted wizards to do something like this besides the Reaper King. Also, I like the idea that it would be cheaper in a r/u deck than either one by itself, but it may be more complication than is necessary.
I think conceptually multicolor twobrid cards are okay in a set that is already using hybrid mana. They are slightly harder to design than normal though because they have to be okay in colorless too (i.e.: no (2/G)(2/W)Disenchant because that is not a colorless effect, but maybe a (2/G)(2/W)Gerrard's Command). Also, as a person opinion, I think mixing twobrid mana with normal or colorless mana should usually be avoided.
If Industrialize were going into a set with other hybrid cards, a cost of (2/U)(2/R) could work.
As much as I like twobrid, I don't think Industrialize is a good place for it. A twobrid spell should be based in the color that usually gets that ability, in this case green, making it significant that there's a colorless option for casting that spell. Think:
Two-brid ramp :sym2g::sym2g:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, its controller adds an additional mana of that color to his or her mana pool.
This is a card a green deck or blue deck might play. Twobrid Industrialize is a card a blue deck might play, but a green deck would not. In designing twobrid cards, there's already a struggle to make the higher colorless cost look appealing without making the card overpowered. Twobrid Industrialize is more limited in which colors would play it for its higher colorless cost, making it less appealing than the green equivalent.
In short, paying :1mana::symu: for mana ramp is already an aggressive cost for an off-color ability. Making that same card available to all colors adds little, since it's already based in the color that would have wanted the colorless version.
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Industrialize :1mana::symu:
Enchantment - Aura (U)
Enchant land
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, it produces instead of its normal type and amount.
Bloodsire Count :2mana::symb::symb:
Creature - Vampire (R)
Bloodsire Count gets +1/+1 for each other Vampire creature you control.
:symb::symb:, :symtap:: Gain control of target creature if its power is less than or equal to Bloodsire Count's power. That creature becomes a Vampire in addition to its other types.
2/2
Empathic Hydra :xmana::symg::symg:
Creature - Hydra (R)
Empathic Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Whenever you or Empathic Hydra are dealt damage, put that many +1/+1 counters on Empathic Hydra.
0/0
I like Bloodsire Count, though it feels a little close the the M11 vampire lord, whatever his name was. It's strong otherwise, I like the idea of him being a 5/5 on turn 4 if you curve out correctly.
I'm not sure about Empathic Hydra, either. The second trigger feels a bit easy; maybe it should happen at end of turn instead?
When in doubt, call a judge.
Objectivist here. Hit me up to talk philosophy.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
The vampire worries me. I feel like the creatures he steals should either die or go back to their controller or something when you lose control of him.
The Hydra is also interesting. It's probably acceptable, just don't go and slap trample on it.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Although, since we're talking Land enchants, why not UG? It fits between both colors perfectly. And a cost of two colored mana would be a tad more fair. And they have the most land enchants (or at least have of recent years).
If enchanted land is tapped for mana, it produces 2 instead of any other type and amount.
When used like Spreading Seas to hurt someone's mana, it doesn't remove nonmana abilities, it gives an extra mana, and it doesn't cantrip. That seems fair given the versatility of being able to also use it on your own land to ramp.
Bloodsire Count - It feels out of color and I don't like that he gets really big just so that he can use a tap ability. If it instead had something like Soul Collector's ability, I think it would be cooler and a better color fit.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Soul Collector this turn dies, return that card to the battlefield under your control. If it's a creature, it's a Vampire in addition to its other types.
Empathic Hydra - Monocolored Retaliator Griffin plus Phytohydra. I think "that many" is the problem here. If it was just one counter, similar to Fungusaur, the cost would be fine. Fungusaur is a little awkward because if it is blocked and damaged by two or more creatures, it only gets one counter. That could be fixed though:
Whenever a source deals damage to you or Empathic Hydra, put a +1/+1 counter on Empathic Hydra.
When in doubt, call a judge.
Objectivist here. Hit me up to talk philosophy.
I'm not sure if either case is really industrializing, or at least it isn't their focus. Scavenging goblins with furnaces and a big hasty (yet not entirely unfriendly) Praetor with a bunch of minions who now use the furnaces that were used in the past by said goblins; in neither case does it sound like true industrialization is the focus, just a byproduct of their work. Just like anybody could have a furnace/factory for smelting and smithing, yet not be an industrialist; just someone who likes to smelt/smith.
Also, all factories to date have been lands that generate colorless mana... so it's hard to justify them now being red.
It feels red to me in that it's either acceleration for yourself at the cost of producing colored mana, or denying an opponent colored mana at the cost of accelerating them. Either way, it's a somewhat shortsighted way of getting something done that you want at the price of a drawback.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Here is my issue: do we want permanent ramp in either of those colors? Isn't the concept of "industrialization" better represented by playing a "factory"-themed artifact, via "show, don't tell"?
This assumes implicitely the two options are exclusive in some way. I personally feel quiet the opposite. I suggest that a set that would get a card like Industrialize would just as likely have further cards that showcase the theme of industrialization in a different manner.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Guess I was trying to be too clever with the Vampire. I love silvercut's fix for removing the tap ability, thanks for that.
I have a thing for Hydras. Again I like silvercut's fix so it only gets one counter; without that it is a bit dicey when stacked up against cards of similar power.
Thanks again, everybody.
I also like Industrialize, either in red or blue. I also really like the Bloodsire Count, but agree that it seems contradictory to tap a huge creature. What if he tapped another Vampire, but could only be used once per turn? Also, I like the idea that he is overpowering things, so I feel that it would be better if it was only creatures that are explicitly weaker than he is. Something like:
Bloodsire Count :2mana::symb::symb:
Creature - Vampire (R)
Bloodsire Count gets +1/+1 for each other Vampire creature you control.
:symb::symb:, tap another untapped Vampire you control: Gain control of target creature if its power is less than Bloodsire Count's power. That creature becomes a Vampire in addition to its other types. Use this ability only once per turn.
2/2
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Here is what I propose:
Industrialize RU
Enchantment -- Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land loses all abilities and gains "T: Add 2 to your mana pool."
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw a card.
That way you can still shut off your opponents lands if you REALLY HAVE TO, but it ramps up your opponents, which you generally don't want. It can also be used to ramp yourself if you need to. Since I think you could argue whether this or spreading seas is better to have, and this has a more restrictive mana cost, I think this is OK. Plus I like the flavor of the industrial sprawl making the land lose all its natural magical ability.
Industrialize :sym2u::sym2r:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land loses all abilities and gains "T: Add 2 to your mana pool."
When ~ enters the battlefield, draw a card.
When ~ enters the battlefield, if neither U or R was spent to cast it, sacrifice ~.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I like making it a colorless hybrid, but I don't think the last line is really necessary, since 4 mana for this effect is already pretty weak
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
If Industrialize were going into a set with other hybrid cards, a cost of (2/U)(2/R) could work.
Two-brid ramp :sym2g::sym2g:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, its controller adds an additional mana of that color to his or her mana pool.
This is a card a green deck or blue deck might play. Twobrid Industrialize is a card a blue deck might play, but a green deck would not. In designing twobrid cards, there's already a struggle to make the higher colorless cost look appealing without making the card overpowered. Twobrid Industrialize is more limited in which colors would play it for its higher colorless cost, making it less appealing than the green equivalent.
In short, paying :1mana::symu: for mana ramp is already an aggressive cost for an off-color ability. Making that same card available to all colors adds little, since it's already based in the color that would have wanted the colorless version.