haste on the red one is pointless because the nature of the untap mechanic means you will never be unable to attack with a land the turn you play this. it already has haste.
haste on the red one is pointless because the nature of the untap mechanic means you will never be unable to attack with a land the turn you play this. it already has haste.
A land that ETBed and becomes a creature the same turn becomes summoning sick, no?
A land that ETBed and becomes a creature the same turn becomes summoning sick, no?
my point is, can you imagine a regular scenario in which you are unable to attack with a land the same turn you play any of these auras? maybe i wasn't clear enough but deduce what i meant by "the nature of the untap mechanic"...
my point is, can you imagine a regular scenario in which you are unable to attack with a land the same turn you play any of these auras? maybe i wasn't clear enough but deduce what i meant by "the nature of the untap mechanic"...
Got it. I see your point - why wouldn't I just play this Aura on my land that didn't ETB this turn?
To be fair, there are corner cases where this matters - Llanowar Reborn, for instance. But is first strike too good on it?
I dunno! I'll probably try that.
Now that I'm realizing that proper play effectively grants these all haste, I'm also realizing that they're all powerful in a way that I had not previously realized. For now I'm going under the assumption that they're not so powerful that I have to start gimping them. We'll see. I want to make animated land cards that people will actually use.
The nature of land animationg is that you want to play it on a land that you have controlled since the beginning of your turn so that it is not summoning sick and can attack right away. The untap means they effectively cost one mana less than similar land animating Auras. You can tap the targeted land itself for mana to pay for this, then it untaps and can attack right away.
Now that I'm realizing that proper play effectively grants these all haste, I'm also realizing that they're all powerful in a way that I had not previously realized. For now I'm going under the assumption that they're not so powerful that I have to start gimping them. We'll see. I want to make animated land cards that people will actually use.
I guess they're all a little beefy for the cost and effectively with haste, but I think they're good. 1/5 for 2W is on par, 2/3 flyer for 2U is probably okay. We already know about 2/2s for 1B. 3/1 first striker (I'm just assuming this is what you'll go with) for 2R is a little ahead of Viashino Shanktail or Kessig Wolf, but you'd probably be okay? The green one is just fine, too.
In short, these are all decently comparable to existing common creatures; they're no great shakes, but they're pretty playable, especially because you still get mana from them each turn if you need to.
I still think Wind Zendikon is better than the blue one, though.
my point is, can you imagine a regular scenario in which you are unable to attack with a land the same turn you play any of these auras? maybe i wasn't clear enough but deduce what i meant by "the nature of the untap mechanic"...
by nature of the aura, only one land can be enchanted. that means you must choose which land you want to be turned into a creature. if the land that you wanted to attack with happens to come into play this turn, then haste does matter.
by nature of the aura, only one land can be enchanted. that means you must choose which land you want to be turned into a creature. if the land that you wanted to attack with happens to come into play this turn, then haste does matter.
read the rest of the thread. we've already come to the conclusion that if you're playing correctly, there's rarely a reason that you need the land you JUST played to attack. the situations in which you do are corner cases. 99+% of the time haste does not matter.
you mean you always draw the lands you need in the right order in the right time? for instance, shock shock basic, is playing correctly. why would you enchant the shock? or mountain, mountain, nonbasic, enchant the nonbasic.
also, you wouldn't put two of these auras on the same land. if an existing land was already enchanted, then the proper play would be to enchant the new land.
or mountain, mountain, nonbasic, enchant the nonbasic.
yeah i'm pretty sure you're misreading the card because you seem to have contradicted yourself in the very next sentence? but i can't figure out what you think the card does.
also, you wouldn't put two of these auras on the same land. if an existing land was already enchanted, then the proper play would be to enchant the new land.
true except that doesn't disprove my point at all, nor bolster yours? unless you mean a case in which all your lands are enchanted except the one you just played, which is the exact type of corner case i already referred to.
continue by PM if you want but don't keep directing this thread off topic cause everyone else is past this point already.
@Lord of Atlantis: Yes there are gameplay situations where the proper play might be to cast this on the land you just played. But since haste will be redundant in a significant amount of games (most likely the majority of games) I'm not going to bother with it.
also, you wouldn't put two of these auras on the same land. if an existing land was already enchanted, then the proper play would be to enchant the new land.
Wellllll, you CAN construct situations where you would want to double up on these Auras on the same land — like if you have a lot of ways to use mana during your combat phase and you're playing with karoos, you might want to stack untap triggers.
I assume there is some rule that allows us to handle that corner case.
More importantly, I feel like the white Genju in this cycle is really weird, because white doesn't usually pay that much for defensive-leaning creatures.
Also, because these don't bounce the land on death as the Zendikons do, they make for pretty efficient land destruction tools, particularly the red one. It's just not that hard for red to fling one point of damage at a creature.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 1/5 white Spirit creature. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 2/3 blue Spirit creature with flying. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 2/2 black Spirit creature. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 3/1 red Spirit creature with haste. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 4/4 green Spirit creature. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
A land that ETBed and becomes a creature the same turn becomes summoning sick, no?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Yes it does. 302.6.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
my point is, can you imagine a regular scenario in which you are unable to attack with a land the same turn you play any of these auras? maybe i wasn't clear enough but deduce what i meant by "the nature of the untap mechanic"...
One of them had to be. I felt that making the green one the most efficient was a bit obvious.
Now that I can shut the door on Wild Growth-style effects, it gives me leeway to do something more cool and efficient in green.
Got it. I see your point - why wouldn't I just play this Aura on my land that didn't ETB this turn?
To be fair, there are corner cases where this matters - Llanowar Reborn, for instance. But is first strike too good on it?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I dunno! I'll probably try that.
Now that I'm realizing that proper play effectively grants these all haste, I'm also realizing that they're all powerful in a way that I had not previously realized. For now I'm going under the assumption that they're not so powerful that I have to start gimping them. We'll see. I want to make animated land cards that people will actually use.
I guess they're all a little beefy for the cost and effectively with haste, but I think they're good. 1/5 for 2W is on par, 2/3 flyer for 2U is probably okay. We already know about 2/2s for 1B. 3/1 first striker (I'm just assuming this is what you'll go with) for 2R is a little ahead of Viashino Shanktail or Kessig Wolf, but you'd probably be okay? The green one is just fine, too.
In short, these are all decently comparable to existing common creatures; they're no great shakes, but they're pretty playable, especially because you still get mana from them each turn if you need to.
I still think Wind Zendikon is better than the blue one, though.
Good suggestions all around, and some of them are pretty close to the revisions I was thinking:
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 1/3 white Spirit creature. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 2/2 blue Spirit creature with flying. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 3/2 black Spirit creature with lifelink. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 2/1 red Spirit creature. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Enchantment - Aura [C]
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a 4/4 green Spirit creature. It's still a land.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, untap enchanted land.
Granted, things will change in development, but I want to try to get it as right as I can the first time.
by nature of the aura, only one land can be enchanted. that means you must choose which land you want to be turned into a creature. if the land that you wanted to attack with happens to come into play this turn, then haste does matter.
........................
read the rest of the thread. we've already come to the conclusion that if you're playing correctly, there's rarely a reason that you need the land you JUST played to attack. the situations in which you do are corner cases. 99+% of the time haste does not matter.
also, you wouldn't put two of these auras on the same land. if an existing land was already enchanted, then the proper play would be to enchant the new land.
........................
yeah i'm pretty sure you're misreading the card because you seem to have contradicted yourself in the very next sentence? but i can't figure out what you think the card does.
true except that doesn't disprove my point at all, nor bolster yours? unless you mean a case in which all your lands are enchanted except the one you just played, which is the exact type of corner case i already referred to.
continue by PM if you want but don't keep directing this thread off topic cause everyone else is past this point already.
I assume there is some rule that allows us to handle that corner case.
More importantly, I feel like the white Genju in this cycle is really weird, because white doesn't usually pay that much for defensive-leaning creatures.
Also, because these don't bounce the land on death as the Zendikons do, they make for pretty efficient land destruction tools, particularly the red one. It's just not that hard for red to fling one point of damage at a creature.