Ponder are you actually reading posts or just vomiting letters/words into this thread???
No where did I say anything about you getting banned and rianalnn didn't mention anything about underage users in the section he quoted/mod texted.
The bit both of us pulled you up on was that the Gutter supposidly promotes illegal activities. The actions of the Clled if it is an unofffical Gutter clan are compeletly secondary the fact that we know* that Pornography etc is treated as harshly in the Gutter as it is in other sections of the forum.
* Admittedly not from personal experience just from reading what has come up on the other gutter rants.
Your last post, that quoted my original quote, says "If you are dumb enough to post the above the Mods are still going to find it, delete it and ban any and all accounts you have created with the added side effect of letting your local Law enforcement know what you have just posted/linked to."
So yes, your are talking about getting me banned.
And why would I be concerned about being contacted by local authorities? I have done nothing criminal. It makes you appear to bully, that manipulates people by threats.
The Gutter, and therefor this website is the one with the double standards. Why would you want to bring MtG Sally into disrepute? It is a much loved and valued website.
To be honest, you should make sure that I am not right, before you insult, and threaten me. Threats such as that can be taken very seriously. Refrain from them.
I thought this thread was the correct place to raise this point? Otherwise where should I mention that The Gutter openly allows underage members, despite it being an aspect of the entry requirements?
How can you expect people to take you, or your stance seriously when you act like a bully, threatening people, for raising a serious community issue?
For the record I have both sympathy and empathy for the MtGS forum users that want a forum without the word filter. But why would you want it on this private website?
Your last post, that quoted my original quote, says "If you are dumb enough to post the above the Mods are still going to find it, delete it and ban any and all accounts you have created with the added side effect of letting your local Law enforcement know what you have just posted/linked to."
You have misunderstood Kahedron. If [a user] is dumb enough to post [snuff, porno, etc], [that user] will be banned.
If you intend to continue posting in this thread, I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions.
Your last post, that quoted my original quote, says "If you are dumb enough to post the above the Mods are still going to find it, delete it and ban any and all accounts you have created with the added side effect of letting your local Law enforcement know what you have just posted/linked to."
So yes, your are talking about getting me banned.
And why would I be concerned about being contacted by local authorities? I have done nothing criminal. It makes you appear to bully, that manipulates people by threats.
Seriously?
You gotta be kidding me.
Look at the context of his quote. He is not talking about you; he is refering to people who do illegal things like posting snuff.
Your last post, that quoted my original quote, says "If you are dumb enough to post the above the Mods are still going to find it, delete it and ban any and all accounts you have created with the added side effect of letting your local Law enforcement know what you have just posted/linked to."
So yes, your are talking about getting me banned.
I think there is some miscommunication here. I believe that Kahedron meant that if anybody were dumb enough to post the above (i.e. pornography and illegal content), they will be banned. See below: -
I will just say since The Gutter openly allows underage MTG Sally members to participate in it's clan, it should have been closed down long ago.
And the content, why does it belong on a Work-Safe forum? Why not start up an unaffiliated website if you want to post pornography, and illegal content? Why have the most well known and respected independent MtG a breeding ground for questionable, and illegal content?
I would have thought that if MtG Sally members respected the website, in any way, they would not try to connect with immoral, and illegal content, and I see no other reason for The Gutter to exist.
The advertisers paying this website, as a forum for a children's game, are they all aware that there is an aspect of MtGS that prides itself on being exclusive, and unsafe for children, and unsafe for work? Since a lot of traffic is generated by people who are under the impression that this is a Work-Safe board?
I will just reiterate my one point. If you want a forum for pornography, and snuff films, accessible by underage people, why not start up an unaffiliated forum?
Where has anyone said anything like the above is acceptable in the Gutter???
From what I have read both hear and in other Gutter Rant threads is that the Gutter MTGS minus the profanity filter and that is it. If you are dumb enough to post the above the Mods are still going to find it, delete it and ban any and all accounts you have created with the added side effect of letting your local Law enforcement know what you have just posted/linked to.
Your last post, that quoted my original quote, says "If you are dumb enough to post the above the Mods are still going to find it, delete it and ban any and all accounts you have created with the added side effect of letting your local Law enforcement know what you have just posted/linked to."
So yes, your are talking about getting me banned.
I pretty sure he meant: "If you (general "you") are dumb enough to post [illegal content and snuff films] (where did you get this idea, btw?) the Mods are still going to find it, delete it, and ban any and all accounts you have created..."
not
"If you (Ponder) are dumb enough to post [a dissenting opinion] the Mods are still going to find it, delete it, and ban any and all accounts you have created..."
*edit* - I guess that got covered pretty quickly...
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Link please, unless you mean since it's been locked & opened for sake of discussion.
Then please explain: what is this aside from being complete off topic?
Sure here is your link. Forum member pinkfloyd is openly underage, and a member of The Gutter. Please look at his profile.
I would give the Moderator of The Gutter that approved pinkfloyd membership the benefit of the doubt that by photo alone, pinkfloyd may appear adult, if it were not both his age and date of birth clearly indicate he is underage.
This is something I should be allowed to raise concern about without being insulted, or threatened.
I am actually the one person looking after the welfare of the community, I know that most of you dont find it immoral, but it certainly is hypocritical, that The Gutter's entry requirements include being over 18, and you have members and Moderators openly show complete disregard for their own rules.
Wasnt The Gutter's age requirement there to protect children? Or it is just a joke?
Firstly I have nothing wrong with the gutter, even thought not being treated nicely in there. I still don't see the reasoning for it to be closed down.
I'm happy to protest and request its return but changing my sig or title wont do anything.
@rianalnn, I was not ignoring you, I was typing this response.
I would prefer if I was not dragged into this at all thanks.
And you obviously do not understand that one of the reasons I was originally banned was because I was only 17, so get your facts straight before you start something.
Sure here is your link. Forum member pinkfloyd is openly underage, and a member of The Gutter. Please look at his profile.
I would give the Moderator of The Gutter that approved pinkfloyd membership the benefit of the doubt that by photo alone, pinkfloyd may appear adult, if it were not both his age and date of birth clearly indicate he is underage.
This is something I should be allowed to raise concern about without being insulted, or threatened.
I am actually the one person looking after the welfare of the community, I know that most of you dont find it immoral, but it certainly is hypocritical, that The Gutter's entry requirements include being over 18, and you have members and Moderators openly show complete disregard for their own rules.
Wasnt The Gutter's age requirement there to protect children? Or it is just a joke?
@rianalnn, I was not ignoring you, I was typing this response.
pinkfloyd is 18 in 9 days, if you are so insanely anal as to use this as proof the gutter doesn't follow this rule than I'm sure we can gutterban him for 9 days, but at this point what does a few days mean in the grand scheme of things? your whole argument is absolutely stupid and I honestly cannot believe what I am reading.
I would prefer if I was not dragged into this at all thanks.
And you obviously do not understand that one of the reasons I was originally banned was because I was only 17, so get your facts straight before you start something.
Well I am going off your *current* profile pinkfloyd, it says you are a member of The Gutter.
And you would have had to lie, to gain membership to The Gutter. At least you, and the Moderator that accepted your membership are at fault.
Defending The Gutter, while breaking the rules, does not help anyone with the same stance as you.
I am not dragging you into it pinkfloyd, I was asked by a Moderator for proof, and gave it.
I will just say that actions carry with them repercussions. If you manipulate and lie, and get caught out, you will have that as a reputation.
Well I am going off your *current* profile pinkfloyd, it says you are a member of The Gutter.
Yes, I am.
And you would have had to lie, to gain membership to the gutter.
Nope. 1st time I told them when I was in there and this time I said I was 18 in over a week. Do you really care about 9 days so badly? Also, I am legally my own guardian (independent) so I can sign a piece of paper saying I'm cool with letting myself view the gutter, but its not even legally bound ANYWAY.
Defending The Gutter, while breaking the rules, does not help anyone with the same stance as you.
What?
I am not dragging you into it pinkfloyd, I was asked by a Moderator for proof, and gave it.
How is this not dragging me in? Its not like I've been posting regularly in this thread.
I will just say that actions carry with them repercussions. If you manipulate and lie, and get caught out, you will have that as a reputation.
I have not manipulated and lied. If my reputation is that I tricked the whole gutter and manipulated ( N_S ), that would be a reputation worthy of the gods.
protect children from what? The gutter may very well remove the proof of age request if it wishes, it will still not be breaking any law.
No but it is hypocritical, and disingenuous to use the argument that The Gutter is a community of people exclusively over the age of 18, when it is not.
Pink said he got in once, was removed because he wasn't 18, then has since gone back. You are once more confusing things in your zeal to look after the welfare of this community.
I am asking you again to please
Think about your post.
Think about it again.
Maybe don't post it anyway.
I have absolutely no desire to moderate anyone, but I am dead serious about misrepresenting the facts in this discussion.
Honestly, I believe the 18+ policy is as much about screening for maturity as it is about anything else, but (& this is close to the heart of the ACTUAL issue here) because it is a user-defined space, NOT a staff defined (compared to the rest of Salve, I mean), how strictly they enforce that rules has previously been left up to them (the appointed Guttermods, which have never been recognized as staff, expected to behave as such, or granted permissions into the moderator subforum).
Actually, in some countries, pinkfloyd would probably be considered to be 18 as of 1 January 2011.
On a slightly more offtopic note, speaking as a former student who has been previously barred from examinations due to age requirements, I always thought that any "minimum-age-requirement-as-a-proof-of-maturity" is silly but that's another story altogether.
The second time he knew I was underage by over a week. What is the big deal?
Look pinkfloyd, please dont take it personally.
If you have been completely candid the whole time, then it is the individual Moderator, that is to blame.
I am making the point that The Gutter has double standards, it can not be exclusively for people of the age of 18 and over, and accept people under that age, without being disingenuous and manipulative. And people defending The Gutter, by using the age restriction as part of their reasoning of the argument, make their own argument weaker, when they are either deliberately deceiving the general MtGS community, or are completely unaware of what transpires on this web-site.
@rianalnn, All I am saying in this post is that people cant use a point of argument to defend The Gutter, when they know it isnt true. And I personally dont equate biological age to maturity, it is diferent for different countries, so it is nothing about that. It is about double standars, and hypocrisy.
I actually have sympathy for MtGS members who are simply asking for forum without word-filtering. But they arent helping themselves by lying, or being abusive. I think that if you could logically come up with a reasonable solution, it would help your cause out greatly.
Not Moderator. As I have said, Guttermods are not official staff & do not receive the privileges that entails. It is an important distinction in this discussion.
I recognize your point, & personally I believe hinging on (apparently) 1 user (who I believe is mature enough to handle the content within the Gutter) to make that point is not productive.
But I also recognize that the Gutter has thus far been allowed to make their own rules, & more importantly, enforce them as they see fit, save in a few cases (I pushed for hotlinked images to be dealt with, & at some point the if-you're-infracted-you're-gutterbanned system was added).
It has been my experience that if you hold someone to a standard they do not hold themselves to, this will cause you frustration.
At least that dovetails into the purpose of this thread; finding a common ground, a standard we (the general Salve community as well as the Gutter) can hold eachother to & avoid this madness.
Not Moderator. As I have said, Guttermods are not official staff & do not receive the privileges that entails. It is an important distinction in this discussion.
I recognize your point, & personally I believe hinging on (apparently) 1 user (who I believe is mature enough to handle the content within the Gutter) to make that point is not productive.
But I also recognize that the Gutter has thus far been allowed to make their own rules, & more importantly, enforce them as they see fit, save in a few cases (I pushed for hotlinked images to be dealt with, & at some point the if-you're-infracted-you're-gutterbanned system was added).
It has been my experience that if you hold someone to a standard they do not hold themselves to, this will cause you frustration.
At least that dovetails into the purpose of this thread; finding a common ground, a standard we (the general Salve community as well as the Gutter) can hold eachother to & avoid this madness.
Thank you for making the distinction clear rianalnn, that a GutterMod, is not a true Moderator. Though it is confusing, to have the same term used for both. It is (mis)used frequently throughout the forums. So that point of contention, is very unclear.
Well, it was you personally rianalnn, that asked for proof, regarding The Gutter having membership which includes people under the age of 18. I pointed out that you only had to get a few posts into this thread to find irrefutable proof backing up that claim. How many of such do you want me to link to? You asked for proof, I have given it. If you want more proof, please be willing to go to some effort yourself.
And different countries have different laws, so it is about having a universally acceptable position, and not holding double standards, or misconstrue your position. MtG Sally is an international forum, and has to abide by its own countries laws, not Africa's or India's. If anything MtG Sally should be conservative and moderate in these regards, as it does not exclude someone based on their country of origin (AfaIk).
If The Gutter wishes to be ""allowed to make their own rules, & more importantly, enforce them as they see fit"" then people should be arguing for this, and not simply a forum without word-filtering. They are distinct, and discreet objectives.
I actually am not holding anyone to any standard. The past incarnation of The Gutter, had zero standards. It is disingenuous to say that The Gutter has any standards, other than double standards.
And thank you for seeing that I have posted several times, that I have sympathy for the MtG Sally members whom genuinely are only asking for a forum where there is no word-filtering. However not everyone is of the same opinion or argument. I would encourage the MtGS members who only want a forum without word-filtering, to reasonably to to come up with constructive alternatives, without simply asking for a flawed and proven to fail system to be reinstated as is.
The simplest and most direct way I think to go about this, is to start up an independent website with a name like "forums.thegutter.org". That would solve the majority of problems, rather than just ignoring them.
If The Gutter wishes to be ""allowed to make their own rules, & more importantly, enforce them as they see fit"" then people should be arguing for this, and not simply a forum without word-filtering. They are distinct, and discreet objectives.
ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME?
That is what we're arguing for! We HAD the gutter for six years, and now that it has been closed we want it back. That is what the Gutter is! Your whole point is moot.
Sorry to delve off topic, but this is without a doubt the single truest thing I have ever read on MTGS. Everyone should heed this advise, not just on this thread, but everywhere on this forum, and rianalnn, you may have just won the thread.
I really don't think that what people post in the Gutter is relevant. I may not agree with it, but I never cared. Mostly because I didn't know about it.
These people made these posts there under the premise that they would remain private and unseen by the general public, and really should be viewed in that context. And honestly, I'd rather people not drag them out here to be discussed at all. I don't think the place was closed because of an excessive use of the F-word.
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Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I meant because he's a busy dude, not for anything to do with your agruements. maybe you shouldn't jump to baseless assumptions. I don't even see why you seem to think this is a debate. We aren't in the debate forum are we?
I guess we just have a difference of opinions when it comes to trolling. When I think of trolling I think of purposely misrepresenting oneself in an attempt to garnish lulz. I think that all members of the Gutter behaved themselves admirably in the modhelp desks. Rather than pointing out where you think trolling was being conspired, show me the plot hatched. Show me the havoc wrought by these troll gangs. Most importantly show me things OUTSIDE the Gutter that point to why it should be closed. If there aren't signs of a problem in the Main site, then there isn't one in the Gutter.
Again this is my perspective, I'm willing to hear you out if you can point me to where the Gutter "took things too far" in the main forums, i qualify the main forums because we obviously can't seem to agree on what is acceptable in the Gutter, however I'm sure we could reach a common ground with regards to the main site.
Rianalnn posted something similar to this, at least with finding common ground on the main MTGS. I wanted this to get seen since Ponder kind of hijacked the thread, while I do agree that should the Gutter be reopened it should stay an 18+ environment.
Can we try and agree on how Gutter members should behave on the main site? If anyone has examples of what shouldnt be done, that is being done I think hat would help wit future problems down the pipeline
Can we try and agree on how Gutter members should behave on the main site?
That's easy: adhering to the same forum rules as everyone else. Beyond that I see no reason that members of the gutter should be held to any higher, or lower, standard.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
Rianalnn posted something similar to this, at least with finding common ground on the main MTGS. I wanted this to get seen since Ponder kind of hijacked the thread, while I do agree that should the Gutter be reopened it should stay an 18+ environment.
Can we try and agree on how Gutter members should behave on the main site? If anyone has examples of what shouldnt be done, that is being done I think hat would help wit future problems down the pipeline
Oh thank God. Ponder = 4 Page Strawman.
I have a theoretical situation that occured to me at some point which I'd like to get some feedback on. What if (and again I'd like to state that this is only theoretical) Hannes simply has an investor who threatened to remove their funding if something like the Woapalanne Incident happened again?
Just curious.
Also, I'm very sorry but I keep finding the circumstances by which ( N_S ) is posting to be a bit comical.. I'm now expecting his next post to either start with "I am coming to you from the crumbling remains of a disused library on a shortband radio I've wired to the internet" OR "The Pope is letting me borrow his phone to post this.."
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Then please explain: what is this aside from being complete off topic?
Your last post, that quoted my original quote, says "If you are dumb enough to post the above the Mods are still going to find it, delete it and ban any and all accounts you have created with the added side effect of letting your local Law enforcement know what you have just posted/linked to."
So yes, your are talking about getting me banned.
And why would I be concerned about being contacted by local authorities? I have done nothing criminal. It makes you appear to bully, that manipulates people by threats.
The Gutter, and therefor this website is the one with the double standards. Why would you want to bring MtG Sally into disrepute? It is a much loved and valued website.
To be honest, you should make sure that I am not right, before you insult, and threaten me. Threats such as that can be taken very seriously. Refrain from them.
I thought this thread was the correct place to raise this point? Otherwise where should I mention that The Gutter openly allows underage members, despite it being an aspect of the entry requirements?
How can you expect people to take you, or your stance seriously when you act like a bully, threatening people, for raising a serious community issue?
For the record I have both sympathy and empathy for the MtGS forum users that want a forum without the word filter. But why would you want it on this private website?
Magic Work Station Winston-180 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315755
You have misunderstood Kahedron. If [a user] is dumb enough to post [snuff, porno, etc], [that user] will be banned.
If you intend to continue posting in this thread, I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions.
eds –
doubletriple sarnathSeriously?
You gotta be kidding me.
Look at the context of his quote. He is not talking about you; he is refering to people who do illegal things like posting snuff.
I pretty sure he meant: "If you (general "you") are dumb enough to post [illegal content and snuff films] (where did you get this idea, btw?) the Mods are still going to find it, delete it, and ban any and all accounts you have created..."
not
"If you (Ponder) are dumb enough to post [a dissenting opinion] the Mods are still going to find it, delete it, and ban any and all accounts you have created..."
*edit* - I guess that got covered pretty quickly...
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
Sure here is your link. Forum member pinkfloyd is openly underage, and a member of The Gutter. Please look at his profile.
I would give the Moderator of The Gutter that approved pinkfloyd membership the benefit of the doubt that by photo alone, pinkfloyd may appear adult, if it were not both his age and date of birth clearly indicate he is underage.
This is something I should be allowed to raise concern about without being insulted, or threatened.
I am actually the one person looking after the welfare of the community, I know that most of you dont find it immoral, but it certainly is hypocritical, that The Gutter's entry requirements include being over 18, and you have members and Moderators openly show complete disregard for their own rules.
Wasnt The Gutter's age requirement there to protect children? Or it is just a joke?
@rianalnn, I was not ignoring you, I was typing this response.
Magic Work Station Winston-180 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315755
And you obviously do not understand that one of the reasons I was originally banned was because I was only 17, so get your facts straight before you start something.
LOL
pinkfloyd is 18 in 9 days, if you are so insanely anal as to use this as proof the gutter doesn't follow this rule than I'm sure we can gutterban him for 9 days, but at this point what does a few days mean in the grand scheme of things? your whole argument is absolutely stupid and I honestly cannot believe what I am reading.
Well I am going off your *current* profile pinkfloyd, it says you are a member of The Gutter.
And you would have had to lie, to gain membership to The Gutter. At least you, and the Moderator that accepted your membership are at fault.
Defending The Gutter, while breaking the rules, does not help anyone with the same stance as you.
I am not dragging you into it pinkfloyd, I was asked by a Moderator for proof, and gave it.
I will just say that actions carry with them repercussions. If you manipulate and lie, and get caught out, you will have that as a reputation.
Magic Work Station Winston-180 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315755
Yes, I am.
Nope. 1st time I told them when I was in there and this time I said I was 18 in over a week. Do you really care about 9 days so badly? Also, I am legally my own guardian (independent) so I can sign a piece of paper saying I'm cool with letting myself view the gutter, but its not even legally bound ANYWAY.
What?
How is this not dragging me in? Its not like I've been posting regularly in this thread.
I have not manipulated and lied. If my reputation is that I tricked the whole gutter and manipulated ( N_S ), that would be a reputation worthy of the gods.
LOL
No but it is hypocritical, and disingenuous to use the argument that The Gutter is a community of people exclusively over the age of 18, when it is not.
Well, are you are saying *you* were lied to?
pinkfloyd says the Moderator that accepted his membership knew of he was underage age. It cant be both, which is it?
Magic Work Station Winston-180 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315755
Clearly, FBI background checks must be mandatory for future admission.
The second time he knew I was underage by over a week. What is the big deal?
LOL
I am asking you again to please
Think about your post.
Think about it again.
Maybe don't post it anyway.
I have absolutely no desire to moderate anyone, but I am dead serious about misrepresenting the facts in this discussion.
Honestly, I believe the 18+ policy is as much about screening for maturity as it is about anything else, but (& this is close to the heart of the ACTUAL issue here) because it is a user-defined space, NOT a staff defined (compared to the rest of Salve, I mean), how strictly they enforce that rules has previously been left up to them (the appointed Guttermods, which have never been recognized as staff, expected to behave as such, or granted permissions into the moderator subforum).
On a slightly more offtopic note, speaking as a former student who has been previously barred from examinations due to age requirements, I always thought that any "minimum-age-requirement-as-a-proof-of-maturity" is silly but that's another story altogether.
Look pinkfloyd, please dont take it personally.
If you have been completely candid the whole time, then it is the individual Moderator, that is to blame.
I am making the point that The Gutter has double standards, it can not be exclusively for people of the age of 18 and over, and accept people under that age, without being disingenuous and manipulative. And people defending The Gutter, by using the age restriction as part of their reasoning of the argument, make their own argument weaker, when they are either deliberately deceiving the general MtGS community, or are completely unaware of what transpires on this web-site.
@rianalnn, All I am saying in this post is that people cant use a point of argument to defend The Gutter, when they know it isnt true. And I personally dont equate biological age to maturity, it is diferent for different countries, so it is nothing about that. It is about double standars, and hypocrisy.
I actually have sympathy for MtGS members who are simply asking for forum without word-filtering. But they arent helping themselves by lying, or being abusive. I think that if you could logically come up with a reasonable solution, it would help your cause out greatly.
Magic Work Station Winston-180 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315755
I recognize your point, & personally I believe hinging on (apparently) 1 user (who I believe is mature enough to handle the content within the Gutter) to make that point is not productive.
But I also recognize that the Gutter has thus far been allowed to make their own rules, & more importantly, enforce them as they see fit, save in a few cases (I pushed for hotlinked images to be dealt with, & at some point the if-you're-infracted-you're-gutterbanned system was added).
It has been my experience that if you hold someone to a standard they do not hold themselves to, this will cause you frustration.
At least that dovetails into the purpose of this thread; finding a common ground, a standard we (the general Salve community as well as the Gutter) can hold eachother to & avoid this madness.
eds – & on that note, I bid you all a good night!
Thank you for making the distinction clear rianalnn, that a GutterMod, is not a true Moderator. Though it is confusing, to have the same term used for both. It is (mis)used frequently throughout the forums. So that point of contention, is very unclear.
Well, it was you personally rianalnn, that asked for proof, regarding The Gutter having membership which includes people under the age of 18. I pointed out that you only had to get a few posts into this thread to find irrefutable proof backing up that claim. How many of such do you want me to link to? You asked for proof, I have given it. If you want more proof, please be willing to go to some effort yourself.
And different countries have different laws, so it is about having a universally acceptable position, and not holding double standards, or misconstrue your position. MtG Sally is an international forum, and has to abide by its own countries laws, not Africa's or India's. If anything MtG Sally should be conservative and moderate in these regards, as it does not exclude someone based on their country of origin (AfaIk).
If The Gutter wishes to be ""allowed to make their own rules, & more importantly, enforce them as they see fit"" then people should be arguing for this, and not simply a forum without word-filtering. They are distinct, and discreet objectives.
I actually am not holding anyone to any standard. The past incarnation of The Gutter, had zero standards. It is disingenuous to say that The Gutter has any standards, other than double standards.
And thank you for seeing that I have posted several times, that I have sympathy for the MtG Sally members whom genuinely are only asking for a forum where there is no word-filtering. However not everyone is of the same opinion or argument. I would encourage the MtGS members who only want a forum without word-filtering, to reasonably to to come up with constructive alternatives, without simply asking for a flawed and proven to fail system to be reinstated as is.
The simplest and most direct way I think to go about this, is to start up an independent website with a name like "forums.thegutter.org". That would solve the majority of problems, rather than just ignoring them.
Magic Work Station Winston-180 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315755
ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME?
That is what we're arguing for! We HAD the gutter for six years, and now that it has been closed we want it back. That is what the Gutter is! Your whole point is moot.
Sorry to delve off topic, but this is without a doubt the single truest thing I have ever read on MTGS. Everyone should heed this advise, not just on this thread, but everywhere on this forum, and rianalnn, you may have just won the thread.
These people made these posts there under the premise that they would remain private and unseen by the general public, and really should be viewed in that context. And honestly, I'd rather people not drag them out here to be discussed at all. I don't think the place was closed because of an excessive use of the F-word.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
Rianalnn posted something similar to this, at least with finding common ground on the main MTGS. I wanted this to get seen since Ponder kind of hijacked the thread, while I do agree that should the Gutter be reopened it should stay an 18+ environment.
Can we try and agree on how Gutter members should behave on the main site? If anyone has examples of what shouldnt be done, that is being done I think hat would help wit future problems down the pipeline
That's easy: adhering to the same forum rules as everyone else. Beyond that I see no reason that members of the gutter should be held to any higher, or lower, standard.
Oh thank God. Ponder = 4 Page Strawman.
I have a theoretical situation that occured to me at some point which I'd like to get some feedback on. What if (and again I'd like to state that this is only theoretical) Hannes simply has an investor who threatened to remove their funding if something like the Woapalanne Incident happened again?
Just curious.
Also, I'm very sorry but I keep finding the circumstances by which ( N_S ) is posting to be a bit comical.. I'm now expecting his next post to either start with "I am coming to you from the crumbling remains of a disused library on a shortband radio I've wired to the internet" OR "The Pope is letting me borrow his phone to post this.."