At the end of Day Two at Pro Tour–Yokohama, Japan's Katsuhiro Mori was informed that he would be suspended from sanctioned Magic play for the next six months (effective immediately) for accumulated penalties. This came as a result of Mori receiving another game play error warning on the second day here and also after considerable deliberation on the part of Head Judge Sheldon Menery and DCI Judge Manager Andy Heckt.
Late last year, the DCI became aware that Mori was accumulating warnings for game play errors at a rate inconsistent with what they would expect from a player of Mori's stature. Then at Pro Tour–Geneva, Katsuhiro got another three warnings for unrelated errors and received an official warning from Heckt in person, informing him that further sloppy play on his part could have long-term repercussions. He then received a warning the very next day, but that was attributed to possible nerves from his discussion with Mr. Heckt. Unfortunately, Mori received yet another game play warning here in Yokohama, forcing the DCI's hand. Mori was deemed not to have heeded the previous official warning to play more carefully, and a suspension was handed down.
Heckt and Menery were quick to point out that intent to commit rules violations here was not part of the equation – penalties for knowingly committing rules violations are usually far more severe. However, the individual warnings are highly disruptive to event operations, and as a group, the accumulated warnings revealed a pattern of behavior that was troubling in a player of Katsuhiro's quality (Japanese National Champion, World Champion, Level 4 Pro Tour Players Club member).
The two men also stressed that the accumulated warnings came about as a result of players following proper procedure and calling a judge whenever something questionable occurs. By trusting judges to adjudicate any questions or misunderstandings, players allow the DCI to gather data on which players are receiving more infraction warnings than normal and step in when something needs to be done.
This was a big surprise for me because he is one of the most high profile player's out there and hearing about him getting him get suspended is totally unexpected. Anyway I thought you guys would be interested in hearing this.
That seems really harsh to me, unless "errors" means something more than it appears. 6 months for accumulating error warnings is too much the way I see it.
It pretty much seems like they punished him for not being as knowledgeable about the rules as a Level 3 Judge.
somewhat
but i do kinda agree that he had been warned in previous tournaments that his poor playing skill would have dire consequences if he didn't improve them
and shouldn't a world champion know how to play the game really really well?
Mori has continually received warnings according to the coverage. He was told sternly to stop it and it continued to happen. That coupled with all of the claims of Japanese shiftyness because of the language barrier and miscommunication is certainly something to consider. While it is certainly a very hard decision, I think that Andy and Sheldon were justified in this move. Whether the continual mistakes were intention or not, they still existed over a large span of tournaments. Just like on this forum, if somebody continually receives warnings and no change is noted over time, that person has shown that they cannot improve on this and is penalized for it.
Edit: Made an official news article. This is front page worthy.
Mori deserves it. He needs to learn to play magic correctly. I mean, he's supposed to be a pro. Also, from what i read, it appears he has accumulated numerous warnings already. I don't see how any average person can even accumlate so many warnings. Six months is a long period though; but this is Magic and not the Olympics. Mori can probably play at the same level of competitiveness for many years to come.
Late last year, the DCI became aware that Mori was accumulating warnings for game play errors at a rate inconsistent with what they would expect from a player of Mori's stature.
"You're too good/successful a player to make these mistakes."
Is that what they're saying?
If better players are expected to play more correctly than less good players, I think this is just silly.
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Wowza, two high-profile players shot down in a relatively close timeframe. From what it seems, he deserves it.
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"You're too good/successful a player to make these mistakes."
Is that what they're saying?
If better players are expected to play more correctly than less good players, I think this is just silly.
No, its not. wouldnt you expect a professional basketball player to know how to dribble a ball better than an amateur? Of course. A high tournament ranking player, champ of the game nonetheless, should know the rules as well as a judge, if not better. Hopefully, he will spend his half year learning them well
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Maybe I'm biased because I'm a judge, but I think it's not too much to ask that a player exhibit a good knowledge of the game's rules when playing at the highest levels. One of the biggest hindrances to judging effectively is that it is too difficult to track the kinds of penalties that players are accumlulating across multiple tournaments. A lazy or cheating player shouldn't walk into each tournament with a get out of jail free card.
Besides, no one would stand for *insert professional sports player making an amature mistake repeatedly hypothetical here.*
"You're too good/successful a player to make these mistakes."
Is that what they're saying?
If better players are expected to play more correctly than less good players, I think this is just silly.
I think they're just referring to pro players in general, not necessarily certain players.
That aside, anyone know what sorts of infractions he was accruing?
It's worth bearing in mind that when the DCI say "intent to commit rules violations here was not part of the equation", what they mean is that they don't have evidence of intent.
Not that I'm accusing Mori of cheating here, but the point is that a stream of warnings like that could be a consequence of shady behaviour. As such, the rule has to be that when this happens, action is taken. That way, when someone is cheating they won't get away with gaining advantage from it even if they're never actually caught.
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yea but this is after like a day+ of all magic. playing at the pro tour is tiring and sloppy plays/mistakes can easily occur when ur tired. i mean i remember just after 3-4 ronud of magic at mss, i was making stupid mistakes that i would have never made in round 1.
i think this ruling is unfair. unless its cheating(on purpose), punishment shouldnt be this severe. maybe disqualified from this torny might have made more sense.
I don't think you're getting what is implied here. I read it as: "Mori continously tried to misrepresent the game-state." They wouldn't suspend him for lack of knowledge of the rules, but they would definitely suspend him if enough of his opponents called the judges and complained about the unpleasant experience of playing a rules-lawyering 100% Spike.
He didn't commit rules violations. He committed playing incorrectly for wins and hoping his status would be enough to keep him from trouble.
If he continously tried to misrepresent the game-state this is a serious offence and he will probably be suspended immediately, rather than after several violations. We can't tell what was happening unless we get a more detailed announcement.
I don't think you're getting what is implied here. I read it as: "Mori continously tried to misrepresent the game-state." They wouldn't suspend him for lack of knowledge of the rules, but they would definitely suspend him if enough of his opponents called the judges and complained about the unpleasant experience of playing a rules-lawyering 100% Spike.
He didn't commit rules violations. He committed playing incorrectly for wins and hoping his status would be enough to keep him from trouble.
No. If they could prove that he was doing it intentionally, he'd be banned right now, or at least suspended for a much longer period of time.
Note the phrase, "intent to commit rules violations here was not part of the equation." That means that they weren't applying a penalty for knowingly breaking the rules, but for accruing many warnings over a long period of time, which *can* indicate an intent to cheat. But again, since they can't prove he was trying to cheat, they aren't punishing him for that particular offense.
While I don't know the whole story, I don't see anything wrong with the suspension. I mean, warnings are called that because they are meant to warn someone that they might be in trouble if they don't stop doing what they're doing. If the DCI is unable to punish someone for accumulating a massive amount of warnings, then the warnings are meaningless.
I'm just curious as to what he actually did to get the warnings, I mean if it's something like a card falling out of your deck while you're shuffling, then that would be really rediculous to suspend someone on. But if it's something like accidentally looking at the top card of your deck, then he would deserve it.
I think it's spot on. When the one consistancy of the world champion is bumbling through the game, you know that something is wrong. The judges see this behavior time and time again, eventually speaking to him about it, hoping things will change. Apparently they did not change, so they suspended him. Makes total sense to me.
It's embarasing having your world champion bumble through rules violations over and over again.
Still, I would like to know exactly what he has been doing wrong.
The Dci always are very reluctant to relate the exact circumstances which led to a suspension. IMO, Mori's behavior seemed not acceptable to the DCI - his mistakes were probably graver then just a card falling in the process of shuffling.
This is no surprise at all. Mori is well-known to be one of the biggest cheaters on the tour. The respect for him among pros in my area is zilch. My only surprise is that he wasn't suspended earlier.It's really impossible to defend him on this. He wasn't suspended for inferior rules knowledge, he was suspended for abusing the language barrier over and over and over again. I'm not saying Mori isn't a fantastic player, just that he used language to gain an unfair advantage over the field.
For a pro player he really should know what cards can and cannot do, I mean whenever you see him in video footage a judge has to walk over to his table like 3-4 times.. which is WAY too much for a player of his stature....
Although I don't agree with getting banned for 6 months because of misplays or "errors" I understand why they did it...
I don't know about any of you guys, but when I go to GP's, GPT's, and PTQ's, I'd be hard pressed to get 3 warnings for game play errors. On a few occasions I have received one but that makes me concentrate more on the games at hand. Maybe things are different at a PT, but I wouldn't think so.
I'm not saying that I think Mori was trying to cheat (I've never met him so I'm not in a position to say anything about him personally), but if his play has been so sloppy to have judges called on him repeatedly in tournaments and still not shape up, the penalty is fair. He should be expected to make fewer game play mistakes than me given his accomplishments.
The article also never states if he received such warnings in almost every tournament or if it happens every few tournaments. I won't discount the possibility of him getting one warning and over-thinking things to the point where he makes more mistakes.
On the surface it seems fair to me, but as with most people here, I have never talked to him or played a game against him so I don't know whether or not he tries to cheat. If the DCI gets reason to believe he has actively cheated or does cheat after his suspension, I have no doubt they will enact the proper punishment.
yea but this is after like a day+ of all magic. playing at the pro tour is tiring and sloppy plays/mistakes can easily occur when ur tired. i mean i remember just after 3-4 ronud of magic at mss, i was making stupid mistakes that i would have never made in round 1.
i think this ruling is unfair. unless its cheating(on purpose), punishment shouldnt be this severe. maybe disqualified from this torny might have made more sense.
Keep in mind that this wasn't just about the day's events. According to the report, the fact that he had such an abnormally long list of warnings was a major factor in the decision.
I just read it in the Yokohama coverage and hadn't seen it posted yet.
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/ptyok07/n1
This was a big surprise for me because he is one of the most high profile player's out there and hearing about him getting him get suspended is totally unexpected. Anyway I thought you guys would be interested in hearing this.
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somewhat
but i do kinda agree that he had been warned in previous tournaments that his poor playing skill would have dire consequences if he didn't improve them
and shouldn't a world champion know how to play the game really really well?
Edit: Made an official news article. This is front page worthy.
How do you know?
"You're too good/successful a player to make these mistakes."
Is that what they're saying?
If better players are expected to play more correctly than less good players, I think this is just silly.
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No, its not. wouldnt you expect a professional basketball player to know how to dribble a ball better than an amateur? Of course. A high tournament ranking player, champ of the game nonetheless, should know the rules as well as a judge, if not better. Hopefully, he will spend his half year learning them well
Besides, no one would stand for *insert professional sports player making an amature mistake repeatedly hypothetical here.*
I think they're just referring to pro players in general, not necessarily certain players.
That aside, anyone know what sorts of infractions he was accruing?
Not that I'm accusing Mori of cheating here, but the point is that a stream of warnings like that could be a consequence of shady behaviour. As such, the rule has to be that when this happens, action is taken. That way, when someone is cheating they won't get away with gaining advantage from it even if they're never actually caught.
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<Limited Clan>
i think this ruling is unfair. unless its cheating(on purpose), punishment shouldnt be this severe. maybe disqualified from this torny might have made more sense.
i was hoping to see him on GP Krakow this fall - but now i doubt i will have a chance ..
If he continously tried to misrepresent the game-state this is a serious offence and he will probably be suspended immediately, rather than after several violations. We can't tell what was happening unless we get a more detailed announcement.
No. If they could prove that he was doing it intentionally, he'd be banned right now, or at least suspended for a much longer period of time.
Note the phrase, "intent to commit rules violations here was not part of the equation." That means that they weren't applying a penalty for knowingly breaking the rules, but for accruing many warnings over a long period of time, which *can* indicate an intent to cheat. But again, since they can't prove he was trying to cheat, they aren't punishing him for that particular offense.
It's embarasing having your world champion bumble through rules violations over and over again.
Still, I would like to know exactly what he has been doing wrong.
This is just guesswork, of course
Although I don't agree with getting banned for 6 months because of misplays or "errors" I understand why they did it...
I'm not saying that I think Mori was trying to cheat (I've never met him so I'm not in a position to say anything about him personally), but if his play has been so sloppy to have judges called on him repeatedly in tournaments and still not shape up, the penalty is fair. He should be expected to make fewer game play mistakes than me given his accomplishments.
The article also never states if he received such warnings in almost every tournament or if it happens every few tournaments. I won't discount the possibility of him getting one warning and over-thinking things to the point where he makes more mistakes.
On the surface it seems fair to me, but as with most people here, I have never talked to him or played a game against him so I don't know whether or not he tries to cheat. If the DCI gets reason to believe he has actively cheated or does cheat after his suspension, I have no doubt they will enact the proper punishment.
Keep in mind that this wasn't just about the day's events. According to the report, the fact that he had such an abnormally long list of warnings was a major factor in the decision.