This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, City Champs: The Quest from Chump to Champ . We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.
Well I read through the article and while I can say it was enjoyable I was also put off by the way that it was written.
It started off like a personal quest article and then turned into an article about supporting the events. While I can still see your side of the cuts to the events, schedules, and PT points/rewards, I was more intrigued by the quest of Champs.
I like articles that are focused and I felt like you started to lose focus of what the article was originally. Am I right? Did you make a change in the middle of the article on the focus of your subjects?
Nice article! I like the storytelling, but I have to agree that the focus is a little all over the place. From your play style I never realized that you didn't play competitively on a regular basis, you're play is usually pretty tight. Anyway, I'll see you in the top 8!
Nice article, but I think the best is new Brine Elemental's image
That one was part of a set I did for a MTGSalvation card exchange. You can view the rest of the Brine Elementals here and everything else here.
Although short, I thought this was a good article. I agree it kind of bounced around, but for a first attempt it's not bad and I'm excited to see what comes in the future.
Yeah, I do agree it bounced a bit. I started off as a personal story about my entry into City Champs, but really felt like it needed something at the end to kind of sell the experience as a whole. Even though it was my particular quest that sparked the article, the major point I wanted to get across was that City Champs is a great outlet for any casual player to really test themselves in the grand scheme of things. I will definitely take all of this feedback into account for the future, thanks for reading!
PS. If it hasn't already been played, good luck in the T8.
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I really enjoyed hearing about City Champs from this perspective. As someone who runs the tourneys, it's good to hear what other regions are doing and how players perceive it. The first thing that leapt out at me, though was the AWESOME spoof of the typical Wizards' banner ads. Very nice.
I also balked at the price you paid, though. $25 for sealed? We charge $15 and still give away packs at the end of the day. I strongly second your closing notes about supporting even more casual-feeling organized play programs like this one. We've had close to 30 different players across our 7 events (the last one is this coming Sunday, and the top 8 are still somewhat competitive - we had one player last week who went from 0 points to 6 with a win, and 6 more can get him into the T8). By contrast, our FNMs range from a quick 12-man 4-round affair to a 32-player nightmare (for me, at least). Our Morningtide release hit 45. That was nuts.
Store-level organized play is a boon to the casual players who get tired of seeing the same old Legacy-but-gimmicky decks at the kitchen table, and it gives them a chance to really understand the rules (and thus play better in the casual realm, too).
Best of luck in the Top 8 showdown!
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International Magic Judge (Level 4)
Former US Southwest Regional Coordinator
Good article and grats on securing first place. It did seem to jump around slightly, but who am I to critisize ( bravo for writing an article ). Sadly we are scrounging for people to play in my area, we had to cancel 2-3 C. Champs for lack of 8 people. This past weekend I pulled a first place win with a horrible card pool in Limited. I think I'm in either 2nd or 3rd now, yaa me. All of our events were $20 for sealed and $15 for Constructed. Our FNM's are practically dead as well.
That $15 for constructed must be a typo... it must be $5.
Thanks for everyone that wished me well in the Top 8... the competition will be tough. We've got a pretty decent mix of competitve players and more casual players at our shop.
There's only one decent venue within 40 miles of me, yet it somehow part of the Columbus-Cleavland "city," despite being about 60 miles away from Columbus and Cleavland being on the complete other side of the state. Odd!
Oh, speaking of awkward locations, I feel like I should have mentioned that a Store in ALASKA counts for Seattle's City Champs. Isn't that ridiculous? Hahaha. It must be further away than Texas, no?
Some tips for those who are going to the top 8, from a reigning champ...
1) Keep in mind that there are only seven other players. I know it's obvious, but trust me, remembering this is golden. The sideboard is important. Many people's sideboard is made for a widerange of decks in a major tournament made for unknown decks. Keeping in mind that there are only seven other players, you can get away with more hate than usual in the board.
2) Even more obvious than the last, know your opponents. You know who's gonna be in the top 8. So you know what they're gonna play, board accordingly.
3) Along with knowing what everyone else is playing, change your maindeck accordingly. You don't have to play your netdeck to the very last card. It's okay to include some main deck hate. The 8-man format is very flexable.
Pretty much, that's how I won. Everyone played with the deck that they would have played in a 40+ man turny. They didn't tinker their list, or bother with the board.
The article further fueld my drive to get into Competative MTG. Unfortunately I don't have the free time to get to big tournaments. High School is a drag. I must say though, my favorite part of the article was the loving friendship bond. Helping your friend like that warms my heart. My friends won't even give me uncommons that they aren't using. Anyways, best of luck in the T8.
PS. Mono B Rack Blows. I had one for awhile and it was garbage.
Just skimmed the article, but I think people are totally missing the point about OP right now. WotC is trying to make OP more accessible to a wider audience, which is why they are scrapping the current States. Will City Champs become a truer "City" Champs eventually lead to a new States? Will some new program come along? I guess we'll find out in two months.
I don't think we're missing the point, really. Things like MSS and States were really loved by many players. To have them taken away was disheartening. I was simply stating it would be sad to me if City Champs went the same way as MSS and States, as some of the events are not drawing enough people. I expect Wizards to come with something great in two months, I just hope City Champs can live another year.
"I also knew my friend needed the win more than I did."
Is anyone else bothered by Fridge's friend winning that game due to friendship, as opposed to skill?
To me, this seems different only in degree from bringing an entourage of friends to a tournament with you, with the understanding that they will throw any matchup where they're paired with you.
I contend that sanctioned players ought to be playing to win, not to play statistical games with the ranking system.
When I said it was $20 and $15 I was referring to the C.Champs events. Not to regular FNM, our FNM's are cheap...just that noone consistently shows up. Out Top 8 is going to be seriously screwey. Were going to end up with like the top 3 people and whatever other 5 people that are on the list that show up. We are going to have at least 2 people with maybe 4 points in the top 8.
I don't think we're missing the point, really. Things like MSS and States were really loved by many players. To have them taken away was disheartening. I was simply stating it would be sad to me if City Champs went the same way as MSS and States, as some of the events are not drawing enough people. I expect Wizards to come with something great in two months, I just hope City Champs can live another year.
The point is that City Champs IS taking the place of States at some level, even if just because it is added as States is scrapped.
WotC wants the States-level competition to be more accessible, that's what City Champs is doing. I look for an expansion of City Champs or another similar program to fill the void left by the elimination of States.
Worrying about losing City Champs is a waste of effort. Its not going anywhere. It may get re-tooled, but it's not going to get scrapped.
Magic is on firmer ground than many people think. The sky is not falling, it is just changing color.
"I also knew my friend needed the win more than I did."
Is anyone else bothered by Fridge's friend winning that game due to friendship, as opposed to skill?
To me, this seems different only in degree from bringing an entourage of friends to a tournament with you, with the understanding that they will throw any matchup where they're paired with you.
I contend that sanctioned players ought to be playing to win, not to play statistical games with the ranking system.
I agree with this sentiment, the "misplay" with the slaughter pact, when he says he had the game won seems kind of dishonest and not something to really encourage on the website. If it was clear that he lost if he played the pact (the teachings was in the yard, so he could see it, he knew his opponent played bounce, his opponent had the mana to search and bounce) then he had nothing to gain by doing it.. Whether such playing is particularly ethical is questionable, something to think about I guess.
Considering you can concede at any moment in a tournament and no deals were made between my opponent and I prior to the play, I don't see any form of questionable ethics. I didn't recieve any product for losing. I just figured I would play very loose.
If this is a question of ethics, I would very much like to debate it with you. I'm the type of person that doesn't 'need' to win to enjoy the game of Magic. In that particular situation, I wanted my opponent to win. There was never any agreement with or without offer of compensation for me to take the loss.
It was just something I felt like doing at the time. My personal choice. I do not believe it is a question of ethics in the slightest.
As I posted above, how is it different from bring a large group of friends to a tournament with you, with the understanding that they will concede any time it would benefit you?
When it comes to questions of ethics, here is a question I consider a fair test:
What would happen if everyone behaved this way?
The answer is that the competitive nature of sanctioned magic would transform into "Who can bring the most friends to a tournament?", which is not what most people payed the registration fee for, presumably.
If you're not playing to win, don't play sanctioned magic. Nonsensical wastes of time and noncompetitive behavior should be discouraged. This is the reason that Shahrazad is banned in Legacy: Not because it wins games, but because it prevents games from being won and acts against the competitive nature of the game. Divine Intervention was once banned for the same reason.
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
@BillyTheFridge
It started off like a personal quest article and then turned into an article about supporting the events. While I can still see your side of the cuts to the events, schedules, and PT points/rewards, I was more intrigued by the quest of Champs.
I like articles that are focused and I felt like you started to lose focus of what the article was originally. Am I right? Did you make a change in the middle of the article on the focus of your subjects?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
Congrats, hope you take out the top 8
P.S. Thanks for holding the swamps ;-)
That one was part of a set I did for a MTGSalvation card exchange. You can view the rest of the Brine Elementals here and everything else here.
Although short, I thought this was a good article. I agree it kind of bounced around, but for a first attempt it's not bad and I'm excited to see what comes in the future.
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
@BillyTheFridge
PS. If it hasn't already been played, good luck in the T8.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I also balked at the price you paid, though. $25 for sealed? We charge $15 and still give away packs at the end of the day. I strongly second your closing notes about supporting even more casual-feeling organized play programs like this one. We've had close to 30 different players across our 7 events (the last one is this coming Sunday, and the top 8 are still somewhat competitive - we had one player last week who went from 0 points to 6 with a win, and 6 more can get him into the T8). By contrast, our FNMs range from a quick 12-man 4-round affair to a 32-player nightmare (for me, at least). Our Morningtide release hit 45. That was nuts.
Store-level organized play is a boon to the casual players who get tired of seeing the same old Legacy-but-gimmicky decks at the kitchen table, and it gives them a chance to really understand the rules (and thus play better in the casual realm, too).
Best of luck in the Top 8 showdown!
Former US Southwest Regional Coordinator
Favorite cards of all time:
Overall - Peacekeeper
Flavor text - Blazing Archon
Can't imagine why.
Thanks for everyone that wished me well in the Top 8... the competition will be tough. We've got a pretty decent mix of competitve players and more casual players at our shop.
Thanks again for the feedback too!
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
@BillyTheFridge
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
@BillyTheFridge
1) Keep in mind that there are only seven other players. I know it's obvious, but trust me, remembering this is golden. The sideboard is important. Many people's sideboard is made for a widerange of decks in a major tournament made for unknown decks. Keeping in mind that there are only seven other players, you can get away with more hate than usual in the board.
2) Even more obvious than the last, know your opponents. You know who's gonna be in the top 8. So you know what they're gonna play, board accordingly.
3) Along with knowing what everyone else is playing, change your maindeck accordingly. You don't have to play your netdeck to the very last card. It's okay to include some main deck hate. The 8-man format is very flexable.
Pretty much, that's how I won. Everyone played with the deck that they would have played in a 40+ man turny. They didn't tinker their list, or bother with the board.
PS. Mono B Rack Blows. I had one for awhile and it was garbage.
Thanks To Highlight Studios for The SIG. These Guys are GREAT!!!http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=91142
Standard II
WBGShamanGBW
RGSnow RampGR
WUProject X IIUW
Tell me about it. It was a BAD decision made at 3am the night before the draft.
And thanks for the tips, avatarofflaw... too bad 2 others in my Top 8 have already posted in this thread. Now they know the secret too!
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
@BillyTheFridge
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
@BillyTheFridge
Is anyone else bothered by Fridge's friend winning that game due to friendship, as opposed to skill?
To me, this seems different only in degree from bringing an entourage of friends to a tournament with you, with the understanding that they will throw any matchup where they're paired with you.
I contend that sanctioned players ought to be playing to win, not to play statistical games with the ranking system.
Replies:
"Mythic rarity doesn't make another 'Goyf priced card inevitable any more than printing more cards makes another 'Goyf inevitable." -UrzasSedatives
"Seriously, $80 cards? There's no conceivable way. If even one mythic card hit that price point, everyone and their mother would start buying boxes of Alara to "flip" him." -Charlequin
Being listened to would've beat saying I TOLD YOU SO 3 years later.
The point is that City Champs IS taking the place of States at some level, even if just because it is added as States is scrapped.
WotC wants the States-level competition to be more accessible, that's what City Champs is doing. I look for an expansion of City Champs or another similar program to fill the void left by the elimination of States.
Worrying about losing City Champs is a waste of effort. Its not going anywhere. It may get re-tooled, but it's not going to get scrapped.
Magic is on firmer ground than many people think. The sky is not falling, it is just changing color.
I agree with this sentiment, the "misplay" with the slaughter pact, when he says he had the game won seems kind of dishonest and not something to really encourage on the website. If it was clear that he lost if he played the pact (the teachings was in the yard, so he could see it, he knew his opponent played bounce, his opponent had the mana to search and bounce) then he had nothing to gain by doing it.. Whether such playing is particularly ethical is questionable, something to think about I guess.
Banner and avatar by Maxeel at Midnight GFX
If this is a question of ethics, I would very much like to debate it with you. I'm the type of person that doesn't 'need' to win to enjoy the game of Magic. In that particular situation, I wanted my opponent to win. There was never any agreement with or without offer of compensation for me to take the loss.
It was just something I felt like doing at the time. My personal choice. I do not believe it is a question of ethics in the slightest.
LISTEN TO MAH SONGZ!
@BillyTheFridge
When it comes to questions of ethics, here is a question I consider a fair test:
What would happen if everyone behaved this way?
The answer is that the competitive nature of sanctioned magic would transform into "Who can bring the most friends to a tournament?", which is not what most people payed the registration fee for, presumably.
If you're not playing to win, don't play sanctioned magic. Nonsensical wastes of time and noncompetitive behavior should be discouraged. This is the reason that Shahrazad is banned in Legacy: Not because it wins games, but because it prevents games from being won and acts against the competitive nature of the game. Divine Intervention was once banned for the same reason.
Replies:
"Mythic rarity doesn't make another 'Goyf priced card inevitable any more than printing more cards makes another 'Goyf inevitable." -UrzasSedatives
"Seriously, $80 cards? There's no conceivable way. If even one mythic card hit that price point, everyone and their mother would start buying boxes of Alara to "flip" him." -Charlequin
Being listened to would've beat saying I TOLD YOU SO 3 years later.