A lot of people enjoyed the C14 Planeswalker commanders, in large part because they are planeswalkers designed to be commanders, with weaker ultimates and stronger minus abilities.
Planeswalkers have a lot of appeal due to the card type's high visibility, and a lot of people even want to open it up to all planeswalkers, but that's another topic.
My question is this: should there be enchantments, artifacts, or even instants/sorceries as commanders? Why or why not?
At best i'd love to get a commander that interacts with artifacts, requires me to run Wastes and/or profits from running them and colorless mana stuff. Can't be that hard WotC!
Other than that i hope they stick to creatures, enchantment creatures, artifact creatures and planeswalkers. Commanders are supposed to at least resemble creatures, i don't want to see Godsend, Day of Destiny or even non-permanents in the command zone.
Since we just had additional legendary enchantment creatures, my best bet would be 2C planeswalkers that can be commanders.
Also, i'm against allowing all planeswalkers as commander. Fast mana into turn 2-4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon out of the command zone is not my idea of fun and what this format is about.
I'd prefer to just stick to creatures, though I wouldn't be opposed to some OLDwalkers as new commanders either. With which I mean the likes of Lord Windgrace, Serra, Tevesh Szat, Feroz...the likes. They feel epic/awesome enough to be a commander.
Of those released in C14, Freyalise, Pre-Mending Nahiri, Teferi and Ob Nixilis all (kinda) filled that bill. Daretti, cool as he is, felt underwhelming as a character in response cause he's not an oldwalker. To me, the oldwalkers are the ones with enough oomph to be leaders of decks, the neowalkers aren't.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Personally I don't really mind - I think as long as they can make the commander compelling, they can do what they want. They've already functionally done enchantments with the gods. But I also don't think they NEED to do different types. Nearly any design that could be done with a different permanent type (or even to a certain extent instant/sorcery) could be done on a creature.
You can sort of have an enchantment as a commander if you use one of those flip legends from Kamigawa. Cards like Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant. I believe there may be one more... but it might be one where only the enchantment side is legendary, and not the creature side.
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Special thanks to Bella for my sig
"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
Color me as one that would be unexcited to see non-creatures and non-planeswalkers as Commanders. Why? Interaction.
All colors are capable of handling creatures. Blue and Green are bad at it, but they have tools.
All colors are capable of handling Planeswalkers. Blue can be in trouble if the planeswalker actually resolves, but generally no matter what deck you run you'll have a solution to a 'walker, even if that solution is "attack it in the face".
Artifacts are something black cannot handle save for expensive artifacts and a rare, old, extremely narrow color-pie break (Gate to Phyrexia). A noncreature artifact commander would just be a non-interactive misery setup versus monoblack commanders.
Enchantments are even worse. Black and red are incapable of dealing with enchantments save for Chaos Warp and those colorless cards, so a Black, Red, or Rakdos commander would be just ruined if that commander was too strong.
But worst of all are instants and sorceries. While the design space has potential, only blue has any real reliable counterplay against an instant or sorcery. All non-blue decks are forced to fight on the backfoot or run extremely rare and specific hate (Nevermore) to stop such effects.
That's before we even get to flavor and feel; how is a spell a commander? How is some random crown the commander? I have every confidence WotC could find an answer to these questions, but maybe not a satisfying one.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Color me as one that would be unexcited to see non-creatures and non-planeswalkers as Commanders. Why? Interaction.
All colors are capable of handling creatures. Blue and Green are bad at it, but they have tools.
All colors are capable of handling Planeswalkers. Blue can be in trouble if the planeswalker actually resolves, but generally no matter what deck you run you'll have a solution to a 'walker, even if that solution is "attack it in the face".
Artifacts are something black cannot handle save for expensive artifacts and a rare, old, extremely narrow color-pie break (Gate to Phyrexia). A noncreature artifact commander would just be a non-interactive misery setup versus monoblack commanders.
Enchantments are even worse. Black and red are incapable of dealing with enchantments save for Chaos Warp and those colorless cards, so a Black, Red, or Rakdos commander would be just ruined if that commander was too strong.
But worst of all are instants and sorceries. While the design space has potential, only blue has any real reliable counterplay against an instant or sorcery. All non-blue decks are forced to fight on the backfoot or run extremely rare and specific hate (Nevermore) to stop such effects.
That's before we even get to flavor and feel; how is a spell a commander? How is some random crown the commander? I have every confidence WotC could find an answer to these questions, but maybe not a satisfying one.
That's a fair point, but keep in mind that that's already a problem with existing commanders. eminence commanders are totally uninteractable with all colors, and any relying mostly on etb or cast triggers (maelstrom wanderer, prossh, tazri, gonti, etc) are functionally spells, or at least close, and basically can't be answered except while on the stack. At least there ARE colorless answers to other permanent types, even if they're overpriced. And anyway if you're playing mono-black you can't easily answer artifacts, but that's always been true. Does it make that big of a difference if it's a commander? Sure, it adds consistency, but as long as the artifact isn't must-answer it doesn't seem like it's necessarily a problem. The existence of the gods hasn't made mono-black unplayable or anything.
Flavor-wise I think an artifact is pretty reasonable - look at something like Elbrus, the Binding Blade. Instants/sorceries are harder, but I could see legitimacy in the flavor of something like:
Breath of Snuffleupagus 4BB
Instant
Breath of Snuffleupagus can be your commander.
Destroy all creatures.
Where thematically Snuffleupagus is your commander, but he doesn't lead from the front lines so much as occasionally intervene on the battlefield in the form of a spell. It's not really very different than if it were a creature with the same effect as an etb trigger.
Flavor-wise I think an artifact is pretty reasonable - look at something like Elbrus, the Binding Blade.
I'd forgotten about that. Binding Blade style commanders would be really cool, and Elbrus/Withengar is already a very popular commander to house-rule in. Still, that feels more like a circumvention than what most people would think of when you say "noncreature artifact commander".
I have 0 problems with walkers in the zone because they are arguably the easiest permanent type to remove. Every colour is able to deal with a walker, sure some colours are better than others (Hero's Downfall) but it's better than enchantments for example where Black and Red cannot touch them. The Theros Gods are almost impossible to take down for Rakdos when not a creature. Artifacts are bad for the same reason except only black can't touch em.
Having said that I think artifact/enchantment commanders would be ok if designed well enough and not OP
The existence of the gods hasn't made mono-black unplayable or anything.
The gods are (or can become) creatures. Black can give them -X/-X, -1/-1 counters, force sacrifice, and even has a few creature exile effects.
This is true. I am sure for a brief moment there was some sort of Thassa permission deck, and then we got JVP and Baral as the ultimate control commanders. Otherwise, most decks with Gods end up turning them on, even if by accident or only in endgame and even if they are largely creatureless, and once they are living Black can kill 'em dead. You are right, however, that the presence of indestructible stuff hasn't slowed mono-Red down at all even with just Chaos Warp and a few other tricks.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I may be crazy here but I believe that Sorcery/Instant Commanders could work, if they are well designed. Maintaining some level of interactivity is key, though I can see three ways to do that right off of the bat.
1) Conditional Effects: Give each of the commanders two conditional effects (think Timely Reinforcements). For example...
Carnage Nexus
Sorcery
If you control three or more creatures, creatures you control gain doublestrike until end of turn.
If you have one or fewer cards in hand, you may return up to three creature cards from your graveyard to your hand.
Carnage Nexus can be your commander.
2) "Traps": Rattlesnake-style commanders could be made interactive (insofar as control or hatebears are "interactive") by making trap effects that allow players to dodge the commander tax.
Cunning Ambush
Instant
Cunning ambush costs less to cast for each creature attacking you and/or planeswalkers you control.
Reveal the top card of your library. If you reveal a creature card with a converted mana cost of X or less in this way, put it onto the battlefield.
Cunning Ambush can be your commander.
3) Creature-based effects: As you may have noticed from the above examples, a lot of effects in MTG ultimately revolve around creatures. If these commander spells all revolve around creatures in some respect, it will still be possible for decks of all colors to interact with the aftermath.
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Planeswalkers have a lot of appeal due to the card type's high visibility, and a lot of people even want to open it up to all planeswalkers, but that's another topic.
My question is this: should there be enchantments, artifacts, or even instants/sorceries as commanders? Why or why not?
- Rabid Wombat
Karn, Silver Golem, Hope of Ghirapur and Eldrazi, excuse me if i don't dance out of pure joy...
Yes, i know, there are Bosh, Iron Golem, Breya, Etherium Shaper, Memnarch, Ramos, Dragon Engine, Reaper King, Sen Triplets, Sharuum the Hegemon and Silas Renn, Seeker Adept, but all of them require mana of color to cast or activate them or loose a lot of potential, if you you refrain from running colorful stuff.
At best i'd love to get a commander that interacts with artifacts, requires me to run Wastes and/or profits from running them and colorless mana stuff. Can't be that hard WotC!
Other than that i hope they stick to creatures, enchantment creatures, artifact creatures and planeswalkers. Commanders are supposed to at least resemble creatures, i don't want to see Godsend, Day of Destiny or even non-permanents in the command zone.
Since we just had additional legendary enchantment creatures, my best bet would be 2C planeswalkers that can be commanders.
Also, i'm against allowing all planeswalkers as commander. Fast mana into turn 2-4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon out of the command zone is not my idea of fun and what this format is about.
Of those released in C14, Freyalise, Pre-Mending Nahiri, Teferi and Ob Nixilis all (kinda) filled that bill. Daretti, cool as he is, felt underwhelming as a character in response cause he's not an oldwalker. To me, the oldwalkers are the ones with enough oomph to be leaders of decks, the neowalkers aren't.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Building: Varina
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
All colors are capable of handling creatures. Blue and Green are bad at it, but they have tools.
All colors are capable of handling Planeswalkers. Blue can be in trouble if the planeswalker actually resolves, but generally no matter what deck you run you'll have a solution to a 'walker, even if that solution is "attack it in the face".
Artifacts are something black cannot handle save for expensive artifacts and a rare, old, extremely narrow color-pie break (Gate to Phyrexia). A noncreature artifact commander would just be a non-interactive misery setup versus monoblack commanders.
Enchantments are even worse. Black and red are incapable of dealing with enchantments save for Chaos Warp and those colorless cards, so a Black, Red, or Rakdos commander would be just ruined if that commander was too strong.
But worst of all are instants and sorceries. While the design space has potential, only blue has any real reliable counterplay against an instant or sorcery. All non-blue decks are forced to fight on the backfoot or run extremely rare and specific hate (Nevermore) to stop such effects.
That's before we even get to flavor and feel; how is a spell a commander? How is some random crown the commander? I have every confidence WotC could find an answer to these questions, but maybe not a satisfying one.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Flavor-wise I think an artifact is pretty reasonable - look at something like Elbrus, the Binding Blade. Instants/sorceries are harder, but I could see legitimacy in the flavor of something like:
Breath of Snuffleupagus 4BB
Instant
Breath of Snuffleupagus can be your commander.
Destroy all creatures.
Where thematically Snuffleupagus is your commander, but he doesn't lead from the front lines so much as occasionally intervene on the battlefield in the form of a spell. It's not really very different than if it were a creature with the same effect as an etb trigger.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I'd forgotten about that. Binding Blade style commanders would be really cool, and Elbrus/Withengar is already a very popular commander to house-rule in. Still, that feels more like a circumvention than what most people would think of when you say "noncreature artifact commander".
- Rabid Wombat
Having said that I think artifact/enchantment commanders would be ok if designed well enough and not OP
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
This is true. I am sure for a brief moment there was some sort of Thassa permission deck, and then we got JVP and Baral as the ultimate control commanders. Otherwise, most decks with Gods end up turning them on, even if by accident or only in endgame and even if they are largely creatureless, and once they are living Black can kill 'em dead. You are right, however, that the presence of indestructible stuff hasn't slowed mono-Red down at all even with just Chaos Warp and a few other tricks.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
1) Conditional Effects: Give each of the commanders two conditional effects (think Timely Reinforcements). For example...
Carnage Nexus
Sorcery
If you control three or more creatures, creatures you control gain doublestrike until end of turn.
If you have one or fewer cards in hand, you may return up to three creature cards from your graveyard to your hand.
Carnage Nexus can be your commander.
2) "Traps": Rattlesnake-style commanders could be made interactive (insofar as control or hatebears are "interactive") by making trap effects that allow players to dodge the commander tax.
Cunning Ambush
Instant
Cunning ambush costs less to cast for each creature attacking you and/or planeswalkers you control.
Reveal the top card of your library. If you reveal a creature card with a converted mana cost of X or less in this way, put it onto the battlefield.
Cunning Ambush can be your commander.
3) Creature-based effects: As you may have noticed from the above examples, a lot of effects in MTG ultimately revolve around creatures. If these commander spells all revolve around creatures in some respect, it will still be possible for decks of all colors to interact with the aftermath.