I have tried.. but things are hard for him right now.. he has stated he has no desire to return..
As much as I want him here.. I can understand his feelings on the matter and I support him regardless of his choice.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
I have tried.. but things are hard for him right now.. he has stated he has no desire to return..
As much as I want him here.. I can understand his feelings on the matter and I support him regardless of his choice.
He's pulling an MD. He'll be back in 3 days.
If you post at News at all, you know the humor in that.
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@SorryGuy:
If they would take me, I would be willing to mod Type II again. I want to try and make amends for what I did a few days ago, and I want to try and make a positive difference the right way. My wounds were never even existent with the rest of the staff, I was just tired of working for an admin that I felt didn't suit his position. I spoke up, and as a result, I forfeited my modship.
Believe me, I didn't want to stop modding. But it was something that I knew I might lose forever if I did, but there was no point keeping my mouth shut if I might have been canned anyway... So I did it. There were many things that I did wrong, but I'm hoping that I can try and make amends for that.
Well then I feel it is only right that you return. While some of what you did was not correct, the posting of mod information, the way you went about it, etc. in the end you are the reason we see Belgareth gone. Had you done nothing nothing would have changed. I realize it will probably be hard for the staff to reinstate you but I believe it is the right move. In my limited knowledge of T2 you are one of the better posters there and lets be honest, now is not a time to be picking new mods who have never modded T2 and have no one to learn from. I think the correct move is to bring you back and then appoint another member who you can teach.
Just my feelings but it seems after what I have seen from Mike today and what he has done before in T2 that he should be reinstated.
But he was one of the best admins around... this makes no sense.
if by best you mean not one of the best. i was a little bit surprised when one of my clanmates on modo pointed out to me that Bel got fired today. oh well, Hannes, you just made my day. much love hannes. much, much, much love
Well then I feel it is only right that you return. While some of what you did was not correct, the posting of mod information, the way you went about it, etc. in the end you are the reason we see Belgareth gone. Had you done nothing nothing would have changed. I realize it will probably be hard for the staff to reinstate you but I believe it is the right move. In my limited knowledge of T2 you are one of the better posters there and lets be honest, now is not a time to be picking new mods who have never modded T2 and have no one to learn from. I think the correct move is to bring you back and then appoint another member who you can teach.
The only little nitpick that I have to mention, is that I still don't feel that I posted any "mod information". All I posted were my own personal beliefs, what happened to me, and chat logs that happened between me and Bel. The ONLY thing which I technically ripped from the mod lounge, was the chat between Bel and Senori, which in my opinion does NOT apply since it never occurred in the mod lounge to begin with. It just happened to have been reported in there. This is something people have kept saying, and I still feel that I didn't cross the line as I tried to leave the mod lounge out of my post as much as possible. Regardless, that's neither here nor there.
The rest of what you said is up to opinion really... I'd like to agree with you, but I definitely have a large bias on my own part because let's face it, I'm human and to a certain extent I'm self-serving. I liked being a mod, because I could make a difference. I can't really do that anymore, so naturally, I'd like to return so I could start making a difference again. But that is up to the remaining staff, not any of us.
I finally finished reading all that! Now I have some (hopefully) intelligent questions that won't make me too much like a newbie.
Who or what is the Called?
What's up with IBTG? What happened? What's with Banning him or banning those who want to ban him? Who's Tom Guevin? I've seen some of his posts, and he can be harsh, but he also seemed to know what he was talking about.
Edit: Could someone please make some links to some of these posts/threads who are refering to?
Look at all the people currently viewing this thread!
I finally finished reading all that! Now I have some (hopefully) intelligent questions that won't make me too much like a newbie.
Who or what is the Called?
What's up with IBTG? What happened? What's with Banning him or banning those who want to ban him? Who's Tom Guevin? I've seen some of his posts, and he can be harsh, but he also seemed to know what he was talking about.
Edit: Could someone please make some links to some of these posts/threads who are refering to?
The Called is a clan which used to include Belgareth until he left. R_E, Mike, and Cyan are examples of members although Mike's return is currently being debated.
IBTG is a T2 poster. There was alot of controversy around him and I am unsure which post made you ask this but with Mike being the ex-T2 mod that is probably why IBTG was brought up. He flamed alot of people and that is why there was so much debate over banning him.
LOL, the IBTG thing happened a long time ago... and has nothing to do with any of this. He is now unsuspended, but I'm not sure if he's posting or not. I've heard that he doesn't want to post from some people, but others have said that they've seen him post again... I'm not sure.
Regardless, I don't think anything about all that has happened should be posted up. I don't feel that bringing back all the drama would be a wise move, since threads on both Salvation and News have already been closed, leaving this as the only venting point. And this is not meant to be the place to bicker about what happened in the past that has now been resolved.
Well then I feel it is only right that you return. While some of what you did was not correct, the posting of mod information, the way you went about it, etc. in the end you are the reason we see Belgareth gone.
Speculation? We don't know for sure why Belgareth was fired and probably won't. Hannes will not be commenting on this in the future.
I just had to post here. I'm still teary-eyed, and I cried all last night.
I love Bel, he was a great friend, and I will miss his presence here on MTGS.
I'm going to leave it at that. Anything else and I would start crying again and make myself look like a fool. But I don't care, as I'm very sad about this.
And don't say Bel will be forgotten...he will never be forgotten by the people he was close to.
(Edit: I disagree with the thing about meeting people online. I first met my boyfriend online through a mutual friend, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I've met numerous friends online who I've been closer to than friends in real life. I'm not saying I only have online friends, I'm just saying that friends are friends. And Bel was is a great friend, even if we talk over the internet)
Just read through this thread, and I have a lot of thoughts, and there's a lot to say, but I find myself wanting to be brief. Not because I want to seem detached from it (actually I was involved fairly closely with it), and not because I don't care - because on some level I do. I want to be brief because I've had just about enough of the whole thing. I think this is why Hannes is being so brief, too... he's getting burned out by all of this, after having worked on it and dealt with it behind the scenes for 10+ hours a day for the past few days. It's unfortunate that being brief about things like this makes people paranoid, causes people to accuse you of not caring, or of trying to "cover up and smooth over the problem". I don't think that's the case. Perhaps when Hannes (and others) are up to it, they'll be able to fully explain what happened and why. Unfortunately, that would likely just cause more drama in the form of accusations and "no that's not true, I heard it went down differently!"
I enjoy this site, the game, rumours, making up cards, my clan. I even have some "friendships" with people here, if you can actually be "friends" with someone online. I wish people were able to be a bit more detached, though. We're all sitting in chairs, typing about Magic on a website. That's what I always say to myself when things seem heated or messed up. We're using this site to get enjoyment out of it, that's all. I'm not here to make myself seem cool to people I don't know, or get a false sense of control by being a moderator, or to make "modem buddies". Are you?
I wish we could all go for a beer (or pepsi), play some Magic, and not fight/cry/get angry/worry about things like this.
What's most troubling to me isn't staff changes, but people's reactions to them.
I know salvation will live on thats not what I was shuddering about....I am more worried about a certain Scrub infested area *cought2cough* as now IBTG and Bel which where two of the best posters on there are gone which leaves me Mike and a few others to keep the place from turning into
-[Official Thread]5 color zubera wins yay ^^'
wow...your sounding more like IBTG every minute, with the scrub references lol. Im positive that the T2 forums are not going to go down hill without IBTG and bel. bel wasn't really incredibly active there, and when he was, i seem to remember ppl questioning his strategy and what not. And if you think that they are going to fall apart without IBTG...well then i dont know what to say...
yes IBTG was porobably one of the best t2 strategist who was posting, but his attitude was not positive on the site. he was also recently banned from MTGnews as well. chasing away the "scrubs" as he, and now you, like to call them, isnt good for site. his noob eating attitude im sure scared away many a member form posting after he tore into them. Causing ppl to refrain from posting, whether they are a noob or scrub, or not, isnt something benificial for the site IMO.
In case you didnt see this, ill direct you to a post by cyan in another thread that i dont think could have been said any better.
No one should be surprised by this turn of events, pratically everyone whom posts in T2(and some people that don't) have been clamoring for this to happen for months...IBTG is a good strategist, but, his attitude is abysmal. And it's not that the 'noobs' stress him, I don't think..he's rude and intolerant towards any idea that isn't his own, even if that idea comes from other posters that are normally well-respected. Or from Mike Flores after he placed 2nd at States. In the 2 or so years that I can remember from when he started posting, he has always had the same mentality...his ideas are simply superior to everyone else's, regardless of what the idea is, or regardless of how well he can/cannot prove said idea. He smothers people into not arguing with him anymore, and as such, 'wins debates' and people think that he's a superb strategist because eventually no one wants to argue w/ him anymore.
Quote from Cyan »
Anyone whom frequents T2 regularly will likely attest to the fact that the forum is much better off for not having IBTG around. Yes, he's a pretty good strategist(it's impossible to say how good, since he consistently dodges/attacks any question regarding his previous achievements)..but he's not good enough to mean running off countless amounts of posters, which is what he does. It shouldn't matter if someone is a 'noob' or has alot of bad ideas..that is just one more person that COULD become a great poster, if you take the time and energy to talk to them and explain things to them...they shouldn't be run off just because they're new. Everyone is new to the game at some point. Alot of the notions about magic that I had when I first started posting, I look back at now, and I"m appalled at myself..but people didn't treat me like **** and mock me/my ideas and try to run me out of the building, which is what IBTG does to anyone that doesn't agree w/ him.
Belgareth being let go is not going to change anything in the T2 forums. I just dont think he had a large enough impact in that particular section for it to make any difference.
Speculation? We don't know for sure why Belgareth was fired and probably won't. Hannes will not be commenting on this in the future.
Well no it is not speculation. I may have misspoke though. Mike may not be the reason that Belgareth is gone, but one must say that he triggered it. I mean had Mike and Will not done what they did do you really think that all of what has happened in the past day would have happened?
@R_E: In that case I do not think we need to know. While I support the general community knowing the truth, in the end do we really need to know? If we are really here just to have fun, as you noted and as we should be, why does it matter? I do take issue with one of your statements though. You imply that one can not make friends on this site? "Modem Buddies"? I mean, I do not consider my friends on this site like the ones I know in real life but I think it is unfair to say we can not have friendships here...As for people getting worked up I think it just shows how much people care about the site.
Just read through this thread, and I have a lot of thoughts, and there's a lot to say, but I find myself wanting to be brief. Not because I want to seem detached from it (actually I was involved fairly closely with it), and not because I don't care - because on some level I do. I want to be brief because I've had just about enough of the whole thing. I think this is why Hannes is being so brief, too... he's getting burned out by all of this, after having worked on it and dealt with it behind the scenes for 10+ hours a day for the past few days. It's unfortunate that being brief about things like this makes people paranoid, causes people to accuse you of not caring, or of trying to "cover up and smooth over the problem". I don't think that's the case. Perhaps when Hannes (and others) are up to it, they'll be able to fully explain what happened and why. Unfortunately, that would likely just cause more drama in the form of accusations and "no that's not true, I heard it went down differently!"
I enjoy this site, the game, rumours, making up cards, my clan. I even have some "friendships" with people here, if you can actually be "friends" with someone online. I wish people were able to be a bit more detached, though. We're all sitting in chairs, typing about Magic on a website. That's what I always say to myself when things seem heated or messed up. We're using this site to get enjoyment out of it, that's all. I'm not here to make myself seem cool to people I don't know, or get a false sense of control by being a moderator, or to make "modem buddies". Are you?
I wish we could all go for a beer (or pepsi), play some Magic, and not fight/cry/get angry/worry about things like this.
What's most troubling to me isn't staff changes, but people's reactions to them.
Amen.
I've been trying to gather information on the whole thing and personally, from what I've got, I don't think either Mike or Bel should be allowed back. I have nothing against either of them, but what happened shouldn't have and I think it's grounds for removal. Like I said, it's sad to see them go, but I think it's for the best. I won't be sharing what information I have, becuase for all I know it's still wrong. But based on what I have, those are my thoughts. Also, I don't think, as has been pointed out, that releasing that info would do anything productive.
Let's just leave it at that and move on. We've still got a great site here, even if it is just a bunch of guys in chairs typing about a game :tongue2: Anyway, good luck to you guys elsewhere, or I hope you still enjoy the site if you stick around.
On a completely unrelated note @ R_E, the period goes inside the quotes, i.e. "modem buddies." Sorry, I have a grammar Nazi thing going on. *Twitches*
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
And to all those who are asking here that didn't know, yes *I* too have a relationship with a fellow member.
We didn't meet here. We *did* meet online, and we *do* have a long-distance relationship, and we *do* know each other in real life. We have been together. We have hugged, kissed, touched each other, so it's not an "online relationship."
It's similiar to Bel and Raia, actually. So surprise, surprise. There *are* relationships in these forums! Don't be so shocked. And don't be annoyed by it. Love is love.
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Man..rancored_elf makes a really well-spoken, thoughout, intelligent post..and all I'll ever remember out of it is 'modem buddies'.
So sorry I ruined it for you :tongue2::wink:
Quote from DeceitfulBeauty »
And to all those who are asking here that didn't know, yes *I* too have a relationship with a fellow member.
We didn't meet here. We *did* meet online, and we *do* have a long-distance relationship, and we *do* know each other in real life. We have been together. We have hugged, kissed, touched each other, so it's not an "online relationship."
It's similiar to Bel and Raia, actually. So surprise, surprise. There *are* relationships in these forums! Don't be so shocked. And don't be annoyed by it. Love is love.
And yes, we are/have done all of that. And again, I'm so sorry we're ruining things for the rest of you *Points to custom tag*
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
First, let me say that, with a few exceptions, this thread is uncharacteristically mature as far as reactions to MTGS site news goes. Thank you all for that.
@doomsayers: the sky is not falling
@second admin: We are most definitely going through the potential admins. Administrating a site of this size is not a job that should be done alone, nor is it one that anyone should want to do alone.
@CM: You were a great T2 mod, but your spamming a few days ago was entirely unacceptable behavior. I know you realize that. We'll see about remodding, but don't keep your hopes up. I do hope you'll continue to post in T2, though. You're a great strategist.
@RE: your post? 'Twas totally tubular
Bel, you will most definitely be missed, especially if you decide to stop posting entirely. Get some sleep, buddy :-/.
* sneakyhomunculus wonders if anyone is up for a discussion of post-modernism...
No, we're not, and don't even try to start one :tongue2:. Rancored_elf is right, though. Yes, some of the friendships on here either turn into dating relationships or playtesting groups IRL, but for the most part that is not the case. It's too bad that we had to lose quite a few good posters over this, but this overreaction is rather pointless, aside from prologning the whole event.
I've been involved with quite a few websites, bulletin boards, newsgroups and so on over the years. Belgareth is a hero for the amount of work he put in, it's that simple. But the same applies to a number of other people working on the site and it goes double for Hannes running the show. It's not about the fights, or about the people who leave, it's about the people who contribute. And not just admins and mods, but active users too.
I find it amusing that Salvation is still being compared to News. In case it's not yet obvious: Salvation is heading for far more exciting places than News ever was. It's still a site that's only just beginning to sense its own potential.
Lastly, I salute Raia for her decision to stay on.
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Quoted for truthery.
Crazy Mike is staying! That's pretty sweet. But now Hannes must do what is right and make me a mod. I love Hannes. And I love Crazy Mike.
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I have tried.. but things are hard for him right now.. he has stated he has no desire to return..
As much as I want him here.. I can understand his feelings on the matter and I support him regardless of his choice.
He's pulling an MD. He'll be back in 3 days.
If you post at News at all, you know the humor in that.
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Well then I feel it is only right that you return. While some of what you did was not correct, the posting of mod information, the way you went about it, etc. in the end you are the reason we see Belgareth gone. Had you done nothing nothing would have changed. I realize it will probably be hard for the staff to reinstate you but I believe it is the right move. In my limited knowledge of T2 you are one of the better posters there and lets be honest, now is not a time to be picking new mods who have never modded T2 and have no one to learn from. I think the correct move is to bring you back and then appoint another member who you can teach.
Just my feelings but it seems after what I have seen from Mike today and what he has done before in T2 that he should be reinstated.
anyone else feel like dancing?:dance:
The only little nitpick that I have to mention, is that I still don't feel that I posted any "mod information". All I posted were my own personal beliefs, what happened to me, and chat logs that happened between me and Bel. The ONLY thing which I technically ripped from the mod lounge, was the chat between Bel and Senori, which in my opinion does NOT apply since it never occurred in the mod lounge to begin with. It just happened to have been reported in there. This is something people have kept saying, and I still feel that I didn't cross the line as I tried to leave the mod lounge out of my post as much as possible. Regardless, that's neither here nor there.
The rest of what you said is up to opinion really... I'd like to agree with you, but I definitely have a large bias on my own part because let's face it, I'm human and to a certain extent I'm self-serving. I liked being a mod, because I could make a difference. I can't really do that anymore, so naturally, I'd like to return so I could start making a difference again. But that is up to the remaining staff, not any of us.
Who or what is the Called?
What's up with IBTG? What happened? What's with Banning him or banning those who want to ban him? Who's Tom Guevin? I've seen some of his posts, and he can be harsh, but he also seemed to know what he was talking about.
Edit: Could someone please make some links to some of these posts/threads who are refering to?
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The Called is a clan which used to include Belgareth until he left. R_E, Mike, and Cyan are examples of members although Mike's return is currently being debated.
IBTG is a T2 poster. There was alot of controversy around him and I am unsure which post made you ask this but with Mike being the ex-T2 mod that is probably why IBTG was brought up. He flamed alot of people and that is why there was so much debate over banning him.
Regardless, I don't think anything about all that has happened should be posted up. I don't feel that bringing back all the drama would be a wise move, since threads on both Salvation and News have already been closed, leaving this as the only venting point. And this is not meant to be the place to bicker about what happened in the past that has now been resolved.
Speculation? We don't know for sure why Belgareth was fired and probably won't. Hannes will not be commenting on this in the future.
That might start a salv' armageddon ... :wink2:
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I love Bel, he was a great friend, and I will miss his presence here on MTGS.
I'm going to leave it at that. Anything else and I would start crying again and make myself look like a fool. But I don't care, as I'm very sad about this.
And don't say Bel will be forgotten...he will never be forgotten by the people he was close to.
(Edit: I disagree with the thing about meeting people online. I first met my boyfriend online through a mutual friend, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I've met numerous friends online who I've been closer to than friends in real life. I'm not saying I only have online friends, I'm just saying that friends are friends. And Bel was is a great friend, even if we talk over the internet)
I enjoy this site, the game, rumours, making up cards, my clan. I even have some "friendships" with people here, if you can actually be "friends" with someone online. I wish people were able to be a bit more detached, though. We're all sitting in chairs, typing about Magic on a website. That's what I always say to myself when things seem heated or messed up. We're using this site to get enjoyment out of it, that's all. I'm not here to make myself seem cool to people I don't know, or get a false sense of control by being a moderator, or to make "modem buddies". Are you?
I wish we could all go for a beer (or pepsi), play some Magic, and not fight/cry/get angry/worry about things like this.
What's most troubling to me isn't staff changes, but people's reactions to them.
.
wow...your sounding more like IBTG every minute, with the scrub references lol. Im positive that the T2 forums are not going to go down hill without IBTG and bel. bel wasn't really incredibly active there, and when he was, i seem to remember ppl questioning his strategy and what not. And if you think that they are going to fall apart without IBTG...well then i dont know what to say...
yes IBTG was porobably one of the best t2 strategist who was posting, but his attitude was not positive on the site. he was also recently banned from MTGnews as well. chasing away the "scrubs" as he, and now you, like to call them, isnt good for site. his noob eating attitude im sure scared away many a member form posting after he tore into them. Causing ppl to refrain from posting, whether they are a noob or scrub, or not, isnt something benificial for the site IMO.
In case you didnt see this, ill direct you to a post by cyan in another thread that i dont think could have been said any better.
No one should be surprised by this turn of events, pratically everyone whom posts in T2(and some people that don't) have been clamoring for this to happen for months...IBTG is a good strategist, but, his attitude is abysmal. And it's not that the 'noobs' stress him, I don't think..he's rude and intolerant towards any idea that isn't his own, even if that idea comes from other posters that are normally well-respected. Or from Mike Flores after he placed 2nd at States. In the 2 or so years that I can remember from when he started posting, he has always had the same mentality...his ideas are simply superior to everyone else's, regardless of what the idea is, or regardless of how well he can/cannot prove said idea. He smothers people into not arguing with him anymore, and as such, 'wins debates' and people think that he's a superb strategist because eventually no one wants to argue w/ him anymore.
Belgareth being let go is not going to change anything in the T2 forums. I just dont think he had a large enough impact in that particular section for it to make any difference.
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Well no it is not speculation. I may have misspoke though. Mike may not be the reason that Belgareth is gone, but one must say that he triggered it. I mean had Mike and Will not done what they did do you really think that all of what has happened in the past day would have happened?
@R_E: In that case I do not think we need to know. While I support the general community knowing the truth, in the end do we really need to know? If we are really here just to have fun, as you noted and as we should be, why does it matter? I do take issue with one of your statements though. You imply that one can not make friends on this site? "Modem Buddies"? I mean, I do not consider my friends on this site like the ones I know in real life but I think it is unfair to say we can not have friendships here...As for people getting worked up I think it just shows how much people care about the site.
I've been trying to gather information on the whole thing and personally, from what I've got, I don't think either Mike or Bel should be allowed back. I have nothing against either of them, but what happened shouldn't have and I think it's grounds for removal. Like I said, it's sad to see them go, but I think it's for the best. I won't be sharing what information I have, becuase for all I know it's still wrong. But based on what I have, those are my thoughts. Also, I don't think, as has been pointed out, that releasing that info would do anything productive.
Let's just leave it at that and move on. We've still got a great site here, even if it is just a bunch of guys in chairs typing about a game :tongue2: Anyway, good luck to you guys elsewhere, or I hope you still enjoy the site if you stick around.
On a completely unrelated note @ R_E, the period goes inside the quotes, i.e. "modem buddies." Sorry, I have a grammar Nazi thing going on. *Twitches*
Guildmaster Jarad
Period inside the quotes is more of an American convention, I believe.
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
We didn't meet here. We *did* meet online, and we *do* have a long-distance relationship, and we *do* know each other in real life. We have been together. We have hugged, kissed, touched each other, so it's not an "online relationship."
It's similiar to Bel and Raia, actually.
So surprise, surprise. There *are* relationships in these forums!
Don't be so shocked. And don't be annoyed by it.
Love is love.
Guildmaster Jarad
@doomsayers: the sky is not falling
@second admin: We are most definitely going through the potential admins. Administrating a site of this size is not a job that should be done alone, nor is it one that anyone should want to do alone.
@CM: You were a great T2 mod, but your spamming a few days ago was entirely unacceptable behavior. I know you realize that. We'll see about remodding, but don't keep your hopes up. I do hope you'll continue to post in T2, though. You're a great strategist.
@RE: your post? 'Twas totally tubular
Bel, you will most definitely be missed, especially if you decide to stop posting entirely. Get some sleep, buddy :-/.
Oh, yeah, we're sooo jealous of your long distance relationship.
j/k
R_E, you speak the truth. I have finally come full circle to respect you.
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No, we're not, and don't even try to start one :tongue2:. Rancored_elf is right, though. Yes, some of the friendships on here either turn into dating relationships or playtesting groups IRL, but for the most part that is not the case. It's too bad that we had to lose quite a few good posters over this, but this overreaction is rather pointless, aside from prologning the whole event.
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
I find it amusing that Salvation is still being compared to News. In case it's not yet obvious: Salvation is heading for far more exciting places than News ever was. It's still a site that's only just beginning to sense its own potential.
Lastly, I salute Raia for her decision to stay on.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
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