Mods, could this be posted in all of the forum sections? That way, people would be sure to see it.
I posted on the rumour mill because it would get more visibility there, and i darn hope wizards gets a HUGE outcry over this so we can save The Rancored One.
They got alot of hate mail about pro player cards but that sure didn't stop them from continuing those. Same with the new card faces. Same with everything magic fans dislike.
You're right Goblinboy, I apologize. I am just in a such a mood right now that i didn't even think of that.
Anyway, my email has been sent.
Quote from OneUglyHobbit »
They got alot of hate mail about pro player cards but that sure didn't stop them from continuing those. Same with the new card faces. Same with everything magic fans dislike.
Wrong attitude. This is MUCH more importante than any of those things you said. We're talking about a human being.
The objective here is to give wizards an idea of how many people they have agains them right now due to taking that position agains a certain person.
I made my voice heard, and soon I'll make my wallet heard too. I'm not going to the pre-release, and I'm not going to FNM anymore until this is over with and the Spoiling continues.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Getting the last word does not mean that you win the argument.
Rancored Elf hasn't done anything illegal or immoral. This is most likely a scare tactic to try to cow him into quiting his position. If they succeed, not only will he suffer, but we can also look forward to much more of this kind of pressure form WOTC in the future. It's important that you email Wizards NOW, so that we can show solidarity, numbers and our support for Rancored Elf and spoilers in general.
Hi people,
I'm starting this new thread because,as I write, [MTGS] WotC Sues rancored_elf has reached 40 pages and being so big it's not going to be of any use to a constructive discussion.
In my opinion the entire point of the lawsuit are the scans of the playtest cards for a future set being in this site a while ago. They're showing a few possible mechanics for this oncoming set, but some of this mechanics won't make it through the development, and WotC doesn't want us to think "this set is lame" just because we saw some unbalanced mechanics one year earlier. And on the other end, this cards are "confidential company information", in fact people at Wotc is smart enough to print them already with a copyright symbol. So, in my opinion, there are two possibilities:
1) WotC is suing Rancored Elf to protect the next set, or
2) WotC doesn't like rumors and spoilers, and is taking advantage (or they secret services leaked it by purpose?) of the showing of those copyrighted cards on MTG Salvation to attack all the rumors system (sources -> R_E -> MTGS).
Said this, it's really pissing me off, and everybody else I suppose, that a Huge corporation is suing a single citizen even before issuing a "cease and desist" comunication.
I think it's a natural instinct to rage against the bullying of the strong against the weak, and it hurts me even more if the bullying one is the corporate I've been giving money since I was eleven years old.
I think that we, as the community, should do something to make WotC aware of their mistake, and this something in my opinion should consist of:
1) Pressure: let's mail MaRO, Ask Wizards, Forsythe and let them now that we, the MTG buyers, don't like the conduct of their corporation.
2) Boycott: if within a week there isn't not a satisfactory answer from the WotC, I won't buy any Guildpact product, let them be booster packs, singles or attending limited tournamentes. This is a very huge weapon we have, and it's should be used carefully.
Ending, I'm asking you not to spam this thread. Let me know what do you think, but don't just write "You suck00rz" or "I agree with you, man", so to keep the post count low and the discussion constructive.
I don't believe real legal action will be taken agains RE, i agree with others who say wizards decided to "scare off" spoilers to prevent and deter future "spoiling" of sets".
Now the reason for this baffles me. Spoiler lists are GOOD for product sale and they've been around since as long as the massification of the internet. It didn't bother them before.
Maybe it has to do with those playtest cards thing. I don't know, I'm really confused about this
i agree about an effective boycott of guild pact. It may even be considered to boycott the pre-release, but i understand that its ufeisable due to pre-reg and other things. As someone going to law school currently, i doubt that this case can stand up in court unless there is actual stealing of information or specific copyright laws being infringed upon. looks like a good question to ask my professor.
I've made this point in the other thread but boycott-ing is not the answer, we just won't be able to make a large enough boycott for it to actually hurt wizards(i'm thinking we'd need at least 10% if not 25% of the worlds magic population commited to a boycott for it to work).
Lets face it this community is not the magic playing world, we're the online spoiler/forum using community and for the most part we're the english speaking group of that community. Even among this community i doubt we could get a very high count involved in the boycott, this is for many reasons, some people just don't care(i'm definitely not one of them), some people are too addicted to magic to manage it(i'm probably one of these) and many people have already pre-paid for pre-releases and stock.
Also boycotting magic just hurts the stores who have already ordered and paid for their stock. I don't know about you guys but i'm good friends with my local card shops and wouldn't consider doing it to them. Also R_E runs an online store for magic so a boycott would hurt him too.
My advice support R_E and MTGS in anyway you can by complaining through the wizards and hasbro sites and by emailing and letters, but don't stop buying/playing magic because of this because all your doing is hurting yourself.
It is not MaRo that is the problem, it is the suits...i for one have ALREADY written an email to the actual corporates who are most likely responsible for this outrage:
[EMAIL="corporateinfo@wizards.com"]corporateinfo@wizards.com[/EMAIL]
this is the people to whom our voices must be heard...as i said on the other page...stand up for your right to freedom of press!
a boycott, i feel, however, will not be neccesary or practical...i do not believe they have a proverbial leg to stand on, but if they do, a boycott, though a powerful weapon indeed, will not work, and it will not even be so much as noticed...if everyone on this site boycotted, then yes, we would be more then enough to get pretty much anything done we wanted...but sadly, that is not the case...we could try, but only a small number of us would actually boycott...we care too much about this game...if we didnt, then we wouldnt be in this situation.
EDIT: I agree with the two posts above mine, which we psted while i was typing this, and would like to restate, MaRo and Forsythe arent the problems
Storyline nerd, sliver-lover, vegan, anarchist, pansexual, role-playing, tattoo-covered, punk kid. Those are all the applicable labels I can think of, I will add more as they pop up.
Current decks:
:symr::symw: Allies-Modern
:symg::symu: Infect-Old Standard that I need to update
And trying to decide what my next EDH will be.
I am a :symg::symrg::symr::symur::symu::symug: 'walker all the way.
So do we all just bombard MaRo with emails?
If so, do we start now?
Christ...
If you really want to make a difference, you don't start spamming people per email and pat yourself on the back. ESPECIALLY not people who just happen to be the 'face to the world' for the company that you're trying to get to. Yes, we all like to read Mark Rosewater's columns, and yes, we all deep down think that he's the head honcho behind Magic.
(Doing this is sorta like casting Char on the opponent's 6/6 creature, and THEN attacking with your 2/2 first striker. Plan ahead, ffs.)
A boycott's a good idea, but first you need to know if
a - the Salvation populace makes up a big enough percentage of the market for a boycott to get noticed.
b - people *are* actually going to not buy GP, or if it's just their boiling blood talking.
My advice would be to write an open letter to Hasbro (probably written by MTGS co-moderators or any prominent members we can find), which addresses what the MTGS community means to us and to the sales of Magic. The letter is then signed by anyone who cares to sign, complete with how many years they've played Magic. And for added effect, how much money each spends on Magic annually, just so Hasbro can add up the numbers for themselves.
Also, any other Magic community sites who wish to back it up should be put in as co-authors, just to show that stuff like this goes around the Internet fast, and is not just isolated to one URL.
(And for the full effect, call the document Elfpact and give the title Parun to each one who's signed.)
It's highly unlikely for WotC to be doing this of their own accord. This is Hasbro looking over their shoulder and compelling them to do something about this "problem".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"One skilled at battle takes a stand in the ground of no defeat
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
Your intention is admirable, but, such a boycott is simply not ever going to work. For one thing, for every one person on here that loves spoilers and just can't imagine living without them(I'm not going to bother debating this point), there are 5 people that only post on mtg.com and do idiotic things like vote for Blackmail over Addle. I mean, people that never view the full spoiler and only go to the Pre-Release knowing the information that WotC wants them to know.
Besides, honestly, you are acting like babies. Magic is WotC's product, and if they don't want information about it leaked, that is their right. I'd say they've been pretty understanding about cards that are already in production being leaked, but, it's understandable that they draw the line at future playtest scans for cards that might not ever even exist, especially when those cards receive such negative feedback as they did.
If you think WotC is actually going to do something to Daron, you're being ridiculous. They're just using him to get whatever information they can on the people that gave him the info. Though, admittedly, they will likely use this as a convenient opportunity to force him into a contractually-binding situation where he cannot post anymore information that is leaked to him. Of course, if his sources are even remotely intelligent, they're probably not going to leak information to him for awhile anyway. And some of them have likely been busted already, through misinformation like Wreak Havoc, Sins of the Past, Moonlight Bargain.
It is. They were probably angry the Snap mechanics were revealed while they still have not been decided yet. It wasn't R_E fault because he got them from an unknown source.
I think it's best to write a single big document for all than to spam in their mailboxes... it shows them that we are united
in the document we can say what we think it's wrong and maybe, if possible suggest a solution to the problem, help them understand what's wrong...
I think it's very important to show our point of view
I don't think that simply boicotting WotC helps make things better...
we have to show what they are doing wrong, at the end WE are their employer... it's US that gives them the money, that buys their products, that keep them alive...
but again, this is only my opinion
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The bird of wonder dies, the maiden phoenix,
Her ashes new-create another heir
As great in admiration as herself.”
—William Shakespeare, King Henry the Eighth
My advice would be to write an open letter to Hasbro (probably written by MTGS co-moderators or any prominent members we can find), which addresses what the MTGS community means to us and to the sales of Magic. The letter is then signed by anyone who cares to sign, complete with how many years they've played Magic. And for added effect, how much money each spends on Magic annually, just so Hasbro can add up the numbers for themselves.
Also, any other Magic community sites who wish to back it up should be put in as co-authors, just to show that stuff like this goes around the Internet fast, and is not just isolated to one URL.
(And for the full effect, call the document Elfpact and give the title Parun to each one who's signed.)
Now that is an idea that might work. At least we will probably get some information out of them.
As for the case, I don't think they want to "punish" R_E per sé, but I do think they want to get the names from his sources. The problem lies not with R_E himself, and I think WotC is well aware of that. This is for them a chance to weed out their "leaky" employees, not a chance to ruin an online magic community. In other words, I don't expect we will need to donate money, as R_E himself can hardly be faulted.
I may not be a legal lawer or anything but does wotc have a disclaimer abuout how its illigal to copy and paste scans of prototypes on the internet? People take "illigal" pictures of cars all the time, its basically the same principal
People are posting like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off. I suggest everyone just calm down, let Rancored Elf see what developes, and then if he feels we as a community can help him is some way, then great, let him make the suggestions since it is his problem.
If everyone puts into plan some knee jerk reaction, it won't be that effective. Basically you have Bobby Magic player sitting at home watching Reruns of Star Trek saying boy I sure did show them Wizards guys. Meanwhile hundreds of others are enjoying a pre-release, .
Until Rancored Elf gives a little more detail, save you mail bombs, enjoy your lives, and relax. Yeesh.
It is. They were probably angry the Snap mechanics were revealed while they still have not been decided yet. It wasn't R_E fault because he got them from an unknown source.
How have the snap mechanics not been decided yet? This must have been a few months ago, since snap should be finalized by now. They're at least a year ahead in development.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=company/pr/20060119a
Email wizards now! Serious emails onle plese. We HAVE to be taken seriously!!
[EMAIL="corporateinfo@wizards.com"]corporateinfo@wizards.com[/EMAIL]
Don't Censor Evade
This effort is not officially sponsored or supported by MTGSalvation.
sig by topher http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=18949
I posted on the rumour mill because it would get more visibility there, and i darn hope wizards gets a HUGE outcry over this so we can save The Rancored One.
sig by topher http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=18949
No, because this is not being officially sponsored by the site.
Anyway, my email has been sent.
Wrong attitude. This is MUCH more importante than any of those things you said. We're talking about a human being.
The objective here is to give wizards an idea of how many people they have agains them right now due to taking that position agains a certain person.
sig by topher http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=18949
I'm starting this new thread because,as I write, [MTGS] WotC Sues rancored_elf has reached 40 pages and being so big it's not going to be of any use to a constructive discussion.
In my opinion the entire point of the lawsuit are the scans of the playtest cards for a future set being in this site a while ago. They're showing a few possible mechanics for this oncoming set, but some of this mechanics won't make it through the development, and WotC doesn't want us to think "this set is lame" just because we saw some unbalanced mechanics one year earlier. And on the other end, this cards are "confidential company information", in fact people at Wotc is smart enough to print them already with a copyright symbol. So, in my opinion, there are two possibilities:
1) WotC is suing Rancored Elf to protect the next set, or
2) WotC doesn't like rumors and spoilers, and is taking advantage (or they secret services leaked it by purpose?) of the showing of those copyrighted cards on MTG Salvation to attack all the rumors system (sources -> R_E -> MTGS).
Said this, it's really pissing me off, and everybody else I suppose, that a Huge corporation is suing a single citizen even before issuing a "cease and desist" comunication.
I think it's a natural instinct to rage against the bullying of the strong against the weak, and it hurts me even more if the bullying one is the corporate I've been giving money since I was eleven years old.
I think that we, as the community, should do something to make WotC aware of their mistake, and this something in my opinion should consist of:
1) Pressure: let's mail MaRO, Ask Wizards, Forsythe and let them now that we, the MTG buyers, don't like the conduct of their corporation.
2) Boycott: if within a week there isn't not a satisfactory answer from the WotC, I won't buy any Guildpact product, let them be booster packs, singles or attending limited tournamentes. This is a very huge weapon we have, and it's should be used carefully.
Ending, I'm asking you not to spam this thread. Let me know what do you think, but don't just write "You suck00rz" or "I agree with you, man", so to keep the post count low and the discussion constructive.
Now the reason for this baffles me. Spoiler lists are GOOD for product sale and they've been around since as long as the massification of the internet. It didn't bother them before.
Maybe it has to do with those playtest cards thing. I don't know, I'm really confused about this
sig by topher http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=18949
www.bucultureshock.com
www.skidmarkpoetry.blogspot.com
Lets face it this community is not the magic playing world, we're the online spoiler/forum using community and for the most part we're the english speaking group of that community. Even among this community i doubt we could get a very high count involved in the boycott, this is for many reasons, some people just don't care(i'm definitely not one of them), some people are too addicted to magic to manage it(i'm probably one of these) and many people have already pre-paid for pre-releases and stock.
Also boycotting magic just hurts the stores who have already ordered and paid for their stock. I don't know about you guys but i'm good friends with my local card shops and wouldn't consider doing it to them. Also R_E runs an online store for magic so a boycott would hurt him too.
My advice support R_E and MTGS in anyway you can by complaining through the wizards and hasbro sites and by emailing and letters, but don't stop buying/playing magic because of this because all your doing is hurting yourself.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
[EMAIL="corporateinfo@wizards.com"]corporateinfo@wizards.com[/EMAIL]
this is the people to whom our voices must be heard...as i said on the other page...stand up for your right to freedom of press!
a boycott, i feel, however, will not be neccesary or practical...i do not believe they have a proverbial leg to stand on, but if they do, a boycott, though a powerful weapon indeed, will not work, and it will not even be so much as noticed...if everyone on this site boycotted, then yes, we would be more then enough to get pretty much anything done we wanted...but sadly, that is not the case...we could try, but only a small number of us would actually boycott...we care too much about this game...if we didnt, then we wouldnt be in this situation.
EDIT: I agree with the two posts above mine, which we psted while i was typing this, and would like to restate, MaRo and Forsythe arent the problems
:symg::symu: Infect-Old Standard that I need to update
And trying to decide what my next EDH will be.
I am a :symg::symrg::symr::symur::symu::symug: 'walker all the way.
Christ...
If you really want to make a difference, you don't start spamming people per email and pat yourself on the back. ESPECIALLY not people who just happen to be the 'face to the world' for the company that you're trying to get to. Yes, we all like to read Mark Rosewater's columns, and yes, we all deep down think that he's the head honcho behind Magic.
(Doing this is sorta like casting Char on the opponent's 6/6 creature, and THEN attacking with your 2/2 first striker. Plan ahead, ffs.)
A boycott's a good idea, but first you need to know if
a - the Salvation populace makes up a big enough percentage of the market for a boycott to get noticed.
b - people *are* actually going to not buy GP, or if it's just their boiling blood talking.
My advice would be to write an open letter to Hasbro (probably written by MTGS co-moderators or any prominent members we can find), which addresses what the MTGS community means to us and to the sales of Magic. The letter is then signed by anyone who cares to sign, complete with how many years they've played Magic. And for added effect, how much money each spends on Magic annually, just so Hasbro can add up the numbers for themselves.
Also, any other Magic community sites who wish to back it up should be put in as co-authors, just to show that stuff like this goes around the Internet fast, and is not just isolated to one URL.
(And for the full effect, call the document Elfpact and give the title Parun to each one who's signed.)
Don't use Mod Text
This isn't Wizards talking. This is Hasbro.
It's highly unlikely for WotC to be doing this of their own accord. This is Hasbro looking over their shoulder and compelling them to do something about this "problem".
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
do idiotic things like vote for Blackmail over Addle. I mean, people that never view the full spoiler and only go to the Pre-Release knowing the information that WotC wants them to know.Besides, honestly, you are acting like babies. Magic is WotC's product, and if they don't want information about it leaked, that is their right. I'd say they've been pretty understanding about cards that are already in production being leaked, but, it's understandable that they draw the line at future playtest scans for cards that might not ever even exist, especially when those cards receive such negative feedback as they did.
If you think WotC is actually going to do something to Daron, you're being ridiculous. They're just using him to get whatever information they can on the people that gave him the info. Though, admittedly, they will likely use this as a convenient opportunity to force him into a contractually-binding situation where he cannot post anymore information that is leaked to him. Of course, if his sources are even remotely intelligent, they're probably not going to leak information to him for awhile anyway. And some of them have likely been busted already, through misinformation like Wreak Havoc, Sins of the Past, Moonlight Bargain.
in the document we can say what we think it's wrong and maybe, if possible suggest a solution to the problem, help them understand what's wrong...
I think it's very important to show our point of view
I don't think that simply boicotting WotC helps make things better...
we have to show what they are doing wrong, at the end WE are their employer... it's US that gives them the money, that buys their products, that keep them alive...
but again, this is only my opinion
Her ashes new-create another heir
As great in admiration as herself.”
—William Shakespeare, King Henry the Eighth
As for the case, I don't think they want to "punish" R_E per sé, but I do think they want to get the names from his sources. The problem lies not with R_E himself, and I think WotC is well aware of that. This is for them a chance to weed out their "leaky" employees, not a chance to ruin an online magic community. In other words, I don't expect we will need to donate money, as R_E himself can hardly be faulted.
Thanks for the awesome sig Topher!
My Trades
MOTL
If everyone puts into plan some knee jerk reaction, it won't be that effective. Basically you have Bobby Magic player sitting at home watching Reruns of Star Trek saying boy I sure did show them Wizards guys. Meanwhile hundreds of others are enjoying a pre-release, .
Until Rancored Elf gives a little more detail, save you mail bombs, enjoy your lives, and relax. Yeesh.
How have the snap mechanics not been decided yet? This must have been a few months ago, since snap should be finalized by now. They're at least a year ahead in development.