This topic was created for the wrong reason.
There isn't so much trouble with spam in the rumor mill.
It is a trouble with posts that clog threads.
We have to delete posts that add nothing, so people won't have to wade through 50 garbage posts to find a good one.
It keeps the discussion good, and prevents it from turning sour.
I am very much against making posts not count in the rumor mill.
That sounds like a full-time job to delete dumb posts one-by-one in the Mill. What defines a good Mill post anyway? I can't imagine a quality post in an R_E thread. Either it's spam, doesn't add anything, or should be in New Card Discussion (or all 3).
I don't think that it should be turned off because some people do post good comments and don't post SPAM, what should they do? I know a lot of people including myself, come here mainly for the Rumor Mill.
I don't think that it should be turned off because some people do post good comments and don't post SPAM, what should they do? I know a lot of people including myself, come here mainly for the Rumor Mill.
If post counts matter to people so much that they feel they have to ask "OMG WHAT NOW MY NUMBER WON'T GO UP FROM MY QUALITY POSTS!??!?!111212?!" then that's all the more reason and proof that post counts should be turned off. Regardless that it is a simple, idiotic number under someone's avatar, people will STILL act stupid because of it. If it wasn't for post count this thread wouldn't have even been generated. Post count does NOTHING good for the community, absolutely nothing. It doesn't provide incentive to post besides spam to up the meaningless number that people for some reason act like they would just die without.
Let's get a fact straight: The rumor mill always has and always will be a spam generator. Every single post for the most part past the original post is almost always people saying the exact same thing over and over, and then some may, just may add another line because they don't want their post deleted and to lose that precious count from that post. It's been like this clear since the long-gone days of MTGnews' popularity and was a problem back then as well that people complained about. Why is it no one has the balls to just turn off the god damn post count?
This is why I feel "reaction" posts to cards shouldn't even be posts; that kind of discussion belongs in a temporary form, such as a chat channel, a shoutbox, etc. where anything posted disappears after a certain amount of time. Actual discussion about a card already has a place in NCD.
I don't think that it should be turned off because some people do post good comments and don't post SPAM, what should they do? I know a lot of people including myself, come here mainly for the Rumor Mill.
People post quality posts in Speak Your Mind - even with post counts not attributing here, we still do.
See the correlation?
Quality posts will remain with or without postcount. It's the crappy ones we're hoping to deter.
This is why I feel "reaction" posts to cards shouldn't even be posts; that kind of discussion belongs in a temporary form, such as a chat channel, a shoutbox, etc. where anything posted disappears after a certain amount of time. Actual discussion about a card already has a place in NCD.
Which is exactly why I've proposed this system for three years:
1. Thread creation is turned off for the Rumor Mill index and the Card Discussion sub-forum
2. New cards and rumors are to be sent to the Rumor Mill moderators, Global mods, or Admins via PM. This way, we don't get all the repeat threads we get during rumor seasons, and they can pick out the fakes themselves instead of letting a discussion about how fake a card is go on for 5 pages, wasting our time.
3. Said mods or admins will post rumors they believe to be post-worthy, but in locked threads, so that the threads are just for viewing.
4. Following the above step, they will make a discussion thread for this in the New Card Discussion forum, which should be named New Card & Rumor Discussion. The ability to make threads in here is disabled so to keep discussion about a certain card to one thread rather than five, though posting in threads is still available.
5. The Rumor Mill and the New Card Discussion would be locked for thread creation to avoid spam over the same topics, since rumors are being filtered through the staff. This will avoid cluttering the Rumor Mill index and keep it very clean, while spam and the current state can be contained in the subforum, where the moderators need to lighten up.
6. The Future Card Speculation forum can be used for everything else, as it generally is.
7. Assuming the post counts are not off forumwide, post counts would be off here and the moderators would stop deleting and warning people for spam, as discussion on a new card CREATES THIS SPAM. You can not go around giving people Spam warnings and deleting posts just because a every other post in the thread says the EXACT SAME THING but with two more words. It is unfair to the people whose post you've deleted, because quite honestly, when you have a rumor, what tends to be left to say after the first 10 posts? It's ridiculous; It creates an unpleasent and uptight atmosphere for the forum. You say that you delete and warn so people don't have to scroll through the same replies over and over, yet we still do. We have to go through 10 pages of it per rumored card. 1 word post vs. 5 word post, both say the same thing. Hmmm...
The only good reason not to have a system like this, is that some of the mods or admins might decide it takes too much effort; But in reality, how much more effort would this take than deleting 50 some odd posts from one rumor thread as the Rumor Mill is now? The moderators of the Rumor Mill are gluttons for pain and waste of time because they don't do things to make the situation better. This has been an issue for years upon years, yet no one has bothered to do anything about it. Why? I've offered a reasonable and sensible solution to the problem. The forum would be kept pleasing to the eye, they would become well organized, and overall it'd save time.
I'm just going to forget the issue of post counts.
Quote from kingcobweb »
What defines a good Mill post anyway? I can't imagine a quality post in an R_E thread. Either it's spam, doesn't add anything, or should be in New Card Discussion (or all 3).
I don't think that it should be turned off because some people do post good comments and don't post SPAM, what should they do? I know a lot of people including myself, come here mainly for the Rumor Mill.
Is post count really that important to you?
Personally, I think most of my posts (I hope! :)) are of decent quality. But I don't mind if none of my posts pile up into 1.5K+ of a number that's under my avatar.
Some say post counts can be used to find good posters in a forum, but that's not true; for the almost 12 months I've been here I have noticed that there are a lot quality posters with much, much less posts than people whose posts more often than not contain nothing significant. If your intent is to find your place in this community and look for the good people, then just simply hang around; interact. By the end of the first month I think you'll already have a good idea on who's nice to talk to.
But, if your intent has something to do with upping your post count... well... really I have to ask, what does it do for you?
The only good reason not to have a system like this, is that some of the mods or admins might decide it takes too much effort; But in reality, how much more effort would this take than deleting 50 some odd posts from one rumor thread as the Rumor Mill is now? The moderators of the Rumor Mill are gluttons for pain and waste of time because they don't do things to make the situation better. This has been an issue for years upon years, yet no one has bothered to do anything about it. Why? I've offered a reasonable and sensible solution to the problem. The forum would be kept pleasing to the eye, they would become well organized, and overall it'd save time.
What if someone wants to discuss the new U/G archetype after the set comes out? They can't make a thread in NCD about it.
Xenphire, for the great majority of the posts moderated in the rumor mill, we don't warn people.
That is at least how me and R_E have always done it.
We just delete.
That system sounds like a good idea, but the fact is, why fix what isn't broken?
I have no problem with how the rumor mill is now.
We have changed the way WoTC previews will be posted, which is a start, but that is good for now, IMO.
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Clearly, if you have people making threads like this regarding the topic of post count and operation of the Rumor Mill, the Rumor Mill obviously is not fine as-is.
What if someone wants to discuss the new U/G archetype after the set comes out? They can't make a thread in NCD about it.
Theres a section of the MTGS forums, if you scroll halfway down, that has general discussion about the card game itself and competetive Magic. Why do people need to talk about competetive Magic in the rumor mill after the set has come out?
On a similar note, as we have various staff members posting on different sides of the debate here, it would seem to me that the staff has no actual decision regarding what should be done with postcounts.
If a staff discussion about this issue does not exist yet, I strongly urge the staff to do so. This is an important issue, that has caught the attention of many of the active and concerned posters on MTGSalvation. It needs to be addressed in the best, and fastest, way possible.
This topic was created for the wrong reason.
There isn't so much trouble with spam in the rumor mill.
It is a trouble with posts that clog threads.
We have to delete posts that add nothing, so people won't have to wade through 50 garbage posts to find a good one.
It keeps the discussion good, and prevents it from turning sour.
I am very much against making posts not count in the rumor mill.
Would that get rid of post counts we already had in that thread. Because my post count would go down like 6. Seriously i spend most of my time in the casual and art area.
Personaly I think posts counts should not be shown next to your name, but in your profile only. Because I like to check to see what my post per day count is every once and a while but I think it would discourage people doing mass posting just to increase there post count. cough*Mr.Myxntxilswhateverhisnameis*cough.
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Theres a section of the MTGS forums, if you scroll halfway down, that has general discussion about the card game itself and competetive Magic. Why do people need to talk about competetive Magic in the rumor mill after the set has come out?
But it would be confusing to have multiple formats being discussed in the same forum, no?
But it would be confusing to have multiple formats being discussed in the same forum, no?
...as opposed to, y'know, multiple formats being discussed in New Card Discussion?
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
...as opposed to, y'know, multiple formats being discussed in New Card Discussion?
I don't need none of your fancy-pants logic okay
But seriously, the competitive formats are for Serious Discussion and NCD isn't, it's more for brainstorming, etc. Having multiple formats in the Serious Discussion formats would confuse people methinks.
But seriously, the competitive formats are for Serious Discussion and NCD isn't, it's more for brainstorming, etc. Having multiple formats in the Serious Discussion formats would confuse people methinks.
Personally, I don't think there's much discussion at all going on in New Card Discussion.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
People are free to discuss new cards in the format forums. If it's part of a competitive deck, then it belongs in those threads; if it's general discussion about the card's place in the new format, those can go in the main forum for that format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcobweb I don't need none of your fancy-pants logic okay
But seriously, the competitive formats are for Serious Discussion and NCD isn't, it's more for brainstorming, etc. Having multiple formats in the Serious Discussion formats would confuse people methinks.
Personally, I don't think there's much discussion at all going on in New Card Discussion. What exactly is the New Card Discussion sub-forum?
Isn't it the place where players (people) discuss cards, combos, (this card has) synergy (with card X), etc?
And the Format sub-forums are for deck-ratings and Format (X) discussions, e.g. "Oh, Standard (T2) looks good with those Wandering Ones and Umezawa's Jitte in Standard."?
Please post back, somebody.
There is quite a lot of debate about cards in N.C.D., but I would not say that I know that as a fact, though.
But it would be confusing to have multiple formats being discussed in the same forum, no?
Why exactly couldn't discussion about a card's effect or ability in say, T2, not be kept in T2's general forum, while discussion about that card in T1 could be kept in... oh... the T1 general forum? Theres general forums for every format. Why do we need to discuss strategy and deck ideas in the Rumor Mill? Theres a place to do it, but believe it or not, the Rumor Mill really isn't for competetive discussion.
Quote from Magic Mage »
What exactly is the New Card Discussion sub-forum?
Isn't it the place where players (people) discuss cards, combos, (this card has) synergy (with card X), etc?
And the Format sub-forums are for deck-ratings and Format (X) discussions, e.g. "Oh, Standard (T2) looks good with those Wandering Ones and Umezawa's Jitte in Standard."?
Please post back, somebody.
There is quite a lot of debate about cards in N.C.D., but I would not say that I know that as a fact, though.
People tend to post ideas for rumored or confirmed cards for whatever rumor season in there. The forum itself, is really, quite un-needed when theres forums outside the Rumor Mill much better suited for competetive or playing discussion. As a matter of fact, they are the competetive forums. Theres really no purpose in having a New Card Discussion forum used to talk strategy in the Rumor Mill of all places when theres already strategy forums on here that you can use for that.
Well, considering that Seds is an admin now and he usually doesn't shake what he believes to be true (or so I've seen from his rumor mill moderating sometimes in the past) I'd say things are going to remain the same as they are.
That sounds like a full-time job to delete dumb posts one-by-one in the Mill. What defines a good Mill post anyway? I can't imagine a quality post in an R_E thread. Either it's spam, doesn't add anything, or should be in New Card Discussion (or all 3).
If post counts matter to people so much that they feel they have to ask "OMG WHAT NOW MY NUMBER WON'T GO UP FROM MY QUALITY POSTS!??!?!111212?!" then that's all the more reason and proof that post counts should be turned off. Regardless that it is a simple, idiotic number under someone's avatar, people will STILL act stupid because of it. If it wasn't for post count this thread wouldn't have even been generated. Post count does NOTHING good for the community, absolutely nothing. It doesn't provide incentive to post besides spam to up the meaningless number that people for some reason act like they would just die without.
Let's get a fact straight: The rumor mill always has and always will be a spam generator. Every single post for the most part past the original post is almost always people saying the exact same thing over and over, and then some may, just may add another line because they don't want their post deleted and to lose that precious count from that post. It's been like this clear since the long-gone days of MTGnews' popularity and was a problem back then as well that people complained about. Why is it no one has the balls to just turn off the god damn post count?
(Also known as Xenphire)
People post quality posts in Speak Your Mind - even with post counts not attributing here, we still do.
See the correlation?
Quality posts will remain with or without postcount. It's the crappy ones we're hoping to deter.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Which is exactly why I've proposed this system for three years:
1. Thread creation is turned off for the Rumor Mill index and the Card Discussion sub-forum
2. New cards and rumors are to be sent to the Rumor Mill moderators, Global mods, or Admins via PM. This way, we don't get all the repeat threads we get during rumor seasons, and they can pick out the fakes themselves instead of letting a discussion about how fake a card is go on for 5 pages, wasting our time.
3. Said mods or admins will post rumors they believe to be post-worthy, but in locked threads, so that the threads are just for viewing.
4. Following the above step, they will make a discussion thread for this in the New Card Discussion forum, which should be named New Card & Rumor Discussion. The ability to make threads in here is disabled so to keep discussion about a certain card to one thread rather than five, though posting in threads is still available.
5. The Rumor Mill and the New Card Discussion would be locked for thread creation to avoid spam over the same topics, since rumors are being filtered through the staff. This will avoid cluttering the Rumor Mill index and keep it very clean, while spam and the current state can be contained in the subforum, where the moderators need to lighten up.
6. The Future Card Speculation forum can be used for everything else, as it generally is.
7. Assuming the post counts are not off forumwide, post counts would be off here and the moderators would stop deleting and warning people for spam, as discussion on a new card CREATES THIS SPAM. You can not go around giving people Spam warnings and deleting posts just because a every other post in the thread says the EXACT SAME THING but with two more words. It is unfair to the people whose post you've deleted, because quite honestly, when you have a rumor, what tends to be left to say after the first 10 posts? It's ridiculous; It creates an unpleasent and uptight atmosphere for the forum. You say that you delete and warn so people don't have to scroll through the same replies over and over, yet we still do. We have to go through 10 pages of it per rumored card. 1 word post vs. 5 word post, both say the same thing. Hmmm...
The only good reason not to have a system like this, is that some of the mods or admins might decide it takes too much effort; But in reality, how much more effort would this take than deleting 50 some odd posts from one rumor thread as the Rumor Mill is now? The moderators of the Rumor Mill are gluttons for pain and waste of time because they don't do things to make the situation better. This has been an issue for years upon years, yet no one has bothered to do anything about it. Why? I've offered a reasonable and sensible solution to the problem. The forum would be kept pleasing to the eye, they would become well organized, and overall it'd save time.
(Also known as Xenphire)
I wonder that question now too.
Is post count really that important to you?
Personally, I think most of my posts (I hope! :)) are of decent quality. But I don't mind if none of my posts pile up into 1.5K+ of a number that's under my avatar.
Some say post counts can be used to find good posters in a forum, but that's not true; for the almost 12 months I've been here I have noticed that there are a lot quality posters with much, much less posts than people whose posts more often than not contain nothing significant. If your intent is to find your place in this community and look for the good people, then just simply hang around; interact. By the end of the first month I think you'll already have a good idea on who's nice to talk to.
But, if your intent has something to do with upping your post count... well... really I have to ask, what does it do for you?
What if someone wants to discuss the new U/G archetype after the set comes out? They can't make a thread in NCD about it.
They have two options:
A) Discuss the card in the context of being in a new UG Archetype in that card's thread.
B) Make a new topic under Speculation (which, it obviously is in this case) and discuss there.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Those discussions are supposed to be in their respective format forums.
That is at least how me and R_E have always done it.
We just delete.
That system sounds like a good idea, but the fact is, why fix what isn't broken?
I have no problem with how the rumor mill is now.
We have changed the way WoTC previews will be posted, which is a start, but that is good for now, IMO.
Twitter
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Theres a section of the MTGS forums, if you scroll halfway down, that has general discussion about the card game itself and competetive Magic. Why do people need to talk about competetive Magic in the rumor mill after the set has come out?
(Also known as Xenphire)
If a staff discussion about this issue does not exist yet, I strongly urge the staff to do so. This is an important issue, that has caught the attention of many of the active and concerned posters on MTGSalvation. It needs to be addressed in the best, and fastest, way possible.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Would that get rid of post counts we already had in that thread. Because my post count would go down like 6. Seriously i spend most of my time in the casual and art area.
Personaly I think posts counts should not be shown next to your name, but in your profile only. Because I like to check to see what my post per day count is every once and a while but I think it would discourage people doing mass posting just to increase there post count. cough*Mr.Myxntxilswhateverhisnameis*cough.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
But it would be confusing to have multiple formats being discussed in the same forum, no?
...as opposed to, y'know, multiple formats being discussed in New Card Discussion?
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
I don't need none of your fancy-pants logic okay
But seriously, the competitive formats are for Serious Discussion and NCD isn't, it's more for brainstorming, etc. Having multiple formats in the Serious Discussion formats would confuse people methinks.
Personally, I don't think there's much discussion at all going on in New Card Discussion.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcobweb
I don't need none of your fancy-pants logic okay
But seriously, the competitive formats are for Serious Discussion and NCD isn't, it's more for brainstorming, etc. Having multiple formats in the Serious Discussion formats would confuse people methinks.
Personally, I don't think there's much discussion at all going on in New Card Discussion.
What exactly is the New Card Discussion sub-forum?
Isn't it the place where players (people) discuss cards, combos, (this card has) synergy (with card X), etc?
And the Format sub-forums are for deck-ratings and Format (X) discussions, e.g. "Oh, Standard (T2) looks good with those Wandering Ones and Umezawa's Jitte in Standard."?
Please post back, somebody.
There is quite a lot of debate about cards in N.C.D., but I would not say that I know that as a fact, though.
Why exactly couldn't discussion about a card's effect or ability in say, T2, not be kept in T2's general forum, while discussion about that card in T1 could be kept in... oh... the T1 general forum? Theres general forums for every format. Why do we need to discuss strategy and deck ideas in the Rumor Mill? Theres a place to do it, but believe it or not, the Rumor Mill really isn't for competetive discussion.
People tend to post ideas for rumored or confirmed cards for whatever rumor season in there. The forum itself, is really, quite un-needed when theres forums outside the Rumor Mill much better suited for competetive or playing discussion. As a matter of fact, they are the competetive forums. Theres really no purpose in having a New Card Discussion forum used to talk strategy in the Rumor Mill of all places when theres already strategy forums on here that you can use for that.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Afterall, we haven't even been told whether or not the staff plan to find a course of action regarding this issue.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
(Also known as Xenphire)