I think that Mikey is too heavy handed, which is not what the site needs.
And in a statement that is sure to draw ire and controversy, I have observed that mikeyg is biased towards people in Gaymers, which casts doubt upon his ability as a moderator, let alone as an admin. I agree that Mikey is charismatic, but, that in and of itself isn't enough. Sneaky was charismatic too, but also had a tendency to let people that he liked do whatever they wanted(figuring out how KCW stuck around for so long isn't exactly a great mystery). An admin has to be capable of complete objectivity, as his loyalty must be to the community as an entirety, not to any individual users. I never felt that sneaky portrayed this, nor has Mikey that I have seen.
You have now hit upon a crippling tension in personality requirements for the new administrator. This person now has to be both completely objective (or very nearly so) and still be in touch with the community enough to be the public's go-to guy when it comes to interacting with the users.
I'm beginning to think that adding another administrator would require too much of the person elected. Perhaps we should rethink the Global Moderator position instead, and fill those slots with folks who have these different idyllic traits: a socialite, someone whom everyone likes and feels comfortable approaching; an enforcer, one who remains objective and upholds the rules throughout the forum regardless of the offender*; a visionary, a person who has plans for the forum and the charisma to engage others in reform.
I think there are already several people on the staff capable of filling each role. The problem would be determining if they are willing to perform these tasks.
What do others think of this idea?
*For balance, I think there should be at least two enforcers, if not 2+ of each role.
What if I tell you I have a canidate who'se been an admin elsewhere for several years. I can also tell you that having this particular person as admin would probably calm a lot of the people who come to the SYM and complain regularly.
I'll give you a hint, his name starts with N and rhymes with ICK. Around here, he's more commonly known as CYAN.
It's very hard to not think there's a motivation to Cyan's continued posts of how everything on this site is completely messed up when you see something like this.
I mean, attacking someone because they don't like to personally swear?
Admin experience elsewhere? Out of the 30 forums that MTGNews even has, less then half (12) have posts in the last 24 hours. The Standard Competitive forum has 2 threads that have received posts in the last 24 hours (at the time of this post).
If MTGNews was really ran that much better, then wouldn't he already be admining a major site, because this site was that bad?
A third admin can help narrow discussion faster and be able to set up a system that nothing can be changed unless 2 of 3 agree. But The re-evaluation of the positions of the current staff isn't a bad idea as well.
@Feuerdrache: No, it is not that much to ask of one person. It's possible that you think so, but that is only because so many of the Admins of this site have been ill-equipped for the job. In reality, these are the traits that an Admin should always exhibit. Seds could easily be an ideal admin, if he had more time(or possibly willingness, I'm not sure which it is honestly) to dedicate to the job. Goblinboy perfectly exemplified the necessary criteria. Everyone else has simply fallen short.
@Kashmyr: Please, just quit while people have some scrap of respect left for you. If you can't be bothered to read the entire thread, then commenting on given statements by me only makes you look foolish when those statements have already been explained. If it was such a ludicrous concept, more people on here would have called me on it. But the majority of these posters, probably including some that disagree with me on the whole, know exactly what I am referring to.
@Kashmyr: Please, just quit while people have some scrap of respect left for you.
I promise, I will not lie awake at night worrying about having your respect, especially since you have a very large history of talking out of both sides of your mouth whenever it best suited your agenda (which is, you getting some sort of perceived "power").
@Feuerdrache: No, it is not that much to ask of one person. It's possible that you think so, but that is only because so many of the Admins of this site have been ill-equipped for the job. In reality, these are the traits that an Admin should always exhibit. Seds could easily be an ideal admin, if he had more time(or possibly willingness, I'm not sure which it is honestly) to dedicate to the job. Goblinboy perfectly exemplified the necessary criteria. Everyone else has simply fallen short.
That's probably because the perfect candidate may not even have an account registered on the forums yet. People who have the conviction to dedicate enough of their time to running a forum this size and who also display the characteristics of the ideal administrator are nigh impossible to find, and only come along very rarely.
The willingness to stay in the position for a prolonged term is also an important trait for the perfect admin to have. "Perfect," of course, refers to an ideal which will never be obtained. Goblinboy was a fantastic admin, but the work made him a recluse at the end of his term.
But let us cease speaking in abstract principles. Who do you think would make a good administrator, Cyan?
A third admin won't solve all the problems, and I think everyone knows that. Whoever is chosen won't be popular with everyone, because there's always someone who will complain, whether or not the complaint is legitimate. Asking current admins to step down isn't the solution, either-
The solution lies within all of us, here. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Complaining without giving viable ways to fix that which bothers you is nothing more than complaining- it serves no purpose other than stress relief and will probably make more people mad than it pacifies.
So, be part of the solution. Speak up, in an intelligent and mature manner, and people will listen. Just saying that you don't like something isn't going to change it- you're still going to continue to not like it, and if you don't give suggestions on how to fix it, then why are you saying anything at all?
I think the "us and them" mentality is one of the problems this site is having. It's not about "us and them"; the main difference between a moderator and a regular user is the fact that the moderator has a LOT more work to do with the site. By saying this, I'm not downing those people who spend a lot of time doing good things for the site (WP leaders, all the great artists, the people who run the Mafia games, the regular games, and so forth) but praising them- people do care, here.
I personally agree with the idea of another admin, because having three would help the burden of keeping order on the site while the other admins deal with real life. Two isn't enough- I hear it's a lot of work. Even a fourth would be useful, but they must be active enough to be an asset.
The flaming going on here in this thread should definitely stop- this isn't a schoolyard, and we should all be mature enough to throw off comments that others make toward us, especially if they aren't true.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Is it possible that the best solution is to have many admins, like some other forums (about 10).
-The workload is shared around to make it lighter
-decisions have more input
-there is less pressure for the admins to hold all this "charisma" which seems to be required for an admin here
These forums usually don't have a Global Mod group because there is no point; mods get promoted straight to admin. Because there is an admin collective instead of one, two or three, it means members who aren't as supreme as Goblinboy can be a good admin because they get help from the group.
Danny, there is much to say about the woes of bureaucracy. Simply put, complicating things needlessly is often entirely the wrong way to go about solving any potential problem.
The solution lies within all of us, here. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Complaining without giving viable ways to fix that which bothers you is nothing more than complaining- it serves no purpose other than stress relief and will probably make more people mad than it pacifies.
So, be part of the solution. Speak up, in an intelligent and mature manner, and people will listen. Just saying that you don't like something isn't going to change it- you're still going to continue to not like it, and if you don't give suggestions on how to fix it, then why are you saying anything at all?
To make it known that there's a problem. When you phone a company to register a complaint, do you have to tell them to fire so-and-so and hire Mr. Bigglesworth? It may sound nice but it doesn't mean much.
To make it known that there's a problem. When you phone a company to register a complaint, do you have to tell them to fire so-and-so and hire Mr. Bigglesworth? It may sound nice but it doesn't mean much.
Granted. But once the problem is established, then continuing in the same pattern results in exactly what AoK is talking about.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
In fairness, EinsteinMonkey has said very little on this thread, and I certainly wouldn't say that what he has said is at all whining or complaining, Honestly, it frustrates me when people have legitimate concerns and someone just comes along and says 'stop whining/complaining'. It is a cop-out.
First off, thanks, guys, for the comments and feedback. I had to type that over about four times
Quote from Einsteinmonkey »
To make it known that there's a problem. When you phone a company to register a complaint, do you have to tell them to fire so-and-so and hire Mr. Bigglesworth? It may sound nice but it doesn't mean much.
When I call a company or corporation to file a complaint about something, I go through normal channels. I don't curse the person who happens to be on the line, I don't blame them for all the ills I suffered because of whatever disservice was given me, and if I am not satisfied, I go above their heads. In fairness, that's a bit harder to accomplish here. Your analogy of "telling them to fire Mr. Bigglesworth" is EXACTLY what I see going on here- because of the actions of a few you wish to toss out the many. (Note that the "you" refers to those who feel that a drastic change in leadership is in order, not any user in particular.)
This thread originally started off mostly on the right foot- loran16 stated his concerns without managing to flame anyone. There's nothing wrong with that- if you're dissatisfied, there's only one way to let the person you are dissatisfied with know- TELL them. Getting emotional, insulting, and generally immature about it won't accomplish anything other than your concerns being thrown out the window as nothing more than childish whining. As a mother of three, my experience with whiners is rather extensive...and ignoring them tends to make them be quiet, or rephrase their problem in such a way as to make it understood. Now, I'm not implying that everyone here does this. far from it. I'm not even singling anyone out. I'm dead certain, though, that each and every one of you can think of someone in the past or present who has reacted in this way, and you know what I say is truth. Personal attacks upon moderators and ex-moderators don't do a whole lot of good, either- communication is the key, here.
Any of you who have frquented the forums I moderate should know that I am open to discussion at any time, regardless of what it's about. If I made you mad, tell me why. It could get fixed. If you hate my guts, rant away. Just tell me why. I hear a whole lot of things regarding different issues, mainly unfairness on the part of one mod or another, but very little seems to be getting done.
There is a problem, and as I have said, it lies in communication. Both moderators and regular users need to remember this, because proper communication could have saved us the loss of the mods we've had leave the staff in the past few days/weeks.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
When I call a company or corporation to file a complaint about something, I go through normal channels. I don't curse the person who happens to be on the line, I don't blame them for all the ills I suffered because of whatever disservice was given me, and if I am not satisfied, I go above their heads. In fairness, that's a bit harder to accomplish here. Your analogy of "telling them to fire Mr. Bigglesworth" is EXACTLY what I see going on here- because of the actions of a few you wish to toss out the many. (Note that the "you" refers to those who feel that a drastic change in leadership is in order, not any user in particular.)
That's...not quite on the same point.
Anyhow, you do know that complaining does not inherently entail whining, right?
It's very hard to not think there's a motivation to Cyan's continued posts of how everything on this site is completely messed up when you see something like this.
Yeah... you saw right through him. Cyan is pointing out the problems with various staff members because he secretly thinks somehow he'll actually get offered the admin job :rolleyes:.
Admin experience elsewhere? Out of the 30 forums that MTGNews even has, less then half (12) have posts in the last 24 hours. The Standard Competitive forum has 2 threads that have received posts in the last 24 hours (at the time of this post).
If MTGNews was really ran that much better, then wouldn't he already be admining a major site, because this site was that bad?
1: I never said that 'news was better ran. Don't put words in my mouth.
2: Your argument doesn't hold weight at all. Do people come to salvation because it's got a great staff? Hell no! They come here for the rumor mill and the community. Nobody ever joins 'sally because they think Binary is an excellent global.
Same holds true for news. Nobody is going to go there and say "why the mods and admins are great, I'll stay." They're going to go to news and say "wow... this site's dead. Time to move on"
3: You didn't even attempt to refute my argument. Cyan still has more admin experience than all the mods combined. I'd not pick him in Lesurgo's position because too many of the moderators don't like him (bad for staff unity)... however he's definitely the most qualified person here.
And yes to whoever said so, Ethan (Senori) would have been a good choice for admin.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
2: Your argument doesn't hold weight at all. Do people come to salvation because it's got a great staff? Hell no! They come here for the rumor mill and the community. Nobody ever joins 'sally because they think Binary is an excellent global.
Is that why they join? Ever think of why they stay?
Salvation is kept strong because we don't tolerate pages of spam. This keeps it from looking like the wizards message boards. The staff weeds out petty trolls and flamers, this helps the community to flourish without degrading into some second rate remake of Mad Max.
Is that why they join? Ever think of why they stay?
Salvation is kept strong because we don't tolerate pages of spam. This keeps it from looking like the wizards message boards. The staff weeds out petty trolls and flamers, this helps the community to flourish without degrading into some second rate remake of Mad Max.
But that isn't a quality of the Staff; that's a quality of the moderation regime (in the positive sense, mind). Any Staff enforcing these rules could come to pretty much the same result.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
But that isn't a quality of the Staff; that's a quality of the moderation regime (in the positive sense, mind). Any Staff enforcing these rules could come to pretty much the same result.
Hmm. Granted, but only so long as the rules remain intact. But the crux of this comes back to PJ in a bizzare way. I personally feel that the site is better off without his presence, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most of the people who claim disatisfaction with the current staff is unhappy with the banning of PJ.
Anyhow, you do know that complaining does not inherently entail whining, right?
I sure do. I also know that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Letting yourslef be heard by filling your posts full of "**** you" and "this mod can eat **** and die" qualify as whining to me....while a post that says "I have a problem with ~, and this is why..." are definitely the RIGHT way.
My analogy may have not been perfect, but the basic truth still remains- if you're unhappy with the actions of one person, go above his or her head. Jumping straight to the top or demanding so-and-so's resignation solves nothing.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Hmm. Granted, but only so long as the rules remain intact. But the crux of this comes back to PJ in a bizzare way. I personally feel that the site is better off without his presence, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most of the people who claim disatisfaction with the current staff is unhappy with the banning of PJ.
Shah, the main reason i think it seems that way is because of HOW it was handled. I dont think most people disagree he would have been banned, and probably would have deserved it. But for me it was HOW his banning was handled, it's almost like saying the ends justify the means.
It was decided that he was a harmful person to the community and hence his actions were seemingly harder moderated then other people. That lack of equal treatment is what bothered me, although i believe that if given time he would have earned the banning all by himself anyway. It doesnt solve the fact that BY letting him earn it in his own time there would have been less drama and more chances to point at LEGITIMATE pictures of him breaking the rules rather then 2-4 legitimate ones, and 2-4 ones where it was down to mod choice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
[FONT=Georgia]I sure do. I also know that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Letting yourslef be heard by filling your posts full of "**** you" and "this mod can eat **** and die" qualify as whining to me....while a post that says "I have a problem with ~, and this is why..." are definitely the RIGHT way.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia]My analogy may have not been perfect, but the basic truth still remains- if you're unhappy with the actions of one person, go above his or her head. Jumping straight to the top or demanding so-and-so's resignation solves nothing.[/FONT]
I was saying it was off because it wasn't on the same topic we were talking about.
Isn't going above someone's head here the same as jumping straight to the top?
I agree with the rest of the users in saying that we need a third administrator. This isn't a knock on Lesurgo or Seds, but it is almost impossible to be truly fair when you only have two people in charge. A third brings new ideas, and you have to convince at least one other person of your side AS WELL AS showing why the third person doesn't have the right idea. Right now, I think Seds and Lesurgo probably have to agree on any decision before implementing it, which is a bad idea.
There's also the fact that a third administrator lessens the workload on all of them, which lessens stress, which means the place will be happier because there will be less chance of snappy words.
As for candidates for the position, I have no idea who could do it. I'm also of the opinion that bringing in outside help, someone not already on the mod team, is a bad idea. For anyone that doesn't already have moderator experience, they'd be shoved into a lot of work really quickly and have to learn everything on the fly. That was one of my problems; I went into Forum Games, didn't know the precise rules, made a mistake that caused a lot of drama. We need someone that knows what they're doing, what they're getting into, the nuances of each forum.
As for people who have moderator experience from elsewhere... We'd need someone that users look up to, that knows what they're doing, that knows how to handle people in an appropriate manner, that can talk with people kindly. We need a person that can stick to their decisions and not be swayed by popular opinion when their decision works in the LONG RUN. We've had a lot of complaints by users about things that are bad in the short term but are better in the long run, and we need a person that has the foresight to know when to stay steady when the forum will be helped by the decisions, regardless of if the decision is popular.
On the flipside, we also need someone who is going to listen to the users and change things that need to be changed, who listens to the users and knows when to change their stance. A person who can agree with other people after sufficient evidence has been given.
Unfortunately, I don't know anyone on the site, moderator or not, that can do all of it. Then again, I'm outlining the perfect admin. I'm having trouble thinking of a person that's around enough, good enough with all the cliques on our site, and knows what they're doing.
You have now hit upon a crippling tension in personality requirements for the new administrator. This person now has to be both completely objective (or very nearly so) and still be in touch with the community enough to be the public's go-to guy when it comes to interacting with the users.
I'm beginning to think that adding another administrator would require too much of the person elected. Perhaps we should rethink the Global Moderator position instead, and fill those slots with folks who have these different idyllic traits: a socialite, someone whom everyone likes and feels comfortable approaching; an enforcer, one who remains objective and upholds the rules throughout the forum regardless of the offender*; a visionary, a person who has plans for the forum and the charisma to engage others in reform.
I think there are already several people on the staff capable of filling each role. The problem would be determining if they are willing to perform these tasks.
What do others think of this idea?
*For balance, I think there should be at least two enforcers, if not 2+ of each role.
It's very hard to not think there's a motivation to Cyan's continued posts of how everything on this site is completely messed up when you see something like this.
I mean, attacking someone because they don't like to personally swear?
Admin experience elsewhere? Out of the 30 forums that MTGNews even has, less then half (12) have posts in the last 24 hours. The Standard Competitive forum has 2 threads that have received posts in the last 24 hours (at the time of this post).
If MTGNews was really ran that much better, then wouldn't he already be admining a major site, because this site was that bad?
Northern Ohio Gamers Forums
ONLY if the duct tape doesn't hold them down in the chair correctly.
@Kashmyr: Please, just quit while people have some scrap of respect left for you. If you can't be bothered to read the entire thread, then commenting on given statements by me only makes you look foolish when those statements have already been explained. If it was such a ludicrous concept, more people on here would have called me on it. But the majority of these posters, probably including some that disagree with me on the whole, know exactly what I am referring to.
I promise, I will not lie awake at night worrying about having your respect, especially since you have a very large history of talking out of both sides of your mouth whenever it best suited your agenda (which is, you getting some sort of perceived "power").
Northern Ohio Gamers Forums
That's probably because the perfect candidate may not even have an account registered on the forums yet. People who have the conviction to dedicate enough of their time to running a forum this size and who also display the characteristics of the ideal administrator are nigh impossible to find, and only come along very rarely.
The willingness to stay in the position for a prolonged term is also an important trait for the perfect admin to have. "Perfect," of course, refers to an ideal which will never be obtained. Goblinboy was a fantastic admin, but the work made him a recluse at the end of his term.
But let us cease speaking in abstract principles. Who do you think would make a good administrator, Cyan?
The solution lies within all of us, here. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Complaining without giving viable ways to fix that which bothers you is nothing more than complaining- it serves no purpose other than stress relief and will probably make more people mad than it pacifies.
So, be part of the solution. Speak up, in an intelligent and mature manner, and people will listen. Just saying that you don't like something isn't going to change it- you're still going to continue to not like it, and if you don't give suggestions on how to fix it, then why are you saying anything at all?
I think the "us and them" mentality is one of the problems this site is having. It's not about "us and them"; the main difference between a moderator and a regular user is the fact that the moderator has a LOT more work to do with the site. By saying this, I'm not downing those people who spend a lot of time doing good things for the site (WP leaders, all the great artists, the people who run the Mafia games, the regular games, and so forth) but praising them- people do care, here.
I personally agree with the idea of another admin, because having three would help the burden of keeping order on the site while the other admins deal with real life. Two isn't enough- I hear it's a lot of work. Even a fourth would be useful, but they must be active enough to be an asset.
The flaming going on here in this thread should definitely stop- this isn't a schoolyard, and we should all be mature enough to throw off comments that others make toward us, especially if they aren't true.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Danny, there is much to say about the woes of bureaucracy. Simply put, complicating things needlessly is often entirely the wrong way to go about solving any potential problem.
To make it known that there's a problem. When you phone a company to register a complaint, do you have to tell them to fire so-and-so and hire Mr. Bigglesworth? It may sound nice but it doesn't mean much.
Granted. But once the problem is established, then continuing in the same pattern results in exactly what AoK is talking about.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
To make it known that there's a problem. When you phone a company to register a complaint, do you have to tell them to fire so-and-so and hire Mr. Bigglesworth? It may sound nice but it doesn't mean much.
When I call a company or corporation to file a complaint about something, I go through normal channels. I don't curse the person who happens to be on the line, I don't blame them for all the ills I suffered because of whatever disservice was given me, and if I am not satisfied, I go above their heads. In fairness, that's a bit harder to accomplish here. Your analogy of "telling them to fire Mr. Bigglesworth" is EXACTLY what I see going on here- because of the actions of a few you wish to toss out the many. (Note that the "you" refers to those who feel that a drastic change in leadership is in order, not any user in particular.)
This thread originally started off mostly on the right foot- loran16 stated his concerns without managing to flame anyone. There's nothing wrong with that- if you're dissatisfied, there's only one way to let the person you are dissatisfied with know- TELL them. Getting emotional, insulting, and generally immature about it won't accomplish anything other than your concerns being thrown out the window as nothing more than childish whining. As a mother of three, my experience with whiners is rather extensive...and ignoring them tends to make them be quiet, or rephrase their problem in such a way as to make it understood.
Now, I'm not implying that everyone here does this. far from it. I'm not even singling anyone out. I'm dead certain, though, that each and every one of you can think of someone in the past or present who has reacted in this way, and you know what I say is truth.
Personal attacks upon moderators and ex-moderators don't do a whole lot of good, either- communication is the key, here.
Any of you who have frquented the forums I moderate should know that I am open to discussion at any time, regardless of what it's about. If I made you mad, tell me why. It could get fixed. If you hate my guts, rant away. Just tell me why.
I hear a whole lot of things regarding different issues, mainly unfairness on the part of one mod or another, but very little seems to be getting done.
There is a problem, and as I have said, it lies in communication. Both moderators and regular users need to remember this, because proper communication could have saved us the loss of the mods we've had leave the staff in the past few days/weeks.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
That's...not quite on the same point.
Anyhow, you do know that complaining does not inherently entail whining, right?
Yeah... you saw right through him. Cyan is pointing out the problems with various staff members because he secretly thinks somehow he'll actually get offered the admin job :rolleyes:.
1: I never said that 'news was better ran. Don't put words in my mouth.
2: Your argument doesn't hold weight at all. Do people come to salvation because it's got a great staff? Hell no! They come here for the rumor mill and the community. Nobody ever joins 'sally because they think Binary is an excellent global.
Same holds true for news. Nobody is going to go there and say "why the mods and admins are great, I'll stay." They're going to go to news and say "wow... this site's dead. Time to move on"
3: You didn't even attempt to refute my argument. Cyan still has more admin experience than all the mods combined. I'd not pick him in Lesurgo's position because too many of the moderators don't like him (bad for staff unity)... however he's definitely the most qualified person here.
And yes to whoever said so, Ethan (Senori) would have been a good choice for admin.
Mafia Stats
Is that why they join? Ever think of why they stay?
Salvation is kept strong because we don't tolerate pages of spam. This keeps it from looking like the wizards message boards. The staff weeds out petty trolls and flamers, this helps the community to flourish without degrading into some second rate remake of Mad Max.
But that isn't a quality of the Staff; that's a quality of the moderation regime (in the positive sense, mind). Any Staff enforcing these rules could come to pretty much the same result.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Hmm. Granted, but only so long as the rules remain intact. But the crux of this comes back to PJ in a bizzare way. I personally feel that the site is better off without his presence, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most of the people who claim disatisfaction with the current staff is unhappy with the banning of PJ.
That's...not quite on the same point.
Anyhow, you do know that complaining does not inherently entail whining, right?
I sure do. I also know that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Letting yourslef be heard by filling your posts full of "**** you" and "this mod can eat **** and die" qualify as whining to me....while a post that says "I have a problem with ~, and this is why..." are definitely the RIGHT way.
My analogy may have not been perfect, but the basic truth still remains- if you're unhappy with the actions of one person, go above his or her head. Jumping straight to the top or demanding so-and-so's resignation solves nothing.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Shah, the main reason i think it seems that way is because of HOW it was handled. I dont think most people disagree he would have been banned, and probably would have deserved it. But for me it was HOW his banning was handled, it's almost like saying the ends justify the means.
It was decided that he was a harmful person to the community and hence his actions were seemingly harder moderated then other people. That lack of equal treatment is what bothered me, although i believe that if given time he would have earned the banning all by himself anyway. It doesnt solve the fact that BY letting him earn it in his own time there would have been less drama and more chances to point at LEGITIMATE pictures of him breaking the rules rather then 2-4 legitimate ones, and 2-4 ones where it was down to mod choice.
I was saying it was off because it wasn't on the same topic we were talking about.
Isn't going above someone's head here the same as jumping straight to the top?
There's also the fact that a third administrator lessens the workload on all of them, which lessens stress, which means the place will be happier because there will be less chance of snappy words.
As for candidates for the position, I have no idea who could do it. I'm also of the opinion that bringing in outside help, someone not already on the mod team, is a bad idea. For anyone that doesn't already have moderator experience, they'd be shoved into a lot of work really quickly and have to learn everything on the fly. That was one of my problems; I went into Forum Games, didn't know the precise rules, made a mistake that caused a lot of drama. We need someone that knows what they're doing, what they're getting into, the nuances of each forum.
As for people who have moderator experience from elsewhere... We'd need someone that users look up to, that knows what they're doing, that knows how to handle people in an appropriate manner, that can talk with people kindly. We need a person that can stick to their decisions and not be swayed by popular opinion when their decision works in the LONG RUN. We've had a lot of complaints by users about things that are bad in the short term but are better in the long run, and we need a person that has the foresight to know when to stay steady when the forum will be helped by the decisions, regardless of if the decision is popular.
On the flipside, we also need someone who is going to listen to the users and change things that need to be changed, who listens to the users and knows when to change their stance. A person who can agree with other people after sufficient evidence has been given.
Unfortunately, I don't know anyone on the site, moderator or not, that can do all of it. Then again, I'm outlining the perfect admin. I'm having trouble thinking of a person that's around enough, good enough with all the cliques on our site, and knows what they're doing.
My helpdesk should you need me.