Why is magic not accepted?
I have been asking myself this question for a very long time. Ever since i started playing back in 1999, magic has been regarded as weird and shunned upon where i live. I play sports competively (varsity soccer, basketball and baseball), and find myself having to hide the fact that i am also a competitive magic player because of the fear of being shunned upon by my friends, family and teammates. But i dont understand why being a magic player is necesarily bad.
I know that there are people out there who have been judged because of the fact that they are a magic player. Whether your family considers you weird, your girlfriend thinks your strange or your community (or school) judges you, i think many of you reading this can relate to this very aggrevating topic.
So i ask you, why can't magic be accepted as an every day hobby, and not known as a weird one. I'm tired of hiding the magic side of me and was wondering if anyone could leave some insight, thanks in advance.
I'm sorry mods if this is the wrong place for this, feel free to move it to whereever it is appropriate.
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lol i swear something like this comes up every 4 months. Not to say its a bad discussion point.
Heres my take. Yes they will think you wierd but it generally doesnt extend to shunning you. Otherwise you need new friends and family lol.
We also got a bad rep from the "D&D killings" of the 90's. Those helped alienate a lot of the tabletop gaming society from the rest. HOWEVER most fo the issues are in your mind generally... As long as you dont care what they think about you it wont matter if they think one of your hobbies is strange. I find normal college life with drinking as the norm for underage groups as being kinda strange(not to mention legally dumb). So i guess the point is as long as you enjoy it and dont get hung for it, its most likely not a big deal. As an aside mentioning it to people you just meet is a generally unwise idea.
Fatguy is right, alot of it is in your head, and once you come out and quit being afraid of what everyone will think of you for doing it, it will stop being such a big deal. Ive told both of my most recent girlfriends i enjoy amgic, and ive actually sometimes chose friday night magic over them, ive found if you play a game with them they accept it more, because they see it as something challenging for you. Girls, friends, and family will all respect you more if you can show them the difficulty of the game, and many of its intricacies.
The only reason I can think of is because when people see card games, they instantly think of one of two things if not both immediately: Pokémon or Yugioh, both of which are very childish games to ignorant people. And not to be offensive to any people on the forums, but whenever people walk into a card store and see people playing magic, they're not usually nice/good looking/friendly looking/etc. That may be just in the card shop I go to, but any time you go to a prerelease, people do look shady on average.
Other than that, I've never really thought of hiding the fact that I'm a magic player. Any grief I get for playing it is usually minimal or ignore-able. If it gets to the point of bothering/shunning, your friends need to grow some maturity.
U dont need to think why the people thinks i dont care if the people calls me freak os thing's like that only you need to have fun of all thing's of you do
I think a big part of it is that most people don't find gaming interesting. They don't see why anyone would play it for fun, much less competitively. And when most people don't understand something, they make fun of it.
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The thing I don't understand is why Poker has become such a mainstream game and is generally accepted, but a game like magic that is undoubtedly more skill intensive and less luck based is still considered to be for random nerds and social outcasts. For some reason people view Poker players as cool "sharks" throwing caution to the wind and playing a manly game, but magic players are viewed as dorks who are playing childish things like angels and dragons.
remember poker been around MUCH longer then most games and has always been the "cool" game to play. Even when your walking out piss broke after walking in with 3k in your hands.....
Its because of the people that are assosiated with the game of magic. It starts in about 4/5th grade when we're all playing pokemon/yugioh. Girls are fine with it, they probably play as well. But then some of the pack breaks off and agresses into other things. Sports, girls ect in about 7th-8th grade.
I played magi in 8th grade, after school in the play (our school puts on a play every year) and it was accepted. Popular kids and very liked kids played, because drama"" was the thing to do..i guess. But then some kids that i played with that summer had said they don't want to be in highschool and still playing a game with elves,dragons and goblins anymore. Then it was me a college friends and a few other close friends in playing the game still. after a year those kids that quit came to me and wanted to draft, and we did. They do occasionally. They don't care that I play.
ITs not accepted because of the people that are assosiated with it. Fat, Nerdy ugly pimple faced dorks. (no offence) But thats the steriotype that we receive. I mean, i consider myself good looking, i play varsity lacrosse, and im fairly popular in school. But thats without them knowing about my secret competitive MAgic life. Im sure if they found out i wouldn't live it down, espeacially with the opposite sex, but it would cool down eventually..
Also, i was at an mss last winter, up in another town about 80 minutes away from mine. I got done with, ho say the 4th round and there were some girls there, not bad looking howver in like, the 8th grade. And they didn't care whatsoever that we were all holding fistfulls of lotus blooms, dragonstorms and shocklands. It was funny, i thought. They took a picture of me with them and put it on theire computer (i really protested that, but eh oh well..) I guess it depends on how the people in your school look at it. I was really thrown back at the acceptance they had for the game. I guess nerdyness is inthe eye of the beholder.
I think part of the problem is, well, frankly, a lot of Magic players have a "You don't like it because you're not as smart as I am" mentality. I've seen that mentality in this thread repeatedly.
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Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people. Guns just make them move really, really fast.
What really makes me upset is when people repeatedly call it Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon despite being told the contrary. My friends and I don't make fun of their pastimes, why can't they accept ours? I mean with some people I havne't even spoken to them before but they radomly come over during our matches to make fun of us.
That's not exclusive to magic, though. It's a fairly good rule of thumb that anyone who wastes their time and energy making fun of something for no reason is not among humanity's brightest minds.
The point, I think, that people who scorn MTG are trying to make is that it's just that: a waste of time. Ultimately, the game does not have the abstract strategic depth of chess, the interpersonal tension of poker, or the mature and dignified presentation of either. It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but let's face it: elves and boggarts.
Making matters worse, the rules are excruciatingly intricate. I imagine that relatively few people actually learn to play the game correctly the first time around. Magic, as we all know, is not a game for people who have anything less than way too much time on their hands, especially not on anything approaching a serious level. This has two major effects: it encourages elitism among players (hardly an attractive trait), and it makes the game seem even more ridiculous to outsiders.
and the cards are often painfully expensive. And, as I have stated, the rewards are not perceived to be terribly great by most people who don't play - I imagine that the common idea of it is poker with elves - or worse, Pokemon with elves. So the question that they ask is: you devote uncounted hours of your time and a solid chunk of money to something as silly as this?
Don't get me wrong. I love the game. It's exterior, though, is not what we'd call the best for encouraging popular interest. Even as a player who pours a lot of time and money into it myself, I can definitely see where people are coming from when they laugh at MTG. There are more productive ways that we could spend our resources, make no mistake. Only a very small handful of fortunates ultimately profit from the game in a tangible way.
With that said, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Just something to keep in perspective. Don't be too defensive or paranoid - learn to laugh at yourself. It's all good.
Incidentally, Casual Chaos Rules - the most vocal opponent of the game with whom I've spoken is one of the most intelligent people I know. There's a level of intelligence and maturity beneath which and above which the game seems silly, and within which the rest of us are slinging cards. =D
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In the stark light of insanity, all things are shown in perfect clarity.
The fantasy genre is usually reqarded as something for weirdos/social outcasts. Sometimes it goes mainstream (e.g. Lord of the Rings movies), but that's true most of the time.
Now replace "fantasy genre" with "card games", and "Lord of the Rings movies" with "poker".
It's not because of lack of necessary skills or any such nonsense - people think Magic is silly and childish because it throws together two things people generally see as silly and childish.
Thanks again guys for the incredibly detailed replies. Now that i understand why it is considered childish or silly, how do i let people know that i play magic without ruining my reputation? Thanks again.
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Name a card game that was accepted? I don't know any. it's just the way society has shown and type of card game as "geeky". I just play because I like the strategy and tactics involved. I can't play chess because it's too confusing lol.
If someone makes fun of me playing magic and means it, I punch them.
Of course, I do the same thing if someone says I'm fat.
I don't mind that I play magic. Or that I have a bit of a gut. But what I can't stand, and will NEVER stand for is people thinking that they are better then me, for whatever reason. This goes for religion, race, hobbies, school, weight, looks, fashion sense...
I have my pride.
...
That said...consider this. If you and your friend were playing magic in a bar somewhere and someone walks up to you
Them: "What are you playing"
You: "We're playing Magic."
Them: "Magic, huh? I've heard of it before. So what's it all about?"
I can GUARANTEE that you have either responded with one of two things:
1. "It's really complicated."
2. "Well, me and Preston here are Planeswalkers, which are these REALLY powerful wizards who can travel to other worlds in the Multiverse..."
And what do you get? Response one makes you seem like a jerk, and then people take the impression they have of you and apply it to the game, and Response 2 just solidifies there opinion that you are a dork.
Give magic 20 years. If it's still around, it will be one of the most popular games in existance.
Wow. Magic lasting 30 years. That would be so weird...
You really want to know why? It's because it requires you to think. People don't like to think so frown upon it. Seriously. Similarly with chess and the likes. I don't really care what people think though, my friends call me a geek for playing it but I don't mind (mainly cause I am a little bit of a geek!).
Because sports just don't have any strategy to them. At all.
It's not accepted because magic cards are associated with the stereotypical image of a geek or nerd. Social conditioning through the media (which obviously has the strongest influence on the target audience of magic) creates an image of anyone who plays magic as some kind of socially deficient power-nerd with no friends and a veritable jungle of acne. It's not a fair stereotype, but it's there. *shrug*
Seriously the ages at which most people are bothered about other peoples pastimes is between 12 and 21, secondary school till the end of education (college or job training ect). Past this no-one really cares.
We where discussing this in the pub after our last gaming session before Christmas. Our gaming group covers magic, tabletop wargaming, PnP roleplay and LARP. We've all got careers, half of us are married, a quarter have kids and no-one in our group could think of anytime where it has come up amongst their friends and relatives and anyone given a damn.
The secret is not to make it the only thing in your life. Anyone who only has one interest will find it difficult to relate to other people as they have nothing else to talk about if the person they're talking too has no interest themselves.
For example last year I helped a conservation group manage some local woods at weekends.
Thank you, you are very wise. So my plan so far is just keep it a secret for now, and if anyone finds out then i shrug it off. I will keep all my other hobbies and won't let magic take over my life. Then when i hit college in a few years i won't keep it a secret and will let people judge me however they want. Thanks guys.
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The only real problem with Magic I've ever faced was because of the D&D problems in Cali of the 70s. People look at the 2 games as if they are the same or close enough to be the same, and think everyone who plays it is a fanatic.
It took my father and I almost 3 years to break this idea from alot of parents of kids who wanted to come to our store and play.
As for peers, if they don't accept your hobby, you can find better friends. seriously. Those kind of people are only friends of your as long as it suits them and if your ever seen as "different" or "weird" they don't want to be near you. I say be done with them and find true friends.
But the inherent problem is not the people we hang out with, at least in my case, it's the people who see me playing, walk over and begin harrassing me. How do you, short of giving into what they want, which is to get angry and lash out or move far away, solve that problem?
One thing that's stopped people from judging me for anything is a reputation i've crafted as an extreme sadist. The people who have nothing better to do are the ones who uually harass someone for playing magic, an they're generally cowards, so either spend an hour a day working out, or crack up in the middle of saving private ryan, and you'll probably be left alone in a big hurry. Granted, there may be a few people who persist, in which case challenging their reason for harassing you would probably be the best course.
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I have been asking myself this question for a very long time. Ever since i started playing back in 1999, magic has been regarded as weird and shunned upon where i live. I play sports competively (varsity soccer, basketball and baseball), and find myself having to hide the fact that i am also a competitive magic player because of the fear of being shunned upon by my friends, family and teammates. But i dont understand why being a magic player is necesarily bad.
I know that there are people out there who have been judged because of the fact that they are a magic player. Whether your family considers you weird, your girlfriend thinks your strange or your community (or school) judges you, i think many of you reading this can relate to this very aggrevating topic.
So i ask you, why can't magic be accepted as an every day hobby, and not known as a weird one. I'm tired of hiding the magic side of me and was wondering if anyone could leave some insight, thanks in advance.
I'm sorry mods if this is the wrong place for this, feel free to move it to whereever it is appropriate.
Credit given to this dude High~Light Studios
Check out my h/w list
Currently Playing
The Rock GB
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RGb BIG Mana GRB
RG Warriors GR
Heres my take. Yes they will think you wierd but it generally doesnt extend to shunning you. Otherwise you need new friends and family lol.
We also got a bad rep from the "D&D killings" of the 90's. Those helped alienate a lot of the tabletop gaming society from the rest. HOWEVER most fo the issues are in your mind generally... As long as you dont care what they think about you it wont matter if they think one of your hobbies is strange. I find normal college life with drinking as the norm for underage groups as being kinda strange(not to mention legally dumb). So i guess the point is as long as you enjoy it and dont get hung for it, its most likely not a big deal. As an aside mentioning it to people you just meet is a generally unwise idea.
Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
just my 2 cents
Other than that, I've never really thought of hiding the fact that I'm a magic player. Any grief I get for playing it is usually minimal or ignore-able. If it gets to the point of bothering/shunning, your friends need to grow some maturity.
Sig banner by Xyre.
My MTG Blog (inactive)
GDS1 & GDS2 entrant. Former Rules Advisor & casual-level TO. Semi-lapsed player in general.
Credit given to this dude High~Light Studios
Check out my h/w list
Currently Playing
The Rock GB
Doran Beats GBW
RGb BIG Mana GRB
RG Warriors GR
I played magi in 8th grade, after school in the play (our school puts on a play every year) and it was accepted. Popular kids and very liked kids played, because drama"" was the thing to do..i guess. But then some kids that i played with that summer had said they don't want to be in highschool and still playing a game with elves,dragons and goblins anymore. Then it was me a college friends and a few other close friends in playing the game still. after a year those kids that quit came to me and wanted to draft, and we did. They do occasionally. They don't care that I play.
ITs not accepted because of the people that are assosiated with it. Fat, Nerdy ugly pimple faced dorks. (no offence) But thats the steriotype that we receive. I mean, i consider myself good looking, i play varsity lacrosse, and im fairly popular in school. But thats without them knowing about my secret competitive MAgic life. Im sure if they found out i wouldn't live it down, espeacially with the opposite sex, but it would cool down eventually..
Also, i was at an mss last winter, up in another town about 80 minutes away from mine. I got done with, ho say the 4th round and there were some girls there, not bad looking howver in like, the 8th grade. And they didn't care whatsoever that we were all holding fistfulls of lotus blooms, dragonstorms and shocklands. It was funny, i thought. They took a picture of me with them and put it on theire computer (i really protested that, but eh oh well..) I guess it depends on how the people in your school look at it. I was really thrown back at the acceptance they had for the game. I guess nerdyness is inthe eye of the beholder.
*phew*
Trade thread!
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According to this study I should be deaf by now.
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It shouldn't be "dies"
It shouldn't be "is put into the graveyard from the battlefield"
It should be "is put into the graveyard from play"
Making matters worse, the rules are excruciatingly intricate. I imagine that relatively few people actually learn to play the game correctly the first time around. Magic, as we all know, is not a game for people who have anything less than way too much time on their hands, especially not on anything approaching a serious level. This has two major effects: it encourages elitism among players (hardly an attractive trait), and it makes the game seem even more ridiculous to outsiders.
and the cards are often painfully expensive. And, as I have stated, the rewards are not perceived to be terribly great by most people who don't play - I imagine that the common idea of it is poker with elves - or worse, Pokemon with elves. So the question that they ask is: you devote uncounted hours of your time and a solid chunk of money to something as silly as this?
Don't get me wrong. I love the game. It's exterior, though, is not what we'd call the best for encouraging popular interest. Even as a player who pours a lot of time and money into it myself, I can definitely see where people are coming from when they laugh at MTG. There are more productive ways that we could spend our resources, make no mistake. Only a very small handful of fortunates ultimately profit from the game in a tangible way.
With that said, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Just something to keep in perspective. Don't be too defensive or paranoid - learn to laugh at yourself. It's all good.
Incidentally, Casual Chaos Rules - the most vocal opponent of the game with whom I've spoken is one of the most intelligent people I know. There's a level of intelligence and maturity beneath which and above which the game seems silly, and within which the rest of us are slinging cards. =D
Now replace "fantasy genre" with "card games", and "Lord of the Rings movies" with "poker".
It's not because of lack of necessary skills or any such nonsense - people think Magic is silly and childish because it throws together two things people generally see as silly and childish.
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A lot of the time, I tell my friends it's a comprehensive combination of Poker and Chess with aesthetic elements, which is 100% true.
It's because it's a game like D&D and Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh. It's stereotyped.
Of course, I do the same thing if someone says I'm fat.
I don't mind that I play magic. Or that I have a bit of a gut. But what I can't stand, and will NEVER stand for is people thinking that they are better then me, for whatever reason. This goes for religion, race, hobbies, school, weight, looks, fashion sense...
I have my pride.
...
That said...consider this. If you and your friend were playing magic in a bar somewhere and someone walks up to you
Them: "What are you playing"
You: "We're playing Magic."
Them: "Magic, huh? I've heard of it before. So what's it all about?"
I can GUARANTEE that you have either responded with one of two things:
1. "It's really complicated."
2. "Well, me and Preston here are Planeswalkers, which are these REALLY powerful wizards who can travel to other worlds in the Multiverse..."
And what do you get? Response one makes you seem like a jerk, and then people take the impression they have of you and apply it to the game, and Response 2 just solidifies there opinion that you are a dork.
Give magic 20 years. If it's still around, it will be one of the most popular games in existance.
Wow. Magic lasting 30 years. That would be so weird...
Currently 62/265 cards.
Shoosh you child cartoon knock off... dont let them in on the secret
Yes i am the same guy who trades/sells on MOTL AND Wizards of the Coast and i trade on POJO.
Because sports just don't have any strategy to them. At all.
It's not accepted because magic cards are associated with the stereotypical image of a geek or nerd. Social conditioning through the media (which obviously has the strongest influence on the target audience of magic) creates an image of anyone who plays magic as some kind of socially deficient power-nerd with no friends and a veritable jungle of acne. It's not a fair stereotype, but it's there. *shrug*
Thank you, you are very wise. So my plan so far is just keep it a secret for now, and if anyone finds out then i shrug it off. I will keep all my other hobbies and won't let magic take over my life. Then when i hit college in a few years i won't keep it a secret and will let people judge me however they want. Thanks guys.
Credit given to this dude High~Light Studios
Check out my h/w list
Currently Playing
The Rock GB
Doran Beats GBW
RGb BIG Mana GRB
RG Warriors GR
It took my father and I almost 3 years to break this idea from alot of parents of kids who wanted to come to our store and play.
As for peers, if they don't accept your hobby, you can find better friends. seriously. Those kind of people are only friends of your as long as it suits them and if your ever seen as "different" or "weird" they don't want to be near you. I say be done with them and find true friends.
According to this study I should be deaf by now.
Banner made by: Spiderboy4 :o:o:o
It shouldn't be "dies"
It shouldn't be "is put into the graveyard from the battlefield"
It should be "is put into the graveyard from play"
I am petitioning for the removal of all other signature petitions. WoTC doesn't give a crap about them.
Get over yourself and sig this to join the cause.