Just tell them it's a great game for the strategy, fun, and community. When the French teacher asks what we did over the week, I don't mind answering that I won a magic tournament. Nobody really cares, some even think it's cool. I don't know how it would be with your more "sporty" friends, but I doubt they'd really care. I always notice that you try to hide it when I give you cards in the hallway. Your idea of not mentioning it but shrugging it off if it comes up sounds good. I wouldn't go to extra lengths to hide it, but you can if you want to.
MY experience has been not so much the game itself, but by how obsessed and entrenched one is in the game beyond everything else.
I have a friend who basically talks to me at every moment about Magic; he's nearing 40 yrs old and honestly...when someone at that age dedicates ALL their waking time to Magic or any hardcore game like that, I can understand why people would assume this pattern of thought.
Magic is no different than any other hobby; obsession that takes precedence over anything else is privvy to receive these sort of judgements.
Myself? I'm married and live with my wife in a nice appartment. I run my own business, have a good solid group of non-magic playing friends and am in excellent physical shape with an awesome personality.
I keep my magic hobby just that: a hobby. I purchase maybe $40 of cards every two weeks? Maybe even over a month. But I certainly do not dedicate all my time to the game nor talk about it 24/7 like a good majority of people do in this game.
That be all,
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Sometimes it is awkward for me as most of our teachers (even in highschool) ask us what we did over the weekend/week vacation, etc.
Example this past weekend (New Years) I made 110 dollars playing magic. I won FNM (for 20 store credit), Won a draft (another close to twenty), got second in a rare-pool draft (and picked some chase-rare. honestly do not remember what it was), and sold two of my Tarmogoyfs (of, at the time, eight, now six. no i didn't buy all of them, sheesh, i won them in drafts) to a friend for the generous price of 25$ each (50$). In all that amounts to about 100-110 dollars. I told that I made some money over the weekend. Naturally, they ask how, knowing I do not have a job (a few know I play M:tg). I just reply that it was in a few different tournaments, like poker/chess style thought-based games. The teacher's like pfft w/e but the kids kind of think it's cool, even if card games are weird. (my english teacher actually used to play and saw my M:tg pen once from some release event)
It's weird but if you don't say " itsh a card shtrateggy g-g-game that'sh v-very complicated to play, and itsh not pokemon, jeeshh" lol. and jsut put it like it's a thought-based game like poker/chess they normally are cool w/ it. especially if you mention you can occasionally make money off of it even though you play it for fun.
It really just has to do with most people do not think of it as a well-known or established "thing"
@QuincieMinnieMax: Take your sig/banner for example. Harry Potter. A popular book now a days, eh? It is in its own right a "geeky" subject matter, correct? But, it IS mainstream and therefore accepted (by most) to be "okay" or "normal" or whatever. It is one of hte most popular novels series in recent history I can think of and, again, is very popular even though it is based in the same "nerdy" concepts as D&D and M:tg, etc. Even Star Wars, now a days, is not seen as the geeky thing it used to be, provided you don't go to conventions and cosplay or w/e. Most people think (rather, know) I am a tad strange in some ways, but not in bad ways. They know I play videogames (but who doesn't, really), I *gasp* read!!! (shocking) Even WoW to me, does not seem to get much criticism, etc, from people so long as you look soically acceptable and bathe.
Just make it seem less geeky and relate it to popular things if possible. It helps.
I quite like saying a few of the following things:
"I cannot wait until i start getting money from winning tournements!"
"One major difference comparing Magic to other fantasy card games is that Magic is not based on a cartoon."
"Magic is a game that evolves around skill, subterfuge, Good, Evil, Fire, water and nature".
My only concern with the game, is that it has and is getting more and more complicated, for those learning how to play. I learned how to play in 1996. Back then it was reasonably simple. New players that started lets say, in Timespiral, see Epic, Bushido, Channel, Forecast, Transmute etc. and go, Hmmm....
There is a lot to take in now. I have taught quite a few people how to play, and even the concept of 'the stack' is a strange one to take for new players.
msun: Knives scoop ice cream.
Highroller: No they don't, knives don't scoop. Spoons scoop.
msun: Well, knives SHOULD scoop icecream.
Highroller: We have spoons that do it. Moreover, the shape of a knife that would scoop ice cream would make it horrible for performing the functions of a knife.
msun: Highroller, you bring up spoons as though they were the utensil used for scooping ice cream.
Its because it is a tool of The Devil! Satan! The Father of Lies! Ye Old Serpent! It suprises me how many people actually truly completely utterly and totally believe that. I still meet people who when they see me with the cards actually offer spiritual advise. Creepy.
And worse than being a tool of evil, it makes you a nerd too.
It's actually quite weird that here in Singapore or se-asia, ppl actually thinks magic or any tcg are a cool hobby. Most of the people I know plays or have played magic before and don't mind getting into it again. Never had any critisism or insults whatever, only "wows" and "cools". Even my lecturer plays magic!
Don't be discouraged, not everyone all over the world thinks magic are for nerds.
It's actually quite weird that here in Singapore or se-asia, ppl actually thinks magic or any tcg are a cool hobby. Most of the people I know plays or have played magic before and don't mind getting into it again. Never had any critisism or insults whatever, only "wows" and "cools". Even my lecturer plays magic!
Don't be discouraged, not everyone all over the world thinks magic are for nerds.
Sweet now to pack my stuff and move. Sounds like heaven. No more of, like that time I was at a bus stop and reaching into my pocket for a transpass and got a magic card instead. That woman looked at me like I was carrying a blood dripping knife. As if i would do that, such a cliche'.
1) People critisize and look down upon things they don't understand. Your "average" person would look at magic and see it as a waste of time and pointless, even if after learning it they may find they enjoy it.
2) CCG's have a very bad name for them as it is. Look at yugioh and pokemon and all the other horrible rip offs of magic. If people are good at one thing, unfortunately that one thing is stereotyping.
It's extremely common for people to make fun of or 'hate' what is not normal or socially accepted. A vast majority of people don't understand Magic, card games in general and most fantasy related items. I think a lot has to do with what we are comfortable with (which is generally what we know), how much people are willing to explore their imagination, how they were raised and their self-confidence.
There had to of been a time when Texas Hold 'Em was just some dumb poker game to most, but when they had the chance to see it in action and play the game, it became huge and everyone loves it... Perhaps there will be a day when the same happens with Magic... Until then, I will enjoy playing magic and not worry what others think of it or me.
P.S. you know what's crazy, some people have never even watched a single Star Wars movie, because "it's stupid" or "dorky"..
It's extremely common for people to make fun of or 'hate' what is not normal or socially accepted. A vast majority of people don't understand Magic, card games in general and most fantasy related items. I think a lot has to do with what we are comfortable with (which is generally what we know), how much people are willing to explore their imagination, how they were raised and their self-confidence.
There had to of been a time when Texas Hold 'Em was just some dumb poker game to most, but when they had the chance to see it in action and play the game, it became huge and everyone loves it... Perhaps there will be a day when the same happens with Magic... Until then, I will enjoy playing magic and not worry what others think of it or me.
P.S. you know what's crazy, some people have never even watched a single Star Wars movie, because "it's stupid" or "dorky"..
Perhaps not, Magic has been on ESPN more than once, and no one feels more or less excited about it after the showing (mostly because ESPN didn't do a good job of explaining it, plus it was on at like 3AM )
But seriously I work in an office and people come up to me on Mondays and ask if i played Magic over the weekend since I really just don't care what people think of me. Granted I am your average Magic player who just happens to be fat, but when I tell them I won say..a box, which is worth 80 bucks, they say sweet.
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I think the stigma most people have against magic is the same stigma that most people are expressing in this thread about Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh: that Magic is a childish game based on some weird fantasy land (or in the other cases, a cartoon show). For people who don't play either, I can easily see the dislike of the game.
There had to of been a time when Texas Hold 'Em was just some dumb poker game to most, but when they had the chance to see it in action and play the game, it became huge and everyone loves it... Perhaps there will be a day when the same happens with Magic... Until then, I will enjoy playing magic and not worry what others think of it or me.
Not likely. One of the big things that really hurts Magic in a general sense is that it's not elegant. At all.
Let me put it this way: How many rules are there to poker? Let's list the elements of it.
1) You start with a predefined deck. This deck never changes, and the literal value of objects within it never changes.
2) Two cards are dealt from this deck to each player. They bet on how good they think these cards are.
3) Three cards are dealt face up. Players bet on how good the cards they have are with the cards on the table.
4) One card is dealt face up. Players bet on how good the cards they have are with the cards on the table.
5) One card is dealt face up. Players bet on how good the cards they have are with the cards on the table.
6) Players reveal their cards; whoever has formed the best hand wins the money that was bet.
This flow is then repeated continuously. It is, in fact, a very simple process to learn and this constitutes an entire round of gameplay. In Magic, an entire round of gameplay would consist of, just for example, a player untapping his cards, a player triggering upkeep effects, a player drawing a card, a player playing main phase spells and abilities, a player engaging in combat, a player playing main phase spells and abilities, a player proceeding to end of turn and triggering end of turn effects, a player performing cleanup operations, a player ending their turn, and their opponent going through these same steps. Withing each step, there is a list of other steps, and I would go so far as to say that combat alone is more complex than the entirety of Poker.
Combine with the fact that Poker possesses a fair bit of depth in understanding probability and reading other players, and you can find a game that is relatively simple to pick up and has great room for growth. The only real learning curve to poker is remembering which hands beat which, and with a few small exceptions that's fairly easy (quick quiz! Which is higher, straight or flush? ;)). This makes poker a relatively easy game for individuals to pick up and play, and the fact that betting is ingrained in its very nature makes its value immediately apparent.
The problem, as someone said is that people associate magic with pokemon/yu-gi-oh...you name it.
I don't mind if someone knows i play magic, if they ask me about it i tell them, but im not like "LOOK AT ME, IM A MAGIC PLAYER" either.
The thing I don't understand is why Poker has become such a mainstream game and is generally accepted, but a game like magic that is undoubtedly more skill intensive and less luck based is still considered to be for random nerds and social outcasts.
Poker has a LOT of skill involved in reading your opponents, knowing when to bluff, and stuff like that. There is possibly more than Magic. You're right that there is also a lot of randomness, but it evens out over the course of a few games/tournaments. You could say the same thing about Magic too.
Quote from darjarri »
Also, i was at an mss last winter, up in another town about 80 minutes away from mine. I got done with, ho say the 4th round and there were some girls there, not bad looking howver in like, the 8th grade. And they didn't care whatsoever that we were all holding fistfulls of lotus blooms, dragonstorms and shocklands. It was funny, i thought. They took a picture of me with them and put it on theire computer (i really protested that, but eh oh well..) I guess it depends on how the people in your school look at it. I was really thrown back at the acceptance they had for the game. I guess nerdyness is inthe eye of the beholder.
I can't believe I'm going to confirm this story, but hahaha I remember that so well. Did they really end up taking your picture though?
It's hard for people to care about Magic because it involves so much knowledge to play competitively. You have to know all of the concepts involved (which is true in any hobby/activity), but along with that you need to understand how all the cards and rules work as well as which decks are good and which aren't. Imagine watching a sport and having to read every player to understand what they did. However, variety is a part of what makes Magic such a great game and keeps people playing it. Many of my friends have the attitude that they would play Magic, but they don't because of the time and expense involved. Others I know would play in fourth grade and then stop because they thought it was stupid to spend money on cards. Yes, some people will stereotype it as has been said enough on this thread, but others acknowledge it but just don't care enough to get into it. And there are plenty of more frivolous and/or expensive hobbies than Magic:rolleyes:.
Sweet now to pack my stuff and move. Sounds like heaven. No more of, like that time I was at a bus stop and reaching into my pocket for a transpass and got a magic card instead. That woman looked at me like I was carrying a blood dripping knife. As if i would do that, such a cliche'.
Ahh..sounds like most of this magic social problems come from canada/usa which I'm intending of going for further studies. Lol, sounds like ppl over there really view magic as some kind of taboo.
Something along these lines happened to me in public, if you could believe it. I was playing a 9th ed. booster draft with a bunch of my friends in a Hall of Heros, and this chick comes up to our table giggling and said "Hey dudes! What are you all playing?" or something, when we told her we were just playing magic, she replied "kewl, very kewl."
... I think it's just that people are just blatantly ignorant sometimes. I personally play magic for fun, to do something mentally stimulating when I hang out with my friends, and as an expression of my personal freedom. What is so spectacular about doing what everyone else is doing? Pick the activities you like, not the ones other tell you you should like...
I know a few years ago I was the judge for our local store and I was going through a divorce at the time. I have full-time custody of my daughter (at the time she was 5) and my ex lived less then 2 blocks from our store that I did FNM judging at. When we went for the next to final hearing she tried to say she hadn't picked up my daughter for visitation because I wasn't meeting her at the police station on the other side of town (about 10 mins away) after she had agreed to just pick her up on friday nights at the store. When the Judge heard that he asked me why. I told him that she had agreed to pick her up at the store less then 2 blocks from where she was living at the time because it was closer for her and more convinent for me. He asked why was it more convinent and I told him I volunteer to run the tournements for MTG on Friday nights at the store. He was like is that like Pokemon? So you are saying running a kids tournement is more important then allowing your ex visitation and just continued to chastise me for being in my mid-20s and playing a kids game. He completed ignored the fact that she was lying and was just attempting to cause an issue and told me that I should get my priorities in check and that it was time for me to grow up. Not everyone is understanding of gaming, my parents understand, my wife understands, heck even my kids understand and I'm currently trying to teach my 9 year old daughter the basics cause she wants to learn it.
It all depends on how other people are brought up, heck how many of your friends might be "secret" gamers too? You never know.
I associate Magic with making money for the most part. That's the way I explain it to people...I have fun playing a complicated and strategic card game, while making money (either winning packs at FNM, PTQs, PTs, buying/selling/trading) No one will look down on you for that.
At first, I was pretty "ashamed" of being a gamer, I would never tell some people unless they caught me in the act. But it's not too bad, i'm having fun. I just think some people let this engulf their lives, way past an appropriate age.
To add some much needed humor (or something like it) to this thread...
Why is Magic not accepted?
Partially because we feel the need to post about how we aren't accepted in an online forum, most likely.
[/sarcasm or whatever that was]
Here's a summary of a quick discussion we had at my lab bench during Hon Chem today.
-Is it bad that I don't have a job. Does it make me lazy (person 1)
-No. You don't have to work if you don't WANT to. And you don't need a job to make money (me)
-What, like stealing (1)
-No, like winning Magic tournaments (my ever-witty friend)
-Lol, Magic? Tournaments? What's Magic.(1)
-Basically, think of chess, but with added random elements and elements of choice, and not board pieces(me)
-That's cool, man. My uncle makes money just playing poker and stuff(1)
That was basically it. No harm done to anybody. And in that kid's eyes I'm not like a super-dork or anything, just a person who makes some money on the side doing something he likes to do for fun anyways.
Because magic is dorky. Make no mistake about it, MTG, other CCGs, Tabletop miniature games, RPGs these are all dorky. They are dorky because they borrow motifs from highly fantastical fictional narratives and literary traditions, which often, and in the case of MTG unmistakably associates itself with hyper dramatic grandeur and sense of self importance, which is conventionally seen IN CONTRAST to more materially(socially and arbitrarily) substantiable kinds of achievements. In other words, people like us, who actively engage in fantastic motifs have been seen as unrealistic and somewhat, to beg a better term, escapists in lieu of the mainstream social landscape and we make those we are not like us feel better, because they have a better grip and are supposedly better equipped to partake in reality.
Theres one problem, geek is in. Make no mistake about this either, geek has been in for a long long time. Ever since the explosion of cyberspace and video games, movies with dense CGI, geek has taken over the world. Most geeks/dorks dont even know they're geeks. They think they're cool, and they try to make u feel uncool by calling u a geek. The fact is you're more geek than they are, and the fact that you lead a balanced life, makes u a uber geek compared to them, to u they're just wannabes.
And of course there are always freaks who make geeks look bad. Make no mistake here, geeks are in, as long as its gonna be geeks will rule mainstream culture, just that traditionally geeks and freaks were taken to be the same. Check out "Fear of Girls" on Youtube or google video and you'll see exactly what I mean, especially part 2. Geeks are In, but freaks will always be around.
Man I try so hard to geek myself out everyday. And I know I can never stop trying. Longlive geekdom.:D
Oh and @ Beanbowa
Personally that judge would have picked bones with ya even if you were playing tennis or watching TV, but I think the judge dug right into it because he/she's a geek wannabe, but never made it. Now he/she's just venting on ya, calling you a pokemon player, cause the first draft he or she went to, he/ she got a foil garruk but passed it away cos he/she thought it was a defect, and mourned ever since. All da best to teaching your little girl the ropes! I've been tryin to teach my girlfriend and im getting nowhere,but at least now she understands why Im excited about certain cards.
Magic is not accepted for three really obvious reasons. 1) It has art on the cards. This makes it seem escapist (and actually is escapist for many people, in fact). 2) It has really, really complex rules that make it all but impossible to explain to people with just a passing curiosity. 3) It requires no exertion, and thus appeals to people that are out of shape.
The second point means that people have very little opportunity to become gradually interested in the game: if someone is going to get involved at all, they have to sit down and spend an hour or so just learning the rules. The first point means that people are going to be repelled from sitting down and just learning rules; it makes it feel like a commitment. The third point means that it makes people feel uncomfortable being around people who don't exercise or bathe (and let's face it, even though this doesn't apply to any of the people on these boards, a huge portion of people who play Magic don't bathe regularly).
Compare to something like basketball, which can be played without knowing any of the rules, and it's about as much fun, or to football, for which I know about 70% of the rules, and can still follow fairly well. And both lead to the players being athletic and attractive.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well to be honest just don't care... Like me and my friend were playing in school today at SH and some of the preppy kids were laughing about it... who cares its not cool because it doesnt require physical exertion or damage your body. Also if someone says something i tell em to **** off i could whoop there ass any day. So really who cares if they think you are weird or w/e its their opinion and shouldn't bother you.
I've found that really the only time that people get made fun of for playing MTG or anything like that is when you are embarassed by it. When I first started playing magic, one of my friends came over to my house while I was in the middle of a game and I got a little embarrased, and they made fun of me for a while.
But another time I was at FNM and my cousin points out that some of my friends who are "popular" were walking by and they saw me playing. They looked at me and and kinda laughed, but the next monday, they just said something like "what were you doing?" And I said "playing magic" and they didn't really care.
Same thing with D&D. I was talking to a group of my friends and one of the players in my group just walked up and said "So when are we playing D&D again?" Everyone in the group just stared at me for a few seconds. I made some dumb joke about how much of a nerd I was, and then everything went back to normal because they didn't care.
So just don't be embarassed because you play "nerdy" games. If you don't care, other people probably won't either.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I get that all the time, try admitting you play Magic to a unit of Army MP's.... heh.... they left me alone about it eventually, I even taught a couple of them how to play, lol.
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Standard: GWU Bant Control GRB Jund Ramp GW Overrun
Extended: 0 Affinity
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Quote from Elysium »
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
MTG is like cool and nerdy at the same time! This is a new era! Look at LOTR, hell it was dorky, but when I was in the army all the old captains and sergeant majors were talking about it.
Freaks spoil the geek coolness. All those jocks u know, who make fun of magic players? They probably are jus playing some computer version of a similar thing, or some computer game which sports the same motifs. MTG is their last stand, to impose on themselves a not so geeky self image, but its all a matter of time. Hobby gaming is taking the world by storm, after Dawn of War and WOW TCG came out, its impossible to ignore and pretend you have nothing to do with these things now. IF the pple in charge finally went about to making a good MTG game, people would flock to tourneys and this forum will explode.
@ Carrion Pigeons, there's a lot of brain work going on in sports to be honest. And tactics and strategem are all parts of it. Back in the day when I was kick boxing, hell the minute you stop thinking all the blows start coming and you dont know what to do. My friends tell me its the same in soccer and rugby, when everyone's yelling at you, you cant make mistakes, and you have to make for the best possible route and predic ur oppos next move, its cool. If you dont know the rules, you miss out on abusing them, like in soccer theres the offside rule, which you can "trick" opposing players in faulting, and in taekwando there are a ton of cheap tricks that play by the books that would otherwise be hard to pull off without knowing exactly whats legal.
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I have a friend who basically talks to me at every moment about Magic; he's nearing 40 yrs old and honestly...when someone at that age dedicates ALL their waking time to Magic or any hardcore game like that, I can understand why people would assume this pattern of thought.
Magic is no different than any other hobby; obsession that takes precedence over anything else is privvy to receive these sort of judgements.
Myself? I'm married and live with my wife in a nice appartment. I run my own business, have a good solid group of non-magic playing friends and am in excellent physical shape with an awesome personality.
I keep my magic hobby just that: a hobby. I purchase maybe $40 of cards every two weeks? Maybe even over a month. But I certainly do not dedicate all my time to the game nor talk about it 24/7 like a good majority of people do in this game.
That be all,
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Example this past weekend (New Years) I made 110 dollars playing magic. I won FNM (for 20 store credit), Won a draft (another close to twenty), got second in a rare-pool draft (and picked some chase-rare. honestly do not remember what it was), and sold two of my Tarmogoyfs (of, at the time, eight, now six. no i didn't buy all of them, sheesh, i won them in drafts) to a friend for the generous price of 25$ each (50$). In all that amounts to about 100-110 dollars. I told that I made some money over the weekend. Naturally, they ask how, knowing I do not have a job (a few know I play M:tg). I just reply that it was in a few different tournaments, like poker/chess style thought-based games. The teacher's like pfft w/e but the kids kind of think it's cool, even if card games are weird. (my english teacher actually used to play and saw my M:tg pen once from some release event)
It's weird but if you don't say " itsh a card shtrateggy g-g-game that'sh v-very complicated to play, and itsh not pokemon, jeeshh" lol. and jsut put it like it's a thought-based game like poker/chess they normally are cool w/ it. especially if you mention you can occasionally make money off of it even though you play it for fun.
It really just has to do with most people do not think of it as a well-known or established "thing"
@QuincieMinnieMax: Take your sig/banner for example. Harry Potter. A popular book now a days, eh? It is in its own right a "geeky" subject matter, correct? But, it IS mainstream and therefore accepted (by most) to be "okay" or "normal" or whatever. It is one of hte most popular novels series in recent history I can think of and, again, is very popular even though it is based in the same "nerdy" concepts as D&D and M:tg, etc. Even Star Wars, now a days, is not seen as the geeky thing it used to be, provided you don't go to conventions and cosplay or w/e. Most people think (rather, know) I am a tad strange in some ways, but not in bad ways. They know I play videogames (but who doesn't, really), I *gasp* read!!! (shocking) Even WoW to me, does not seem to get much criticism, etc, from people so long as you look soically acceptable and bathe.
Just make it seem less geeky and relate it to popular things if possible. It helps.
"I cannot wait until i start getting money from winning tournements!"
"One major difference comparing Magic to other fantasy card games is that Magic is not based on a cartoon."
"Magic is a game that evolves around skill, subterfuge, Good, Evil, Fire, water and nature".
My only concern with the game, is that it has and is getting more and more complicated, for those learning how to play. I learned how to play in 1996. Back then it was reasonably simple. New players that started lets say, in Timespiral, see Epic, Bushido, Channel, Forecast, Transmute etc. and go, Hmmm....
There is a lot to take in now. I have taught quite a few people how to play, and even the concept of 'the stack' is a strange one to take for new players.
My thoughts i guess.
And worse than being a tool of evil, it makes you a nerd too.
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
Don't be discouraged, not everyone all over the world thinks magic are for nerds.
Sweet now to pack my stuff and move. Sounds like heaven. No more of, like that time I was at a bus stop and reaching into my pocket for a transpass and got a magic card instead. That woman looked at me like I was carrying a blood dripping knife. As if i would do that, such a cliche'.
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
1) People critisize and look down upon things they don't understand. Your "average" person would look at magic and see it as a waste of time and pointless, even if after learning it they may find they enjoy it.
2) CCG's have a very bad name for them as it is. Look at yugioh and pokemon and all the other horrible rip offs of magic. If people are good at one thing, unfortunately that one thing is stereotyping.
techoverrated.There had to of been a time when Texas Hold 'Em was just some dumb poker game to most, but when they had the chance to see it in action and play the game, it became huge and everyone loves it... Perhaps there will be a day when the same happens with Magic... Until then, I will enjoy playing magic and not worry what others think of it or me.
P.S. you know what's crazy, some people have never even watched a single Star Wars movie, because "it's stupid" or "dorky"..
Perhaps not, Magic has been on ESPN more than once, and no one feels more or less excited about it after the showing (mostly because ESPN didn't do a good job of explaining it, plus it was on at like 3AM )
But seriously I work in an office and people come up to me on Mondays and ask if i played Magic over the weekend since I really just don't care what people think of me. Granted I am your average Magic player who just happens to be fat, but when I tell them I won say..a box, which is worth 80 bucks, they say sweet.
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Not likely. One of the big things that really hurts Magic in a general sense is that it's not elegant. At all.
Let me put it this way: How many rules are there to poker? Let's list the elements of it.
1) You start with a predefined deck. This deck never changes, and the literal value of objects within it never changes.
2) Two cards are dealt from this deck to each player. They bet on how good they think these cards are.
3) Three cards are dealt face up. Players bet on how good the cards they have are with the cards on the table.
4) One card is dealt face up. Players bet on how good the cards they have are with the cards on the table.
5) One card is dealt face up. Players bet on how good the cards they have are with the cards on the table.
6) Players reveal their cards; whoever has formed the best hand wins the money that was bet.
This flow is then repeated continuously. It is, in fact, a very simple process to learn and this constitutes an entire round of gameplay. In Magic, an entire round of gameplay would consist of, just for example, a player untapping his cards, a player triggering upkeep effects, a player drawing a card, a player playing main phase spells and abilities, a player engaging in combat, a player playing main phase spells and abilities, a player proceeding to end of turn and triggering end of turn effects, a player performing cleanup operations, a player ending their turn, and their opponent going through these same steps. Withing each step, there is a list of other steps, and I would go so far as to say that combat alone is more complex than the entirety of Poker.
Combine with the fact that Poker possesses a fair bit of depth in understanding probability and reading other players, and you can find a game that is relatively simple to pick up and has great room for growth. The only real learning curve to poker is remembering which hands beat which, and with a few small exceptions that's fairly easy (quick quiz! Which is higher, straight or flush? ;)). This makes poker a relatively easy game for individuals to pick up and play, and the fact that betting is ingrained in its very nature makes its value immediately apparent.
I don't mind if someone knows i play magic, if they ask me about it i tell them, but im not like "LOOK AT ME, IM A MAGIC PLAYER" either.
Poker has a LOT of skill involved in reading your opponents, knowing when to bluff, and stuff like that. There is possibly more than Magic. You're right that there is also a lot of randomness, but it evens out over the course of a few games/tournaments. You could say the same thing about Magic too.
I can't believe I'm going to confirm this story, but hahaha I remember that so well. Did they really end up taking your picture though?
It's hard for people to care about Magic because it involves so much knowledge to play competitively. You have to know all of the concepts involved (which is true in any hobby/activity), but along with that you need to understand how all the cards and rules work as well as which decks are good and which aren't. Imagine watching a sport and having to read every player to understand what they did. However, variety is a part of what makes Magic such a great game and keeps people playing it. Many of my friends have the attitude that they would play Magic, but they don't because of the time and expense involved. Others I know would play in fourth grade and then stop because they thought it was stupid to spend money on cards. Yes, some people will stereotype it as has been said enough on this thread, but others acknowledge it but just don't care enough to get into it. And there are plenty of more frivolous and/or expensive hobbies than Magic:rolleyes:.
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Ahh..sounds like most of this magic social problems come from canada/usa which I'm intending of going for further studies. Lol, sounds like ppl over there really view magic as some kind of taboo.
I think its a culture difference thing.
... I think it's just that people are just blatantly ignorant sometimes. I personally play magic for fun, to do something mentally stimulating when I hang out with my friends, and as an expression of my personal freedom. What is so spectacular about doing what everyone else is doing? Pick the activities you like, not the ones other tell you you should like...
It all depends on how other people are brought up, heck how many of your friends might be "secret" gamers too? You never know.
At first, I was pretty "ashamed" of being a gamer, I would never tell some people unless they caught me in the act. But it's not too bad, i'm having fun. I just think some people let this engulf their lives, way past an appropriate age.
Partially because we feel the need to post about how we aren't accepted in an online forum, most likely.
[/sarcasm or whatever that was]
Here's a summary of a quick discussion we had at my lab bench during Hon Chem today.
That was basically it. No harm done to anybody. And in that kid's eyes I'm not like a super-dork or anything, just a person who makes some money on the side doing something he likes to do for fun anyways.
~Later~
Because magic is dorky. Make no mistake about it, MTG, other CCGs, Tabletop miniature games, RPGs these are all dorky. They are dorky because they borrow motifs from highly fantastical fictional narratives and literary traditions, which often, and in the case of MTG unmistakably associates itself with hyper dramatic grandeur and sense of self importance, which is conventionally seen IN CONTRAST to more materially(socially and arbitrarily) substantiable kinds of achievements. In other words, people like us, who actively engage in fantastic motifs have been seen as unrealistic and somewhat, to beg a better term, escapists in lieu of the mainstream social landscape and we make those we are not like us feel better, because they have a better grip and are supposedly better equipped to partake in reality.
Theres one problem, geek is in. Make no mistake about this either, geek has been in for a long long time. Ever since the explosion of cyberspace and video games, movies with dense CGI, geek has taken over the world. Most geeks/dorks dont even know they're geeks. They think they're cool, and they try to make u feel uncool by calling u a geek. The fact is you're more geek than they are, and the fact that you lead a balanced life, makes u a uber geek compared to them, to u they're just wannabes.
And of course there are always freaks who make geeks look bad. Make no mistake here, geeks are in, as long as its gonna be geeks will rule mainstream culture, just that traditionally geeks and freaks were taken to be the same. Check out "Fear of Girls" on Youtube or google video and you'll see exactly what I mean, especially part 2. Geeks are In, but freaks will always be around.
Man I try so hard to geek myself out everyday. And I know I can never stop trying. Longlive geekdom.:D
Oh and @ Beanbowa
Personally that judge would have picked bones with ya even if you were playing tennis or watching TV, but I think the judge dug right into it because he/she's a geek wannabe, but never made it. Now he/she's just venting on ya, calling you a pokemon player, cause the first draft he or she went to, he/ she got a foil garruk but passed it away cos he/she thought it was a defect, and mourned ever since. All da best to teaching your little girl the ropes! I've been tryin to teach my girlfriend and im getting nowhere,but at least now she understands why Im excited about certain cards.
The second point means that people have very little opportunity to become gradually interested in the game: if someone is going to get involved at all, they have to sit down and spend an hour or so just learning the rules. The first point means that people are going to be repelled from sitting down and just learning rules; it makes it feel like a commitment. The third point means that it makes people feel uncomfortable being around people who don't exercise or bathe (and let's face it, even though this doesn't apply to any of the people on these boards, a huge portion of people who play Magic don't bathe regularly).
Compare to something like basketball, which can be played without knowing any of the rules, and it's about as much fun, or to football, for which I know about 70% of the rules, and can still follow fairly well. And both lead to the players being athletic and attractive.
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But another time I was at FNM and my cousin points out that some of my friends who are "popular" were walking by and they saw me playing. They looked at me and and kinda laughed, but the next monday, they just said something like "what were you doing?" And I said "playing magic" and they didn't really care.
Same thing with D&D. I was talking to a group of my friends and one of the players in my group just walked up and said "So when are we playing D&D again?" Everyone in the group just stared at me for a few seconds. I made some dumb joke about how much of a nerd I was, and then everything went back to normal because they didn't care.
So just don't be embarassed because you play "nerdy" games. If you don't care, other people probably won't either.
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MTG is like cool and nerdy at the same time! This is a new era! Look at LOTR, hell it was dorky, but when I was in the army all the old captains and sergeant majors were talking about it.
Freaks spoil the geek coolness. All those jocks u know, who make fun of magic players? They probably are jus playing some computer version of a similar thing, or some computer game which sports the same motifs. MTG is their last stand, to impose on themselves a not so geeky self image, but its all a matter of time. Hobby gaming is taking the world by storm, after Dawn of War and WOW TCG came out, its impossible to ignore and pretend you have nothing to do with these things now. IF the pple in charge finally went about to making a good MTG game, people would flock to tourneys and this forum will explode.
@ Carrion Pigeons, there's a lot of brain work going on in sports to be honest. And tactics and strategem are all parts of it. Back in the day when I was kick boxing, hell the minute you stop thinking all the blows start coming and you dont know what to do. My friends tell me its the same in soccer and rugby, when everyone's yelling at you, you cant make mistakes, and you have to make for the best possible route and predic ur oppos next move, its cool. If you dont know the rules, you miss out on abusing them, like in soccer theres the offside rule, which you can "trick" opposing players in faulting, and in taekwando there are a ton of cheap tricks that play by the books that would otherwise be hard to pull off without knowing exactly whats legal.