GC, your statement makes no sense. Reading it, your favorite fact about the gutter is those who complain about it and those who are annoyed most about being banned, and you're asking if this is a coincidence.
It makes perfect sense: the people who most want to be allowed to post in the gutter (you and soron) and are also the people who spend the most time complaining about the gutter outside of the gutter. I think this is really odd, and wonder if there is some correlation between wanting to be accepted in the gutter and resenting the gutter, or if it just a coincidence.
The gutter does not exist[...]the gutter will live on
So which is it? You can't pretend it doesn't exist for one arguement, then talk about how it will 'live on' in a following statement. It either exists or it doesn't.
I don't see the difference between me yelling at my computer screen and posting on the gutter. Can someone explain that to me, because I see them as one and the same. Its the internet equivalent of couch coaching, 'ure doing it wrong', etc.
Incidentally, by suggesting there's no difference between the two it means you would have no opinion on removing the gutter, as you'd have an identical [no difference] option in yelling at your computer screen. Or, if someone said 'remove the gutter' you'd say 'sure, why not, I can yell at my computer screen, it's one and the same'.
And I completely agree. I see no difference between the two.
As for whether the calling of the gutter into question has been a coincidence among gutterbanned members, I think it is somewhat. People who hadn't been to the gutter can't truly argue against it as they probably don't know what exactly happens there. Those who have been there feel as though they have more ground to stand on since they've 'been there'.
I would like to point out from a debate standpoint that Cadet's arguments that there is in fact gutter spillover in the form of some thread[s] and signatures have not been responded to.
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Drop by my Helpdesk if you have any questions/concerns on the Limited forum.
Excited for M13 Limited? What do you think the format will look like? Head over to the limited forum and let us know what you think.
Penguin, he's basically doing a Fight Club reference here. It doesn't exist, you don't talk about it. He's saying that if you're not in the Gutter, it doesn't concern you. And that if you're part of it, you shouldn't be talking about it.
Penguin, he's basically doing a Fight Club reference here. It doesn't exist, you don't talk about it. He's saying that if you're not in the Gutter, it doesn't concern you. And that if you're part of it, you shouldn't be talking about it.
I thought so.....but I don't feel as thought it compares quite so directly. Really the Fight Club reference works best for having the Gutter Members not talk about the gutter. The Fight Club rules applied to whom? Fight Club. The Gutter Rules apply to Gutter members. Not non-gutter members.
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Waiting patiently for MTGO Leagues to become a priority again. It's been 4 years :sick:.
Drop by my Helpdesk if you have any questions/concerns on the Limited forum.
Excited for M13 Limited? What do you think the format will look like? Head over to the limited forum and let us know what you think.
I would like to point out from a debate standpoint that Cadet's arguments that there is in fact gutter spillover in the form of some thread[s] and signatures have not been responded to.
They actually have been many times between threads including in this thread and before they were brought up in this thread even.
If something inappropriate spills into the forums from an outside source, it's all treated the same way regardless of where it spills from.
Look, it doesn't matter how you slice it: the Gutter is a continual source of drama on MTGS. This has been true for some time, and it appears to be largely unaffected by what the Gutter's intent is, what it's rules are, and whether or not Gutter members are all vicious baddies or sweet angels.
What the Gutter is, put simply, is a Lulz subforum. The pervasive standard that's always getting openly applied to it's posters and activities is level of hilarity and audacity. It's not some great social experiment, nor is it a necessary cathartic channel. Other forums do just fine without a specially erected emotion receptacle. It's primarily an Internet Lulz subforum, operating by special rules, and it's secret. That's all.
Not that that's necessarily bad, at least not innately. But as one of the recreational luxuries of this site, it's something that may require a price, and you have to consider if you want to pay that price. In this case, one of the costs is having to deal with the controversy and paranoia that surrounds a secret part of the site that is known to break all the rules and welcome scandalous talk.
"Scandal" is the best word for it. Come on, what do you expect? It's going to be a scandal as long as there exists this tension between those who can see the Gutter, those who can't, and those who blur the line.
Sorry, but what do you want? People are going to keep talking about it, keep getting confused about it, and likely there will be further cases of the actions of one or two people getting blamed on the whole Gutter. No amount of "you never talk about Fight Club" is going to cure that.
If you're going to have a subforum like the Gutter, cool beans, have it. But at least look at the facts of it and do a better job of taking care of the fall-out than just telling people not to talk about it. It doesn't matter if it's something written in the Gutter moving onto the public forum or not. There's still an interactivity, no matter how subtle, between the two sectors of the site. The Gutter is still part of MTGS, it's still part of the community. Expect that to make a difference.
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All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
Look, it doesn't matter how you slice it: the Gutter is a continual source of drama on MTGS. This has been true for some time, and it appears to be largely unaffected by what the Gutter's intent is, what it's rules are, and whether or not Gutter members are all vicious baddies or sweet angels.
What the Gutter is, put simply, is a Lulz subforum. The pervasive standard that's always getting openly applied to it's posters and activities is level of hilarity and audacity. It's not some great social experiment, nor is it a necessary cathartic channel. Other forums do just fine without a specially erected emotion receptacle. It's primarily an Internet Lulz subforum, operating by special rules, and it's secret. That's all.
Not that that's necessarily bad, at least not innately. But as one of the recreational luxuries of this site, it's something that may require a price, and you have to consider if you want to pay that price. In this case, one of the costs is having to deal with the controversy and paranoia that surrounds a secret part of the site that is known to break all the rules and welcome scandalous talk.
"Scandal" is the best word for it. Come on, what do you expect? It's going to be a scandal as long as there exists this tension between those who can see the Gutter, those who can't, and those who blur the line.
Sorry, but what do you want? People are going to keep talking about it, keep getting confused about it, and likely there will be further cases of the actions of one or two people getting blamed on the whole Gutter. No amount of "you never talk about Fight Club" is going to cure that.
If you're going to have a subforum like the Gutter, cool beans, have it. But at least look at the facts of it and do a better job of taking care of the fall-out than just telling people not to talk about it.
You have no idea what you are talking about, since what started all of this drama was Soron and the Cadet, as once they were gutterbanned, they went ape crazy with this vendetta against it. Sakura's banning is just being used as scapegoat for them to focus their anger against the gutter, as many gutter members, which does include members of the mod staff, were not quite fond of Sakura.
Do you know how old the gutter is, its not like this is new, this happens all the time. People aren't liked and they get made fun of. Some people cannot handle it. About a year ago there was a problem with gutter mod KCW and then a former Global Mod. And they were banned. Just like everyone else. So these prices and such you are rambling about are paid, all the time, you jsut haven't noticed it until now, since your friends are complaining.
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Don't mind my posts, they are probably just a product of gang violence
You have no idea what you are talking about, since what started all of this drama was Soron and the Cadet, as once they were gutterbanned, they went ape crazy with this vendetta against it. Sakura's banning is just being used as scapegoat for them to focus their anger against the gutter, as many gutter members, which does include members of the mod staff, were not quite fond of Sakura.
Do you know how old the gutter is, its not like this is new, this happens all the time. People aren't liked and they get made fun of. Some people cannot handle it. About a year ago there was a problem with gutter mod KCW and then a former Global Mod. And they were banned. Just like everyone else. So these prices and such you are rambling about are paid, all the time, you jsut haven't noticed it until now, since your friends are complaining.
Um . . . yeah, nice rebuttal. Thanks for kind of demonstrating my point.
So, tell me. If this happens all the time, then this means that the Gutter is not a source of drama on this site? Okay, yeah, that makes sense. In a way that completely doesn't.
Also, funny thing. Who are my friends complaining? Soron? I don't even know Soron. Cadet? I vaguely recognize him. Yeah. Before you make what you feel is some kind of cutting sweep that knocks my argument out from under its feet, you might want to make sure you have a leg to stand on yourself.
If Gutterbans regularly cause this much havoc, then think about that for a second. Just think it over. Then think about it some more. What should that tell you?
Yeah, the "costs are being paid all along," aren't they. Well, you've got me convinced.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
This happens all the time: as in, people complaining they got removed from the gutter
KCW problems were of his infraction based on the color txt font he would use after being told by seds not to( among other things)
Friend: Sakura, we all know you post in gaymers and are a transgender individual, and that is the only reason you are posting here, since lately the Gutter is being blamed for banning a troll.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, as you have proven my point by assuming, so stop posting about this. You have no reason to speak out against the gutter as you know only what people are saying, until recently I bet you didn't even know it was there.
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Don't mind my posts, they are probably just a product of gang violence
This happens all the time: as in, people complaining they got removed from the gutter
KCW problems were of his infraction based on the color txt font he would use after being told by seds not to( among other things)
Friend: Sakura, we all know you post in gaymers and are a transgender individual, and that is the only reason you are posting here, since lately the Gutter is being blamed for banning a troll.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, as you have proven my point by assuming, so stop posting about this. You have no reason to speak out against the gutter as you know only what people are saying, until recently I bet you didn't even know it was there.
Nice. Recap.
I'm not speaking out against the Gutter. Do you seriously not realize that? Turn your autopilot off, I don't care to muck through your outrage at your subforum getting attacked. I don't want to deal with it, and I'm not going to hold your hand reassuring you that I'm not badmouthing your recreation. I don't want to hear about how I'm being so mean to the poor, persecuted Gutter members. I have no problem with the existence of the Gutter.
I'm saying that if you make a mess, you clean it up. That's not complicated, it's not hard, it shouldn't come as a radical revelation to anybody. If you don't want there to be drama - whether it's about Gutterbans or what get's posted in the Gutter or just what non-Gutter members come to believe about the Gutter - then stop being so damn defensive and start doing some actual damage control. Otherwise, stop whining. To whom it may concern.
And yes, tell me that I'm only interested because I'm defending Sakura. Interesting how I haven't mentioned Sakura yet, haven't said a word about bannings or moderation or anything, and yet it's so obvious that I'm hear out of a sense of transgender-comraderie. That must be it. Sakura got criticized for bringing her transgender status up too much and using it as a defense. What I see is that it's being constantly brought up by people who try to "tell it like it is" about Sakura's actions - or, in this case, mine. Stop trying to make it relevant when it's not and then pegging it on someone else. I'm not interested in your entitled-minority conspiracy theory.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
Sorry, I'm going to be frank here; for Christ's sake, (to whom it applies, (SoronTheBeast and The Cadet, perhaps?)) get over being Gutterbanned (iff it's got to do with your Gutterbanning). If you can't handle getting Gutterbanned, you can't handle the Gutter, and if you can't handle the Gutter, why the hell did you even apply - and, maybe reapply (but I don't know) and/or get access and/or info through other users and/or gimmick accounts?
('course, "can't" is interchangeable with "couldn't".)
On the definition of 'libel'; SoronTheBeast, don't use legal terminology and misapply it. It's simply pretentious, showy, and unacceptable; one might say it's idiotic, lacking sense or intelligence.
Perhaps, instead of linking to Dictionary.com, or whatever, it would have been wiser had you at least linked to some comparatively dependable website such as lawsource.com, findlaw.com, or better yet, the actual Defamation Act itself (from governmental websites, of course)!
As for the Gutter's status, for starters, what it is, is something you shouldn't be concerned about. Secondly, it itself does nothing and is nothing; if anything, it's the users.
Look, it doesn't matter how you slice it: the Gutter is a continual source of drama on MTGS. This has been true for some time, and it appears to be largely unaffected by what the Gutter's intent is, what it's rules are, and whether or not Gutter members are all vicious baddies or sweet angels.
Actually, it does matter how you slice it. The Gutter itself isn't some watershed where we mastermind schemes against other users. Some users do this and use it for that. Which is the problem. Some users. You're blaming the whole for the fault of the part. The only way to do this is by not actually knowing what happens there. Therefore, it is not beyond >.< for assuming you have no idea what you're talking about, because you blame the actions of the few as the course of the many.
Sorry, but what do you want? People are going to keep talking about it, keep getting confused about it, and likely there will be further cases of the actions of one or two people getting blamed on the whole Gutter. No amount of "you never talk about Fight Club" is going to cure that.
You could just choose to ignore it (not you specifically, I just mean the people that start threads like these who don't know heads from tails) and go on your daily life instead of indulging some masturbatory impulse to stir the pot and put and ear to a cup on the floor in hopes to hear some stirring on the floor below. There are far easier, more recreational and less detrimental methods of feeding a masturbatory impulse and more often than not they won't have a detrimental effect on anyone else in the process.
If you're going to have a subforum like the Gutter, cool beans, have it. But at least look at the facts of it and do a better job of taking care of the fall-out than just telling people not to talk about it.
Here's the thing that I've been saying but I'll say it again: people who do skirt the rules, take "drama" in the gutter outside of it, and generally do unkind things to the forums are penalized for it. Whether the result of this is a bunch of people talking over AIM, making a thread on 4chan, starting a forum called "forums.lets-make-fun-of-mtgs-members.com," or posting in the gutter is irrelevant because they're separate entities from the MTGS forums but can bring undesirable things to the forums.
It doesn't matter if it's something written in the Gutter moving onto the public forum or not. There's still an interactivity, no matter how subtle, between the two sectors of the site. The Gutter is still part of MTGS, it's still part of the community. Expect that to make a difference.
It really doesn't, though. If I made an internet forum called "The Gutter" where we just talked about what, for example, Mamelon or some other poster on MTGS did, then came on here and made a SYM thread that said, "People with the word Melon in their usernames smell bad lol" you'd still be inciced and eventually you may even trace it back to "forums.thegutter.com." I don't see the difference and, considering you don't use the gutter, neither should you.
I'm saying that if you make a mess, you clean it up. That's not complicated, it's not hard, it shouldn't come as a radical revelation to anybody.
It isn't. In fact, it's been stated across posts across threads on this very same subject, so I'll just reword it so even the *DRAMABARONS who frequent roundabout discussions like these can "get it": U DO BAD U GET IN TRUBLE, LOL KK, bb? This is true of KCW and FLCL as it is your friend and theinfamousbearassassin. But thanks all the same for 3 extremely wordy, extraneous posts that implore the staff and gutter members to do what already occurs.
So, forgive a lurking member's curiosity... but how exactly does one go about getting access to this oft discussed 'Gutter'? Is it just a well hidden link submerged within these pages, or is it a private subforum whose admissions are managed by the notoriously democratic medium of 'secret popularity contest'?
If you need to ask then you probably shouldn't go there. Just as a heads up on the topic for you and anyone else with similar questions.
Here is the bit that I don't understand: SoronTheBeast and BudgetPlayerCadet were deemed by a majority of gutter users to be unworthy of the gutter. These two then come outside and start stirring up trouble re: the gutter, and then people like mamelon blame the gutter for these threads.
Well thanks for that, but it didn't actually answer my question, did it?
Also, touched though I am by your benevolent concern for my sensibilities, please don't imagine that everybody who isn't fluent in the intricacies and minutiae of Sally's sub-forum politics, is some kind of "n00b 2 teh internetz" who simply couldn't handle whatever turbo-mind-blowing-awesomeness it is that you believe 'teh gutta' contains. My naivete concerning MTGS's organisational structure is not an indication of my general internet experience, nor of my ability to 'handle' whichever potty-words and junior trollery your secret 'naughty people' forum contains.
In other words (1) Can I have a real answer now please? (2) Did you really need to be so condescending with your first? (3) Rest assured that I've undoubtedly seen bigger and badder dens of trollery than your beloved 'Gutter', it really isn't going to be that big a deal. (4) I, and probably inumerate other 'uninitiated' users, could certainly cope with whatever 'horrors' you believe your 'Gutter' could throw at me/us... it really can't be that serious a business... and I suspect that a great number of us are /b/ (or similar) regulars. Do you honestly compare?
Anyway, all civil answers appreciated.
Much love,
Mwah mwah mwah, etc.
that's exactly the attitude we dislike: the assumption that you are worthy of the gutter, and the assumption that we are 'a den of trollery'. We just want a place where we can speak our minds without being censored or infracted, and all these noobs come in who incorrectly assume that a thick-skin and a dictionary of swear-words will gain them acceptance. At least once a month we get a 'Flame me' thread from some noob who thinks it is the way to gain acceptance. It might have worked in 2005. Now it just gets you banned.
"My naivete concerning MTGS's organisational structure is not an indication of my general internet experience, nor of my ability to 'handle' whichever potty-words and junior trollery your secret 'naughty people' forum contains."
This sentence is all the indication we need that you don't have the attitude that allows you to fit in.
Let me spell it out for you, because you appear to be having some difficulty with this:
I don't want access to your private little boys club. I don't think I'm "worthy" of entering your super-cool inner-circle of internet-buddys. I don't want to gaze upon your interpretation of "teh bestest bit of teh internetz", and it woud only be a disappointment to me if I did.
Please stop flattering yourself by thinking I care to join you in your "not a den of trollery, which just so happens to be full of trolls who can't understand your posts, and can only reply with trolly angry/faux-patronising comments".
If you go back and actually read this thread, you'll notice that I have only ever been politely enquiring in which fashion the much vaunted 'Gutter' love-nest is tucked away from the general forum. I have never cared to access it, and I have never requested that anybody lets me do so.
All I am asking for is a little bit of an explanation about where "Teh Guttar" is located on Sally. But so far, all I've had in response is condescension, alarm, and abuse; all of it from 'Gutter members.
So: One more time, can anybody inform me whether the Gutter is a well forum hidden among these pages, or is it a private usergroup that you can't see until you are deemed "worthy" of entry?
And please, spare me all the "No! U r not yet wurthy 4 teh membersheep" humbug. I don't want to join you, I just want to know where precisely it is that your circle-jerking takes place.
Why did you assure us that you "could certainly cope with whatever 'horrors' you believe your 'Gutter' could throw at me" if you didn't intend to enter?
Let me spell it out for you, because you appear to be having some difficulty with this:
I don't want access to your private little boys club. I don't think I'm "worthy" of entering your super-cool inner-circle of internet-buddys. I don't want to gaze upon your interpretation of "teh bestest bit of teh internetz", and it woud only be a disappointment to me if I did.
Please stop flattering yourself by thinking I care to join you in your "not a den of trollery, which just so happens to be full of trolls who can't understand your posts, and can only reply with trolly angry/faux-patronising comments".
If you go back and actually read this thread, you'll notice that I have only ever been politely enquiring in which fashion the much vaunted 'Gutter' love-nest is tucked away from the general forum. I have never cared to access it, and I have never requested that anybody lets me do so.
All I am asking for is a little bit of an explanation about where "Teh Guttar" is located on Sally. But so far, all I've had in response is condescension, alarm, and abuse; all of it from 'Gutter members.
So: One more time, can anybody inform me whether the Gutter is a well forum hidden among these pages, or is it a private usergroup that you can't see until you are deemed "worthy" of entry?
And please, spare me all the "No! U r not yet wurthy 4 teh membersheep" humbug. I don't want to join you, I just want to know where precisely it is that your circle-jerking takes place.
Hidden Forum, now stop trying to be funny and stop making yourself look like an idiot.
Because, instead of just answering my question, Monsieur Kijin said "If you need to ask then you probably shouldn't go there".
To break it down even more for you, because I suspect it's going to be necessary, what I was saying was "Actually, I dispute your irrelevant assertions, now could you answer my question?". What I was not saying was "I wish to put your irrelevant assertions to the test".
Got the difference now?
Also, am I ever going to get an answer to my original question?
Or is this just going to turn into a festival of Gutter members like the Fallen One trying to pick an irrelevant argument because they're upset that somebody on the internet isn't begging to join their secret little club?
I barely post in the gutter anymore, so don't act like anyone is out to get you. Was your original question about where to find the gutter? I already said it was a hidden forum, so I dont know what more you want.
Because, instead of just answering my question, Monsieur Kijin said "If you need to ask then you probably shouldn't go there".
To break it down even more for you, because I suspect it's going to be necessary, what I was saying was "Actually, I dispute your irrelevant assertions, now could you answer my question?". What I was not saying was "I wish to put your irrelevant assertions to the test".
Got the difference now?
Also, am I ever going to get an answer to my original question?
Or is this just going to turn into a festival of Gutter members like the Fallen One trying to pick an irrelevant argument because they're upset that somebody on the internet isn't begging to join their secret little club?
"(3) Rest assured that I've undoubtedly seen bigger and badder dens of trollery than your beloved 'Gutter', it really isn't going to be that big a deal."
The direct implication of this statement is that seeing the gutter isn't going to be that big a deal, and the only way you are going to see the gutter is if someone tells you how to get in. Why would you ask how to get into the gutter and say that seeing it won't be a big deal if you didn't intend to enter?
So: One more time, can anybody inform me whether the Gutter is a well forum hidden among these pages, or is it a private usergroup that you can't see until you are deemed "worthy" of entry
This, basically. It's a group that you have to apply for membership to, and if you're accepted by whoever the guttermods happen to be at the time, you gain access to the forum. Apart from that, it works like any other subforum, except there's no profanity censor in place like there is for the rest of the forum and there are hardly any rules (as long as everything is kept legal). The guttermods have the power to edit your posts in the Gutter or to gutterban you as they see fit (although all of the guttermods at the moment seem to be admins or global mods, so this isn't as relevant).
"Hello! I've come to serenade you. I can't play guitar. I can't play this accordion either, but I thought it'd be less obvious."
Dylan Moran, Black Books
That's if you actually care about what other people have to say about you. If you realized that their opinions of you aren't really relevant to you or your life, unless they're your boss or something, then anything you feel as the result of buying into their discussion is your own insecurity and paranoia on something that does not affect your life in any meaningful way. You can be mad, but investing any time aside from making a note that you don't like being picked on is a WASTE of your time, effort and life.
I realize that, which is was I am only complaining about it here. If you feel I should not even be doing that, that by your own logic, neither should you about me.
If someone says I'm insane, I can choose to do one of two things:
1- Brush it off or ask them to stop and brush it off, go on with my life and not care
2- Go completely nuts on the person, post blogs and forum posts about the person or persons throughout the internet and generally attract attention to myself and my own insecurities as a person
One of these responses is a sane and mature manner of handling bullying. The other is not. I will leave which is which for you to decide.
3. Give them an infraction for flaming. You ARE a mod remember
4chan is hosted on the same servers as sites that are not 4chan. The Gutter is not on the same page as MTGS unless you sign up to see the gutter on the same page as MTGS. I'm not saying your logic is completely incorrect here, but the examples you use to defend them are.
This logic is completely flawed. Are instances not part of WoW because you can't get into one just by logging on?
Also, by this logic ANY hidden subforum would not follow the site rules, which is not true. Behind the Screen must follow the rules of the site. You NEED to log on to MTGS to get to the Gutter, because ITS PART OF THE SITE.
Um.. yes I was. I speak English. It was not made as a legal statement... I am not sure why your so hung up on this. I used it as it means for what it means.
You have no idea what you are talking about, since what started all of this drama was Soron and the Cadet, as once they were gutterbanned, they went ape crazy with this vendetta against it.
Umm. No. What I did after that was get my Gimmicks in. Lurked for about a month or two. Then, I logged on with all my gimmicks on the same computer (something I did not do until basically just then. Check the logs my gimmick did not have my IP for over a year, until I got onto the Gutter) so that the mod's could find me and Gban me, because I had enough. Started having my gimmicks post reasons for why the Gutter should not exists. Then I told everyone I had Gimmicks all over the Gutter, and was Gbanned. Though, I had to work TWO DAYS to get my gimmicks banned..... Its hard to get Gbanned when you WANT to be.
But your description of events makes me look stupid, so I guess you can believe it your way if you want.
My favourite fact about the gutter: the people who complain most about it outside and the people who were most annoyed to be banned inside. Coincidence?
Though, I had to work TWO DAYS to get my gimmicks banned..... Its hard to get Gbanned when you WANT to be.
If you wanted to leave the gutter so badly, then why didn't you just leave the group? Saying you were trying to get gutterbanned is 100% false because, if I remember correctly, when you were told you were going to be gutterbanned, you did everything you could to convince the mods to let you stay.
If you wanted to leave the gutter so badly, then why didn't you just leave the group? Saying you were trying to get gutterbanned is 100% false because, if I remember correctly, when you were told you were going to be gutterbanned, you did everything you could to convince the mods to let you stay.
? When they saw said post, and started commenting on it stated flaming everyone.(beginning with the active Gmod) How is THAT "asking to stay?"
It took almost 24 hours for me to get Gbanned after I made that above post, check the time and date. I will admit that getting KICKED off was much more fun then sending a Gmod a PM, but I guess the latter would have been faster.
To partially quote Jack Nicholson: "And The Gutter's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves MTGS."
THere are people who have come to Salvation, and NEWS for that matter, for many years. THey have read through the good stuff on each site and they drudge through the bad things written on this site as well. Rumor season is the worst when it comes to utter stupidity. Many who love coming here find their membership in the "Gutter" as an escape to a place where people feel a similar gripe and can express it freely. You don't have to censor yourself or your thoughts, but you do have to have a reason to post because the rules are whatever everyone wants them to be.
People like you, Soron and Cadet, wanted that kind of inclusion but you went about it the wrong way and got yourself banned. You weren't given a reason and that pissed you off. You know what....that's too bad. It isn't a right to belong there....hell, it isn't even a right to belong here. As with any group, it's a priviledge to belong. If you screw that priviledge up then the group has every right to boot you out.....FOREVER. This is the way of life. If you aren't accepted then you find other outlets and places and people that will accept you for who you are. If you aren't accepted, then is it really worth your time to fight it? There are so many arguements out there, it really benefits you in the long run to pick the ones you really think are worth fighting.
People arent' going to like you....accept it and move on. There are many people who don't like me.....I'm too old to care.
/ma lawn.....get off!
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It makes perfect sense: the people who most want to be allowed to post in the gutter (you and soron) and are also the people who spend the most time complaining about the gutter outside of the gutter. I think this is really odd, and wonder if there is some correlation between wanting to be accepted in the gutter and resenting the gutter, or if it just a coincidence.
So which is it? You can't pretend it doesn't exist for one arguement, then talk about how it will 'live on' in a following statement. It either exists or it doesn't.
Incidentally, by suggesting there's no difference between the two it means you would have no opinion on removing the gutter, as you'd have an identical [no difference] option in yelling at your computer screen. Or, if someone said 'remove the gutter' you'd say 'sure, why not, I can yell at my computer screen, it's one and the same'.
And I completely agree. I see no difference between the two.
As for whether the calling of the gutter into question has been a coincidence among gutterbanned members, I think it is somewhat. People who hadn't been to the gutter can't truly argue against it as they probably don't know what exactly happens there. Those who have been there feel as though they have more ground to stand on since they've 'been there'.
I would like to point out from a debate standpoint that Cadet's arguments that there is in fact gutter spillover in the form of some thread[s] and signatures have not been responded to.
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I thought so.....but I don't feel as thought it compares quite so directly. Really the Fight Club reference works best for having the Gutter Members not talk about the gutter. The Fight Club rules applied to whom? Fight Club. The Gutter Rules apply to Gutter members. Not non-gutter members.
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They actually have been many times between threads including in this thread and before they were brought up in this thread even.
If something inappropriate spills into the forums from an outside source, it's all treated the same way regardless of where it spills from.
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What the Gutter is, put simply, is a Lulz subforum. The pervasive standard that's always getting openly applied to it's posters and activities is level of hilarity and audacity. It's not some great social experiment, nor is it a necessary cathartic channel. Other forums do just fine without a specially erected emotion receptacle. It's primarily an Internet Lulz subforum, operating by special rules, and it's secret. That's all.
Not that that's necessarily bad, at least not innately. But as one of the recreational luxuries of this site, it's something that may require a price, and you have to consider if you want to pay that price. In this case, one of the costs is having to deal with the controversy and paranoia that surrounds a secret part of the site that is known to break all the rules and welcome scandalous talk.
"Scandal" is the best word for it. Come on, what do you expect? It's going to be a scandal as long as there exists this tension between those who can see the Gutter, those who can't, and those who blur the line.
Sorry, but what do you want? People are going to keep talking about it, keep getting confused about it, and likely there will be further cases of the actions of one or two people getting blamed on the whole Gutter. No amount of "you never talk about Fight Club" is going to cure that.
If you're going to have a subforum like the Gutter, cool beans, have it. But at least look at the facts of it and do a better job of taking care of the fall-out than just telling people not to talk about it. It doesn't matter if it's something written in the Gutter moving onto the public forum or not. There's still an interactivity, no matter how subtle, between the two sectors of the site. The Gutter is still part of MTGS, it's still part of the community. Expect that to make a difference.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
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You have no idea what you are talking about, since what started all of this drama was Soron and the Cadet, as once they were gutterbanned, they went ape crazy with this vendetta against it. Sakura's banning is just being used as scapegoat for them to focus their anger against the gutter, as many gutter members, which does include members of the mod staff, were not quite fond of Sakura.
Do you know how old the gutter is, its not like this is new, this happens all the time. People aren't liked and they get made fun of. Some people cannot handle it. About a year ago there was a problem with gutter mod KCW and then a former Global Mod. And they were banned. Just like everyone else. So these prices and such you are rambling about are paid, all the time, you jsut haven't noticed it until now, since your friends are complaining.
So, tell me. If this happens all the time, then this means that the Gutter is not a source of drama on this site? Okay, yeah, that makes sense. In a way that completely doesn't.
Also, funny thing. Who are my friends complaining? Soron? I don't even know Soron. Cadet? I vaguely recognize him. Yeah. Before you make what you feel is some kind of cutting sweep that knocks my argument out from under its feet, you might want to make sure you have a leg to stand on yourself.
If Gutterbans regularly cause this much havoc, then think about that for a second. Just think it over. Then think about it some more. What should that tell you?
Yeah, the "costs are being paid all along," aren't they. Well, you've got me convinced.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
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KCW problems were of his infraction based on the color txt font he would use after being told by seds not to( among other things)
Friend: Sakura, we all know you post in gaymers and are a transgender individual, and that is the only reason you are posting here, since lately the Gutter is being blamed for banning a troll.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, as you have proven my point by assuming, so stop posting about this. You have no reason to speak out against the gutter as you know only what people are saying, until recently I bet you didn't even know it was there.
I'm not speaking out against the Gutter. Do you seriously not realize that? Turn your autopilot off, I don't care to muck through your outrage at your subforum getting attacked. I don't want to deal with it, and I'm not going to hold your hand reassuring you that I'm not badmouthing your recreation. I don't want to hear about how I'm being so mean to the poor, persecuted Gutter members. I have no problem with the existence of the Gutter.
I'm saying that if you make a mess, you clean it up. That's not complicated, it's not hard, it shouldn't come as a radical revelation to anybody. If you don't want there to be drama - whether it's about Gutterbans or what get's posted in the Gutter or just what non-Gutter members come to believe about the Gutter - then stop being so damn defensive and start doing some actual damage control. Otherwise, stop whining. To whom it may concern.
And yes, tell me that I'm only interested because I'm defending Sakura. Interesting how I haven't mentioned Sakura yet, haven't said a word about bannings or moderation or anything, and yet it's so obvious that I'm hear out of a sense of transgender-comraderie. That must be it. Sakura got criticized for bringing her transgender status up too much and using it as a defense. What I see is that it's being constantly brought up by people who try to "tell it like it is" about Sakura's actions - or, in this case, mine. Stop trying to make it relevant when it's not and then pegging it on someone else. I'm not interested in your entitled-minority conspiracy theory.
Keep fighting that good fight.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
Gaymers | Magic Coffeehouse | Little Jar of Mamelon | Natural 20
Sorry, I'm going to be frank here; for Christ's sake, (to whom it applies, (SoronTheBeast and The Cadet, perhaps?)) get over being Gutterbanned (iff it's got to do with your Gutterbanning). If you can't handle getting Gutterbanned, you can't handle the Gutter, and if you can't handle the Gutter, why the hell did you even apply - and, maybe reapply (but I don't know) and/or get access and/or info through other users and/or gimmick accounts?
('course, "can't" is interchangeable with "couldn't".)
On the definition of 'libel'; SoronTheBeast, don't use legal terminology and misapply it. It's simply pretentious, showy, and unacceptable; one might say it's idiotic, lacking sense or intelligence.
Perhaps, instead of linking to Dictionary.com, or whatever, it would have been wiser had you at least linked to some comparatively dependable website such as lawsource.com, findlaw.com, or better yet, the actual Defamation Act itself (from governmental websites, of course)!
As for the Gutter's status, for starters, what it is, is something you shouldn't be concerned about. Secondly, it itself does nothing and is nothing; if anything, it's the users.
Actually, it does matter how you slice it. The Gutter itself isn't some watershed where we mastermind schemes against other users. Some users do this and use it for that. Which is the problem. Some users. You're blaming the whole for the fault of the part. The only way to do this is by not actually knowing what happens there. Therefore, it is not beyond >.< for assuming you have no idea what you're talking about, because you blame the actions of the few as the course of the many.
You could just choose to ignore it (not you specifically, I just mean the people that start threads like these who don't know heads from tails) and go on your daily life instead of indulging some masturbatory impulse to stir the pot and put and ear to a cup on the floor in hopes to hear some stirring on the floor below. There are far easier, more recreational and less detrimental methods of feeding a masturbatory impulse and more often than not they won't have a detrimental effect on anyone else in the process.
Here's the thing that I've been saying but I'll say it again: people who do skirt the rules, take "drama" in the gutter outside of it, and generally do unkind things to the forums are penalized for it. Whether the result of this is a bunch of people talking over AIM, making a thread on 4chan, starting a forum called "forums.lets-make-fun-of-mtgs-members.com," or posting in the gutter is irrelevant because they're separate entities from the MTGS forums but can bring undesirable things to the forums.
It really doesn't, though. If I made an internet forum called "The Gutter" where we just talked about what, for example, Mamelon or some other poster on MTGS did, then came on here and made a SYM thread that said, "People with the word Melon in their usernames smell bad lol" you'd still be inciced and eventually you may even trace it back to "forums.thegutter.com." I don't see the difference and, considering you don't use the gutter, neither should you.
TLDR:
It isn't. In fact, it's been stated across posts across threads on this very same subject, so I'll just reword it so even the *DRAMABARONS who frequent roundabout discussions like these can "get it": U DO BAD U GET IN TRUBLE, LOL KK, bb? This is true of KCW and FLCL as it is your friend and theinfamousbearassassin. But thanks all the same for 3 extremely wordy, extraneous posts that implore the staff and gutter members to do what already occurs.
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If you need to ask then you probably shouldn't go there. Just as a heads up on the topic for you and anyone else with similar questions.
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that's exactly the attitude we dislike: the assumption that you are worthy of the gutter, and the assumption that we are 'a den of trollery'. We just want a place where we can speak our minds without being censored or infracted, and all these noobs come in who incorrectly assume that a thick-skin and a dictionary of swear-words will gain them acceptance. At least once a month we get a 'Flame me' thread from some noob who thinks it is the way to gain acceptance. It might have worked in 2005. Now it just gets you banned.
"My naivete concerning MTGS's organisational structure is not an indication of my general internet experience, nor of my ability to 'handle' whichever potty-words and junior trollery your secret 'naughty people' forum contains."
This sentence is all the indication we need that you don't have the attitude that allows you to fit in.
Why did you assure us that you "could certainly cope with whatever 'horrors' you believe your 'Gutter' could throw at me" if you didn't intend to enter?
Hidden Forum, now stop trying to be funny and stop making yourself look like an idiot.
Flame warning. --Binary
I barely post in the gutter anymore, so don't act like anyone is out to get you. Was your original question about where to find the gutter? I already said it was a hidden forum, so I dont know what more you want.
"(3) Rest assured that I've undoubtedly seen bigger and badder dens of trollery than your beloved 'Gutter', it really isn't going to be that big a deal."
The direct implication of this statement is that seeing the gutter isn't going to be that big a deal, and the only way you are going to see the gutter is if someone tells you how to get in. Why would you ask how to get into the gutter and say that seeing it won't be a big deal if you didn't intend to enter?
In a palace of naught
Wherein may dream
My invisible Queen...
This, basically. It's a group that you have to apply for membership to, and if you're accepted by whoever the guttermods happen to be at the time, you gain access to the forum. Apart from that, it works like any other subforum, except there's no profanity censor in place like there is for the rest of the forum and there are hardly any rules (as long as everything is kept legal). The guttermods have the power to edit your posts in the Gutter or to gutterban you as they see fit (although all of the guttermods at the moment seem to be admins or global mods, so this isn't as relevant).
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3. Give them an infraction for flaming. You ARE a mod remember This logic is completely flawed. Are instances not part of WoW because you can't get into one just by logging on?
Also, by this logic ANY hidden subforum would not follow the site rules, which is not true. Behind the Screen must follow the rules of the site. You NEED to log on to MTGS to get to the Gutter, because ITS PART OF THE SITE. Um.. yes I was. I speak English. It was not made as a legal statement... I am not sure why your so hung up on this. I used it as it means for what it means. Yes, you right, I am. You do not know what "vernacular" means either do you? I do not live in "Law Land."
Umm. No. What I did after that was get my Gimmicks in. Lurked for about a month or two. Then, I logged on with all my gimmicks on the same computer (something I did not do until basically just then. Check the logs my gimmick did not have my IP for over a year, until I got onto the Gutter) so that the mod's could find me and Gban me, because I had enough. Started having my gimmicks post reasons for why the Gutter should not exists. Then I told everyone I had Gimmicks all over the Gutter, and was Gbanned. Though, I had to work TWO DAYS to get my gimmicks banned..... Its hard to get Gbanned when you WANT to be.
But your description of events makes me look stupid, so I guess you can believe it your way if you want. You keep making this kinda statement.
Are you going for a Poisoning the well fallacy, or an argumentum ad hominem fallacy. Which is it? Or is it both?
If you wanted to leave the gutter so badly, then why didn't you just leave the group? Saying you were trying to get gutterbanned is 100% false because, if I remember correctly, when you were told you were going to be gutterbanned, you did everything you could to convince the mods to let you stay.
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It took almost 24 hours for me to get Gbanned after I made that above post, check the time and date. I will admit that getting KICKED off was much more fun then sending a Gmod a PM, but I guess the latter would have been faster.
THere are people who have come to Salvation, and NEWS for that matter, for many years. THey have read through the good stuff on each site and they drudge through the bad things written on this site as well. Rumor season is the worst when it comes to utter stupidity. Many who love coming here find their membership in the "Gutter" as an escape to a place where people feel a similar gripe and can express it freely. You don't have to censor yourself or your thoughts, but you do have to have a reason to post because the rules are whatever everyone wants them to be.
People like you, Soron and Cadet, wanted that kind of inclusion but you went about it the wrong way and got yourself banned. You weren't given a reason and that pissed you off. You know what....that's too bad. It isn't a right to belong there....hell, it isn't even a right to belong here. As with any group, it's a priviledge to belong. If you screw that priviledge up then the group has every right to boot you out.....FOREVER. This is the way of life. If you aren't accepted then you find other outlets and places and people that will accept you for who you are. If you aren't accepted, then is it really worth your time to fight it? There are so many arguements out there, it really benefits you in the long run to pick the ones you really think are worth fighting.
People arent' going to like you....accept it and move on. There are many people who don't like me.....I'm too old to care.
/ma lawn.....get off!