I figured I'd bring this up here rather than in the thread itself because it seemed more appropriate. Basically, the rule makes no sense to me and I think the hard line stance and condescending attitude from moderators shows that there's probably a motive at play that isn't being openly stated. I understand that this is a message board and not a democracy, so no one is under any obligation to be fair or even explain themselves, but seriously, why can't you guys be honest about it and tell us the real reason it's not allowed?
If it was just pointless discussion (which encompasses 90% of the threads and posts on that forum) then there wouldn't be a need to take such a firm stance against it. You'd ride it out/ignore like you do the other hundreds of posts a week that are "pointless" and let it slide, but you don't with this. Why? Does it have something to do with the site's revenue and advertisers getting mad if you let posters openly discourage people from buying their product? Is it because of some business relationship with WotC, SCG, or some other company? And if it's one of these then why not just say so openly rather than being rude to people who question your logic when you give a nonsensical explanation?
Anyway, I'll probably get banned/infracted/whatever for this and the thread will be taken down, but I had to get this out there.
There's no point in discussing rotation because you have no way of knowing what the metagame will be like with such a drastic change in the available cardpool. However, if you want to discuss decks without M11 or ZEN block, you're free to do that in the Budget forum.
It's cool you know what decks will be viable after rotation when no one else does. Personally, I'd use precognition for something more useful, like lottery tickets.
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There's no point in discussing rotation because you have no way of knowing what the metagame will be like with such a drastic change in the available cardpool. However, if you want to discuss decks without M11 or ZEN block, you're free to do that in the Budget forum.
Okay, so why aren't the countless topics I see that are pointless taken down in accordance with that same line of thinking?
I'm assuming you got warned or infracted about rotation talk, which is why you're here, but let me explain why that policy is in effect (as a former mod of the type 2 section for a year and half).
Basically rotation talk is disruptive to current archetype discussion, because spoiled cards have yet to be released and therefore are not playable in a 5K / FNM scenario. When people in an Elves thread are discussing current strategies and someone comes rushing in from the Rumor Mill to say "OMG DID YOU GUYZ SEE THAT ROFELLOS IS GETTING REPRINTED!" it distracts from the topic at hand, which is to say cards that are actually legal in the here and now.
We did talk extensively about making a subforum specifically for rotation talk, though we never came to a consensus on the issue. Generally outside of a vocal few, the majority of Standard posters liked not having their relevant discussions hampered by spoiler theorycrafting.
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I'm assuming you got warned or infracted about rotation talk, which is why you're here, but let me explain why that policy is in effect (as a former mod of the type 2 section for a year and half).
Basically rotation talk is disrupting to current archetype discussion, because spoiled cards have yet to be released and therefore are not playable in a 5K / FNM scenario. When people in an Elves thread are discussing current strategies and someone comes rushing in from the Rumor Mill to say "OMG DID YOU GUYZ SEE THAT ROFELLOS IS GETTING REPRINTED!" it distracts from the topic at hand, which is to say cards that are actually legal in the here and now.
We did talk extensively about making a subforum specifically for rotation talk, though we never came to a consensus on the issue. Generally outside of a vocal few, the majority of Standard posters liked not having their relevant discussions hampered by spoiler theorycrafting.
I haven't been warned, and I'm not angry either, though I am slightly annoyed that the mods feel the need to be sarcastic towards people who question the rules and with good reason. I understand what you and others are saying, but when you talk about things being pointless while allowing 10,000 threads about Cawblade/Valakut I have to wonder what the logic is behind certain decisions.
I think the idea in your last paragraph is a good one and I really can't think of a reason why that subforum wasn't created. The Rumor Mill and Standard are about as far apart in terms of focus as you can get and the inability to even mention rotation leaves a lot of people out of luck. My situation is a good example of that and is the main reason why I take issue with the rule.
I just started playing and really have no interest in dumping a hefty sum of money into cards that I'll only be able to use for a month, and seeing as how I don't know the overall card pool all that well/have an understanding of all the strategies currently in place, I'm in a difficult spot. Add to that the fact that I can't even make a thread just asking about -insert deck- with the condition that I don't want any ZEN cards to be suggested and it's really, really frustrating.
Maybe when you are an older plumber, you'll understand
If redundancy was a major concern of the moderators, then I wouldn't be tripping over birthing pod threads every other time I come here. Relevant to standard? Yes. Excessive and just as annoying as rotation talk? I don't see why not.
I just started playing and really have no interest in dumping a hefty sum of money into cards that I'll only be able to use for a month, and seeing as how I don't know the overall card pool all that well/have an understanding of all the strategies currently in place, I'm in a difficult spot. Add to that the fact that I can't even make a thread just asking about -insert deck- with the condition that I don't want any ZEN cards to be suggested and it's really, really frustrating.
If this is the issue, then the Budget subforum in Standard is exactly what you are looking for.
I haven't been warned, and I'm not angry ether, though I am slightly annoyed that the mods feel the need to be sarcastic towards people who question the rules and with good reason.
Don't take the sarcasm personally, mods work without pay and (sometimes) without respect, so occasionally the frustration seeps through. The curt tone in a locked message might be a result of that.
Quote from YoungerPlumber »
I just started playing and really have no interest in dumping a hefty sum of money into cards that I'll only be able to use for a month, and seeing as how I don't know the overall card pool all that well/have an understanding of all the strategies currently in place, I'm a difficult spot. Add to that the fact that I can't even make a thread just asking about -insert deck- with the condition that I don't want any ZEN cards to be suggested and it's really, really frustrating.
You currently have two options:
1) See what decks are doing good in Scars block, since typically block decks become tier 1 after a major fall rotation, and stock up on those cards.
2) Post a thread in the Rumor Mill (not sure what section, but there has to be a place) asking for rotation advice.
I agree that we should have an option #3, which is a subforum in the Type 2 section for rotation talk, as the userbase should have as many outlets for discussion as possible. However it never got done under my watch because it was never a super high priority in the grand scheme of maintaining the site, so I can understand if it never comes to fruition (basically people only raise a fuss for 3-4 weeks before each rotation then the problem dies down until the next set).
2) Post a thread in the Rumor Mill (not sure what section, but there has to be a place) asking for rotation advice.
That sort of discussion is one of the main purposes of the New Card Discussion subforum, as that's the one part of the forums geared towards discussing new cards/spoilers as they are found/given. Even though we know very few cards from Innistrad that is still the best location to discuss potential future metagames at the moment.
Don't take the sarcasm personally, mods work without pay and (sometimes) without respect, so occasionally the frustration seeps through. The curt tone in a locked message might be a result of that.
You currently have two options:
1) See what decks are doing good in Scars block, since typically block decks become tier 1 after a major fall rotation, and stock up on those cards.
2) Post a thread in the Rumor Mill (not sure what section, but there has to be a place) asking for rotation advice.
I agree that we should have an option #3, which is a subforum in the Type 2 section for rotation talk, as the userbase should have as many outlets for discussion as possible. However it never got done under my watch because it was never a super high priority in the grand scheme of maintaining the site, so I can understand if it never comes to fruition (basically people only raise a fuss for 3-4 weeks before each rotation then the problem dies down until the next set).
That makes sense. I've already been doing #1 to the best of my ability and I suppose I'll just wait it out. Thank you for all of your responses.
But the new rule says none period, and I'm pretty sure it applies to the budget forum aswell.
Well you obviously don't go into the Budget subforum screaming "I'm building for teh rotationz help me!!!!11". Just state that you can't afford ZEN/whatever cards. Subtle evasion FTW.
I figured I'd bring this up here rather than in the thread itself because it seemed more appropriate. Basically, the rule makes no sense to me and I think the hard line stance and condescending attitude from moderators shows that there's probably a motive at play that isn't being openly stated. I understand that this is a message board and not a democracy, so no one is under any obligation to be fair or even explain themselves, but seriously, why can't you guys be honest about it and tell us the real reason it's not allowed?
Can you give me a reason why it SHOULD be allowed?
I haven't been warned, and I'm not angry either, though I am slightly annoyed that the mods feel the need to be sarcastic towards people who question the rules and with good reason.
I'm curious as to all this insight you seem to have on the temperment of our moderators here. Especially since you have only, what? 15 posts? 3 of which you got on this thread. It hardly seems like you have been here long enough to get an understanding of "ALL" of the mods here. You said you were not warned or infracted, so then I can't begin to fathom where all this hate for our mods is comming from. Nor does it matter, you obviouslly have something against them or you wouldn't have posted this rediculous thread, about something so equally understood among the members of MTGS. I have not heard anyone else complain about not using rotation, and we do have forumns for exactly what your talking about. Just look a little harder and im sure you'll find them. We even have a "search" option.
I just started playing and really have no interest in dumping a hefty sum of money into cards that I'll only be able to use for a month, and seeing as how I don't know the overall card pool all that well/have an understanding of all the strategies currently in place, I'm in a difficult spot. Add to that the fact that I can't even make a thread just asking about -insert deck- with the condition that I don't want any ZEN cards to be suggested and it's really, really frustrating.
If you're imposing extra limitations on your own deck building, then you're not really building a Standard deck at all, which is why such discussion doesn't belong in the Standard forums. You may want to try the Block Constructed forum, the New Card Discussion subforum, or the Casual Magic forum. I realize that none of those are perfect for what you want, and I'd support Clock King's suggestion of a Post-rotation subforum in Standard.
I'm curious as to all this insight you seem to have on the temperment of our moderators here. Especially since you have only, what? 15 posts? 3 of which you got on this thread. It hardly seems like you have been here long enough to get an understanding of "ALL" of the mods here. You said you were not warned or infracted, so then I can't begin to fathom where all this hate for our mods is comming from. Nor does it matter, you obviouslly have something against them or you wouldn't have posted this rediculous thread, about something so equally understood among the members of MTGS. I have not heard anyone else complain about not using rotation, and we do have forumns for exactly what your talking about. Just look a little harder and im sure you'll find them. We even have a "search" option.
Is it really necessary for me to post "some mods" before every single post in order to avoid getting slammed? Seriously, if you read the entirety of the thread it's pretty obvious who I was referencing with my comments seeing as how I pointed to a particular thread. Also, I didn't know you had to post to read forum posts, thanks for tipping me off on that one.
Seriously, why are you so high strung and defensive? I made this thread because I had an issue, it was resolved and I said thank you, why can't it just end there?
Discussing cards that wont be legal for a while is stupid. If you want to do that make a deck thread in the rumor mill. There is a place for everything here.
The rule has been used to quash deck design that focuses on cards that will still be in standard after rotation, with out trying to guess what cards may be in the next block. I think that has really stretched the logic of the discussion ban. Sometimes forcing yourself to find solutions with a narrower restriction can help identify strategies that get ignored because the block being rotated out offers obvious and proven strategies to build on instead.
I think it's constructive to acknowledge that certain dominant strategies will be rotating out soon, so that players can start to look for other strategies that will be viable with the cards that we know will exist in the post rotation format. Some of those strategies may be bolstered by future cards, some may not, but that's a moot point. I don't recall there being any rule about Standard deck design that requires you to use at least one card from every expansion in the block!
When we only know a 1/4 of a set, and you take 1-2 of the new cards and slot them into a deck and think your preparing for a new meta, your wrong. We don't know the whole set, we don't know what the meta will look like, and as such, there is very little reason to even discuss it until we actually have some of this information.
I think it's constructive to acknowledge that certain dominant strategies will be rotating out soon, so that players can start to look for other strategies that will be viable with the cards that we know will exist in the post rotation format. Some of those strategies may be bolstered by future cards, some may not, but that's a moot point.
It's good to know that you can see all the viable decks post-rotation, especially when we don't know over 200 cards in Innistrad.
Have fun getting top 8 at FNM or a PTQ with your post-rotation deck.
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If it was just pointless discussion (which encompasses 90% of the threads and posts on that forum) then there wouldn't be a need to take such a firm stance against it. You'd ride it out/ignore like you do the other hundreds of posts a week that are "pointless" and let it slide, but you don't with this. Why? Does it have something to do with the site's revenue and advertisers getting mad if you let posters openly discourage people from buying their product? Is it because of some business relationship with WotC, SCG, or some other company? And if it's one of these then why not just say so openly rather than being rude to people who question your logic when you give a nonsensical explanation?
Anyway, I'll probably get banned/infracted/whatever for this and the thread will be taken down, but I had to get this out there.
There's no point in discussing rotation because you have no way of knowing what the metagame will be like with such a drastic change in the available cardpool. However, if you want to discuss decks without M11 or ZEN block, you're free to do that in the Budget forum.
There isn't any point to the discussion... Standard players play Standard, not Guess-the-Future or Plan-Ahead.
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Okay, so why aren't the countless topics I see that are pointless taken down in accordance with that same line of thinking?
I'm assuming you got warned or infracted about rotation talk, which is why you're here, but let me explain why that policy is in effect (as a former mod of the type 2 section for a year and half).
Basically rotation talk is disruptive to current archetype discussion, because spoiled cards have yet to be released and therefore are not playable in a 5K / FNM scenario. When people in an Elves thread are discussing current strategies and someone comes rushing in from the Rumor Mill to say "OMG DID YOU GUYZ SEE THAT ROFELLOS IS GETTING REPRINTED!" it distracts from the topic at hand, which is to say cards that are actually legal in the here and now.
We did talk extensively about making a subforum specifically for rotation talk, though we never came to a consensus on the issue. Generally outside of a vocal few, the majority of Standard posters liked not having their relevant discussions hampered by spoiler theorycrafting.
Which countless topics are these?
Maybe when you are an older plumber, you'll understand
But then again I don't know what you mean by "pointless." Do you mean someone who's actually looking for help or breaking the Rotation rule?
EDIT: AEIOU's on his 'nathing game tonight.
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About Frox: for nearly 10 years, Frox has been helping women look good and feel great in easy-fit, mix-and-match, and work-to-weekend with just a few pieces by helping them make the right choices when it comes to clothing and accessories.
I haven't been warned, and I'm not angry either, though I am slightly annoyed that the mods feel the need to be sarcastic towards people who question the rules and with good reason. I understand what you and others are saying, but when you talk about things being pointless while allowing 10,000 threads about Cawblade/Valakut I have to wonder what the logic is behind certain decisions.
I think the idea in your last paragraph is a good one and I really can't think of a reason why that subforum wasn't created. The Rumor Mill and Standard are about as far apart in terms of focus as you can get and the inability to even mention rotation leaves a lot of people out of luck. My situation is a good example of that and is the main reason why I take issue with the rule.
I just started playing and really have no interest in dumping a hefty sum of money into cards that I'll only be able to use for a month, and seeing as how I don't know the overall card pool all that well/have an understanding of all the strategies currently in place, I'm in a difficult spot. Add to that the fact that I can't even make a thread just asking about -insert deck- with the condition that I don't want any ZEN cards to be suggested and it's really, really frustrating.
If redundancy was a major concern of the moderators, then I wouldn't be tripping over birthing pod threads every other time I come here. Relevant to standard? Yes. Excessive and just as annoying as rotation talk? I don't see why not.
Double-post merged.
If this is the issue, then the Budget subforum in Standard is exactly what you are looking for.
Don't take the sarcasm personally, mods work without pay and (sometimes) without respect, so occasionally the frustration seeps through. The curt tone in a locked message might be a result of that.
You currently have two options:
1) See what decks are doing good in Scars block, since typically block decks become tier 1 after a major fall rotation, and stock up on those cards.
2) Post a thread in the Rumor Mill (not sure what section, but there has to be a place) asking for rotation advice.
I agree that we should have an option #3, which is a subforum in the Type 2 section for rotation talk, as the userbase should have as many outlets for discussion as possible. However it never got done under my watch because it was never a super high priority in the grand scheme of maintaining the site, so I can understand if it never comes to fruition (basically people only raise a fuss for 3-4 weeks before each rotation then the problem dies down until the next set).
That sort of discussion is one of the main purposes of the New Card Discussion subforum, as that's the one part of the forums geared towards discussing new cards/spoilers as they are found/given. Even though we know very few cards from Innistrad that is still the best location to discuss potential future metagames at the moment.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
But the new rule says none period, and I'm pretty sure it applies to the budget forum aswell.
That makes sense. I've already been doing #1 to the best of my ability and I suppose I'll just wait it out. Thank you for all of your responses.
Double-post merged.
Well you obviously don't go into the Budget subforum screaming "I'm building for teh rotationz help me!!!!11". Just state that you can't afford ZEN/whatever cards. Subtle evasion FTW.
Can you give me a reason why it SHOULD be allowed?
I'm curious as to all this insight you seem to have on the temperment of our moderators here. Especially since you have only, what? 15 posts? 3 of which you got on this thread. It hardly seems like you have been here long enough to get an understanding of "ALL" of the mods here. You said you were not warned or infracted, so then I can't begin to fathom where all this hate for our mods is comming from. Nor does it matter, you obviouslly have something against them or you wouldn't have posted this rediculous thread, about something so equally understood among the members of MTGS. I have not heard anyone else complain about not using rotation, and we do have forumns for exactly what your talking about. Just look a little harder and im sure you'll find them. We even have a "search" option.
If you're imposing extra limitations on your own deck building, then you're not really building a Standard deck at all, which is why such discussion doesn't belong in the Standard forums. You may want to try the Block Constructed forum, the New Card Discussion subforum, or the Casual Magic forum. I realize that none of those are perfect for what you want, and I'd support Clock King's suggestion of a Post-rotation subforum in Standard.
Is it really necessary for me to post "some mods" before every single post in order to avoid getting slammed? Seriously, if you read the entirety of the thread it's pretty obvious who I was referencing with my comments seeing as how I pointed to a particular thread. Also, I didn't know you had to post to read forum posts, thanks for tipping me off on that one.
Seriously, why are you so high strung and defensive? I made this thread because I had an issue, it was resolved and I said thank you, why can't it just end there?
LOL
I think it's constructive to acknowledge that certain dominant strategies will be rotating out soon, so that players can start to look for other strategies that will be viable with the cards that we know will exist in the post rotation format. Some of those strategies may be bolstered by future cards, some may not, but that's a moot point. I don't recall there being any rule about Standard deck design that requires you to use at least one card from every expansion in the block!
It's good to know that you can see all the viable decks post-rotation, especially when we don't know over 200 cards in Innistrad.
Have fun getting top 8 at FNM or a PTQ with your post-rotation deck.