Just an honest question, and I have several individuals in mind. If this is appropriate, I will name usernames... Otherwise, I will probably just stop using this site altogether and advise every single person I know to do so as well...
Because you know, having an avatar that says "**** MTGS" and having a signature that says that the power that be oppress freedom of speech is TOTALLY going to get you taken seriously.
probably not... the a lot mods here are elitist and closes and threads that threaten that. I completely agree with you though. They really need to take the moderation down a notch.
If you have a problem with an individual moderator, please forward that concern to an Administrator. If you want to complain about the moderation in general, I think there might be a thread or two around here where that's currently taking place.
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"...because without beer, things do not seem to go as well."
Because you know, having an avatar that says "**** MTGS" and having a signature that says that the power that be oppress freedom of speech is TOTALLY going to get you taken seriously.
Oh, I don't know. If reasonable and polite discourse can't be initiated by someone so impartial, by whom can it be started? I do however, see no reason to publicly string up the volunteers who moderate this forum, as personal complaints can usually be lodged with them or their associates.
I don't find anything worth complaining about either, frankly. Maybe if I ceased behaving like a rational human being and began acting like a blithering idiot, I would assent with "Mark Rosewater", who I suspect is too young to actually remember when Slayer was relevant, despite the flashing album avatar.
If you have a problem with an individual moderator, please forward that concern to an Administrator. If you want to complain about the moderation in general, I think there might be a thread or two around here where that's currently taking place.
If I'm correct, it's not moderation in general but there maybe 5 moderators that are hated by most of the people who do hate moderators. They're just the ones you see the most. Kinda like if you ave 100 people and 10 of them are trolls you'll notice the 10 trolls more. We notice those 5-6 mods more. I bet its always the same ones. There's, honestly, about 4 mods I fin shouldn't be mods but the rest seem fine.
MTGS is a bad place where the powers that be oppress free speech.
I'm not sure what "free speech" rights you believe you have while using a server that is someone else's private property, but I can assure you that such rights do not exist.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
In fact, under the laws of the US, you don't have free speech at all =3 Go violently insult the president. Suddenly, not so free.
If you dislike or have an issue with a moderator, I have seen the staff here, especially admins ,to be more than their fair share of responsive. They may take a day or two to get back to you, but they do handle things.
Also, I would like to note, them not telling you what you want to hear, and not doing their job, are two very different things.
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Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
Its funny....i have an issue with 2 mods and ive said it before. But, I'll still talk to them and ask things. Its like work, there will be those you hate...but your forced to work together. And as stated before, talk to the Admins. Personally, all 3 (ok theres 4, but he's hidden away running this site), ive had no issues with. They all talk and answer responsibly. If you have an issue, talk to them. If you dont want to, then best of luck to you.
And as Ron White said "If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.......now find someone's life who gives them vodka and have a party"
To put down your idea that you're not free to speak about things- An administrator came in, spoke to you politely, and left, without closing your thread. Might want to change your sig a bit there, mate, as now you're just lying~
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Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
I have very few problems with a couple of the mods here, but it was mainly for me getting slapped with warnings/infractions without even so much as a "hey, this is double posting" or w/e. Know what I did about that? I stopped dealing with the person that was causing me to double-post (long story).
Either way, talk to an admin about it. There is zero reason to belittle anyone just because you dislike them, in public.
I have very few problems with a couple of the mods here, but it was mainly for me getting slapped with warnings/infractions without even so much as a "hey, this is double posting" or w/e. Know what I did about that? I stopped dealing with the person that was causing me to double-post (long story).
Either way, talk to an admin about it. There is zero reason to belittle anyone just because you dislike them, in public.
/barn and also, using censored words doesnt make you look mature and look like you should be taken seriously.....it makes you look like a 12 year old that isnt getting his/her way.
In fact, under the laws of the US, you don't have free speech at all =3 Go violently insult the president. Suddenly, not so free.
emphasis mine
..."at all"? Did you just manage to skip the entire First Amendment?
That said, the scope for defending your "free speech" on this forum using the First Amendment is very, very limited at best -- note that even under the First Amendment, free speech is subject to plethora of restrictions.
I personally think one of the reasons you see so many posts get locked is because people get the best of thier emotions and spew random stuff onto the board that they either don't really mean, or won't be worried about in about 10 min, so rather than have everyone commenting rationally about an irrational post it makes sense to lock that post.
Note: This got posted randomly in a thread that had nothing to do with prices, nobody was discussing prices, and nobody was getting warned/infracted for discussing prices.
To the mods: Thank you for being complete and total NAZIS.
Discussion of magic cards involves discussing price. Do you somehow get ahold of YOUR packs and cards for $0.00? Because I'm pretty sure the rest of us have to spend money.
The damn reserve list making FoW $100 each, and the ensuing etc, and an average deck costing like $800-$900. To me, that says that PRICE IS A PRETTY ****ING IMPORTANT PART OF MAGIC.
Which is a mute point anyways, because nothing is going to change. I'll keep getting pissed that you feel the need to tell people what they're allowed to talk about, which is censorship about things that DON'T ****ING NEED TO BE CENSORED, and nothing will happen.
I'm so glad that I'll never have to meet a single one of you in real life. Pretty sure I'd just confirm that you're a waste of oxygen. Because really? You guys need the power trip that desperately? WOW.
Btw, don't threaten me with banning/booting/suspension. Do whatever you feel compelled to do. Just know that it doesn't affect me. I'll find a way back on here. So many public computers that provide 100% anonymity. I'm just not going to sit here and watch your bold red letters and keep quiet. Enjoy.
Note that this user had also not been warned or infracted for anything he's even ranting about.
Anyone with legitimate criticism has pretty much the whole Community Issues and Helpdesks at thier disposal. Changes have been made based on community feedback.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Cardfather, that's obviously just an oversight. I have been given spam/troll warnings for far less.
My only problem is that there's really no way you can rationalize with the mod that gave you the warning. You have to go to another (who probably won't take your complaint seriously) and most people, myself included, are usually too lazy to do so.
Cardfather, that's obviously just an oversight. I have been given spam/troll warnings for far less.
My only problem is that there's really no way you can rationalize with the mod that gave you the warning. You have to go to another (who probably won't take your complaint seriously) and most people, myself included, are usually too lazy to do so.
Oversight on who's part? Do you think he was posting in the wrong forum or something? Either way its not intelligent conversation, so it deserves lock/infraction.
A rational post that says "hey guys discussing prices is important part of MTG, and I think we should be able to do it outside of market street for reasons 1, 2 and 3." is a rational post, unclouded by emotions, and one that people will actually listen to. In fact we have given in to the community in this issue establishing price threads in several of the major 'game' forums.
Calling mods nazis for enforcing the forum rules isn't going to get any of them to listen to you.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Which, as staff, I prefer anyhow, as it releases me from any kind of accusation of conflict of interest or self-serving stubborness as well as getting a 'second opinion' up ins;
(who probably won't take your complaint seriously)
Probably, eh? Even when someone is burning up my inbox, I try to keep it professional, & I hold my fellow staff members to that standard. If this defeatist attitude has a basis in something real, though, that lends itself more direct addressing.
Yea. I just recently got a troll infraction for posting my opinion in the debate section. While I could maybe accepted a spam infraction because it was SLIGHTLY off topic, I was told it was "deliberate trolling" or something to that effect.
I posted in the mods helpdesk and it has yet to be addressed.
Dissatisfied with that, you can still escalate the issue. Given your track record, & more importantly the context of the post you are referring to, my response to you would be: What you posted was a derail at best, & trolling at worst. Staff have no way to determine intent & must use their best judgment. Given the evidence at hand (your post history, the context of the thread & its location), I believe an infraction for trolling was appropriate.
fzian - Well, this person's version of free speech appears to be "Say whatever I want, whenever I want, about whoever I want" which, honestly, we don't have the freedom to do. If I go into a grocery store, and tell a female clerk who is getting on my nerves "I swear to god, if you don't finish faster, I'm going to beat the hell out of you!" I do get in trouble for that. One could argue that I still have the ability to say it, therefor being free, I just have to also accept the consequences for my actions, or in this case, words.
Merfolk - You were addressed rather kindly by myself, someone else, and the mod in question. It's good to keep in mind, the mods can't see into your brain, they only have face value to work with.
@ Thread - The mods just recently had the community come in, complain about a Warning someone got, and were convinced to reverse it. But, right, they never listen to us <<
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Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
Cardfather, that's obviously just an oversight. I have been given spam/troll warnings for far less.
My only problem is that there's really no way you can rationalize with the mod that gave you the warning. You have to go to another (who probably won't take your complaint seriously) and most people, myself included, are usually too lazy to do so.
That's not entirely true and, if it is, one of two things:
1. Maybe you are wrong. Many posters, who clearly have no issues with entitlement or rules interpretation, vehemently assert that they broke no rule or that what they did was perfectly okay.
One example was a user who responded to a thread with a one-word, context/contentless, non-additive post. I issued the user a warning, spelling out, "Please add substantive posts to discussion when making new posts." and a clarification why that person's post was not acceptable. I got back a several paragraph-long response saying how subjective and overzealous moderation on MTGS is, nowhere in which did the user indicate that there was the option of simply... not responding to the thread if s/he had nothing else of value to say.
While it is possible that the non-robot staff of MTGS has actually wronged you in some way over the course of moderation, sometimes it's best to take stock of what you've done as a user in that situation and see it from the perspective of someone looking at the whole picture. If the moderators of MTGS can be faulty, it is equally probably that you, too can be faulty.
2. Have you tried engaging either staff member in a dialog? If they did not respond or take you seriously, have you tried moving up the chain of command? If it is "not worth it" and you are "too lazy" to resolve the issue, why should they?
I've been on a bit of a run going on tangents about the importance of communication on this forum, from users and staff alike. It's important that users communicate well and clearly, but it's even more important that the staff that helps operate this site communicate to users about how and why they are operating the site the way they do, including through the use of moderation against a user. If a staff member cannot explain why you're receiving a moderating action (bear in mind, warnings and infractions are very different things, as warnings are reminders, while infractions are actually punitive), that action shouldn't stand and should be scrutinized. Furthermore, if a staff member higher up the chain cannot defend that action (which should be difficult, because that staff member isn't the one who issued the action and, therefore, can't really speak for that moderator), they should be willing to remove it.
Staff here is entirely volunteer and the MTGS userbase does a pretty good job of checking and balancing staff.
Mark Rosewater, if you have a problem with a moderator, take your issue up with that staff member. If you don't feel like that staff member is giving you a reasonable response, take it up with an administrator. But also, before doing this, ask yourself an important question: are you being an entitled brat? Are you being overly emotional on a non-issue? Are you taking personally something that is entirely not personal? Is the issue you're having spelled out clearly in the rules as a violation of those rules? Organize your thoughts and be clear and concise when you make your case. Bring specific examples to the table, rather than broad assertions. Don't use incendiary language, as this weakens your argument and makes you look like the aforementioned spoiled child. Be an adult and expect to be treated like an adult (and bear this in mind even if you aren't yet an adult; to earn respect, you must first be respectful).
fzian - Well, this person's version of free speech appears to be "Say whatever I want, whenever I want, about whoever I want" which, honestly, we don't have the freedom to do. If I go into a grocery store, and tell a female clerk who is getting on my nerves "I swear to god, if you don't finish faster, I'm going to beat the hell out of you!" I do get in trouble for that. One could argue that I still have the ability to say it, therefor being free, I just have to also accept the consequences for my actions, or in this case, words.
Merfolk - You were addressed rather kindly by myself, someone else, and the mod in question. It's good to keep in mind, the mods can't see into your brain, they only have face value to work with.
@ Thread - The mods just recently had the community come in, complain about a Warning someone got, and were convinced to reverse it. But, right, they never listen to us <<
right last I checked I got a response from you and another member, not the BS, if I wanted your opinion about it I would have posted on your help desk, but you don't have one. Thank you though for letting me know he responded.
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ib4 thread lock and possibly some infraction
Trade Thread
Oh, I don't know. If reasonable and polite discourse can't be initiated by someone so impartial, by whom can it be started? I do however, see no reason to publicly string up the volunteers who moderate this forum, as personal complaints can usually be lodged with them or their associates.
I don't find anything worth complaining about either, frankly. Maybe if I ceased behaving like a rational human being and began acting like a blithering idiot, I would assent with "Mark Rosewater", who I suspect is too young to actually remember when Slayer was relevant, despite the flashing album avatar.
If I'm correct, it's not moderation in general but there maybe 5 moderators that are hated by most of the people who do hate moderators. They're just the ones you see the most. Kinda like if you ave 100 people and 10 of them are trolls you'll notice the 10 trolls more. We notice those 5-6 mods more. I bet its always the same ones. There's, honestly, about 4 mods I fin shouldn't be mods but the rest seem fine.
If you have a legitimate complaint about those four moderators, I recommend you send that complaint to the Adminstrators.
Please use card tags when you're asking a question about specific cards: [c]Serra Angel[/c] -> Serra Angel.
I'm not sure what "free speech" rights you believe you have while using a server that is someone else's private property, but I can assure you that such rights do not exist.
If you dislike or have an issue with a moderator, I have seen the staff here, especially admins ,to be more than their fair share of responsive. They may take a day or two to get back to you, but they do handle things.
Also, I would like to note, them not telling you what you want to hear, and not doing their job, are two very different things.
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
And I don't understand why people need there complaints to be publicly known, why can't you just discuss it between the admins?
LOL
And as Ron White said "If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.......now find someone's life who gives them vodka and have a party"
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyDone by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=345670
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyEither way, talk to an admin about it. There is zero reason to belittle anyone just because you dislike them, in public.
/barn and also, using censored words doesnt make you look mature and look like you should be taken seriously.....it makes you look like a 12 year old that isnt getting his/her way.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicyemphasis mine
..."at all"? Did you just manage to skip the entire First Amendment?
That said, the scope for defending your "free speech" on this forum using the First Amendment is very, very limited at best -- note that even under the First Amendment, free speech is subject to plethora of restrictions.
Note: This got posted randomly in a thread that had nothing to do with prices, nobody was discussing prices, and nobody was getting warned/infracted for discussing prices.
To the mods: Thank you for being complete and total NAZIS.
Discussion of magic cards involves discussing price. Do you somehow get ahold of YOUR packs and cards for $0.00? Because I'm pretty sure the rest of us have to spend money.
The damn reserve list making FoW $100 each, and the ensuing etc, and an average deck costing like $800-$900. To me, that says that PRICE IS A PRETTY ****ING IMPORTANT PART OF MAGIC.
Which is a mute point anyways, because nothing is going to change. I'll keep getting pissed that you feel the need to tell people what they're allowed to talk about, which is censorship about things that DON'T ****ING NEED TO BE CENSORED, and nothing will happen.
I'm so glad that I'll never have to meet a single one of you in real life. Pretty sure I'd just confirm that you're a waste of oxygen. Because really? You guys need the power trip that desperately? WOW.
Btw, don't threaten me with banning/booting/suspension. Do whatever you feel compelled to do. Just know that it doesn't affect me. I'll find a way back on here. So many public computers that provide 100% anonymity. I'm just not going to sit here and watch your bold red letters and keep quiet. Enjoy.
Note that this user had also not been warned or infracted for anything he's even ranting about.
Anyone with legitimate criticism has pretty much the whole Community Issues and Helpdesks at thier disposal. Changes have been made based on community feedback.
My only problem is that there's really no way you can rationalize with the mod that gave you the warning. You have to go to another (who probably won't take your complaint seriously) and most people, myself included, are usually too lazy to do so.
Oversight on who's part? Do you think he was posting in the wrong forum or something? Either way its not intelligent conversation, so it deserves lock/infraction.
A rational post that says "hey guys discussing prices is important part of MTG, and I think we should be able to do it outside of market street for reasons 1, 2 and 3." is a rational post, unclouded by emotions, and one that people will actually listen to. In fact we have given in to the community in this issue establishing price threads in several of the major 'game' forums.
Calling mods nazis for enforcing the forum rules isn't going to get any of them to listen to you.
I posted in the mods helpdesk and it has yet to be addressed.
But you received two replies, one from the mod in question.
Dissatisfied with that, you can still escalate the issue. Given your track record, & more importantly the context of the post you are referring to, my response to you would be: What you posted was a derail at best, & trolling at worst. Staff have no way to determine intent & must use their best judgment. Given the evidence at hand (your post history, the context of the thread & its location), I believe an infraction for trolling was appropriate.
Merfolk - You were addressed rather kindly by myself, someone else, and the mod in question. It's good to keep in mind, the mods can't see into your brain, they only have face value to work with.
@ Thread - The mods just recently had the community come in, complain about a Warning someone got, and were convinced to reverse it. But, right, they never listen to us <<
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
That's not entirely true and, if it is, one of two things:
1. Maybe you are wrong. Many posters, who clearly have no issues with entitlement or rules interpretation, vehemently assert that they broke no rule or that what they did was perfectly okay.
One example was a user who responded to a thread with a one-word, context/contentless, non-additive post. I issued the user a warning, spelling out, "Please add substantive posts to discussion when making new posts." and a clarification why that person's post was not acceptable. I got back a several paragraph-long response saying how subjective and overzealous moderation on MTGS is, nowhere in which did the user indicate that there was the option of simply... not responding to the thread if s/he had nothing else of value to say.
While it is possible that the non-robot staff of MTGS has actually wronged you in some way over the course of moderation, sometimes it's best to take stock of what you've done as a user in that situation and see it from the perspective of someone looking at the whole picture. If the moderators of MTGS can be faulty, it is equally probably that you, too can be faulty.
2. Have you tried engaging either staff member in a dialog? If they did not respond or take you seriously, have you tried moving up the chain of command? If it is "not worth it" and you are "too lazy" to resolve the issue, why should they?
I've been on a bit of a run going on tangents about the importance of communication on this forum, from users and staff alike. It's important that users communicate well and clearly, but it's even more important that the staff that helps operate this site communicate to users about how and why they are operating the site the way they do, including through the use of moderation against a user. If a staff member cannot explain why you're receiving a moderating action (bear in mind, warnings and infractions are very different things, as warnings are reminders, while infractions are actually punitive), that action shouldn't stand and should be scrutinized. Furthermore, if a staff member higher up the chain cannot defend that action (which should be difficult, because that staff member isn't the one who issued the action and, therefore, can't really speak for that moderator), they should be willing to remove it.
Staff here is entirely volunteer and the MTGS userbase does a pretty good job of checking and balancing staff.
Mark Rosewater, if you have a problem with a moderator, take your issue up with that staff member. If you don't feel like that staff member is giving you a reasonable response, take it up with an administrator. But also, before doing this, ask yourself an important question: are you being an entitled brat? Are you being overly emotional on a non-issue? Are you taking personally something that is entirely not personal? Is the issue you're having spelled out clearly in the rules as a violation of those rules? Organize your thoughts and be clear and concise when you make your case. Bring specific examples to the table, rather than broad assertions. Don't use incendiary language, as this weakens your argument and makes you look like the aforementioned spoiled child. Be an adult and expect to be treated like an adult (and bear this in mind even if you aren't yet an adult; to earn respect, you must first be respectful).
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right last I checked I got a response from you and another member, not the BS, if I wanted your opinion about it I would have posted on your help desk, but you don't have one. Thank you though for letting me know he responded.