Having the BBS system enforce it is not an option. Making it the rule 'soft' like just 'once a day' is messy as it becomes awkward to enforce and there are several issues with anything involving time zones.
fnord's 23-hour rule seems like the greatest solution by far.
if the 23 hour rule is fine then the current 24 hour one is pretty much a no brainer to keep? Seriously its not hard to deal with 24 hours. Lets say i update at 4pm... Ok I update at 4pm the next day, and the next day, and so forth. Prioritize your time, learn time management, and hell PCs have ways to post reminders for you. its NOT hard and this discussion is making it seam like its a pain in the ass when its really not at all. Rule shouldnt be changed cause people in general are unable to wait an hour or in most cases here it seams to be 5 mins.
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Worst case scenario, you get a few minutes later and then can't bump it for an entire day. OMG!!! The world is going to end!!!
Seriously? This is a major problem?
for the record this issue doesnt affect me either way, but i dont know why you need tombe so hostile about it.
obviously this isnt a major problem to users(and if it is they probably need to get a mental examination) but it is something that some users would like to see changed. they obviously enjoy the site enough to use it regularly so ot isnt like they are saying the site is crap, they just want to improve it, they want to make it into something better in their eyes.
why on earth would you have a problem with this?
as for my two cents on the issue, changing the rules to a hardlined 23 hour bump period seems like the best route, almost all people operate on a 24 hour cycle and therefore giving them an hour grace allows for them to keep it bumped every day, as opposed to the 24 hour a day cycle which puts people on a 24 hour+ cycle.
as should be obvious above i dont actually think this os something to start a war over, but i do think it is a rule that could be improved.
as for my two cents on the issue, changing the rules to a hardlined 23 hour bump period seems like the best route, almost all people operate on a 24 hour cycle and therefore giving them an hour grace allows for them to keep it bumped every day, as opposed to the 24 hour a day cycle which puts people on a 24 hour+ cycle.
I agree this might actually be a solid idea; people tend to not bump precisely on the 24th hour mark, so that pushes the time a person would be allowed to bump further and further up the clock to the point where they're essentially missing the period they're <asleep, at work, in school, etc> and default to a later time in each iteration.
I know I have missed the 24-hour mark and come up short at points in the past. Moving the clocks an hour back just to keep people in a guaranteed "once a day" option might be worth looking at.
Also, to subvert confusion, I don't moderate in the primary trading sections of Market Street. I'm saying this as a person who has sold cards on the forum and will likely sell again at some point in the future. (I also think the mods there do a great job and that there is a lot of and a lot of complicated work that gets done there)
...but it is something that some users would like to see changed. they obviously enjoy the site enough to use it regularly so ot isnt like they are saying the site is crap, they just want to improve it, they want to make it into something better in their eyes.
why on earth would you have a problem with this?
Which is all well and good, and fine. And I don't. But if they change it to twenty three hours, math gets involved. And math inevitably requires MORE attention and more mistakes get made. Because, given the opportunity, people will start bumping their threads every 23 hours instead of every twenty-four. And then the Mods are going to have to look at their bumps from every day and make sure that they're not violating the rules.
When it's every 24 hours, you simply need to ask yourself, "Is this later or equal to yesterday?" Yes, all good. No, infraction.
When it's every 23 hours, you have to say, "Okay, less than 24. How much less?" And then time zones are (apparently) an issue (I can't see how, but I'll go with what people are saying, and accept that it is). Then, people make mistakes.
And, if people get the opportunity to bump their lists back up every 23, I can't imagine that they really will wait for 24. (If they were, they wouldn't be complaining.) Then, next thing you know, people will say, "Why can't we make it 22 hours?"
When it's every 24 hours, you simply need to ask yourself, "Is this later or equal to yesterday?" Yes, all good. No, infraction.
The problem with this binary operation is if your clock is out of sync and you believe you are on time but the time on the server says otherwise.
Yes it is error prone. Is it the end of the world? No. I would just like to be able to bump at say 8am-ish every day without looking at the clock and worrying about getting an infraction for being 2 minutes early when I am clearly following the spirit of the rule.
Seems to make it easier on everyone so you don't have to set the bump alarm.
I mean seriously...are ALL the clocks in your house exactly synchronized? I get about a minute difference depending on which clock I look at due to the fact that I cannot calibrate at the second level on these digital clocks.
When it's every 23 hours, you have to say, "Okay, less than 24. How much less?" And then time zones are (apparently) an issue (I can't see how, but I'll go with what people are saying, and accept that it is). Then, people make mistakes.
Time zones are an issue for the "once per day" rule some people were suggesting. The 23 hour rule is much easier, and I'm pretty sure most people can subtract 1 without making a mistake. Anyway, if a mod does make a mistake, infractions are easy enough to reverse.
And, if people get the opportunity to bump their lists back up every 23, I can't imagine that they really will wait for 24. (If they were, they wouldn't be complaining.) Then, next thing you know, people will say, "Why can't we make it 22 hours?"
It's a pile of sand.
22 hours doesn't improve things. 23 hours does because it allows people to post at the same time every day. This is not a slippery slope.
I mean seriously...are ALL the clocks in your house exactly synchronized? I get about a minute difference depending on which clock I look at due to the fact that I cannot calibrate at the second level on these digital clocks.
No. But thankfully, there is a clock in my computer. Which is what I use to post on the internetz. So, I can always be sure to use the same one. It's almost too convenient.
I just got infracted for 5 minutes short of 24 hours because I figured it was close enough to the same time. It's a ****ing joke in market street. If there was another place with as many traders that I knew of, I'd already be gone. I think the 24 hour rule is fine, as a rule of thumb as the written rule. I don't think they should infract anything more than 22 hours though because at that point, you're bumping the next day and just doing it at a convenient time. It means you don't have to be there at exactly time to bump.
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Generally, warnings are handed out unless you are a repeat offender. I don't want to say "did you learn your lesson?" but mods use warnings as a reminder to keep users in check with the rules and infractions are one step further down that path. Or at least they should be. Regardless, you're not trying to argue that action and I don't want to draw any more attention to debate.
I just got infracted for 5 minutes short of 24 hours because I figured it was close enough to the same time. It's a ****ing joke in market street. If there was another place with as many traders that I knew of, I'd already be gone. I think the 24 hour rule is fine, as a rule of thumb as the written rule. I don't think they should infract anything more than 22 hours though because at that point, you're bumping the next day and just doing it at a convenient time. It means you don't have to be there at exactly time to bump.
you knew the rule was 24 hours so what made you think the 24 hour rule didn't apply to you? you can see the last time you bumbed your thread just by looking at your last bump and checking the time.
one idea, if this helps, would be to see if flood control can be set to 24 hours on MS ofc if you guys have already thought to try the fix this way i apologize.
For everyone who has posted an argument to the effect that "X minutes early shouldn't be infracted; that's just common sense", I'd like to point something out:
I would hope that the staff would be lenient if someone accidentally bumped their thread like a minute early (I almost did that once). Any more than that should be moderated, for reasons already brought up by the staff.
You know, I really don't want to defend the OP in this, but it really doesn't strike me as fair to get slammed so seriously for something that involves a matter of minutes.
I think it would make more sense if the minimum were 23 hours instead of 24. That way you could regularly do it at the same time each day, instead of (if you want to be safe) slightly later each day.
Personally, I don't see a problem with a bump if it is within a few minutes. Sure, if someone happens to catch it leave some nice MOD text as a friendly reminder. If it is more than 10 minutes you are obviously violating the spirit of the rule...but does it really have to be followed to the letter?
It really does make sense that you simply should not be able to bump the thread until the system allows you too, OR that they drop the hard rule of 24 hours and just make it once a day. I don't buy the argument on how much time it would take a moderator to calculate time zone difference. If you see a guy bump his thread and the last time he did it was the day before, let it go and everyone is merry and happy.
I just got infracted for 5 minutes short of 24 hours because I figured it was close enough to the same time. It's a ****ing joke in market street. If there was another place with as many traders that I knew of, I'd already be gone. I think the 24 hour rule is fine, as a rule of thumb as the written rule. I don't think they should infract anything more than 22 hours though because at that point, you're bumping the next day and just doing it at a convenient time. It means you don't have to be there at exactly time to bump.
Seven different users have posted arguments for seven different cutoffs where it's "logical" or "obvious" that the rule should not be enforced. One user says anything over a minute should be infractable. Another says anything over 2 hours. Others take various times in the middle.
My point is, what is obvious and logical to you is not necessarily obvious and logical to any other user. Someone is going to disagree with every rule, and nobody is going to agree with every rule. All of these are ultimately arbitrary time cutoffs. There are arguments that can be made in favor any cutoff (as shown above). At the end of the day, a 24 hour rule is the most obvious (since everyone on Earth experiences a 24 hour day) and the easiest to enforce.
you knew the rule was 24 hours so what made you think the 24 hour rule didn't apply to you? you can see the last time you bumbed your thread just by looking at your last bump and checking the time.
It's not that I thought it didn't apply. It's when I had the convenient moment to post. At the end of the day, we are effectively the customers of this site. Without the community, this site doesn't exist. Not allowing any room for variation with something like this just frustrates people and makes everyone involved look bad.
For everyone who has posted an argument to the effect that "X minutes early shouldn't be infracted; that's just common sense", I'd like to point something out:
Seven different users have posted arguments for seven different cutoffs where it's "logical" or "obvious" that the rule should not be enforced. One user says anything over a minute should be infractable. Another says anything over 2 hours. Others take various times in the middle.
My point is, what is obvious and logical to you is not necessarily obvious and logical to any other user. Someone is going to disagree with every rule, and nobody is going to agree with every rule. All of these are ultimately arbitrary time cutoffs. There are arguments that can be made in favor any cutoff (as shown above). At the end of the day, a 24 hour rule is the most obvious (since everyone on Earth experiences a 24 hour day) and the easiest to enforce.
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I did not suggest any sort of cut-off or anything like that. I said that an infraction (a pretty harsh penalty) is not a fair punishment for being a few minutes early with a bump, and that mods should be allowed to use their discretion when deciding whether or not to take action against one.
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I did not suggest any sort of cut-off or anything like that. I said that an infraction (a pretty harsh penalty) is not a fair punishment for being a few minutes early with a bump, and that mods should be allowed to use their discretion when deciding whether or not to take action against one.
That's my point. My use of the phrase "cut-off" was meant to indicate a cut-off point where it's close enough to the actual bump time that an infraction isn't warranted. You said it should be a few minutes. ShadowFenril argued that anything over a minute is over the line. Pokerbob says 10 minutes. You're all talking about the same thing, but you're reaching different conclusions.
In Virginia, 1 mile per hour over the speed limit is speeding, no exceptions. This does not mean that a Police Officer will pull you over for it. Most, in fact, won't bother unless you're 10 or 15 over. What it does mean that, is that if you do get pulled over, you have no right to ***** about it.
An infraction for an early bump may be severe, but we don't see the full history of warnings and infractions the user might have. Maybe they've already been warned multiple times. Maybe not. but they broke the rules and got called for it. You can ask for lenience, but saying that mods are a joke for enforcing the rules of the site is just laughable.
Everytime I see the quality of posts on this site deriding the mods, I laugh a little. I used to play WoW and contribute to a forum called Elitist Jerks. They uphold their name quite literally. The result? A clean forum with organizedup-to-date information that is properly punctuated and legible, as well as being lauded as the best place for WoW theorycrafting. Why? Because everyone who doesn't comply is asked tonever post again. Add to this a rather strict penalty for accumulating points (2pts = 1 day suspension, 4pts = 3days, 10pts=ban).
Should the mods here emulate ElitistJerks? Oh good heavens no; the sites are built for radically different purposes, and tailored to radically different audiences. Yet it illustrates the point. 1) This site is not jerks about moderation. 2) How do you break a rule, and then try challenge it in this manner? It's clearly spelled out what the consequences are. You can hope that they let it slide, but you really can't argue if they don't. 3) You can't claim they're impeding "your business." You're on their site. WTF. Seriously, play by the rules of the game, or set up shop elsewhere; you don't get to assign yourself arbitrary rights that don't exist. You're not special. 4) Yes, this site is existent on its customers. That means they get to look at what keeps/drives people away, and tailor the rules accordingly. Not that we have increased rights over them.
Seven different users have posted arguments for seven different cutoffs where it's "logical" or "obvious" that the rule should not be enforced. One user says anything over a minute should be infractable. Another says anything over 2 hours. Others take various times in the middle.
My point is, what is obvious and logical to you is not necessarily obvious and logical to any other user. Someone is going to disagree with every rule, and nobody is going to agree with every rule. All of these are ultimately arbitrary time cutoffs. There are arguments that can be made in favor any cutoff (as shown above). At the end of the day, a 24 hour rule is the most obvious (since everyone on Earth experiences a 24 hour day) and the easiest to enforce.
Yes, any cutoff is arbitrary. However, there are two significant disadvantages of the current 24-hour rule.
1. It does not safely allow bumping at the same time each day.
2. Well-intentioned users bumping at the "obvious" 24-hour interval can accidentally break the rule due to clock synchronization issues.
In addition, the fact that seven different users have argued for seven different cutoffs does not mean we all disagree. Essentially, we're mostly arguing together for "cutoff slightly less than 24 hours" over the current "cutoff of exactly 24 hours." The exact cutoff chosen isn't that important. What is important is that there is some grace period, the existence of which solves the two problems I've mentioned.
1. It does not safely allow bumping at the same time each day.
2. Well-intentioned users bumping at the "obvious" 24-hour interval can accidentally break the rule due to clock synchronization issues.
If you scroll down to the bottom of every single page on this site there is a clock that tells you what time it is according to the site. Clock Synch is not an excuse.
In addition, the fact that seven different users have argued for seven different cutoffs does not mean we all disagree. Essentially, we're mostly arguing together for "cutoff slightly less than 24 hours" over the current "cutoff of exactly 24 hours." The exact cutoff chosen isn't that important. What is important is that there is some grace period, the existence of which solves the two problems I've mentioned.
This is exactly the problem. Even if everyone agreed that their should be some grace period, what should it be? I doubt everyone would agree. And even if everyone did agree on a reasonable grace period (say 5 minutes), shouldn't we expect threads just like this one to be made by people who were infracted for bumping 6 minutes early?
A "soft" system (i.e. one with a grace period or a degree of moderator discretion about early bumps) would only be abused. If User X bumps his thread 5 minutes early and doesn't get an infraction, then at some point in the future User Y is going to bump his thread 6 minutes early and get an infraction. He'll find the post where X didn't get infracted (I know this sounds ridiculous, but users who believe they've been unjustly infracted would make amazing private investigators) and contest the infraction. The moderator could reverse the infraction, in which case the same situation would reoccur with User Z bumping his thread 7 minutes early. Or the moderator could let the infraction stand and make it "official" that 5 minutes early is acceptable. After about a month of that rule, another thread would appear in CI complaining about the 23 hour and 55 minute bump rule, and many users would post very eloquent arguments for why 6 minute or 7 minute or X minute early bumps should be allowed.
I can't see a way that a "soft" enforcement system could be implemented without it devolving into the same situation we currently have, only with a less-than-intuitive time limit on bumping.
Exactly. And when you posted that it probably says that you posted it at 2:19 (2:20 since the minute passed). The time on that clock is the time of the forum and any GMT adjustments are in your profile so even if you travel it's the same.
Exactly. And when you posted that it probably says that you posted it at 2:19 (2:20 since the minute passed). The time on that clock is the time of the forum and any GMT adjustments are in your profile so even if you travel it's the same.
O.o
Are you saying that this is the official time on any computer that I use to post on the site, so long as I log in, regardless of what computer I use? And if so, if my phone says that it's after 11:22 AM, that's irrelevant, if the computer says that it is 1:24 PM. (Assuming that I last bumped yesterday at 1:22 PM.)
Just to clarify. Because I thought that you were saying that my number and your number were going to be the same, which they clearly aren't.
Not trying to be a pain, just was confused about what you were saying.
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if the 23 hour rule is fine then the current 24 hour one is pretty much a no brainer to keep? Seriously its not hard to deal with 24 hours. Lets say i update at 4pm... Ok I update at 4pm the next day, and the next day, and so forth. Prioritize your time, learn time management, and hell PCs have ways to post reminders for you. its NOT hard and this discussion is making it seam like its a pain in the ass when its really not at all. Rule shouldnt be changed cause people in general are unable to wait an hour or in most cases here it seams to be 5 mins.
Seriously? This is a major problem?
for the record this issue doesnt affect me either way, but i dont know why you need tombe so hostile about it.
obviously this isnt a major problem to users(and if it is they probably need to get a mental examination) but it is something that some users would like to see changed. they obviously enjoy the site enough to use it regularly so ot isnt like they are saying the site is crap, they just want to improve it, they want to make it into something better in their eyes.
why on earth would you have a problem with this?
as for my two cents on the issue, changing the rules to a hardlined 23 hour bump period seems like the best route, almost all people operate on a 24 hour cycle and therefore giving them an hour grace allows for them to keep it bumped every day, as opposed to the 24 hour a day cycle which puts people on a 24 hour+ cycle.
as should be obvious above i dont actually think this os something to start a war over, but i do think it is a rule that could be improved.
I agree this might actually be a solid idea; people tend to not bump precisely on the 24th hour mark, so that pushes the time a person would be allowed to bump further and further up the clock to the point where they're essentially missing the period they're <asleep, at work, in school, etc> and default to a later time in each iteration.
I know I have missed the 24-hour mark and come up short at points in the past. Moving the clocks an hour back just to keep people in a guaranteed "once a day" option might be worth looking at.
Also, to subvert confusion, I don't moderate in the primary trading sections of Market Street. I'm saying this as a person who has sold cards on the forum and will likely sell again at some point in the future. (I also think the mods there do a great job and that there is a lot of and a lot of complicated work that gets done there)
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Well...we agree about that much at least.
Which is all well and good, and fine. And I don't. But if they change it to twenty three hours, math gets involved. And math inevitably requires MORE attention and more mistakes get made. Because, given the opportunity, people will start bumping their threads every 23 hours instead of every twenty-four. And then the Mods are going to have to look at their bumps from every day and make sure that they're not violating the rules.
When it's every 24 hours, you simply need to ask yourself, "Is this later or equal to yesterday?" Yes, all good. No, infraction.
When it's every 23 hours, you have to say, "Okay, less than 24. How much less?" And then time zones are (apparently) an issue (I can't see how, but I'll go with what people are saying, and accept that it is). Then, people make mistakes.
And, if people get the opportunity to bump their lists back up every 23, I can't imagine that they really will wait for 24. (If they were, they wouldn't be complaining.) Then, next thing you know, people will say, "Why can't we make it 22 hours?"
It's a pile of sand.
That isn't a problem...just an extreme corner case from a fuzzy "once a day rule" (QA engineer in me couldn't resist).
The problem with this binary operation is if your clock is out of sync and you believe you are on time but the time on the server says otherwise.
Yes it is error prone. Is it the end of the world? No. I would just like to be able to bump at say 8am-ish every day without looking at the clock and worrying about getting an infraction for being 2 minutes early when I am clearly following the spirit of the rule.
Seems to make it easier on everyone so you don't have to set the bump alarm.
I mean seriously...are ALL the clocks in your house exactly synchronized? I get about a minute difference depending on which clock I look at due to the fact that I cannot calibrate at the second level on these digital clocks.
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Time zones are an issue for the "once per day" rule some people were suggesting. The 23 hour rule is much easier, and I'm pretty sure most people can subtract 1 without making a mistake. Anyway, if a mod does make a mistake, infractions are easy enough to reverse.
22 hours doesn't improve things. 23 hours does because it allows people to post at the same time every day. This is not a slippery slope.
No. But thankfully, there is a clock in my computer. Which is what I use to post on the internetz. So, I can always be sure to use the same one. It's almost too convenient.
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Any admins have a response to this?
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you knew the rule was 24 hours so what made you think the 24 hour rule didn't apply to you? you can see the last time you bumbed your thread just by looking at your last bump and checking the time.
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I doubt this backlash will ever stop as long as policy goes unchanged
Seven different users have posted arguments for seven different cutoffs where it's "logical" or "obvious" that the rule should not be enforced. One user says anything over a minute should be infractable. Another says anything over 2 hours. Others take various times in the middle.
My point is, what is obvious and logical to you is not necessarily obvious and logical to any other user. Someone is going to disagree with every rule, and nobody is going to agree with every rule. All of these are ultimately arbitrary time cutoffs. There are arguments that can be made in favor any cutoff (as shown above). At the end of the day, a 24 hour rule is the most obvious (since everyone on Earth experiences a 24 hour day) and the easiest to enforce.
It's not that I thought it didn't apply. It's when I had the convenient moment to post. At the end of the day, we are effectively the customers of this site. Without the community, this site doesn't exist. Not allowing any room for variation with something like this just frustrates people and makes everyone involved look bad.
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That's my point. My use of the phrase "cut-off" was meant to indicate a cut-off point where it's close enough to the actual bump time that an infraction isn't warranted. You said it should be a few minutes. ShadowFenril argued that anything over a minute is over the line. Pokerbob says 10 minutes. You're all talking about the same thing, but you're reaching different conclusions.
An infraction for an early bump may be severe, but we don't see the full history of warnings and infractions the user might have. Maybe they've already been warned multiple times. Maybe not. but they broke the rules and got called for it. You can ask for lenience, but saying that mods are a joke for enforcing the rules of the site is just laughable.
Everytime I see the quality of posts on this site deriding the mods, I laugh a little. I used to play WoW and contribute to a forum called Elitist Jerks. They uphold their name quite literally. The result? A clean forum with organized up-to-date information that is properly punctuated and legible, as well as being lauded as the best place for WoW theorycrafting. Why? Because everyone who doesn't comply is asked to never post again. Add to this a rather strict penalty for accumulating points (2pts = 1 day suspension, 4pts = 3days, 10pts=ban).
Should the mods here emulate ElitistJerks? Oh good heavens no; the sites are built for radically different purposes, and tailored to radically different audiences. Yet it illustrates the point. 1) This site is not jerks about moderation. 2) How do you break a rule, and then try challenge it in this manner? It's clearly spelled out what the consequences are. You can hope that they let it slide, but you really can't argue if they don't. 3) You can't claim they're impeding "your business." You're on their site. WTF. Seriously, play by the rules of the game, or set up shop elsewhere; you don't get to assign yourself arbitrary rights that don't exist. You're not special. 4) Yes, this site is existent on its customers. That means they get to look at what keeps/drives people away, and tailor the rules accordingly. Not that we have increased rights over them.
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Yes, any cutoff is arbitrary. However, there are two significant disadvantages of the current 24-hour rule.
1. It does not safely allow bumping at the same time each day.
2. Well-intentioned users bumping at the "obvious" 24-hour interval can accidentally break the rule due to clock synchronization issues.
In addition, the fact that seven different users have argued for seven different cutoffs does not mean we all disagree. Essentially, we're mostly arguing together for "cutoff slightly less than 24 hours" over the current "cutoff of exactly 24 hours." The exact cutoff chosen isn't that important. What is important is that there is some grace period, the existence of which solves the two problems I've mentioned.
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If you scroll down to the bottom of every single page on this site there is a clock that tells you what time it is according to the site. Clock Synch is not an excuse.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:18 AM.
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All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 PM.
I think that's an individual user thing.
This is exactly the problem. Even if everyone agreed that their should be some grace period, what should it be? I doubt everyone would agree. And even if everyone did agree on a reasonable grace period (say 5 minutes), shouldn't we expect threads just like this one to be made by people who were infracted for bumping 6 minutes early?
A "soft" system (i.e. one with a grace period or a degree of moderator discretion about early bumps) would only be abused. If User X bumps his thread 5 minutes early and doesn't get an infraction, then at some point in the future User Y is going to bump his thread 6 minutes early and get an infraction. He'll find the post where X didn't get infracted (I know this sounds ridiculous, but users who believe they've been unjustly infracted would make amazing private investigators) and contest the infraction. The moderator could reverse the infraction, in which case the same situation would reoccur with User Z bumping his thread 7 minutes early. Or the moderator could let the infraction stand and make it "official" that 5 minutes early is acceptable. After about a month of that rule, another thread would appear in CI complaining about the 23 hour and 55 minute bump rule, and many users would post very eloquent arguments for why 6 minute or 7 minute or X minute early bumps should be allowed.
I can't see a way that a "soft" enforcement system could be implemented without it devolving into the same situation we currently have, only with a less-than-intuitive time limit on bumping.
Exactly. And when you posted that it probably says that you posted it at 2:19 (2:20 since the minute passed). The time on that clock is the time of the forum and any GMT adjustments are in your profile so even if you travel it's the same.
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O.o
Are you saying that this is the official time on any computer that I use to post on the site, so long as I log in, regardless of what computer I use? And if so, if my phone says that it's after 11:22 AM, that's irrelevant, if the computer says that it is 1:24 PM. (Assuming that I last bumped yesterday at 1:22 PM.)
Just to clarify. Because I thought that you were saying that my number and your number were going to be the same, which they clearly aren't.
Not trying to be a pain, just was confused about what you were saying.