Actually, no. what I posted are facts. Not for or against Ria, but facts. And I didn't say I had one opinion or the other I said that I'm not in a position to have an opinion, because I'm biased.
If I support Ria, Ppl will say that It's obvious. He's my clan mate, so I'll support him. He's brainwashed me, etcetera....
I consider myself to be smart enough to not put myself in a situation where I'm led to an opinion. The only credible opinion I can have is to be against him. If I'm for him, I will never be taken seriously.
So, I do have an opinion (of course, I'm human), but nothing of what I wrote can tell you what it is and, since circumstances, don't allow me to choose my side and have it be accepted by the general public, despite what that side is, I reserve the right to not state it.
I will not be forced to be Pro or Against Ria. If there comes a time when I can have any of the 2 approaches with the same level of credibility (which I find difficult in this situations), I'll state what my view is.
For now, I just delivered facts that apply to Ria and to almost every (if not all) staff problem this site has had in the past.
If you're going to say that you're not stating your opinion, at least don't make it so obvious on which side you come down. You're just clouding it with subtext, and frankly it's obnoxious to read.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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So since I am not a gutterite, was a previous Admin and was even in the same clan as rianaln for a long time , I think it is safe to say I hold neither a personal grudge against him nor do I have a gutter based agenda , nor do I not understand the inner workings of the site and how senior staff issues progress.
This is not about the gutter or any kind of vendetta (at least for me), this is about being unhappy with multiple decisions and actions taken across the site and a genuine belief that despite ria being a nice guy he is not suitable for the task of admin.
As someone so far removed from all the personal vendettas and hurt feelings surrounding the gutter, I am most interested to hear your opinions and what you have viewed as abuse of power from Ria (not that I would otherwise be opposed to hearing your opinions Bel ).
However, he is one of the key components of the site's three-man executive team, and these types of things don't happen on your watch without approval.
I quote this mainly because of the bolded text. There needs to be more admins on the site instead of only three. The site could get away with three or fewer admins back in 2005-2007 when there was only a fraction of current users that we have today. That is no longer the case, especially after the "2009 boom" that brought a ton of people here to the site.
Having three admins only exacerbates the problem when someone leaves temporarily, like Sene and rianalnn have done just recently. When so few people are at that level of power and responsibility, they can ill-afford to leave, especially when the site is going through rough times.
There needs to be at least five admins, if not more. Many major forums I visit have several admins and not just three.
It really is. I don't think that's the motivation (sometimes, there's really a witch to get rid of), and I don't think who the admin is or isn't affects me in the slightest. But it's just phenomenal bad timing to bring it up right now. It looks like retaliation. The thread title doesn't help.
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Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I don't get the example posted in the original post. Ria was making a legitimate and probably true accusation at N_S. Just because Talore swooped in and demanded Ria stop talking doesn't mean Ria's comments weren't justified.
I don't get the example posted in the original post. Ria was making a legitimate and probably true accusation at N_S. Just because Talore swooped in and demanded Ria stop talking doesn't mean Ria's comments weren't justified.
No. That discussion took place in a private area of the forum only staff members have access to, never was something said "at ( N_S )". It was ria making jokes about something Talore was sensitive about. Talore replied emotionally. He then asks politely to change the subject. ria instead bullies Talore. You see, rianalnn is an ADMINISTRATOR, and outranks Talore. As someone with the ability to remove Talore from staff, he sits in a position of POWER and from there bullies the regular staff members. This is just a mild example. I hope other people speak up as well.
I don't get the example posted in the original post. Ria was making a legitimate and probably true accusation at N_S. Just because Talore swooped in and demanded Ria stop talking doesn't mean Ria's comments weren't justified.
If someone kept asking you questions on an issue you'd already admitted defeat on (twice, no less), would you be upset? I would have moderated that for trolling, if not flaming, during my tenure.
I'm not here to ask for your resignation. If you say you have a quiet conscience, then fine. I cannot dismiss what you have done for this site.
However, I will ask you this: please take a look at the way you handle your staff. You have competent people moderating, but there are far more than one or two moderators (former and current) who are not happy with the way you conduct yourself in the moderator lounge. You are a figure of authority for them, because of your rank. Please take that into consideration when speaking to them, because they are volunteers, not your employees. And I personally treat my employees a lot better than what you treat your volunteers.
And because I know how you are, and how you react, I just want to let you know that I don't expect a response, nor I want it. I just want you to think about it, please.
Thank you.
All the best.
Here, I posted this when I had just left the staff. At least one moderator thanked that publicly and I had PMs sent to me thanking me for saying that. At least one mod has told me that they haven't quit because they like helping out in their forums. I put up with some crap because of that too, until [there's a whole thread about it].
I personally think that rianalnn doesn't realize when he is wrong. And he can be quite convincing about his intentions, probably because they ARE good, despite his ****ed up methods. The bottom line is that enough members who care about this site have come to the conclusion that he is not fit for the administration position. Even rianalnn HIMSELF said once that he just wanted a technical role because administration was such a burden.
I wasn't before, but I am now. I ask you to please step down rianalnn, for the good of the site and your own.*
*: And since you like to interpret things as threats, when I talk about your own good I mean the stress that administrating this site evidently causes you, nothing more. /Dodge
I don't know what makes you think what side I'm on, but you're wrong. In fact, no one even mentioned the side I'm on.... Anyway, this thread is not about me or my opinions, so, moving on?
You'll make a pretty decent politician :rolleyes:.
It's still not colorless, and has no color. That's a paradox. So either you're a Zen master or an idiot, I'll assume the Zen master for sake of argument. This card will have no paradoxes because it has a clear paradox. Deep stuff man.
I would otherwise refrain from this business but could someone precisely quantify the size of the Gutter subcommunity (active members, "lurker" members, and all members).
I was tickled pink to hear of the Gutter swelling to 200 (197, IIRC, was the exact number in signatures) or so members.
Thanks.
I'd like to sit on the fence for a bit before forming a strong opinion and an a priori argument if it pleases you.
Though, if I am to say anything substantial, it's "votan, what the hell?".
No one can doubt that you have an intelligence that many on this site envy. Even the way you type/speak/w.e and string words together is a gift I wish I could do half as well. You keep a level head, and the only other time I have seen you show emotion period, was with the whole "Naka" issue in the Mafia Council Thread.
Which then begs the question: What do you hope to accomplish with this thread? What shocks me more about the thread is not the OP itself, but the writer. Surely, you recognized the potential negatives of what you showed, including justifying the fears of the higher-ups that there are leaks in the staff, much less, grossly violating the "What happens here, stays here" clause, so I am curious...
I, too, have been targeted by rianalnn as described in Azrael's post.
Several months ago, I was told on AIM to "go piss up a rope." I went to find the chat log, but apparently I didn't set my AIM to save chat logs until after that.
Ria's welcome to correct me, but I believe this is what happened:
I went to him regarding the Sex thread I had gotten started in the Speakeasy. I said something that wasn't hostile, but he interpreted it as such and said the above quote. I was highly offended, much more bickering occurred, and it actually led to an enormous fight between r_0 and myself that night. It was terrible.
More recently, there was this:
Quote from MandersHex »
Quote from rianalnn »
Quote from MandersHex »
Quote from rianalnn »
Quote from MandersHex »
Quote from rianalnn »
Hey Hex.
I'm guessing you missed the post where N_S said we fired Annorax because it was your turn to be the n-----?
No, I saw that. So, why did you send this PM? And why did you send a PM rather than post this in the relevant thread?
You think that's ok?
I don't care what they think, ria. Aside from the fact that, if I'm undertanding this compromise correctly, no one will be the ****** now.
Now, would you please kindly answer my questions?
I'm on holiday, dude. Why you getting in my face?
How on Earth is answering your question and asking my own "in your face"?
Also, being on holiday doesn't answer my question. In fact, it raises another. Why send the PM in the first place?
I just don't get it.
He didn't actually respond to my question until I brought it up again in the thread in question in the mod lounge, which means I can't show you what he said.
I ask you all here: is there any evidence of me "getting in his face" in my PMs?
For the record, I asked him those questions because this read as him trying to pit me against the Gutter and get me back on the anti-Gutter side. Regardless of his intentions, I feel this PM and the AIM instance that I have are very unbecoming of an Admin. I also feel that this shows that ria cannot remove his emotion from the site and it is hindering his ability to perform satisfactorily. I agree that it will be better if ria steps down as Admin, or at least restricts himself to the technical side of being an Admin.
I also encourage any Mods who feel the same way or have had similar situations with ria to speak up. Now is the time to lay it all on the table and end this entire debate once and for all.
Back in my day, when we had an abusive Administrator we went to Hannes and he dealt with it. Why is everything here going on in public?
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
@MikeyG: I'm curious now, as I don't think I encountered what you speak of during my time digging through the archives. What difficult decisions from previous administrations did you have to overturn while you were an administrator here? What unpopular initiatives did you undertake?
While I was an admin? I'm unsure, so much of my time on staff was a blur that I can remember events, but not what position I was in at the time. Unpopular initiatives happened all the time. Rules changes, banning popular members, the dozen or so times the Gutter came under threat. Being an admin involves a great deal of unpopular actions. And keep in mind that any changes implemented on a policy level involved subverting a prior administration's choices.
The big examples are from my personal life. Last year, I was promoted to assistant manager of a department at my hotel. In previous years, the staff were able to take summer vacations two staff members per week but because of higher business volume and staff shortages, last year they couldn't. We had to make the tough call to deny vacations they would have been able to take in previous years, thus overturning precedent. It did not go over well.
From everything I've read of you, you were one of the most well-thought-of administrators this site has ever had, and I at least attributed that partly to your attitude of letting bygones be bygones, not making unecessary waves.
Well thank you, but I wouldn't have expect so. Or at least it's hard to feel that way, I'd like to think I could have been better. That's why I tend to cut the staff a lot of slack, I know what it's like to have honest goals and fail to always meet them.
Nothing has happened, though, unless viperesque was lying about cyberbullying being the reason for the gutter to be closed. As I said, cyberbullying became an issue back in late 2010 and early 2011. there was a brief burst, maybe a few months worth, of increased focus on cyberbullying, but that has lergely passed. If this was motivated by cyberbullying, I have yet to see specific cases of cyberbullying related to the gutter, or new developments on that front of any kind cited by the staff supporing their case. Given the importance of staff accountability, this is suprising.
Again, I don't want to get embroiled in another debate about the Gutter. But I do believe attitudes shifted somewhat as cyberbullying finally became a forefront issue for MTGS. Sometimes a big event isn't necessary to change things, but a lot of very small ones that shift perceptions.
He's certainly in his right to hold that opinion, but the administration doesn't agree. Sene has spent a lot of time in the pegging chamber trying to work out the issues regarding the gutter, which wouldn't have happened if the admins agreed that the gutter gives this site a bad name.
Conjecture. The other staff members may or may not agree but it had become clear by this point that compromise was preferable to other actions. Even if they thought the Gutter has a bad rep, they're largely stuck in damage-control compromising mode now. Whatever the rest of the administration felt, clearly that's been tabled to promote discussion and compromise.
Just out of curiosity, who do you include when you talk about the administration?
When I talk of the administration, I'm talking broadly about the staff members involved in a decision. Not every staffer is involved in every decision. And decision making isn't always done at an administrator level. So I refer to the decision makers as the administration. It's essentially the staff, but not quite all of them all the time.
Manders wins the thread. That PM, and the shadow politics displayed there, shows that Ria is unfit to administrator this website. He's emotionally manipulating a person who works directly under him. I doubt even his staunch supporters* can defend this crooked action.
*Can we trust that his supporters haven't been emotionally manipulated too, or promised modships in exchanged for their support?
Rianalnn, I am asking you to step down. You are not fit for the job of administrator and would be better suited elsewhere. You are dragging down your staffers and associates. You are making a mockery of open discourse and, most of all, your initiatives keep the hard working mods from doing their jobs when they're drawn to dramabombs instead.
For the good of the site and its members, I am asking that you resign.
Thank this post if you agree, or cosign, folks.
I've been speaking out against him and his lack of empathy, subtle manipulations, private tantrums, public spats, and general negativity for awhile now. I thought I got through to him several weeks back, but this recent revelation from Manders made me shake my head.
I just had an AIM convo where I described how Ria continues to burn bridges and alienate friends. Just weeks ago, Azrael was defending Ria's character. Sadly, more and more people get burned by Ria when they help him out, only to have him turn around and spurn them when it fits his agenda.
dude
[Rianalnn] is basically on an island
with his few cronies
who he will eat when the food runs out
(To avoid a bogus suspension or something, I want to state that this comment is an obvious metaphor.)
If the Original Poster was different the stock answer would be the gutter coming under attack again.
Speaking from a largely neutral perspective most of the time when these threads have been brought up around when Gutter issues are highlighted I have always gotten the impression that the grievances have been stored up for while and are being brought forward when most advantageous to the gutter.
AS per my post in the latest gutter closing thread, this is just an impression from the outside. I am willing to be persuaded otherwise given credible, concise arguments from either side.
If what is outlined in Azrael's first 3 posts is even close to being an accurate representation of what it happened this is the first time I am thinking that there might be something to the complaints, due to the person who has raised them and the time taken to raise them. Like TCM I am very surprised it was Azrael who started this thread.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Back in my day, when we had an abusive Administrator we went to Hannes and he dealt with it. Why is everything here going on in public?
I think there are several reasons. The whole Mod staff will moderate themselves has failed to do so. hannes while a decent guy the few times i have talked with him is pretty much hands off unless he has to be involved.
Going private does nothing to resolve the situation. So people have resolved to take it public to give more transparency.
This happens when people get fed up over how things are being run and they can't get anywhere with the people in charge.
or better yet they see other people doing far more damage and yet they get away with it.
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Heh, yeah; that or folks would leave the community to form another, as was the case with 'News and Subterranean Spirit.
Really, though. What does this kind of public thread do but make drama and cause people to be bitter? Wouldn't it make more sense to have taken this up with Hannes, see if he wanted to act, and then take it up in public?
I mean, the reason the S_S thing happened the way it did was because the owner wouldn't do things.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
My stance on Rianalnn has changes several times in the past few months. At first I was unhappy with the seemingly unsolvable problems with the gutter, his inability to talk to others and his constant pushing attitude made me believe that he was unfit for administration. Then, when the gutter talks began, I honestly believed that he was finally starting to talk to others and push past the problems. Now I am back at my first opinion.
Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
I went through the thread and tallied every user along with whether or not they were affiliated with the gutter and whether or not they were posting against or in support of Ria. In many cases it was not clear so those went into the "no clear position" column.
I find it interesting that the gutter overwhelmingly is against Ria (no surprises there) but that non gutter members (including mods) overwhelmingly support Ria. Also, for a small community, gutter members represent over 50% of the posters in this thread.
Taking this into account, I don't think accusations of "witch hunt" are unfair at all.
Results are presented in graph form attached to this post.
Your n is too small to draw any real conclusions. We need more people before you can draw any meaning from this exercise. Have you considered including his Helpdesk and the most recent Gutter Disaster Thread in CI?
Also, its worth mentioning that those whom support Rianalnn don't have a convenient place to see that he is under fire, with the exception of Staff, who have the ModCave. Members of the Gutter do have such a space. The number of people who visit the Drama Subforum (i.e., CI) regularly is rather small.
Harkius
Its skewed.
Like any cell phone or product review, people don't come post when they are happy with something - only unhappy. If such things held weight, my cell phone should have fallen apart by now, the buttons should have worn out, the screen should have broke, the battery should have been replaced 3 times. Hell, according to reviews, it should have been the worst phone ever. But in fact its thee best cell I ever had. lol
Your n is too small to draw any real conclusions. We need more people before you can draw any meaning from this exercise. Have you considered including his Helpdesk and the most recent Gutter Disaster Thread in CI?
Harkius
Ugh, even doing this thread took forever to read everyone's post, determine their position and then check if they were part of the gutter. I think close to 30 members and the overwhelming nature of the trends (literally zero gutter members supporting Ria) are enough for now.
Ugh, even doing this thread took forever to read everyone's post, determine their position and then check if they were part of the gutter. I think close to 30 members and the overwhelming nature of the trends (literally zero gutter members supporting Ria) are enough for now.
Your mistake is trying to think of this as a Gutter thing. Azrael is no gutterite. He has the respect of the Gutter, but that's a different thing.
If you're going to say that you're not stating your opinion, at least don't make it so obvious on which side you come down. You're just clouding it with subtext, and frankly it's obnoxious to read.
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As someone so far removed from all the personal vendettas and hurt feelings surrounding the gutter, I am most interested to hear your opinions and what you have viewed as abuse of power from Ria (not that I would otherwise be opposed to hearing your opinions Bel ).
I quote this mainly because of the bolded text. There needs to be more admins on the site instead of only three. The site could get away with three or fewer admins back in 2005-2007 when there was only a fraction of current users that we have today. That is no longer the case, especially after the "2009 boom" that brought a ton of people here to the site.
Having three admins only exacerbates the problem when someone leaves temporarily, like Sene and rianalnn have done just recently. When so few people are at that level of power and responsibility, they can ill-afford to leave, especially when the site is going through rough times.
There needs to be at least five admins, if not more. Many major forums I visit have several admins and not just three.
It really is. I don't think that's the motivation (sometimes, there's really a witch to get rid of), and I don't think who the admin is or isn't affects me in the slightest. But it's just phenomenal bad timing to bring it up right now. It looks like retaliation. The thread title doesn't help.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
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No. That discussion took place in a private area of the forum only staff members have access to, never was something said "at ( N_S )". It was ria making jokes about something Talore was sensitive about. Talore replied emotionally. He then asks politely to change the subject. ria instead bullies Talore. You see, rianalnn is an ADMINISTRATOR, and outranks Talore. As someone with the ability to remove Talore from staff, he sits in a position of POWER and from there bullies the regular staff members. This is just a mild example. I hope other people speak up as well.
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If someone kept asking you questions on an issue you'd already admitted defeat on (twice, no less), would you be upset? I would have moderated that for trolling, if not flaming, during my tenure.
Here, I posted this when I had just left the staff. At least one moderator thanked that publicly and I had PMs sent to me thanking me for saying that. At least one mod has told me that they haven't quit because they like helping out in their forums. I put up with some crap because of that too, until [there's a whole thread about it].
I personally think that rianalnn doesn't realize when he is wrong. And he can be quite convincing about his intentions, probably because they ARE good, despite his ****ed up methods. The bottom line is that enough members who care about this site have come to the conclusion that he is not fit for the administration position. Even rianalnn HIMSELF said once that he just wanted a technical role because administration was such a burden.
I wasn't before, but I am now. I ask you to please step down rianalnn, for the good of the site and your own.*
*: And since you like to interpret things as threats, when I talk about your own good I mean the stress that administrating this site evidently causes you, nothing more. /Dodge
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You'll make a pretty decent politician :rolleyes:.
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UBR: Sedris
I was tickled pink to hear of the Gutter swelling to 200 (197, IIRC, was the exact number in signatures) or so members.
Thanks.
I'd like to sit on the fence for a bit before forming a strong opinion and an a priori argument if it pleases you.
Though, if I am to say anything substantial, it's "votan, what the hell?".
— jean-baptiste alphonse karr, les guêpes (1849)
wiki subforum @ mtgs forums * mtgs wiki * site rules
No one can doubt that you have an intelligence that many on this site envy. Even the way you type/speak/w.e and string words together is a gift I wish I could do half as well. You keep a level head, and the only other time I have seen you show emotion period, was with the whole "Naka" issue in the Mafia Council Thread.
Which then begs the question: What do you hope to accomplish with this thread? What shocks me more about the thread is not the OP itself, but the writer. Surely, you recognized the potential negatives of what you showed, including justifying the fears of the higher-ups that there are leaks in the staff, much less, grossly violating the "What happens here, stays here" clause, so I am curious...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Several months ago, I was told on AIM to "go piss up a rope." I went to find the chat log, but apparently I didn't set my AIM to save chat logs until after that.
Ria's welcome to correct me, but I believe this is what happened:
I went to him regarding the Sex thread I had gotten started in the Speakeasy. I said something that wasn't hostile, but he interpreted it as such and said the above quote. I was highly offended, much more bickering occurred, and it actually led to an enormous fight between r_0 and myself that night. It was terrible.
More recently, there was this:
He didn't actually respond to my question until I brought it up again in the thread in question in the mod lounge, which means I can't show you what he said.
I ask you all here: is there any evidence of me "getting in his face" in my PMs?
For the record, I asked him those questions because this read as him trying to pit me against the Gutter and get me back on the anti-Gutter side. Regardless of his intentions, I feel this PM and the AIM instance that I have are very unbecoming of an Admin. I also feel that this shows that ria cannot remove his emotion from the site and it is hindering his ability to perform satisfactorily. I agree that it will be better if ria steps down as Admin, or at least restricts himself to the technical side of being an Admin.
I also encourage any Mods who feel the same way or have had similar situations with ria to speak up. Now is the time to lay it all on the table and end this entire debate once and for all.
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Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
While I was an admin? I'm unsure, so much of my time on staff was a blur that I can remember events, but not what position I was in at the time. Unpopular initiatives happened all the time. Rules changes, banning popular members, the dozen or so times the Gutter came under threat. Being an admin involves a great deal of unpopular actions. And keep in mind that any changes implemented on a policy level involved subverting a prior administration's choices.
The big examples are from my personal life. Last year, I was promoted to assistant manager of a department at my hotel. In previous years, the staff were able to take summer vacations two staff members per week but because of higher business volume and staff shortages, last year they couldn't. We had to make the tough call to deny vacations they would have been able to take in previous years, thus overturning precedent. It did not go over well.
Well thank you, but I wouldn't have expect so. Or at least it's hard to feel that way, I'd like to think I could have been better. That's why I tend to cut the staff a lot of slack, I know what it's like to have honest goals and fail to always meet them.
Again, I don't want to get embroiled in another debate about the Gutter. But I do believe attitudes shifted somewhat as cyberbullying finally became a forefront issue for MTGS. Sometimes a big event isn't necessary to change things, but a lot of very small ones that shift perceptions.
Conjecture. The other staff members may or may not agree but it had become clear by this point that compromise was preferable to other actions. Even if they thought the Gutter has a bad rep, they're largely stuck in damage-control compromising mode now. Whatever the rest of the administration felt, clearly that's been tabled to promote discussion and compromise.
When I talk of the administration, I'm talking broadly about the staff members involved in a decision. Not every staffer is involved in every decision. And decision making isn't always done at an administrator level. So I refer to the decision makers as the administration. It's essentially the staff, but not quite all of them all the time.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
There remains a dearth of context, and it's a your word versus his thing. "Maybe, maybe not" would be my answer, though.
To be told to "go piss up a rope" sounds pretty brutal; I suppose it's something to the effect of "sod off!", right?
— jean-baptiste alphonse karr, les guêpes (1849)
wiki subforum @ mtgs forums * mtgs wiki * site rules
*Can we trust that his supporters haven't been emotionally manipulated too, or promised modships in exchanged for their support?
I've been speaking out against him and his lack of empathy, subtle manipulations, private tantrums, public spats, and general negativity for awhile now. I thought I got through to him several weeks back, but this recent revelation from Manders made me shake my head.
I just had an AIM convo where I described how Ria continues to burn bridges and alienate friends. Just weeks ago, Azrael was defending Ria's character. Sadly, more and more people get burned by Ria when they help him out, only to have him turn around and spurn them when it fits his agenda.
(To avoid a bogus suspension or something, I want to state that this comment is an obvious metaphor.)
If the Original Poster was different the stock answer would be the gutter coming under attack again.
Speaking from a largely neutral perspective most of the time when these threads have been brought up around when Gutter issues are highlighted I have always gotten the impression that the grievances have been stored up for while and are being brought forward when most advantageous to the gutter.
AS per my post in the latest gutter closing thread, this is just an impression from the outside. I am willing to be persuaded otherwise given credible, concise arguments from either side.
If what is outlined in Azrael's first 3 posts is even close to being an accurate representation of what it happened this is the first time I am thinking that there might be something to the complaints, due to the person who has raised them and the time taken to raise them. Like TCM I am very surprised it was Azrael who started this thread.
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I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
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I think there are several reasons. The whole Mod staff will moderate themselves has failed to do so. hannes while a decent guy the few times i have talked with him is pretty much hands off unless he has to be involved.
Going private does nothing to resolve the situation. So people have resolved to take it public to give more transparency.
This happens when people get fed up over how things are being run and they can't get anywhere with the people in charge.
or better yet they see other people doing far more damage and yet they get away with it.
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Really, though. What does this kind of public thread do but make drama and cause people to be bitter? Wouldn't it make more sense to have taken this up with Hannes, see if he wanted to act, and then take it up in public?
I mean, the reason the S_S thing happened the way it did was because the owner wouldn't do things.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
~~~
In any MMO, there are three aspects of competency. The PVP aspect, the PVE aspect, and the Social aspect. You can survive with two of those aspects, but only if they include the social aspect. It is a lesson that I have had to learn in the past, and it is a lesson that I believe Rianalnn has been ignoring.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
I find it interesting that the gutter overwhelmingly is against Ria (no surprises there) but that non gutter members (including mods) overwhelmingly support Ria. Also, for a small community, gutter members represent over 50% of the posters in this thread.
Taking this into account, I don't think accusations of "witch hunt" are unfair at all.
Results are presented in graph form attached to this post.
Its skewed.
Like any cell phone or product review, people don't come post when they are happy with something - only unhappy. If such things held weight, my cell phone should have fallen apart by now, the buttons should have worn out, the screen should have broke, the battery should have been replaced 3 times. Hell, according to reviews, it should have been the worst phone ever. But in fact its thee best cell I ever had. lol
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Ugh, even doing this thread took forever to read everyone's post, determine their position and then check if they were part of the gutter. I think close to 30 members and the overwhelming nature of the trends (literally zero gutter members supporting Ria) are enough for now.
Your mistake is trying to think of this as a Gutter thing. Azrael is no gutterite. He has the respect of the Gutter, but that's a different thing.
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