MTG Salvation

Quote from Kraken B. Trippin

I dont care how this resolves. I'm just here to post about a childrens card game. But its funny that MTGS as a site has driven away many mods, broken friendships and dealt with TONS adrama over 1 guy, but hes above punishment 'cause hes a great tech guy!'

Would you please just chill out? Geeze. You say you're here for the card game so just be here for the card game. Whether Ria stays or goes... This shouldn't affect you then! I think a lot of you guys just really need to chill out. It's crazy how some posters here claim to not even care yet continue to load this thread with garbage posts like this. Even some of the ones who do "care" are acting totally irrationally.

There is literally no reason to discuss this anymore. Just leave it to the "summit" (drama buzzwords, love them) because there's nothing your or anyone else's opinions will change at this point. I don't mean that in a condescending way that undermines your value, but this will get resolved soon enough, and I assure you it will not be because posts like yours keep getting made.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be condescending or rude or anything. I just think you guys need to drop it until you hear a solution and not get so po'd about this stuff.

Quote from MandersHex

Why is it so important that this be handled as swiftly as possible? I'm not talking months here, but I see no reason to try to rush through this decision or this process.

I didnt say as swiftly as possible. But do take into account that this particular discussion has been going on for years in some people's cases. That just between the Gutter closing thread, his helpdesk and now this thread there has been almost a month of discussion on the topic straight. You can (hopefully) see where some of us, myself included, are sick of talk that gets nowhere and need resolution to the situation. And dont give me that "Rian is on vacation" line, cuz you know as well as I do that he has had plenty of time to respond here and elsewhere without actually responding. If this was a game of Mafia, we would be calling his behavior 'active lurking'. Getting involved just enough to make it look like he is but when in reality he is avoiding actually committing to the 'game'.

Quote from ExpiredRascals

Past that, it is none of my business to say what accounts people have.

And yet you attempted to discredit NS by "outing" his gimmick. Anyone else see the irony in this.

I didnt say as swiftly as possible. But do take into account that this particular discussion has been going on for years in some people's cases. That just between the Gutter closing thread, his helpdesk and now this thread there has been almost a month of discussion on the topic straight. You can (hopefully) see where some of us, myself included, are sick of talk that gets nowhere and need resolution to the situation. And dont give me that "Rian is on vacation" line, cuz you know as well as I do that he has had plenty of time to respond here and elsewhere without actually responding. If this was a game of Mafia, we would be calling his behavior 'active lurking'. Getting involved just enough to make it look like he is but when in reality he is avoiding actually committing to the 'game'.

Whether they're doing it here or behind closed doors, they're talking and Ria IS involved. We all freaking beat the crap out of Ria and I don't blame him for not wanting to show his face when people like you post this garbage.

They'll have a solution soon. Stop fueling the fire. With posts like these, you are one of the reasons this is not ending and has been ongoing for a month.

Quote from Harkius

While I agree that his characterization of Viricide is inaccurate, that doesn't mean that you should chide him for it.

I should have used "misinterperated" not "manipulated" and it woulda came across much differently; it would have been a better word for it all around. It was certainly not meant as an "attack" on anyones character.

Quote from YamahaR1

I should have used "misinterperated" not "manipulated" and it woulda came across much differently; it would have been a better word for it all around. It was certainly not meant as an "attack" on anyones character.

That makes more sense, and I'm sorry it came across that way. To me your posts (all of them, not just your most recent) read as if you didn't see any validity in any of the criticisms raised, and it appeared to me that you were relying on an overly simplistic interpretation of the situation (i.e. that people should have simply spoken to rianalnn privately) to dismiss legitimate concerns from a number of users and staff members. That's what I took issue with.

Quote from Viricide

That makes more sense, and I'm sorry it came across that way. To me your posts (all of them, not just your most recent) read as if you didn't see any validity in any of the criticisms raised, and it appeared to me that you were relying on an overly simplistic interpretation of the situation (i.e. that people should have simply spoken to rianalnn privately) to dismiss legitimate concerns from a number of users and staff members. That's what I took issue with.

What I'm questioning are the random past Ria remarks or interaction incidents that are surfacing months if not a year after he said them. Whether it was in the clan forum, mafia or private conversation. It is quite obvious these moments of "impatience" as put or slip-ups do cause him a lot of grief after the fact.

But if he made a mafia related comment or did something in clans that angered somebody, why didn't they address it then? Why wait till now? Heck, one of the incidents brought to his helpdesk recently was from 2010! People waited two years to air that they had a grievance with somethin said?

Its pretty well understood that here at MTGS, if a staff member says or does something of this nature, your welcome to hop over to their helpdesk or use the staff inbox to express your distaste for it. Doing it now just seems opportunistic. This is what I meant by piling on the garbage.

I just feel that if it were me? I'd want them to approach me and say "Hey man...." than drop it on me long after the fact and build a case against how mean I am. I was trying to say this without being long-winded or hogging space in the thread. And I was trying to be general about it, rather than itemizing exactly what I was talking about. I'm sorry if you felt I came across as undermining the real issues people are concerned with.

I see where you're coming from. My understanding is that everyone is coming forward here and now because that's what this thread is for and that's what Azrael asked them to do.

Quote from YamahaR1

I just feel that if it were me? I'd want them to approach me and say "Hey man...." than drop it on me long after the fact and build a case against how mean I am. I was trying to say this without being long-winded or hogging space in the thread. And I was trying to be general about it, rather than itemizing exactly what I was talking about. I'm sorry if you felt I came across as undermining the real issues people are concerned with.

From what I'm reading, in most of these cases Ria was approached at the time. That does not preclude the issue being raised again now, because one of the main things being discussed is whether he has a pattern of problems. Re-raising an isolated issue after a couple of years is indeed usually unreasonable; but when the purpose is to determine a pattern, it is quite reasonable. More recent problems with Ria have certainly been raised as well.

In this particular case, I think the older things are actually quite useful, because much of the recent conflict between various individuals and Ria was around Gutter stuff, and going further back allows a better examination of whether there is a problem that is not simply an outcome of the Gutter conflict.

Since this is apparently an issue now, here is N_S infracted post, for reference:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8608366&postcount=1672

Quote from Kraken B. Trippin

The only reason I posted Frox is that its ridiculous that its taken so many pages of bs to get absolutely nowhere. Ria is not resigning, period. The admins wont admit it 4 political reasons, but they've made it clear Rias worth more than any lost members.

How do you not know he's resigning? A claim like that is ridiculous, since you have no knowledge of the inner-workings here.

Get out of the thread man, your claims are not helping things out at all. With no proof you're just making even more pages of BS, which you seem to be annoyed by. Your post is incredibly ironic and to be quiet honest, it's kind of lame that people are continuing to talk after what I said. Not because I have all the power in my posts or something stupid like that, but because the people that probably agreed with me are still posting and trying to talk about this when there's literally nothing to talk about anymore.

Just leave it to the AIM chat. I really don't mean to sound like a jackass but there shouldn't be any need for input from anybody until you all hear the staff's decision, whatever it may be.

EDIT: And yes, I guess it's even ironic I replied to you. Good lord...

Quote from Kraken B. Trippin

The only reason I posted Frox is that its ridiculous that its taken so many pages of bs to get absolutely nowhere. Ria is not resigning, period. The admins wont admit it 4 political reasons, but they've made it clear Rias worth more than any lost members.

Its not about the length of the thread determining whether or not points came across. Those involved understand the issues at hand within the first few pages. Beyond that, is dicussion of the points raised, and the community's general feelings toward those points.

Its not that so many pages are wasted; its simply the discussion afterwards. Thats all. It doesn't mean the point didnt get across or that effort was futile. They have a planned 'summit' meeting with valid points raised, and that was the success of the topic.

Quote from Kraken B. Trippin

I believe the point of the thread as outlined in the OP is 2 demand Rias resignation. Which isnt happening. Hence, pointless thread. I'm going 2 enjoy gloating 2 myself when this summit is over and Rias still in charge.

Do you have proof this is not happening? You're only looking at things as they appear on the surface. Look, I know as much as you do, but I just don't know how you can think a resignation is out of the question since you (who is just a regular old member like myself) can only see what's on the surface.

I'm just saying, you're acting really bizarrely over something you claim to not care about and can't even see the full picture of. Now I can really see why they don't want to share all their progress made on this stuff to the public. Just chill out, there's no reason to gloat even if you're right

ER will be posting the log presently, folks. But the Summit, after over 210 minutes of discussion, has completed.

You will be seeing one of the results of it up in CI in a few.

Just finished up the Summit Chat. Although I was optimistic going into the chat, the results have certainly exceeded my highest expectations.

I'm working on a summary post. Nai is working on sketching out one of the proposals in more depth. Ria's working on a post of his own.

As the discussion progressed, we made major progress in drafting a variety of proposed remedial measures that I feel should not only happily resolve the present crisis, but also provide a mechanism for greatly enhanced staff accountability long after the present crisis has subsided. And most importantly, members of the userbase would directly play a very critical role in this process.

More details coming down the pipes.

I need to reread and clean the logs. I'll post them as soon as I finish, but as nai said, there is over 210 minutes of discussion to reread, often posted at a blistering pace as two or three people replied to eachother. It's getting late here, and I'm rather drained from the chat, so I expect to have the logs posted tomorrow.

Like Azrael, I feel we covered a lot of very important ground with this, and I look forward to posting this for you guys to review.

One of several solutions to problems shown in this thread has been given its own thread. Please follow the link below and weigh in.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=433392

I'm a pretty optimistic guy, so I wasn't expecting any less. Though my personal contributions were somewhat scarce (a group chat tends to 'nath you all the time), I'm glad to have been a part of it, even though it took three and a half hours and started at 4:00 AM my time.

The staff has been working on a solution that we presented to Azrael, and that, plus the additional proposal that was brought up (which Nai is posting a thread about now) should, we believe, be a solution that satisfies both sides of this issue.

1. rianalnn will move from his administrator position to a technician role.

2. establish a watchdog tribunal.

I agree with Az that drama is required to run a good site. And I believe one of the Founding Fathers of the United States (Jefferson, wasn't it?) is oft-quoted in saying that the government should face an armed takeover ever 12 years or so.

That said, I'd like to see a little less of it at once.

At the suggestion of one member of the community, and with the agreement of the admins, this thread shall be closed. Discussion of the results of this thread, as well as the summary of the Summit, can be discussed in their respective threads.