I may be mistaken, and if so I apologize to Belgareth, but I think his point is essentially this:
1. Curse told "the staff" -- likely one member or a small group -- something about The Gutter.
2. "The staff" -- likely the same person / people as in #1 -- interpreted that something as "Curse says we have to close The Gutter and lie about why we did it."
3. "The staff" clarified that what Curse actually said was "The Gutter can stay or go; it's your decision."
Whatever the initial statement by Curse was, the fact that it was interpreted to mean "close The Gutter and lie about it" is disconcerting.
It's also worth noting that, to those of us without access to the actual conversations, it's very difficult to understand how "The Gutter can stay" -- which ER claims in the OP is Curse's actual position -- could be misinterpreted as "The Gutter will be closed and you will lie about the reason". Those aren't similar.
I swear, talking in here, on this site about anything that disagrees with the moderators is like talking to a freakin Jedi.
"These aren't the droids you're looking"
That just seems like it's being repeated over and over again. The crazy thing....Nai breached the CoC by knowingly leaking information that was supposed to be "super secret" and nothing has come of it. And it seems that there is a consensus of agreement to that fact....and nothing has been done of it. Now I understand that Nai is actually one of the better Mods/Admins here and he, unlike most of the lower echelon, uses his brain to come to a equitable decision that is logical and just.
This was a site where you can and had fun...said dumb stuff....talked to people you were "friends" with....maybe discussed Magic and got the newest information out there about upcoming releases....now you can't even ask a question about a card without getting an infraction for not phrasing it right or tagging properly.
Yet we still have a "Speculation" section were every other thread is "Force of Will in next Expansion set!"
Nai only leaked what someone else already had leaked for the purpose of undermining the staff. Use circular logic all you want, NS and the original leaker are the bad guys here. Their selfish actions in the face of site as a whole are the whole reason we are even having this conversation. If you cannot accept that your friend acted in a selfish and self-centered manner to protect a vast minority, your being blindsided by your friendship.
The fact of the matter is that the staff was discussing how to close the Gutter in the mod lounge at the same time they were discussing how to keep it open in the Pegging Chamber.
As someone who invested a lot of time and thought into the Pegging Chamber thread as a Gutter 'representative', I was extremely disappointed to learn through leaked mod lounge info that I had been wasting my time. I really feel quite slighted by what happened in the Pegging Chamber. The staff sat there while myself and my friends tried giving CPR to a corpse, and never said a word.
The reason very little was being said was because both sides were privy to the Curse information and trying to decide what to do with it. Replace 'threads' with 'discussions' in my last post if you want to play the semantics card.
Disappointing response as usual.
You have no idea what your talking about. I hate what the gutter is at its core with the profanity and racism and trolling. I have always fought for the gutter to remain an club, just a club that follows the rules. There are very few people that ever simply wanted the gutter closed. There has always been the conversation of where to put them when the culture and rules are changed. That never changed, and 12 hours of misinformation is skewing your opinions.
You didn't post about your "feelings." You said that we were being two faced and they are just trying to show you that they weren't being two faced. Seems pretty obvious that's what they are doing. If you want to make it about personal attacks, fine, but at least be honest with yourself about that.
One of the reasons we never put it on hold was because we ourselves were trying to figure out what Curse would and would not allow - And we also thought they would be more active in that converastion... me at least. Why tell people that it's on hold when it looked like it was only going to be a day or two?
I can't be bothered to go find the posts now as it's 10.30pm here and I've had a long day but I think it's fairly obvious what I am referring to as the "facts" have changed a lot over time.
Yes it's easy to say incomplete info for 13.5 hrs, but why wasn't it clarified earlier or why was the post made with incomplete facts.
Sure the staff don't like people pointing out their errors but this situation was handled atrociously and the only way forward is to accept culpibility for what amounts to either inexperience in how to deal with things professionally or a bad attitude to community.
I am inclined to believe the former , but even so the staff truly need to understand what a monumentally foolish mistake it was to deal with it how they did.
The staff was never in charge here, the people who were in charge were those with a personal agenda that threatened the health of Salve. Your so ready to dismiss the facts of the timeframe. 12 hours is not a long time. People sleep, people don't always have the ability to answer. It wasn't clarified, because the INFO WASN'T THERE. Use some logic, please.
I may be mistaken, and if so I apologize to Belgareth, but I think his point is essentially this:
1. Curse told "the staff" -- likely one member or a small group -- something about The Gutter.
2. "The staff" -- likely the same person / people as in #1 -- interpreted that something as "Curse says we have to close The Gutter and lie about why we did it."
3. "The staff" clarified that what Curse actually said was "The Gutter can stay or go; it's your decision."
Whatever the initial statement by Curse was, the fact that it was interpreted to mean "close The Gutter and lie about it" is disconcerting.
It's also worth noting that, to those of us without access to the actual conversations, it's very difficult to understand how "The Gutter can stay" -- which ER claims in the OP is Curse's actual position -- could be misinterpreted as "The Gutter will be closed and you will lie about the reason". Those aren't similar.
I am not privvy to the conversation, but i assure you that it was all a misunderstanding. I cannot confirm it without breaking COC, but the way it was initially phrased it looked terrible. Terrible enough for someone to not wait for clarification, over-react and leak it to the gutter. That wasn't Nai. Nai's the one who was looking for clarification.
The reason everyone involved other than NS are banned is because someone over-reacted and didn't care to wait for clarification and leaked the OP to the gutter. The in turn over-reacted to the leaked news and decided that the health of the site was not important because of misinformation.
Galspanic is the only person in history capable of telling someone who says 'I feel slighted,' that they aren't talking about their feelings.
LOL.
You can mock me but that doesn't really help the conversation.
You said:
The fact of the matter is that the staff was discussing how to close the Gutter in the mod lounge at the same time they were discussing how to keep it open in the Pegging Chamber.
Senori responded to that part of your comment with:
Nope.
1) We were discussing this situation with Curse for like a day total in the Mod Lounge before everything exploded.
2) During that period, you'll probably recall, very little was being said in the Pegging Chamber, because of this.
After he explains that your assertion was incorrect, you bring being slighted into it. That was not part of what you or Senori were talking about:
'Nope?' So I don't feel slighted? Are you me?
The reason very little was being said was because both sides were privy to the Curse information and trying to decide what to do with it. Replace 'threads' with 'discussions' in my last post if you want to play the semantics card.
Disappointing response as usual.
I am not sure how you being slighted had anything to do with his answers, that's all. If there is a connection I am not making I apologize for that, but it seemed to be you stating incorrect facts and him trying to correct that.
At least you understood what I was reffering to without needing me to spell it out
A large part of what you are talking about is incomplete information, so asking you to provide specifics wasn't meant to belittle you or anything - I just figure that if I am going to answer a question responsibly, the details being questioned need to be laid out.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
I am not privvy to the conversation, but i assure you that it was all a misunderstanding. I cannot confirm it without breaking COC, but the way it was initially phrased it looked terrible. Terrible enough for someone to not wait for clarification, over-react and leak it to the gutter. That wasn't Nai. Nai's the one who was looking for clarification.
The reason everyone involved other than NS are banned is because someone over-reacted and didn't care to wait for clarification and leaked the OP to the gutter. The in turn over-reacted to the leaked news and decided that the health of the site was not important because of misinformation.
I absolutely believe that it was a misunderstanding. I just hope you guys realize a few things:
1. It's very difficult to understand how two vastly different -- indeed, diametrically opposed -- positions could be conflated with one another.
2. It's disconcerting that anyone on staff could misinterpret "The Gutter can stay" as meaning "Close The Gutter and lie about it".
3. It's disconcerting that enough time passed for the issue to filter through three different staff lounges before anyone thought to go back to Curse.
NS and the original leaker are the bad guys here. Their selfish actions in the face of site as a whole are the whole reason we are even having this conversation. If you cannot accept that your friend acted in a selfish and self-centered manner to protect a vast minority, your being blindsided by your friendship.
NS was told that there was a plan to get him banned and that he would start getting retroactive infractions to build up another suspension and eventually a ban, along with the info he was fed about Curse. He initially dismissed these messages as trolling, until two of his not-so-recent posts were infracted. Being on the verge of a ban, as he believed it to be a fact, he only shared the info he had gotten that directly affected all of the Gutter with... just the Gutter (that place only the members of the Gutter can see). No thread in CI, no Reddit, no SCG. That was deemed "malicious" and got him banned anyway (which I personally interpreted as means to repress anyone else from saying anything about it outside of the Gutter) while at the same time the information he gave about the sale was confirmed by Nai.
So, I resent that you call him the bad guy in that situation. I said earlier that banning him was a mistake. I also think it was very wrong.
June: The staff decides and announces (before hearing about Curse) that the Gutter will be closed.
June-August: Discussions begin between the Gutter and the staff to come to a compromise.
August 8th: N_S is banned for posting about Curse in the Gutter (who he got this information from is unclear but to my knowledge it was an anonomous source and it was not yet a forbidden topic). It is something that is new information to nearly everyone and it is soon deleted by Nai.
August 8th: Nai posts in the Gutter explaining that MTGS is to be bought by "someone" (thereby confirming N_S' post which most everyone did not even see) and that the topic should be kept from the general userbase to prevent "chicken-little" syndrome. The gutter questions this logic, but reluctently agrees to keep the secret.
August-September: Compromise talks continue but with little contribution from upper-level staff.
September 21st: Curse comes into the picture and tells the staff "something," which is misinterpreted by the staff to mean that the Gutter MUST be closed and that Curse can not be associated with the decision.
September 21st: Nai tells this information to Kpaca and Kijin who are (understandably) upset that their months of hardwork were for nothing.
September 21st: Kpaca posts in the (hidden) pegging chamber the domain name "Curse.com" and says "Be real with us." His post is taken down, he reposts it, he is banned.
September 21st (I think): Kijin, having seen both of his friends banned from MTGS, posts a long, and rather well thought-out response to their bannings. Included is some information about Curse. He too is banned.
September 21st: Curse comes back to the staff to inform them that it was actually up to them the whole time whether the Gutter would be nuked or not. (lol Romeo and Juliet, amirite?) "oh no, it was a big misunderstanding!"
September 21st-Present): The Gutter is dead, there has been an exodus to another site. The staff has tried to deal with their series of mistakes by claiming misunderstanding and attempting to catch the "leak."
The leak is not the problem (this just in, Nai was the biggest leak in this whole business and he is the best staff member you have).
I believe that some members of the staff were negotiating in good faith, others were not. I believe that this situation was handled extremely poorly. I believe that the three aforementioned bannings were unjust. I believe that this community has lost a great number of its best members and will have trouble recovering. I believe that the culture of heirarchy and rules on MTGS has created a toxic environment that promotes bickering and punishment rather than deplomacy and friendship.
I hope this helps some people understand the timeline a bit better. I constructed it to the best of my knowledge, and if there is something wrong I did not do it intentionally.
Yea I have seen a couple of examples of such plans and this is the kind of stuff I find worrying.
The staff should never be making plots to ban or suspend users, it's disgusting.
The context is huge though. It sounds like people think it went like this:
"User X is really starting to look like a problem, let's ban him"
"No, let's let him post and over moderate so he just gets banned legitimately"
When these are usually:
"User X is really starting to look like a problem. Is banning an option?"
"No, if he is a problem it will manifest itself in his posts and we deal with those posts as is the norm and issue infractions like we always do."
I haven't seen a discretionary ban for something like this since I've been on staff.
2. It's disconcerting that anyone on staff could misinterpret "The Gutter can stay" as meaning "Close The Gutter and lie about it".
It was a fair bit different to that. As corny as it sounds the CoC prevents further clarification, but the conclusion wasn't as unreasonable as you make it sound.
September 21st: Curse comes into the picture and tells the staff "something," which is misinterpreted by the staff to mean that the Gutter MUST be closed and that Curse can not be associated with the decision.
September 21st: Curse comes back to the staff to inform them that it was actually up to them the whole time whether the Gutter would be nuked or not. (lol Romeo and Juliet, amirite?) "oh no, it was a big misunderstanding!"
September 21st: Kpaca posts in the (hidden) pegging chamber the domain name "Curse.com" and says "Be real with us." His post is taken down, he reposts it, he is banned.
September 21st (I think): Kijin, having seen both of his friends banned from MTGS, posts a long, and rather well thought-out response to their bannings. Included is some information about Curse. He too is banned.
Fwiw, the gaps between each are approximately 12h, 1h, and 4h.
It was a fair bit different to that. As corny as it sounds the CoC prevents further clarification, but the conclusion wasn't as unreasonable as you make it sound.
Perhaps I've misunderstood something and am making things sound unreasonable as a result. Could you please help to clarify by answering a few questions?
1. The staff interpreted Curse's original message to mean "You must close The Gutter and lie about the reason it was closed". True or False?
2. The actual meaning of Curse's original message was "You may close The Gutter or leave it open; the decision is yours". True or False?
The context is huge though. It sounds like people think it went like this:
"User X is really starting to look like a problem, let's ban him"
"No, let's let him post and over moderate so he just gets banned legitimately"
When these are usually:
"User X is really starting to look like a problem. Is banning an option?"
"No, if he is a problem it will manifest itself in his posts and we deal with those posts as is the norm and issue infractions like we always do."
I haven't seen a discretionary ban for something like this since I've been on staff.
So I have a question. If I can post something specifically from Mod Lounge that shows you guys have been making such plots to ban "problem" members of this site, am I going to be banned for "leaking" something from the mod lounge?
(Note: I'm not saying "you" did. I think you had the most "Oh ****" response in there and were thinking straight. At the very least, you expected me to be vindictive. But there was a clear attempt to work to ban me, and has been for at least two months.)
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"The above post is the opinion of the poster and is not indicative of any stance taken by the President of the United States, Congress, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, the Department of the Navy, or the United States Marine Corps."
You could PM it to me Fahey, and I'll post it. I've already just made threats to the site's welfare in the staff inbox, so I don't mind.
I would rather not. I took the advice of one of the people in the thread and saved everything off-site. I deleted the actual messages so the gimmick account can't be found, though I have the actual message I was sent screenshotted and saved so I can work with that.
I am interested in working with the staff here. I have been since Day 1. But the staff have shown they are vindictive, and previous threads have shown a penchant for banning for the slightest of reasons if it's a need for damage control. N_S saw this, and he said "**** it, I'll go out in style."
As I have said, any admin or member of the staff can contact me off-site for chatter.
And yes, my inbox has exploded over the past six hours with people wanting answers. I simply cannot give them the answers they seek, but I am working to gather the intelligence and piece together what I can. If the staff will not work with us and instead play "damage control", then the silly masses will ruin anything Hannes wants to do.
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"The above post is the opinion of the poster and is not indicative of any stance taken by the President of the United States, Congress, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, the Department of the Navy, or the United States Marine Corps."
The staff should know by now we all have access to the mod lounge and just start deleting their posts in there as well.
My sources only send me things that specifically deal with myself or something that I am involved in.
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"The above post is the opinion of the poster and is not indicative of any stance taken by the President of the United States, Congress, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, the Department of the Navy, or the United States Marine Corps."
So Gals you deny such things occuring as plotting to suspend a user for not giving staff information they wanted, or for other such tenuous reasons ?
I really do not want to post specifics as it is not constructive and only furthers the rift between community and staff, however I do believe it relevant specifically to the OP post.
This sort of behaviour is clearly unacceptable and no excuses can ever be made for it.
I have never heard of this, and if it were happening, I would want the person out or I would resign. So, as far as I know, no.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Additionally, I'm not sure if it is obvious to the staff yet, but these threats against the site are being conducted by a wholly seperate group from the Gutter and its core members. We have no idea who they are and we have no part in it.
So Gals you deny such things occuring as plotting to suspend a user for not giving staff information they wanted, or for other such tenuous reasons ?
I really do not want to post specifics as it is not constructive and only furthers the rift between community and staff, however I do believe it relevant specifically to the OP post.
This sort of behaviour is clearly unacceptable and no excuses can ever be made for it.
I deny remembering anything like that. I know some comments were made to that effect, but also quickly dismissed. I know that I've joked about things like that when dealing with trouble situations - I am human. But me saying "What if we accidentally delete the Gutter and all it's users" was more a sign of exasperation than a suggestion. I think anyone can see that.
The comment in the OP that Senori made was very very much out of context and appears to sort of mean the opposite of what this meant to make it sound like.
So I have a question. If I can post something specifically from Mod Lounge that shows you guys have been making such plots to ban "problem" members of this site, am I going to be banned for "leaking" something from the mod lounge?
(Note: I'm not saying "you" did. I think you had the most "Oh ****" response in there and were thinking straight. At the very least, you expected me to be vindictive. But there was a clear attempt to work to ban me, and has been for at least two months.)
I can't say, but I know that willingly leaking privileged information is not okay and my guess is that you would be banned. I am willing to share as much as I can - and maybe even more than I should, so if you have something you want to work with I will try.
I will tell you that there are is a variety of people on staff with varying opinions with a few people that are incompetent and/or self-serving. But I also think that the majority are good mods trying to do their jobs for the people they serve. And I think there are a few that are really good at making sure the majority is the voice and actions of the staff - not the people on staff that just want to torch the place.
This last part is because I will not tell you I have not seen suggestions like that, but I can't think of a time where someone says "Let's use our mod access to make their life hard or ban them" and it was taken seriously or as anything but a joke. There are some people with questionable motivations on staff, but that's how it works... just don't listen to them.
I love it when people threaten MTGS, it is my favourite thing to wake up to. Why are you even doing this?
I'm not doing a damn thing. People have been affected by this entire debacle. I have been called a liar and everything but a child of God. I am not happy about being libel'd when people think they can get away with it and I can't see it.
If you seriously are afraid of what people will think if and when something is brough to light, you shouldn't post it. Because eventually, someone makes it public. And you can stop people from finding out about it on these forums, but there's plenty of ways people can find out about it off-site.
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"The above post is the opinion of the poster and is not indicative of any stance taken by the President of the United States, Congress, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, the Department of the Navy, or the United States Marine Corps."
Perhaps I've misunderstood something and am making things sound unreasonable as a result. Could you please help to clarify by answering a few questions?
1. The staff interpreted Curse's original message to mean "You must close The Gutter and lie about the reason it was closed". True or False?
2. The actual meaning of Curse's original message was "You may close The Gutter or leave it open; the decision is yours". True or False?
False.
I may have interpreted it differently, but I didn't see it that way at all.
As seen in Nai's post, the only option wasn't to up and shut it down. Enforced compliance was also on the table, as well as any alternate solution that we came up with.
Unknown.
In addition to the message being cleared up on their end, our position was also clarified for them. However, I doubt it was intended as an ultimatum due to the use of conditional words like 'probably'.
I'm not doing a damn thing. People have been affected by this entire debacle. I have been called a liar and everything but a child of God. I am not happy about being libel'd when people think they can get away with it and I can't see it.
If you seriously are afraid of what people will think if and when something is brough to light, you shouldn't post it. Because eventually, someone makes it public. And you can stop people from finding out about it on these forums, but there's plenty of ways people can find out about it off-site.
Don't pretend you're doing nothing when you're saying that you have sensitive information, handing out your contacts, and warning that the 'masses can destroy everything Hannes is trying to do.' I mean thank you for saying that we can't have any private conversations anymore because that totally works when trying to do something like run a website but really, come on.
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Whatever the initial statement by Curse was, the fact that it was interpreted to mean "close The Gutter and lie about it" is disconcerting.
It's also worth noting that, to those of us without access to the actual conversations, it's very difficult to understand how "The Gutter can stay" -- which ER claims in the OP is Curse's actual position -- could be misinterpreted as "The Gutter will be closed and you will lie about the reason". Those aren't similar.
LOL.
Nai only leaked what someone else already had leaked for the purpose of undermining the staff. Use circular logic all you want, NS and the original leaker are the bad guys here. Their selfish actions in the face of site as a whole are the whole reason we are even having this conversation. If you cannot accept that your friend acted in a selfish and self-centered manner to protect a vast minority, your being blindsided by your friendship.
The mod lounge has never been secure, and when the Globals+ decided it wasn't secure, we were blasted for that as well.
N_S's banning happened long before the unconfirmed rumors you want to so easily dismiss as confirmed fact.
You have no idea what your talking about. I hate what the gutter is at its core with the profanity and racism and trolling. I have always fought for the gutter to remain an club, just a club that follows the rules. There are very few people that ever simply wanted the gutter closed. There has always been the conversation of where to put them when the culture and rules are changed. That never changed, and 12 hours of misinformation is skewing your opinions.
I can affirm this 1000%
The staff was never in charge here, the people who were in charge were those with a personal agenda that threatened the health of Salve. Your so ready to dismiss the facts of the timeframe. 12 hours is not a long time. People sleep, people don't always have the ability to answer. It wasn't clarified, because the INFO WASN'T THERE. Use some logic, please.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
I am not privvy to the conversation, but i assure you that it was all a misunderstanding. I cannot confirm it without breaking COC, but the way it was initially phrased it looked terrible. Terrible enough for someone to not wait for clarification, over-react and leak it to the gutter. That wasn't Nai. Nai's the one who was looking for clarification.
The reason everyone involved other than NS are banned is because someone over-reacted and didn't care to wait for clarification and leaked the OP to the gutter. The in turn over-reacted to the leaked news and decided that the health of the site was not important because of misinformation.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
You can mock me but that doesn't really help the conversation.
You said:
Senori responded to that part of your comment with:
After he explains that your assertion was incorrect, you bring being slighted into it. That was not part of what you or Senori were talking about:
I am not sure how you being slighted had anything to do with his answers, that's all. If there is a connection I am not making I apologize for that, but it seemed to be you stating incorrect facts and him trying to correct that.
A large part of what you are talking about is incomplete information, so asking you to provide specifics wasn't meant to belittle you or anything - I just figure that if I am going to answer a question responsibly, the details being questioned need to be laid out.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
And out of context quotes are cool and all, but reading what BS said would be better.
I absolutely believe that it was a misunderstanding. I just hope you guys realize a few things:
1. It's very difficult to understand how two vastly different -- indeed, diametrically opposed -- positions could be conflated with one another.
2. It's disconcerting that anyone on staff could misinterpret "The Gutter can stay" as meaning "Close The Gutter and lie about it".
3. It's disconcerting that enough time passed for the issue to filter through three different staff lounges before anyone thought to go back to Curse.
NS was told that there was a plan to get him banned and that he would start getting retroactive infractions to build up another suspension and eventually a ban, along with the info he was fed about Curse. He initially dismissed these messages as trolling, until two of his not-so-recent posts were infracted. Being on the verge of a ban, as he believed it to be a fact, he only shared the info he had gotten that directly affected all of the Gutter with... just the Gutter (that place only the members of the Gutter can see). No thread in CI, no Reddit, no SCG. That was deemed "malicious" and got him banned anyway (which I personally interpreted as means to repress anyone else from saying anything about it outside of the Gutter) while at the same time the information he gave about the sale was confirmed by Nai.
So, I resent that you call him the bad guy in that situation. I said earlier that banning him was a mistake. I also think it was very wrong.
My YouTube Channel
I hope this helps some people understand the timeline a bit better. I constructed it to the best of my knowledge, and if there is something wrong I did not do it intentionally.
-imopen2
The context is huge though. It sounds like people think it went like this:
"User X is really starting to look like a problem, let's ban him"
"No, let's let him post and over moderate so he just gets banned legitimately"
When these are usually:
"User X is really starting to look like a problem. Is banning an option?"
"No, if he is a problem it will manifest itself in his posts and we deal with those posts as is the norm and issue infractions like we always do."
I haven't seen a discretionary ban for something like this since I've been on staff.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
It was a fair bit different to that. As corny as it sounds the CoC prevents further clarification, but the conclusion wasn't as unreasonable as you make it sound.
Squishy.
I was unaware of this ever occurring.
Edit: Also the order of these is:
Fwiw, the gaps between each are approximately 12h, 1h, and 4h.
Perhaps I've misunderstood something and am making things sound unreasonable as a result. Could you please help to clarify by answering a few questions?
1. The staff interpreted Curse's original message to mean "You must close The Gutter and lie about the reason it was closed". True or False?
2. The actual meaning of Curse's original message was "You may close The Gutter or leave it open; the decision is yours". True or False?
So I have a question. If I can post something specifically from Mod Lounge that shows you guys have been making such plots to ban "problem" members of this site, am I going to be banned for "leaking" something from the mod lounge?
(Note: I'm not saying "you" did. I think you had the most "Oh ****" response in there and were thinking straight. At the very least, you expected me to be vindictive. But there was a clear attempt to work to ban me, and has been for at least two months.)
Captain, United States Marines
"Peace through superior firepower."
I would rather not. I took the advice of one of the people in the thread and saved everything off-site. I deleted the actual messages so the gimmick account can't be found, though I have the actual message I was sent screenshotted and saved so I can work with that.
I am interested in working with the staff here. I have been since Day 1. But the staff have shown they are vindictive, and previous threads have shown a penchant for banning for the slightest of reasons if it's a need for damage control. N_S saw this, and he said "**** it, I'll go out in style."
As I have said, any admin or member of the staff can contact me off-site for chatter.
AIM: ardentxofxmind
YIM: FaheyUSMC
Skype: FaheyUSMC
And yes, my inbox has exploded over the past six hours with people wanting answers. I simply cannot give them the answers they seek, but I am working to gather the intelligence and piece together what I can. If the staff will not work with us and instead play "damage control", then the silly masses will ruin anything Hannes wants to do.
Captain, United States Marines
"Peace through superior firepower."
My sources only send me things that specifically deal with myself or something that I am involved in.
Captain, United States Marines
"Peace through superior firepower."
I have never heard of this, and if it were happening, I would want the person out or I would resign. So, as far as I know, no.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
The comment in the OP that Senori made was very very much out of context and appears to sort of mean the opposite of what this meant to make it sound like.
I can't say, but I know that willingly leaking privileged information is not okay and my guess is that you would be banned. I am willing to share as much as I can - and maybe even more than I should, so if you have something you want to work with I will try.
I will tell you that there are is a variety of people on staff with varying opinions with a few people that are incompetent and/or self-serving. But I also think that the majority are good mods trying to do their jobs for the people they serve. And I think there are a few that are really good at making sure the majority is the voice and actions of the staff - not the people on staff that just want to torch the place.
This last part is because I will not tell you I have not seen suggestions like that, but I can't think of a time where someone says "Let's use our mod access to make their life hard or ban them" and it was taken seriously or as anything but a joke. There are some people with questionable motivations on staff, but that's how it works... just don't listen to them.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I'm not doing a damn thing. People have been affected by this entire debacle. I have been called a liar and everything but a child of God. I am not happy about being libel'd when people think they can get away with it and I can't see it.
If you seriously are afraid of what people will think if and when something is brough to light, you shouldn't post it. Because eventually, someone makes it public. And you can stop people from finding out about it on these forums, but there's plenty of ways people can find out about it off-site.
Captain, United States Marines
"Peace through superior firepower."
False.
I may have interpreted it differently, but I didn't see it that way at all.
As seen in Nai's post, the only option wasn't to up and shut it down. Enforced compliance was also on the table, as well as any alternate solution that we came up with.
Unknown.
In addition to the message being cleared up on their end, our position was also clarified for them. However, I doubt it was intended as an ultimatum due to the use of conditional words like 'probably'.
Don't pretend you're doing nothing when you're saying that you have sensitive information, handing out your contacts, and warning that the 'masses can destroy everything Hannes is trying to do.' I mean thank you for saying that we can't have any private conversations anymore because that totally works when trying to do something like run a website but really, come on.