I'm actually fairly surprised by the prices listed here. I've considered getting cards altered but never looked into it, assuming that the prices would just be absurd. Prices like 20-30 dollars a card don't seem too bad. It seems fairly reasonable given the fact that art materials are actually kind of expensive and it is a very unusual skill to be able to paint on such a small scale.
Granted, this is basing my view on the quality of some of the regular alterers I've seen on the altered art thread. My perusing other websites for altered cards resulted in mostly crap and/or half naked women.
But it was close. It was near to turn into a philosophical discussion about the professionalism of altering cards, wich could be interesting, but I think it deserves a new trhead. I came into this one looking for a price chat and nothing else.
Talking about prices, I think this matter is just reduced to particullar situations, because I see few if none constants here. Taking Ebay as an example, you'll see a simple (and some times, untidy) extension of a BoP being sold at 50-70 dollars, then an amazing original full art winter-themed altered BoP being sold for less than or the same price as a nonaltered one. It just has no sense. So, the price is something that's arranged and agreed (or not) between the artist and the client, and ranges from case to case. it is not usual, but there are some constants you can observe, as an example, at Ebay: It is a fact that a very polished work made on a basic land by a renowned alterer is worth enough 20+ bucks (it happens in almost the auctions of Marta Molina.)
Price concerning altered art is very varying on ebay because you bid on something that wasn't made for you. I myself only have altered cards in one deck, because it's so expensive to have altered art cards in all your decks. If an altered art card goes up on ebay and i'm going to pay 30$ for it, i have to find a use for it. Which means it has to fit into my EDH deck, and it has to be a card that i haven't already had altered. If it doesn't fulfill these requirements it has to be pretty darn amazing. Now half of my deck is altered and some are foiled which i wouldn't want altered. This leaves about 20 cards in the existence of magic that i really want altered.
Now think about the fact that everyone who wants altered art usually has some pimp already. If they see a nice altered Skithyrix (a card which isn't so hard to find foiled) it's less likely that they will go in a bidding war for that card because they could rather pimp something they haven't already pimped. And to get high prices on ebay, you need to have a bidding war. If you've become a brand artist, this changes (look @ Cardkitty).
I do think that the awesome alterers on this site put out their work on ebay @ a to low price. You should always put out the card on ebay for the cards cost + 5$ atleast. If you put it out at 1$ you can get severely screwed if you put out a expensive card, and it can be incredibly disheartening.
Selling alternation on Ebay sucks and I tried once(sold swamp van gogh for 50 bucks) and got ripped off. Also prices there are misery.
How did you get ripped off? I once sold a nice Zendikar Plains for like 30$ on Ebay, but the guy with the winning bid refused to pay. Told me afterwards there's now way he could afford to pay so much for a Plains
My commission rates start around $20.00 (some less) to $60.00, depending on how complicated the alter is (how much time I think it will take me).
There is a lot more to altering cards then just being able to do quality work .
It takes a high level of trust and a great reputation for a customer to feel comfortable enough to mail you hundreds of dollars in cards from all round the world.
This part of the job takes just as much work and happens over a long period of time ( thus building a name).
Now the famous auction site, that is a whole other world. You win some and loss some , but on the most part it evens out in the long run ( with a lot of trial and error).
My commission rate is between $30 and $50, depending on the cost of the cards I'm cutting up to make the 3D and how complicated the art is. I usually charge less for more expensive cards since, for instance, just the cards for a 3D Sliver Overlord would be about $35.
However, I am by no means trying to run a business - I'm supporting my hobby. I usually put 5-8 hours into each card (and up to 20), each card uses up $3-$5 of supplies (blades/paint/marker/glue), and S&H runs me about $3 (180PT toploaders, padded envelope, delivery confirmation). I'd be cutting up cards even if nobody else liked them so having someone else provide the cards is just bonus.
(That said, I think that the rates others charge are completely justified. I'm not trying to get into that part of the conversation here - just wanted to list where I'm at and realized it might sound like I'm on the other "side" so I'm clarifying with this addendum.)
Hello again and sorry for the late reply
I see that this thread becomes interesting to see many perspective on determining altering price!
Just wanna let you know the final decision on my altered card prices, I altered four cards for my LGS owner including the Mana Vault on page 2, he didn't give me money, but instead a free New Phyrexia pre-release (the cost is about $24) and a free box of upcoming Commander product (around $30 if I'm not mistaken). I think that's fair enough for me, so it seals the deal
I know I don't receive any money, but since I planned on going to the pre-release and getting a box of Commander, I think it's just the same as receiving money. For future alters I will try to get some real cash
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
Trading alters for cards is usually one of the best ways to gain money.
Really, someone should do a 'red paperclip blog' for altering.
Hypothetical...
Foil Island (0.25)
Paint anime girl on it, sell on eBay ($30.00)
Buy Sol Ring, Top, and a playset of Sqaudron Hawks ($0.00)
Paint and sell Sol Ring and Top, then paint something on playset of Hawks and thrade them for a Primeval, a Frost, an Inkmoth, and a Phyrexian Crusader ($80 and $45 in cards that would paint for $80 or so)
etc
etc
etc
UBg Legacy deck
Trading alters for cards is usually one of the best ways to gain money.
Really, someone should do a 'red paperclip blog' for altering.
Hypothetical...
Foil Island (0.25)
Paint anime girl on it, sell on eBay ($30.00)
Buy Sol Ring, Top, and a playset of Sqaudron Hawks ($0.00)
Paint and sell Sol Ring and Top, then paint something on playset of Hawks and thrade them for a Primeval, a Frost, an Inkmoth, and a Phyrexian Crusader ($80 and $45 in cards that would paint for $80 or so)
etc
etc
etc
UBg Legacy deck
This is a pretty good idea, and part of my plan to get rid of the alters I do.
I recently traded a playset of altered Squadron Hawks for a Guru Mountain.
I think the issue is that on Ebay, you can get good cards from very good artists for a lot less than the cost of a commission and thus people are less inclined to pay those costs. For example I look at cardkitty's ebay pretty much every 2 days. Over the last month I have spent about $60 probably on some really really good alters. However, if I wanted them commisioned, it would easily be closer to $200. That is not always a good motivator to get it done I guess.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I just think that artists should use ebay more as a judge of what they should charge, not what they think their time is worth. Maybe the auctions average out to a reasonable price and maybe they don't, and I don't have the means to calculate the averages for every alterer, but it does seem like they should charge slightly less than their auction averages, simply because it's guaranteed cash.
And let's not forget, with someone like cardkitty, although the quality is generally on the higher end of the spectrum, you are definitely "paying for the label".
Trading alters for cards is usually one of the best ways to gain money.
Really, someone should do a 'red paperclip blog' for altering.
Hypothetical...
Foil Island (0.25)
Paint anime girl on it, sell on eBay ($30.00)
Buy Sol Ring, Top, and a playset of Sqaudron Hawks ($0.00)
Paint and sell Sol Ring and Top, then paint something on playset of Hawks and thrade them for a Primeval, a Frost, an Inkmoth, and a Phyrexian Crusader ($80 and $45 in cards that would paint for $80 or so)
etc
etc
etc
UBg Legacy deck
Yeah, that's pretty cool. It's kind of like:
Go to work ($0)
Do your work (+ $alary)
Buy house (-$)
Buy car (-$)
etc
etc
Respectable life
I just think that artists should use ebay more as a judge of what they should charge, not what they think their time is worth.
Of course you charge what you think your time is worth.
Since you put painting for profit into normal life terms, let's stick with that. When you get hired at a normal job, your employer might offer you a fair market salary. You can take it, or you can say "I'm worth more, pay me more or I'm moving on." Your boss can then either pay you more or hire someone else for that fair market salary.
Of course you charge what you think your time is worth.
Since you put painting for profit into normal life terms, let's stick with that. When you get hired at a normal job, your employer might offer you a fair market salary. You can take it, or you can say "I'm worth more, pay me more or I'm moving on." Your boss can then either pay you more or hire someone else for that fair market salary.
That's pretty much what's going on here.
Of course of course they want to charge what they think their time is worth. It's just that I think most of the buyers wouldn't agree on that worth. Since should is the operative word, it's obviously just an opinion.
You may have missed this post, but here is what I'm saying:
For the most part, I think a lot of the artists currently doing alters couldn't survive as professional painters, so charging a professional rate (even if it's just minimum wage or slightly over) is not completely realistic, and it seems ebay bidders tend to agree with that, judging by their bidding tendencies.
Of course of course they want to charge what they think their time is worth. It's just that I think most of the buyers wouldn't agree on that worth. Since should is the operative word, it's obviously just an opinion.
Your reasoning ist still weird and makes little sense. First of, the fewest card alterers here are real artists who do this for a living. If they were well-known artists, they would charge many, many times more than the rates mentioned in this thread, so talking about "professional rates", let alone criticizing that few dollars seems really out of place.
Second of all, commissioning someone is asking for a very exclusive service and of course that's more expensive than selling altered stuff on a site like ebay to random folk. Of course rates depend on quality as well and someone who just started altering obviously shouldnt charge the hell for a commission. Most offers on ebay are pretty low quality btw.
Apart from that, you can surely have your opinion. Try to get a commission from someone here with your idea of pricing and tell us about the results. Good luck with that
Seriously, I could have WAY more commissions than I can handle if I accepted every one I got.
People are practically breaking down my door at my prices. I'm not sure why you think everyone things commission rates are too high.
This has been a pretty interesting conversation. I never actually knew how much others charged. I know once or twice in the official altered art thread prices have come up, but never in quite this much detail.
As for the whole argument over whether or not the prices are too high, I figured I'd put in my two cents - they're really not charging enough.
Here's my personal experience - I started altering for my own enjoyment, but as no one locally had seen anything like it, I got a few commissions. I only charged ten bucks and then realized it wasn't nearly enough. I bumped up to $15 and then $20, and then I quit taking commissions altogether. Why? Because I'm working two jobs to support a family of five while trying on the side to get funding for a feature film I wrote. I have a list of almost one hundred alters that I want to do for my own collection, of which I've only found the time to do one in the past six months. If I trade or sell an alter, I ABSOLUTELY have to take into account how much time it took me when assigning a value. Not because I want to be a professional - but because in all things there is an opportunity cost.
If someone wanted me to do a commission that takes two, four, or eight hours, the opportunity cost is what else I could have done with that time. A quick alter could be done instead of my weekly EDH night, but a longer one may occupy all of my family time for a week. And you can bet that that's going to demand a much higher price.
As for using ebay to judge prices - that's a terrible measuring stick. I've sold cards (unaltered) for the going rate before, but I've also had auctions for two planeswalkers go for just the starting bid of 99 cents. It's too unpredictable to use as a standard.
I get one or two commissions a month and I would recommend shopping prices.
I commissioned a play set of old school lightning bolts and the cost ranged from $58.00 to $130.00 (including N/M cards and shipping).
I might have been able to get them cheaper, but wanted to keep with one of the better known alterers.
The new data base helps a lot.
Seriously, I could have WAY more commissions than I can handle if I accepted every one I got.
People are practically breaking down my door at my prices. I'm not sure why you think everyone things commission rates are too high.
No kidding. There is a demand out there that is not being satisfied. I've painted 3 cards in the last year and I still get emails and PMs 2-3 times a week asking for painted cards. I would imagine that someone like you could almost make a full-time job out of it and charge fair prices instead of "hobby prices."
Sorry if I upset anyone with my opinion; I was just trying to express why I don't pay for alters as much as I'd like to, and why others might feel the same. I'm sure there are plenty of people with the cash to keep artists like yawg in the black for a long time.
I am relatively new to selling and trading my alters, but I have started receiving alot of commisions and trades for my work in my city (thanks to the manager of our biggest game store in San Antonio letting me have a section for my alters on his wall). I am not as well known as Yawg or Klug (nor as talented), but I find it easy to charge 15-20 for basic extensions/partial, 20-25 for textless and 20-30 for anything special (pop art/frameless/alternate art) and usually get around the same in trade.
Currently Playing Modern :symu::0mana:Sundering-Architect:0mana::symu: EDH :symr::symg::symw:Uril the Miststalker:symw::symg::symr:/:symb::symg::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain:symw::symg::symb: Legacy :symr:Burn:symr:
No kidding. There is a demand out there that is not being satisfied. I've painted 3 cards in the last year and I still get emails and PMs 2-3 times a week asking for painted cards. I would imagine that someone like you could almost make a full-time job out of it and charge fair prices instead of "hobby prices."
I guess this would depends on how much money you think a good full time job makes $30,000.00 a year, very low end . LOL
It might be an OK secondary job.
I thought it was neat to get a Mana Crypt for two foil basic swamps (+ some paint)=). When people ask me for prices I usually say $20 for easy stuff and more if its a job which takes 2-3h+.
I am scheduled to be one of two feature artists at the second stop on the Canadian Magic Tour in Ottawa. For reference here is the website, http://www.mtgottawa.com/artists.html . This is the first time I have done something like this and I am curious if anybody here had any experience working a big tournament venue as an alter artist. It is being held at the Ottawa Senators' arena which is cool for a hockey fan like me.
Some questions,
1. What kind of pricing structure works for these things?
2. Is there more demand generated by peer pressure (for lack of a better term) to get a cool card before a friend?
3. If so is there a way to profit from that? For example should I bump my usual prices a bit or drop my price to encourage bulk purchases.
4. How do you charge for commisions that you are expected to complete same day?
5. I have a booth at the venue for 3 days and I am worried that I will run out of product. I will have about 25 extenstions and a dozen or so full art. What kind of volume typically sells at something like this? Should I be worried?
6. Is there anything exceptional that I should be prepared for that I am likely not?
Argh. This was not supposed to be a stress but that is what it is turning into.
Thanks for your answers. I would appreciate any serious advice.
Granted, this is basing my view on the quality of some of the regular alterers I've seen on the altered art thread. My perusing other websites for altered cards resulted in mostly crap and/or half naked women.
Talking about prices, I think this matter is just reduced to particullar situations, because I see few if none constants here. Taking Ebay as an example, you'll see a simple (and some times, untidy) extension of a BoP being sold at 50-70 dollars, then an amazing original full art winter-themed altered BoP being sold for less than or the same price as a nonaltered one. It just has no sense. So, the price is something that's arranged and agreed (or not) between the artist and the client, and ranges from case to case. it is not usual, but there are some constants you can observe, as an example, at Ebay: It is a fact that a very polished work made on a basic land by a renowned alterer is worth enough 20+ bucks (it happens in almost the auctions of Marta Molina.)
Now think about the fact that everyone who wants altered art usually has some pimp already. If they see a nice altered Skithyrix (a card which isn't so hard to find foiled) it's less likely that they will go in a bidding war for that card because they could rather pimp something they haven't already pimped. And to get high prices on ebay, you need to have a bidding war. If you've become a brand artist, this changes (look @ Cardkitty).
I do think that the awesome alterers on this site put out their work on ebay @ a to low price. You should always put out the card on ebay for the cards cost + 5$ atleast. If you put it out at 1$ you can get severely screwed if you put out a expensive card, and it can be incredibly disheartening.
How did you get ripped off? I once sold a nice Zendikar Plains for like 30$ on Ebay, but the guy with the winning bid refused to pay. Told me afterwards there's now way he could afford to pay so much for a Plains
My gallery of altered cards
There is a lot more to altering cards then just being able to do quality work .
It takes a high level of trust and a great reputation for a customer to feel comfortable enough to mail you hundreds of dollars in cards from all round the world.
This part of the job takes just as much work and happens over a long period of time ( thus building a name).
Now the famous auction site, that is a whole other world. You win some and loss some , but on the most part it evens out in the long run ( with a lot of trial and error).
Check Out My Card Gallery
However, I am by no means trying to run a business - I'm supporting my hobby. I usually put 5-8 hours into each card (and up to 20), each card uses up $3-$5 of supplies (blades/paint/marker/glue), and S&H runs me about $3 (180PT toploaders, padded envelope, delivery confirmation). I'd be cutting up cards even if nobody else liked them so having someone else provide the cards is just bonus.
(That said, I think that the rates others charge are completely justified. I'm not trying to get into that part of the conversation here - just wanted to list where I'm at and realized it might sound like I'm on the other "side" so I'm clarifying with this addendum.)
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
I see that this thread becomes interesting to see many perspective on determining altering price!
Just wanna let you know the final decision on my altered card prices, I altered four cards for my LGS owner including the Mana Vault on page 2, he didn't give me money, but instead a free New Phyrexia pre-release (the cost is about $24) and a free box of upcoming Commander product (around $30 if I'm not mistaken). I think that's fair enough for me, so it seals the deal
I know I don't receive any money, but since I planned on going to the pre-release and getting a box of Commander, I think it's just the same as receiving money. For future alters I will try to get some real cash
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Really, someone should do a 'red paperclip blog' for altering.
Hypothetical...
Foil Island (0.25)
Paint anime girl on it, sell on eBay ($30.00)
Buy Sol Ring, Top, and a playset of Sqaudron Hawks ($0.00)
Paint and sell Sol Ring and Top, then paint something on playset of Hawks and thrade them for a Primeval, a Frost, an Inkmoth, and a Phyrexian Crusader ($80 and $45 in cards that would paint for $80 or so)
etc
etc
etc
UBg Legacy deck
This is a pretty good idea, and part of my plan to get rid of the alters I do.
I recently traded a playset of altered Squadron Hawks for a Guru Mountain.
$2 + tons of time = $40 card
http://cup-a-swamp.com
:::My serious side:::
http://baddeacondesign.com/blog
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I just think that artists should use ebay more as a judge of what they should charge, not what they think their time is worth. Maybe the auctions average out to a reasonable price and maybe they don't, and I don't have the means to calculate the averages for every alterer, but it does seem like they should charge slightly less than their auction averages, simply because it's guaranteed cash.
And let's not forget, with someone like cardkitty, although the quality is generally on the higher end of the spectrum, you are definitely "paying for the label".
Yeah, that's pretty cool. It's kind of like:
Go to work ($0)
Do your work (+ $alary)
Buy house (-$)
Buy car (-$)
etc
etc
Respectable life
Of course you charge what you think your time is worth.
Since you put painting for profit into normal life terms, let's stick with that. When you get hired at a normal job, your employer might offer you a fair market salary. You can take it, or you can say "I'm worth more, pay me more or I'm moving on." Your boss can then either pay you more or hire someone else for that fair market salary.
That's pretty much what's going on here.
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
Of course of course they want to charge what they think their time is worth. It's just that I think most of the buyers wouldn't agree on that worth. Since should is the operative word, it's obviously just an opinion.
You may have missed this post, but here is what I'm saying:
Your reasoning ist still weird and makes little sense. First of, the fewest card alterers here are real artists who do this for a living. If they were well-known artists, they would charge many, many times more than the rates mentioned in this thread, so talking about "professional rates", let alone criticizing that few dollars seems really out of place.
Second of all, commissioning someone is asking for a very exclusive service and of course that's more expensive than selling altered stuff on a site like ebay to random folk. Of course rates depend on quality as well and someone who just started altering obviously shouldnt charge the hell for a commission. Most offers on ebay are pretty low quality btw.
Apart from that, you can surely have your opinion. Try to get a commission from someone here with your idea of pricing and tell us about the results. Good luck with that
My gallery of altered cards
People are practically breaking down my door at my prices. I'm not sure why you think everyone things commission rates are too high.
As for the whole argument over whether or not the prices are too high, I figured I'd put in my two cents - they're really not charging enough.
Here's my personal experience - I started altering for my own enjoyment, but as no one locally had seen anything like it, I got a few commissions. I only charged ten bucks and then realized it wasn't nearly enough. I bumped up to $15 and then $20, and then I quit taking commissions altogether. Why? Because I'm working two jobs to support a family of five while trying on the side to get funding for a feature film I wrote. I have a list of almost one hundred alters that I want to do for my own collection, of which I've only found the time to do one in the past six months. If I trade or sell an alter, I ABSOLUTELY have to take into account how much time it took me when assigning a value. Not because I want to be a professional - but because in all things there is an opportunity cost.
If someone wanted me to do a commission that takes two, four, or eight hours, the opportunity cost is what else I could have done with that time. A quick alter could be done instead of my weekly EDH night, but a longer one may occupy all of my family time for a week. And you can bet that that's going to demand a much higher price.
As for using ebay to judge prices - that's a terrible measuring stick. I've sold cards (unaltered) for the going rate before, but I've also had auctions for two planeswalkers go for just the starting bid of 99 cents. It's too unpredictable to use as a standard.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
I commissioned a play set of old school lightning bolts and the cost ranged from $58.00 to $130.00 (including N/M cards and shipping).
I might have been able to get them cheaper, but wanted to keep with one of the better known alterers.
The new data base helps a lot.
No kidding. There is a demand out there that is not being satisfied. I've painted 3 cards in the last year and I still get emails and PMs 2-3 times a week asking for painted cards. I would imagine that someone like you could almost make a full-time job out of it and charge fair prices instead of "hobby prices."
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Modern
:symu::0mana:Sundering-Architect:0mana::symu:
EDH
:symr::symg::symw:Uril the Miststalker:symw::symg::symr:/:symb::symg::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain:symw::symg::symb:
Legacy
:symr:Burn:symr:
My Cube
Some of my Alters
My Trades (retired)
My Sales
I guess this would depends on how much money you think a good full time job makes $30,000.00 a year, very low end . LOL
It might be an OK secondary job.
Id that!
Trade with me, h:Alters and EdhFoils:)
Cards I have altered
Some questions,
1. What kind of pricing structure works for these things?
2. Is there more demand generated by peer pressure (for lack of a better term) to get a cool card before a friend?
3. If so is there a way to profit from that? For example should I bump my usual prices a bit or drop my price to encourage bulk purchases.
4. How do you charge for commisions that you are expected to complete same day?
5. I have a booth at the venue for 3 days and I am worried that I will run out of product. I will have about 25 extenstions and a dozen or so full art. What kind of volume typically sells at something like this? Should I be worried?
6. Is there anything exceptional that I should be prepared for that I am likely not?
Argh. This was not supposed to be a stress but that is what it is turning into.
Thanks for your answers. I would appreciate any serious advice.