Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Alright, I suppose that last one was too specific. The only way you'll get it is if you recognize the Shakespeare quote used in the card's text.
Here's a better one though for the true Magic enthusiast... This question was inspired by this thread (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=369116). Unfortunately nobody cracked the riddle and figured out a first turn one card win in time before the thread was closed. I've since sent a private message with a correct answer to the moderator who closed the thread thinking there was way it could possibly be done. He hasn't responded or re-opened the thread yet, so I figured I'd just ask it here as a trivia question.
After lots of critical thinking, I figured the only way it could possibly work is in an Archenemy game for ante, where Player A would cast Show and Tell on the first turn using Black Lotus (or an island + Mana Crypt), allowing Player B (his teammate) to play Amulet of Quoz for free, at which point Player B could activate the ability and win the game for his team by winning the coin flip after the Archenemy declines to ante an additional card to counter the effect. Then I realized it couldn't work that way because the amulet's ability can only be activated during it's controller's upkeep, so in theory, a player could only win a game on their first turn with one card (the amulet) if their opponent starts the game and casts Show and Tell, allowing them (the player who isn't starting the game) to play the amulet, then activate its ability on the following turn during their first upkeep.
Now disregard all that and clear your minds, because there are actually other ways for a player to win a game on their first turn with just one card (that isn't the amulet mentioned above). It may seem impossible, but I guarantee you it's not! Call it an epiphany if you will, but I figured out two, that's right...TWO ways a player could win a two player game without ante on their first turn with just one card. Don't believe me? I honestly don't blame you. But once I tell you you'll have no choice but to accept the highly unlikely truth. Now there may be more than two ways to do it, but if there are, I haven't figured them out yet. And no, they don't involve the other player conceding during the first turn in case that's what you're thinking.
One way works in Vintage, Legacy, Classic, EDH, and Modern formats.
The second only works in EDH format.
Can you figure out either?...or possibly even both? If so, I'll be very very impressed and you'll get much respect.
Remember, I'm asking you to crack the ultimate riddle, and figure out how a player could win the game during their first turn with just one single card.
Again...This is NOT a trick question, it most definitely IS possible.
If you think you know either correct answer, either private message me or limit your responses to spoiler windows, that way others can continue to work their brains without being given either answer.
Good Luck
*Note that neither answer involves illegal cards (from Unglued or Unhinged such as The Cheese Stands Alone), a Vanguard card, an Archenemy Scheme card, a custom-made card, nor multiple copies of the same card (such as an opening hand with seven copies of Chancellor of the Dross). When I say ONE card, I literally mean one physical object, so you can't play a Mountain, a Mox Ruby, a Lotus Petal, or discard a Simian Spirit Guide in order to cast Mana Clash and hope to keep flipping coins until your opponent loses 20 life. That was a good guess, but it's not one of the answers I'm looking for. The answer isn't practical and is far from obvious, but it still exists. Nothing is impossible if you have an open mind.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
An ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Some abilities cause a source to do something rather than the ability. Any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. If the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in, its last known information is used.
that requires you to use tons of cards, as opposed to one
Exactly. Although I have to admit that the complicated sequence he described is a rather creative first turn kill. Your guess was the closest so far, except that it required a second card to cast. Did you want me to PM you one of the correct answers yet? Are you stumped, or would you rather keep guessing?
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Exactly. Although I have to admit that the complicated sequence he described is a rather creative first turn kill. Your guess was the closest so far, except that it required a second card to cast. Did you want me to PM you one of the correct answers yet? Are you stumped, or would you rather keep guessing?
I'd rather keep guessing, but one point of clarification: does the kill require your opponent to do anything on their turn? (eg Black Lotus, Mountain, Donate the mountain would let you get the Mana Clash win on turn 1 with only 1 card)
Yeah I'm not convinced there is a way to kill someone on turn 1 with 1 card in hand with no permanents, no library, and no mana in your mana pool. I offered a solution that wins with a library of cards, but I do not believe you can without it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Some abilities cause a source to do something rather than the ability. Any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. If the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in, its last known information is used.
in the original thread he linked to, the question was to win first turn only casting one spell. There are tons of ways to do that, so the idea was using the least cards.
Mana Clash was a good guess, but it still requires a mountain Mox Ruby, Lotus Petal, Simian Spirit Guide, or another card which produces red mana to cast.
Unfortunately, I can't give any hints or clues without giving away the answers, but I'll say that both of these single-card first-turn win methods have something in common. Try to think four dimensionally...
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
You say they are legal in various formats, so I assume that means that you only 'use' one card, but still have a hand of 7 and a library? You just aren't allowed to depend on the identity of any of those other cards, right?
I'm sure this isn't what you're thinking of, but if we formalize the rules as "Your opponent could conceivably be understood to be playing to win, but you may depend on stuff they do", then they could be playing a Mirror Universe deck, go off on turn 1, play Time Walk, reduce themselves to 1, Mirror Universe in their 2nd (or whateverth) upkeep, and in response you Gut Shot them.
Your T1: Upkeep, opponent sacs Black Lotus and casts Plagiarize. In response, you cast Surgical Extraction, going to 18 and targeting eir Relentless Rats. The rest of eir hand and library is revealed to consist entirely of 55 more Relentless Rats, all of which are exiled. In your draw step, they lose.
Oh, is it because it's a Karn-restarted-game first turn, and the 1 card is a previously exiled Serra Avatar?
Finally someone's on the right track!
The game has to be restarted with Karn Liberated in order to get a first turn one card win. Unfortunately Serra Avatar isn't the card I was looking for that was previously exiled, however, now that I think about it, technically that would be correct answer #3 since it would be in play prior to the upkeep phase which means it wouldn't have summoning sickness and would be able to attack on the first turn. Good job in finding a right answer!
WARNING: ANSWERS below!....Can you resist the temptation to open the spoiler?
One way a player can win with just one card on the first turn (during their upkeep) is if they mulligan their hand down to zero cards, and start the game with Barren Glory in play under their control.
...And now the million dollar question: How is this possible if Barren Glory costs six mana to cast, and you can't use another card to produce mana?
Answer: You don't even need to cast it!
Here's the explanation: The game was previously restarted with Karn Liberated's third -14 ability the turn (or two turns) after he exiled Barren Glory from it's controller's hand. Karn only starts with 6 loyalty counters, so in order to get up to 14 loyalty counters and restart the game, Karn's controller can either wait two turns after casting Karn to restart by exiling an additional non-permanent card from a player's hand, or his controller can proliferate twice on the turn he comes into play (in addition to using his +4 ability) as well as the following turn (using Contagion Engine or two other cards which each proliferate once) prior to using the -14 ability.
It's one of those rare exceptional situations where you can travel back in time and restart the game, but most players seem to neglect that it's even possible or beneficial because they don't realize the abstract nature of Karn's potential.
The second way to do this (which only works in EDH format) is if a player has Felidar Sovereign in play under their control at the beginning of the game, which as you know by now got there the same way using Karn. Keep in mind that in EDH, each player begins the game with 40 life.
It may sound like an unorthodox and unconventional way to win a game, but try it against an opponent, watch their jaw drop, and then ask them if they've ever been beaten by a more creative combo deck
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
I do hope the answer isn't Karn, that would be a pretty weak definition of "one card" imo.
I know what you're saying, and even though it may seem like a trick question, or a poor definition of "one card", technically the restarted game doesn't take anything previously done into account.
Upon restarting, the game state simply has no memory of cards or actions previously used in order to achieve the current state, as everything done prior has essentially been annulled. As humans, the players involved in such a scenario might find it impossible to omit the knowledge regarding what happened previously, and it may be difficult for anyone to claim ignorance as to why another card is already in play at the beginning of said game. However, all the game (or a computer platform monitoring and running the game) knows is that players are rolling to see who starts, shuffling their decks, cutting their opponent's deck, using (or not using) the option to mulligan, and that it's turn one for whoever is starting. The game wouldn't care why or require an explanation as to how a (or several) card(s) is (or are) in play as the new game starts.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Suppose I ran a 2CB variant round in which every Magic card that has ever been printed was legal to play. Name at least two decks that could go 6-0 against their mirror match under certain circumstances, and name those circumstances. (i can think of 3, but there are probably more)
What are the rules for things like Granny's Payback? If we can somehow find out the age of the players, Granny's Payback + Copper Tablet/Impatience/Forsaken Wastes/The Rack/etc all work.
Chaos Orb, a card flip isn't truly random, it can be aimed and such, so it doesn't fall under the random doing bad stuff rule. And beacuse the cards are represented by text it's really easy to set the font really small and cover them all.
Suppose I ran a 2CB variant round in which every Magic card that has ever been printed was legal to play. Name at least two decks that could go 6-0 against their mirror match under certain circumstances, and name those circumstances. (i can think of 3, but there are probably more)
Avatar of Me / Island
(Michael Jordan would 6-0 Gary Cooper.)
Such a quick response...Well done!
I would have also accepted Invincible Hymn, and Beacon of Immortality for #3, and I would have even accepted Shahrazad for #7
Now, can you name four creatures with two or more heads, two carnivores, and one omnivore?
1. Two-Headed Giant of Foriys, Two-Headed Sliver, Double Header, Two-Headed Dragon
2. Carnivorous Plant, Carnivorous Death-Parrot
3. Hydra Omnivore
Nice. I would've also accepted Rock Hydra which usually comes into play with two or more +1/+1 "head" counters.
Now, do you know what creatures eat like wolves and fight like devils?
(hint: think King Henry the Fifth)
Here's a better one though for the true Magic enthusiast... This question was inspired by this thread (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=369116). Unfortunately nobody cracked the riddle and figured out a first turn one card win in time before the thread was closed. I've since sent a private message with a correct answer to the moderator who closed the thread thinking there was way it could possibly be done. He hasn't responded or re-opened the thread yet, so I figured I'd just ask it here as a trivia question.
After lots of critical thinking, I figured the only way it could possibly work is in an Archenemy game for ante, where Player A would cast Show and Tell on the first turn using Black Lotus (or an island + Mana Crypt), allowing Player B (his teammate) to play Amulet of Quoz for free, at which point Player B could activate the ability and win the game for his team by winning the coin flip after the Archenemy declines to ante an additional card to counter the effect. Then I realized it couldn't work that way because the amulet's ability can only be activated during it's controller's upkeep, so in theory, a player could only win a game on their first turn with one card (the amulet) if their opponent starts the game and casts Show and Tell, allowing them (the player who isn't starting the game) to play the amulet, then activate its ability on the following turn during their first upkeep.
Now disregard all that and clear your minds, because there are actually other ways for a player to win a game on their first turn with just one card (that isn't the amulet mentioned above). It may seem impossible, but I guarantee you it's not! Call it an epiphany if you will, but I figured out two, that's right...TWO ways a player could win a two player game without ante on their first turn with just one card. Don't believe me? I honestly don't blame you. But once I tell you you'll have no choice but to accept the highly unlikely truth. Now there may be more than two ways to do it, but if there are, I haven't figured them out yet. And no, they don't involve the other player conceding during the first turn in case that's what you're thinking.
One way works in Vintage, Legacy, Classic, EDH, and Modern formats.
The second only works in EDH format.
Can you figure out either?...or possibly even both? If so, I'll be very very impressed and you'll get much respect.
Remember, I'm asking you to crack the ultimate riddle, and figure out how a player could win the game during their first turn with just one single card.
Again...This is NOT a trick question, it most definitely IS possible.
If you think you know either correct answer, either private message me or limit your responses to spoiler windows, that way others can continue to work their brains without being given either answer.
Good Luck
*Note that neither answer involves illegal cards (from Unglued or Unhinged such as The Cheese Stands Alone), a Vanguard card, an Archenemy Scheme card, a custom-made card, nor multiple copies of the same card (such as an opening hand with seven copies of Chancellor of the Dross). When I say ONE card, I literally mean one physical object, so you can't play a Mountain, a Mox Ruby, a Lotus Petal, or discard a Simian Spirit Guide in order to cast Mana Clash and hope to keep flipping coins until your opponent loses 20 life. That was a good guess, but it's not one of the answers I'm looking for. The answer isn't practical and is far from obvious, but it still exists. Nothing is impossible if you have an open mind.
Cycle it (18 life) into Bazaar of Baghdad
Play Bazaar, tap, draw Call to the Netherworld and Golgari Grave-Troll
Cast Call with Madness, returning Street Wraith
Cycle it (16 life), dredge 6 -> Narcomoebax3, Dread Return, Protean Hulk, Cabal Therapy
Dread return Protean Hulk
Sacrifice Protean Hulk to Cabal Therapy, put 4 Disciple of the Vault, 4 Phyrexian Marauder, 4Shifting Wall, opponent loses 32 life.
I guess this is a 3rd way since it's not legacy legal?
that requires you to use tons of cards, as opposed to one
Exactly. Although I have to admit that the complicated sequence he described is a rather creative first turn kill. Your guess was the closest so far, except that it required a second card to cast. Did you want me to PM you one of the correct answers yet? Are you stumped, or would you rather keep guessing?
I'd rather keep guessing, but one point of clarification: does the kill require your opponent to do anything on their turn? (eg Black Lotus, Mountain, Donate the mountain would let you get the Mana Clash win on turn 1 with only 1 card)
You win on the first turn of the game without playing any spells
in the original thread he linked to, the question was to win first turn only casting one spell. There are tons of ways to do that, so the idea was using the least cards.
I argue that in a deck that is
Mana Clash x1
mountain x59
Mana Clash is the only card you need first turn in order to win
Unfortunately, I can't give any hints or clues without giving away the answers, but I'll say that both of these single-card first-turn win methods have something in common. Try to think four dimensionally...
Opponent T1: E exiles Relentless Rats to cast Unmask targeting emself, and discards Relentless Rats. E plays Black Lotus and passes the turn.
Your T1: Upkeep, opponent sacs Black Lotus and casts Plagiarize. In response, you cast Surgical Extraction, going to 18 and targeting eir Relentless Rats. The rest of eir hand and library is revealed to consist entirely of 55 more Relentless Rats, all of which are exiled. In your draw step, they lose.
or else you could put Double Deal on a Panoptic Mirror and use it seven times
Give a definition of what you mean by 1 card win first turn win
I do hope the answer isn't Karn, that would be a pretty weak definition of "one card" imo.
Finally someone's on the right track!
WARNING: ANSWERS below!....Can you resist the temptation to open the spoiler?
...And now the million dollar question: How is this possible if Barren Glory costs six mana to cast, and you can't use another card to produce mana?
Answer: You don't even need to cast it!
Here's the explanation: The game was previously restarted with Karn Liberated's third -14 ability the turn (or two turns) after he exiled Barren Glory from it's controller's hand. Karn only starts with 6 loyalty counters, so in order to get up to 14 loyalty counters and restart the game, Karn's controller can either wait two turns after casting Karn to restart by exiling an additional non-permanent card from a player's hand, or his controller can proliferate twice on the turn he comes into play (in addition to using his +4 ability) as well as the following turn (using Contagion Engine or two other cards which each proliferate once) prior to using the -14 ability.
It's one of those rare exceptional situations where you can travel back in time and restart the game, but most players seem to neglect that it's even possible or beneficial because they don't realize the abstract nature of Karn's potential.
The second way to do this (which only works in EDH format) is if a player has Felidar Sovereign in play under their control at the beginning of the game, which as you know by now got there the same way using Karn. Keep in mind that in EDH, each player begins the game with 40 life.
It may sound like an unorthodox and unconventional way to win a game, but try it against an opponent, watch their jaw drop, and then ask them if they've ever been beaten by a more creative combo deck
Upon restarting, the game state simply has no memory of cards or actions previously used in order to achieve the current state, as everything done prior has essentially been annulled. As humans, the players involved in such a scenario might find it impossible to omit the knowledge regarding what happened previously, and it may be difficult for anyone to claim ignorance as to why another card is already in play at the beginning of said game. However, all the game (or a computer platform monitoring and running the game) knows is that players are rolling to see who starts, shuffling their decks, cutting their opponent's deck, using (or not using) the option to mulligan, and that it's turn one for whoever is starting. The game wouldn't care why or require an explanation as to how a (or several) card(s) is (or are) in play as the new game starts.
Can you name every expansion set which only had 8 or 12 cards included per booster pack?
Avatar of Me / Island
(Michael Jordan would 6-0 Gary Cooper.)
Invisible Stalker / Granny's Payback
(George Bush would 6-0 Dakato Fanning)
Forest / Ghazbán Ogress
(If one player had entered first, and the other last, one would have won more before they met..)
No longer staff here.