hey guys: according to feuerdache... SorryGuy seems to have been banned by his own request. I honestly have absolutely no further knowledge on the situation and dont understand it all, but I think we're gonna need a replacement...
hey guys: according to feuerdache... SorryGuy seems to have been banned by his own request. I honestly have absolutely no further knowledge on the situation and dont understand it all, but I think we're gonna need a replacement...
That would indeed be correct information. I don't know why or any such anything, but here is a verifying quote from SG's sig:
Quote from SorryGuy"s Sig »
A message you should read:
By my own request I am not longer able to post in every forum except the one that does exist. Due to this many things will need replacements, all of which I am attempting to find currently. I have enjoyed my time with you all and will see you in the forum that does not exist or via PM, IRC and IM for the rest of you.
Yours,
SorryGuy
On a different note, it appears as though people do want a claim out of me, so here it is:
I am a vinilla townie. Not much to say about it, but that's what I am.
As for looking at other people, you do have a good point sgdre, and it might be nice to hear a little out of NavyJoe other than "early vote for weak reason" and "fos everyone under suspicion." However, I still think Treigit looks more like scum right now, so I'm sticking with my vote for the time being.
I don't really know what to say about that claim, except for that I actually belive him. It's rather WIFOM, but I doubt that he would, as mafia, not already have some sort of song false claim set up, and he would of claimed a song instead of his role.
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I've thought about it, and I don't think Krash is scum. His posts may seem scummy, but I think he might just be playing poorly, or the victim of bandwagoning incited by the overall consensus that the game needs to move faster. Krash practicaly grabbing the spotlight and shining it on solely himself was just a noobish act, but not noobish enough for me to suspect he is a cover-up mafia guy playing the noob card.
Krash, given vanilla-ness you should have claimed name first.
In fact, I think everyone in this game should claim name first (NOT NOW! When/ if you're forced to claim.). I don't know any roles in this game, but suspect some one might have info along the lines of XXXX by YYYY is in this game/is town. (Again, I don't have this role. I don't know that this role exists. This is ENTIERLY SPECULATION.)
I'm not unvoting right now, I want to hear more from crash (name, artist, any flavor in the PM).
I don't know that a lack of false claim points to anything, last game I don't think that either MMoD or Ximbad came up with false claims in advance (MMoD feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), neither did I, but my claim was more town than scum to start.
I don't know any roles in this game, but suspect some one might have info along the lines of XXXX by YYYY is in this game/is town. (Again, I don't have this role. I don't know that this role exists. This is ENTIERLY SPECULATION.)
No. I can almost guarantee that that role does not exist. We've seen that role before. In fact, I've already alluded to it in this game. It appeared in Shaman Mafia; one of the mafia (titus, I think) had a list of all the role names in the game, and the mafia used that list to outmaneuver the town. Any role like that is far too powerful to exist, whether it's town or mafia.
As for Krash, I don't really think his first post was all that scummy, but each post after that... and the vanilla claim... Unvote, Vote: Krashbot101. Claim your song.
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Ambivalent owner of nan's soul. Proud worshipper of TFE.
I seriously doubt that anyone has a list of all the roles in the game. But in Drawn Together one character had about 4 role names. (Some town, one scum, she didn't know which.) Likewise in an ongoing game on here someone claimed to know (not through powers) that a specific character was in the game and town. I don't know that either of these roles exist, but I'd be a bit surprised if there isn't something of the kind.
It is possible that some players have roles linked to others and have some minor information because of that. I would hardly expect it, though.
I just did a reread. I agree with sgdre's point on NavyJoe, but its not our best lead by a long shot. I am still most suspicious of Krashbot, and am not currently satisfied by his claim. I would be satisfied by his lynch today, seeing as we gain a lot of information from it and he has exhibited the most scum tells.
However, there are still a few things to discuss and I still want to hear his name-claim, so I will refrain from voting and request a vote count for now.
For the double FOS earlier: One of the classic mafia moves is to have it's members vote for each other early and at any show of a bandwagon forming, they withdraw their vote. That's what happened, so I FOS'd the two members. While they might not be mafia, it sure is a sign of mafiaism.
As for my low post counts: Like most people, I don't want to have a post considered spam and get modkilled. So I'm reviewing the posts and post while I can. Usually between 0730 - 1500 CST (that's when I'm at work).
This game is moving sluggishly slow because of the spam threat. Once we get out of day 1, I think the game will pick up.
Do we need to wait for a replacement for Sorry Guy?
I will go against the grain and suggest that Krash, as a vanilla townie, gives us nothing from claiming his song--baring the extremely remote chance that he were to claim a song someone else already had, which is so unlikely it hardly bears mentioning. I suspect we are not going to be able to judge scumminess from song titles/artists. Though I could be completely off base about that.
It's also remotely possible that the "town" songs are connected in some way by theme--I have no way of judging this--and by "song" claiming he gives the mafia extra information.
Still thinking. Will post again later today.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If there is a recurring theme among the songs (which I doubt, considering how paranoid most mods are about stuff like that breaing games), I'd tend to think it would be more likely among mafia, just because it would be easier to find a group of 5 or so songs than 15 or so songs. Also, the mafia would be more inclined to false claim that way, so it would be less likely to break the game.
Abso: My vote on Grim was designed to start a bandwagon. I admit it freely now, as I did at the time. The fact that I was the third vote was not much of a coincidence. Take that for what it's worth.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I still don't see what makes krash so scummy at this point? Am I missing something?
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I just want to clarify that bringing up NavyJoe wasnt an attempt to side-step the Krash issue. I wasnt particularly enthused by that wagon (Im still not). A lot of his "tells" seem to be bad player tells more than scum. No idea whether I think hes scum or not, I guess Ill go reread that part.
I really don't see anything on krash eather. Someone bring up some evidnce.
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"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Does anyone here know Musashi's music preferences?
That seems a little like fishing, as most people would only know what music he likes by what song he sent them. If songs are revealed on death, we will find out more in time. I doubt he would let anyone in here that could potentially break the game by know what music he has on his iPod.
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Abso: My vote on Grim was designed to start a bandwagon. I admit it freely now, as I did at the time. The fact that I was the third vote was not much of a coincidence. Take that for what it's worth.
'kay.
unvote
Vote: carrion pigeons
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Deadline to be imposed. If the game hasn't picked up speed with in three days the day will end. Also don't worry about the spam rule as long as you look over you post and it still seems like you should post it.
Other then simple reqests that are bundled with posts please PM me any concerns.
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I'll say that the most scummy looking player right now would be krashbot, so I'll agree with a lynch of him. We are shooting in the dark here, and we need some sort of information, and 1 or 2 deaths should fix that, as well as give us a huge amount of responses and vote patterns to follow in the morning. Also, activity has dwindled, so we have time for the last few votes to fall. Vote: Krashbot101
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Since no one else is, I guess I will. Here is the case as I see it against Krashbot:
In his opening post he made three minor scum tells in excusinf himself from lurking, asking others to turn up leads for him, and joined the only wagon at the time, while not voting.
Very quickly after Axelrod points his last post out, he makes a response in which his main defence is the n00b card and some 'but he did it too!'.
He then proceeds to make a post that just feels like its coming from the side of mafia, using the n00b card again and jokes a bit about his bad play (trying to make it seem less serious).
He then proceeds to attack Treigit,the only one of his accusors to receive attention, on the grounds that Treigit was trying to 'make him talk', and anything he said was only incriminating him (usually th point of looking at responses).
His posting dies down from there, and he makes a few attempts to divert attention onto some of the other wagons that seem to have started. And then there's his vanilla claim.
I think its obvious that he's inexperienced, but town or mafia isn't so obvious. I also think we gain enough information from his lynch to make it worthwhile, even if we do lose a townie in the process.
Note: I'm not saying that I'm sure he's scum (I really don't know either way), I just think he has the best chance of being scum of those we've seen and we gain enough information to justify lynching him.
All that said, I'm still not quite ready to end the day, and I think we should get more of the town behind his lynch anyhow.
If I had to choose someone, perhaps carrion pigeons? As others have pointed out, his comments about forcing a bandwagon seem...err...malicious, at best.
I would like to refrain at this time from claiming a song due to the reasons Axel and Grim mentioned on the last page as well as the fact that, knowing my song, I doubt it would help anyone at all (I'm still willing to claim it if enough people think I should).
On the other side, CP's play does seem a little scummy, but more mean than anything else, so I'll wait for a little more information. Also, I've decided my vote on Treigit was a little too much OMGUS and not enough reasonable, so...unvote.
Quote from ikerr »
I also think we gain enough information from his lynch to make it worthwhile, even if we do lose a townie in the process.
Barring me being scum *points to claim*, I fail to see how you get any real new information out of just lynching me without some more discussion. I really don't think this is reasonable without quite a bit more discussion about my claim and why it is or isn't believable.
There's alot of scumminess going on. We have 3 days to decide who we think is scum. So instead of rushing it, why don't we wait another day and look for more tells. While I agree that krash seems scummy, i would hate to rush his lynching...
Just a note, it seems as though everyone is under the impression that there is a deadline set (3 days) before day 1 ends. The way I read that post was "Unless something real starts happening very soon, day 1 will end in 3 read days." In other words, it's saying "pick it up guys."
Unfortunately, the game is becomming warped around the fact that people aren't posting a lot, and now we are threatened with a deadline before there's much of anything to look at.
My original vote on Krash was just slightly better than random (he only had the one post). His vanilla claim seemed credible to me. I'm voting CP right now for the (admittedly) blatant bandwagoning. And what I perceive as his using the fact that people aren't posting a lot to justify an otherwise poor vote.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Carrion Pigeons seems to be jumping from one bandwagon to the next. You added the third vote to the Grimclaw wagon, and are currently going on Krashbot for being new.
Your vote-posts have very little content to them and the rest of your posts revolve around justifying your actions. Your jutification after the vote seems appropriate yet still mildly weak.
You jump bandwagons and don't seem to work at much independent thought. You're a better player than this.
I still like the Krashbot lynch. He seemed scummy before with his posts, and his last post was a bit scummy too. I seem to recall someone calling his vote OMGUS and him denying it. Shrugs. I could be wrong.
vote carrion pigeon. The bandwagoning is really agressive. It seems at every turn your voting and trying to accelarte someone's bandwagon.
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"No, I specifically heard denim. Looks like so crafty ghost is trying to break our code" -Bravo 3 "I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
I really don't think this is reasonable without quite a bit more discussion about my claim and why it is or isn't believable.
Oh, I agree. That is why my vote isn't on you yet. What I have noticed is some strange behaviour from a number of players regarding your wagon, that doesn't quite gain meaning until your lynch.
As for CP, he has been encouraging aggressive and in some places reckless play, but I don't see that as a major scum tell. I'd still be more satisfied with the Krashbot case.
Vote Stands I'd rather discuss Krashbot's claim than lynch him, but if he's only going to tell us he's vanilla there's not much to claim. What I do know, on IRC, vanilla is a pretty easy (and standard) claim for mafia, Krash plays primarily on IRC, there are few strictly vanilla roles in most Sally games (though there's probably one just to throw us off, and admittedly that one could be crash).
It's true that the name claim isn't likely to confirm or condemn Krash at this point, but it's certainly not going to hurt as: he looks to be the lynch (thus it will soon be revealed), it's not going to give away anything about him (if he's telling the truth), it will give us something to discuss. Give us your name and I'll unvote (this isn't a promise that I won't revote, just that I'll remove my vote to give you some safety while we discuss).
The fact that he seems reluctant to claim just makes me think even more that he's scum. He either thinks his name is scummy, or doesn't know if his name is scummy. I think he's trying to decide if he should false claim, and if so what.
Yes if the game picks up speed, then I will be accepting of any deadline extensions. If you're not posting you should be! The no spamming rule is dropped in favor of the "look over you post and put a minimal amount of thought into it" rule. More of a common sense type of thing, so it shouldn't be a problem.
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I believe that vote count (if accurate) is almost a certain that Krash is mafia. If he wasn't, the mafia would have all sneaked in their votes to have him killed. That being said.
That's the whole problem, it MIGHT hurt.
a) if he's the lynch we'll no it anyways, so he doesn't need to claim in that case (especially since it won't clear or condemn him).
b) it might not give away anything about him, but it is very well possible that it gives away something about the town as a whole, which is alot worse.
c) discussion has started nicely just now without his name claim.
d) that last line sounds a hell of alot like blackmailing someone into giving out information.
Did you even read the reasons Axel and I gave for Krash not claiming his song name? Seriously, I think this entire post is really trying to push Krash into naimclaiming for some reason. And I don't like that.
Vote Treigit
a) He should claim because he doesn't want to be lynched and that's the only thing that will save him at this point. (Unless he's able to start a diversionary wagon as he's been attempting so dilligently.)
b)What is is possibly going to give away about the town? That they were recorded between 1957 and at least when Krash was recorded? That vanilla songs are all by XXXX or of the XXXX genre? I seriously don't see where this is going to hurt the town. The mafia already has a pretty good idea who is town.
c)True, we do seem to have a better discussion. I still think this would be a good topic to discuss.
d)It's an offer, not a threat. If he doesn't do anything to disuade me from the notion that he's scum I'm going to lynch him. If he gives me some reason to suspect he might be town, or at least gives me some way to judge that, then I might not want to lynch him. It appears he's choosing option one.
Yes, I read the reasons. Responded in thread to some, and generally felt they weren't valid. However, for your benifit I've refuted Axel's arguments below.
Quote from axelrod »
I will go against the grain and suggest that Krash, as a vanilla townie, gives us nothing from claiming his song--baring the extremely remote chance that he were to claim a song someone else already had, which is so unlikely it hardly bears mentioning. I suspect we are not going to be able to judge scumminess from song titles/artists. Though I could be completely off base about that.
It's also remotely possible that the "town" songs are connected in some way by theme--I have no way of judging this--and by "song" claiming he gives the mafia extra information.
Still thinking. Will post again later today.
I agree that Krash's song is unlikely to give us any more info (especially if he's telling the truth). This is why I say he should have claimed his song first. (Note past tense.) I still think that knowing his song would give us another avenue of discussion. (Though adimitedly discussion is picking up rather nicely.) It's somewhat similar to setup speculation, though with less risk of accidently revealing more info.
It is possible town songs are connected by theme. In which case (if Krash is honest) we'll know by tonight anyway. (Remember, we did get Bluesoul's song.) The only way this is giving the mafia any info is if we don't lynch Krash, and the person we do end up lynching is scum. In which case we're giving the mafia info n1 that they normally won't get until day 2. First, I doubt that we're going to lynch a non-Krash scum. Second, I doubt that there is a damning pattern amongst the town. Third I doubt that this info going to the scum tonight rather than tomorrow will have much effect.
Quote from Grimclaw »
I have to agree with Axelrod here: now that we have his role claim, what can a flavour claim possibly give us at this point?
On the role claim: for now, I am willing to believe him. But just because his play hasn't been bad
enough to condemn him yet.
CP: I still can't believe you wanted to start a bandwagon on a lurker. Seriously, agressive play is one thing, but that's just... well, not good. I can't call it a scum play when it's this obvious though.
(For some reason it keeps breaking this into two quotes, even after I remove the extra tags. Anyone know why this might be?)
You didn't give the town any new info/arguments. Stop trying to claim that you had any input on the reasons why Krash shouldn't name calim. * Treigit Hopes others put this in their notes
@ Ximbad could you please include votes to lynch.
EWP
Navy Joe, be careful with that logic. Scum aren't likely to attempt a speed lynch unless it will win them the game. And good scum groups will vote their own when it becomes apparent they're going down (as I think this is).
a) He should claim because he doesn't want to be lynched and that's the only thing that will save him at this point. (Unless he's able to start a diversionary wagon as he's been attempting so dilligently.)
b)What is is possibly going to give away about the town? That they were recorded between 1957 and at least when Krash was recorded? That vanilla songs are all by XXXX or of the XXXX genre? I seriously don't see where this is going to hurt the town. The mafia already has a pretty good idea who is town.
c)True, we do seem to have a better discussion. I still think this would be a good topic to discuss.
d)It's an offer, not a threat. If he doesn't do anything to disuade me from the notion that he's scum I'm going to lynch him. If he gives me some reason to suspect he might be town, or at least gives me some way to judge that, then I might not want to lynch him. It appears he's choosing option one.
Yes, I read the reasons. Responded in thread to some, and generally felt they weren't valid. However, for your benifit I've refuted Axel's arguments below.
I agree that Krash's song is unlikely to give us any more info (especially if he's telling the truth). This is why I say he should have claimed his song first. (Note past tense.) I still think that knowing his song would give us another avenue of discussion. (Though adimitedly discussion is picking up rather nicely.) It's somewhat similar to setup speculation, though with less risk of accidently revealing more info.
It is possible town songs are connected by theme. In which case (if Krash is honest) we'll know by tonight anyway. (Remember, we did get Bluesoul's song.) The only way this is giving the mafia any info is if we don't lynch Krash, and the person we do end up lynching is scum. In which case we're giving the mafia info n1 that they normally won't get until day 2. First, I doubt that we're going to lynch a non-Krash scum. Second, I doubt that there is a damning pattern amongst the town. Third I doubt that this info going to the scum tonight rather than tomorrow will have much effect.
You know, I totally forgot we had bluesoul's song at the beginning of the game. I think this may moot my point.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Navyjoe's point is absolutely absurd. However, with a deadline looming...I don't like it, but Krash seems like the optimal play.
Vote: Krashbot.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
We have 8 votes on Krash with 10 to lynch. Right now we still have a deadline of...Friday? Is that right, Mod.?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I believe that vote count (if accurate) is almost a certain that Krash is mafia. If he wasn't, the mafia would have all sneaked in their votes to have him killed. That being said.
unvote Vote: krashbot
I strongly disagree with this logic. From my experience, it is the mafia that starts the bandwagoning and original voting, as opposed to capping off the last two votes. On the contrary, if Krash was mafia, I think we would be hearing more people (mafia) speaking in his defense. I still think he just got caught in the spotlight and made some stupid "tells" that kept it on him. For a full explanation of why I think he's town, see my post from a few pages back.
I strongly disagree with this logic. From my experience, it is the mafia that starts the bandwagoning and original voting, as opposed to capping off the last two votes. On the contrary, if Krash was mafia, I think we would be hearing more people (mafia) speaking in his defense. I still think he just got caught in the spotlight and made some stupid "tells" that kept it on him. For a full explanation of why I think he's town, see my post from a few pages back.
I'm going to have to agree with this prospect and decree that the mafia is pushing awfully hard to get Krashbot lynched.
I'm standing solid on my vote on carrionpigeons which the current focus is deterring away from. Look back at what carrion has done.
FoS: Treigit for trying to shift the focus towards Krashbot without addressing carrionpigeons. Treigit is also making assumptions forcing Krashbot to claim and why he does not claim. My vote stands on carrionpigeons very much due to Treigit's actions.
FoS: Treigit for trying to shift the focus towards Krashbot without addressing carrionpigeons. Treigit is also making assumptions forcing Krashbot to claim and why he does not claim.
Aggreed. To me, this looks like both Treigit and CP are probably scum. The simple fact that Treigit is trying to run with the "lynch me" bandwagon and CP has both give off a few reasonable scum tells and not posted in over 50 hours (he was online less than 6 hours ago), leads me to believe they are very possibly both scum.
At this point, I think CP is more likely to be scum, but I think they are both scum. Vote Carrion Pigeons
As for me, I still don't think there is enough out there to really warrent me claiming a song at this point. Although my song will probably be revealed if I die, it is much more likely that me claiming a song will hurt me, due to people thinking it is a false claim, than help me. This is espcially true becaue, at least at this point, we really have no way to tell if someone is scum or not simply by their song.
We have 8 votes on Krash with 10 to lynch. Right now we still have a deadline of...Friday? Is that right, Mod.?
That looks about right.
Lorelith will replace sorryguy as soon as he/she post in the thread to confirm
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I think we would be hearing more people (mafia) speaking in his defense.
Right. Cuz all mafia protect their buddies. OMG I'VE JUST DISCOVERED A SECRET MAFIA UBER TELL!!!1!1!1111!!!!!!
It's perfectly reasonable that Krashbot is mafia and his members have thrown him to the wolves. I know that's what Chamber and I did to Musashi in French, and then I did to Chamber.
Yeah, I'm kind of new to this mafia game, and it seems like finding mafia is gonna be hard. Is there anyone here from the old forums? I remember watching the games of Pentagram, Phanto and Glamdring (among many others). Any memories of them?
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On a different note, it appears as though people do want a claim out of me, so here it is:
I am a vinilla townie. Not much to say about it, but that's what I am.
As for looking at other people, you do have a good point sgdre, and it might be nice to hear a little out of NavyJoe other than "early vote for weak reason" and "fos everyone under suspicion." However, I still think Treigit looks more like scum right now, so I'm sticking with my vote for the time being.
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Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
I've thought about it, and I don't think Krash is scum. His posts may seem scummy, but I think he might just be playing poorly, or the victim of bandwagoning incited by the overall consensus that the game needs to move faster. Krash practicaly grabbing the spotlight and shining it on solely himself was just a noobish act, but not noobish enough for me to suspect he is a cover-up mafia guy playing the noob card.
In fact, I think everyone in this game should claim name first (NOT NOW! When/ if you're forced to claim.). I don't know any roles in this game, but suspect some one might have info along the lines of XXXX by YYYY is in this game/is town. (Again, I don't have this role. I don't know that this role exists. This is ENTIERLY SPECULATION.)
I'm not unvoting right now, I want to hear more from crash (name, artist, any flavor in the PM).
I don't know that a lack of false claim points to anything, last game I don't think that either MMoD or Ximbad came up with false claims in advance (MMoD feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), neither did I, but my claim was more town than scum to start.
As for Krash, I don't really think his first post was all that scummy, but each post after that... and the vanilla claim... Unvote, Vote: Krashbot101. Claim your song.
Proud worshipper of TFE.
I just did a reread. I agree with sgdre's point on NavyJoe, but its not our best lead by a long shot. I am still most suspicious of Krashbot, and am not currently satisfied by his claim. I would be satisfied by his lynch today, seeing as we gain a lot of information from it and he has exhibited the most scum tells.
However, there are still a few things to discuss and I still want to hear his name-claim, so I will refrain from voting and request a vote count for now.
For the double FOS earlier: One of the classic mafia moves is to have it's members vote for each other early and at any show of a bandwagon forming, they withdraw their vote. That's what happened, so I FOS'd the two members. While they might not be mafia, it sure is a sign of mafiaism.
As for my low post counts: Like most people, I don't want to have a post considered spam and get modkilled. So I'm reviewing the posts and post while I can. Usually between 0730 - 1500 CST (that's when I'm at work).
This game is moving sluggishly slow because of the spam threat. Once we get out of day 1, I think the game will pick up.
Do we need to wait for a replacement for Sorry Guy?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
It's also remotely possible that the "town" songs are connected in some way by theme--I have no way of judging this--and by "song" claiming he gives the mafia extra information.
Still thinking. Will post again later today.
Abso: My vote on Grim was designed to start a bandwagon. I admit it freely now, as I did at the time. The fact that I was the third vote was not much of a coincidence. Take that for what it's worth.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
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"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
That seems a little like fishing, as most people would only know what music he likes by what song he sent them. If songs are revealed on death, we will find out more in time. I doubt he would let anyone in here that could potentially break the game by know what music he has on his iPod.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
'kay.
unvote
Vote: carrion pigeons
Other then simple reqests that are bundled with posts please PM me any concerns.
Kops 1 (sorryguy)
Grimclaw 2 (NavyJoe, sgdre)
Krashbot 5 (swinkee, Kops, mystery meat of doom, carrion pigeons, treigit)
Treigit 1 (Krashbot)
carrion pidgeons 2 (abso, axlerod)
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
In his opening post he made three minor scum tells in excusinf himself from lurking, asking others to turn up leads for him, and joined the only wagon at the time, while not voting.
Very quickly after Axelrod points his last post out, he makes a response in which his main defence is the n00b card and some 'but he did it too!'.
He then proceeds to make a post that just feels like its coming from the side of mafia, using the n00b card again and jokes a bit about his bad play (trying to make it seem less serious).
He then proceeds to attack Treigit,the only one of his accusors to receive attention, on the grounds that Treigit was trying to 'make him talk', and anything he said was only incriminating him (usually th point of looking at responses).
His posting dies down from there, and he makes a few attempts to divert attention onto some of the other wagons that seem to have started. And then there's his vanilla claim.
I think its obvious that he's inexperienced, but town or mafia isn't so obvious. I also think we gain enough information from his lynch to make it worthwhile, even if we do lose a townie in the process.
Note: I'm not saying that I'm sure he's scum (I really don't know either way), I just think he has the best chance of being scum of those we've seen and we gain enough information to justify lynching him.
All that said, I'm still not quite ready to end the day, and I think we should get more of the town behind his lynch anyhow.
I really dont see a huge problem with the actions of krash or CP. If you are on one of those wagons please explain.
Also, everyone NEEDS to post. Say at least who you would like lynched if the day were about to end (as it might be).
Therefore, vote carrion pigeons.
On the other side, CP's play does seem a little scummy, but more mean than anything else, so I'll wait for a little more information. Also, I've decided my vote on Treigit was a little too much OMGUS and not enough reasonable, so...unvote.
Barring me being scum *points to claim*, I fail to see how you get any real new information out of just lynching me without some more discussion. I really don't think this is reasonable without quite a bit more discussion about my claim and why it is or isn't believable.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Xim, could you please clarify this for us?
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
My original vote on Krash was just slightly better than random (he only had the one post). His vanilla claim seemed credible to me. I'm voting CP right now for the (admittedly) blatant bandwagoning. And what I perceive as his using the fact that people aren't posting a lot to justify an otherwise poor vote.
Your vote-posts have very little content to them and the rest of your posts revolve around justifying your actions. Your jutification after the vote seems appropriate yet still mildly weak.
You jump bandwagons and don't seem to work at much independent thought. You're a better player than this.
My vote stands
"I know nothing of the law, only vengence" -Dom, U/G madness
Oh, I agree. That is why my vote isn't on you yet. What I have noticed is some strange behaviour from a number of players regarding your wagon, that doesn't quite gain meaning until your lynch.
As for CP, he has been encouraging aggressive and in some places reckless play, but I don't see that as a major scum tell. I'd still be more satisfied with the Krashbot case.
It's true that the name claim isn't likely to confirm or condemn Krash at this point, but it's certainly not going to hurt as: he looks to be the lynch (thus it will soon be revealed), it's not going to give away anything about him (if he's telling the truth), it will give us something to discuss. Give us your name and I'll unvote (this isn't a promise that I won't revote, just that I'll remove my vote to give you some safety while we discuss).
The fact that he seems reluctant to claim just makes me think even more that he's scum. He either thinks his name is scummy, or doesn't know if his name is scummy. I think he's trying to decide if he should false claim, and if so what.
Kops 1 (sorryguy)
Grimclaw 2 (NavyJoe, sgdre)
Krashbot 6 (welloflostgnomes, swinkee, Kops, mystery meat of doom, carrion pigeons, treigit)
Treigit 1 (grimclaw)
carrion pidgeons 4 (kokusho, tuatha, abso, axlerod)
unvote
Vote: krashbot
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
a) He should claim because he doesn't want to be lynched and that's the only thing that will save him at this point. (Unless he's able to start a diversionary wagon as he's been attempting so dilligently.)
b)What is is possibly going to give away about the town? That they were recorded between 1957 and at least when Krash was recorded? That vanilla songs are all by XXXX or of the XXXX genre? I seriously don't see where this is going to hurt the town. The mafia already has a pretty good idea who is town.
c)True, we do seem to have a better discussion. I still think this would be a good topic to discuss.
d)It's an offer, not a threat. If he doesn't do anything to disuade me from the notion that he's scum I'm going to lynch him. If he gives me some reason to suspect he might be town, or at least gives me some way to judge that, then I might not want to lynch him. It appears he's choosing option one.
Yes, I read the reasons. Responded in thread to some, and generally felt they weren't valid. However, for your benifit I've refuted Axel's arguments below.
I agree that Krash's song is unlikely to give us any more info (especially if he's telling the truth). This is why I say he should have claimed his song first. (Note past tense.) I still think that knowing his song would give us another avenue of discussion. (Though adimitedly discussion is picking up rather nicely.) It's somewhat similar to setup speculation, though with less risk of accidently revealing more info.
It is possible town songs are connected by theme. In which case (if Krash is honest) we'll know by tonight anyway. (Remember, we did get Bluesoul's song.) The only way this is giving the mafia any info is if we don't lynch Krash, and the person we do end up lynching is scum. In which case we're giving the mafia info n1 that they normally won't get until day 2. First, I doubt that we're going to lynch a non-Krash scum. Second, I doubt that there is a damning pattern amongst the town. Third I doubt that this info going to the scum tonight rather than tomorrow will have much effect.
enough to condemn him yet.
CP: I still can't believe you wanted to start a bandwagon on a lurker. Seriously, agressive play is one thing, but that's just... well, not good. I can't call it a scum play when it's this obvious though.
(For some reason it keeps breaking this into two quotes, even after I remove the extra tags. Anyone know why this might be?)
You didn't give the town any new info/arguments. Stop trying to claim that you had any input on the reasons why Krash shouldn't name calim.
* Treigit Hopes others put this in their notes
@ Ximbad could you please include votes to lynch.
EWP
Navy Joe, be careful with that logic. Scum aren't likely to attempt a speed lynch unless it will win them the game. And good scum groups will vote their own when it becomes apparent they're going down (as I think this is).
You know, I totally forgot we had bluesoul's song at the beginning of the game. I think this may moot my point.
Vote: Krashbot.
I strongly disagree with this logic. From my experience, it is the mafia that starts the bandwagoning and original voting, as opposed to capping off the last two votes. On the contrary, if Krash was mafia, I think we would be hearing more people (mafia) speaking in his defense. I still think he just got caught in the spotlight and made some stupid "tells" that kept it on him. For a full explanation of why I think he's town, see my post from a few pages back.
I'm going to have to agree with this prospect and decree that the mafia is pushing awfully hard to get Krashbot lynched.
I'm standing solid on my vote on carrionpigeons which the current focus is deterring away from. Look back at what carrion has done.
FoS: Treigit for trying to shift the focus towards Krashbot without addressing carrionpigeons. Treigit is also making assumptions forcing Krashbot to claim and why he does not claim. My vote stands on carrionpigeons very much due to Treigit's actions.
unvote
Just in case...I will look over....
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
unvote VOTE NavyJoe
Mod, please tell us if the deadline is lifted or not.
At this point, I think CP is more likely to be scum, but I think they are both scum. Vote Carrion Pigeons
As for me, I still don't think there is enough out there to really warrent me claiming a song at this point. Although my song will probably be revealed if I die, it is much more likely that me claiming a song will hurt me, due to people thinking it is a false claim, than help me. This is espcially true becaue, at least at this point, we really have no way to tell if someone is scum or not simply by their song.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
Kops 1 (sorryguy)
Navyjoe 1 (sgdre)
Krashbot 8 (welloflostgnomes, swinkee, Kops, mystery meat of doom, carrion pigeons, treigit, fayul)
carrion pidgeons 4 (Krashbot, kokusho, tuatha, abso, axlerod)
That looks about right.
Lorelith will replace sorryguy as soon as he/she post in the thread to confirm
What's the background? Why lynch Krashbot? And so on...
Right. Cuz all mafia protect their buddies. OMG I'VE JUST DISCOVERED A SECRET MAFIA UBER TELL!!!1!1!1111!!!!!!
It's perfectly reasonable that Krashbot is mafia and his members have thrown him to the wolves. I know that's what Chamber and I did to Musashi in French, and then I did to Chamber.