It was definetely a great game, even if it took awhile. Though, I think that having a randomly-becomes-mafia group that can never communicate with each other and one of them wants to kill the other is kinda weak.
That and I'll never understand why Jobie decided that our method of killing(at the time) needed to die, and I think Swinkee is a POS..but oh well.
Also, to Kenji, I didn't have any retaliatory ability..after Lu Bu died, I was just made to perform NKs by myself...I died because you targeted me with your vig, but you would have also died had Arimnaes not protected you that same night.
That and I'll never understand why Jobie decided that our method of killing(at the time) needed to die, and I think Swinkee is a POS..but oh well.
See my post above. My WC at the time was to kill you. I was hoping he would out you since I didn't know who you were. Sadly, he outed me at the same time.
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Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Also, to Kenji, I didn't have any retaliatory ability..after Lu Bu died, I was just made to perform NKs by myself...I died because you targeted me with your vig, but you would have also died had Arimnaes not protected you that same night.
2 ez.
@Fayul: MVP's and LVP's? I guess they might be tough to assign with like 4 different sides in this...
Does anyone have any juicy PM's to share? I have two that show why me thinking I'm right about something is inherently dangerous.
Quote from My Night 5 Choice »
No target tonight, since I'm apparently a roleblocking doc or something.
I'm in a bad mood, so it was nice to see this, but I swear, Cyan, if we ever meet in a dark alley... That's twice you've almost gotten me lynched when I was town and you were not.
You attempt to go out for your target, however, there is an odd aura surrounding your camp, and it somehow magically makes you unable to leave the small hut there. Cursing your bad luck, you spend the whole night pacing around thinking up new material to use to annoy your next target. However, sadly, the world shall enver hear your fresh new wit. An extremely large man toting an similarly extremely large crescent halberd approaches your hut, running, and silently cuts you down with one swift stroke. Ow.
Quote from Fayul »
oh dude I totally forgot this one ability I am so so so so so so so so so so so so sorry
You attempt to go out for your target, however, there is an odd aura surrounding your camp, and it somehow magically makes you unable to leave the small hut there. Cursing your bad luck, you spend the whole night pacing around thinking up new material to use to annoy your next target. However, sadly, the world shall enver hear your fresh new wit. An extremely large man toting an similarly extremely large crescent halberd approaches your hut, running, and makes a large cash with one swift stroke. Ow. Luckily, there happens to be another man around. He gives his name as Hua Tuo, and he expertly treats your wound, somehow wondrously leaving you as fine as you were before.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What made you think I was "suspicious of you"? Wouldn't the fact that the PM came in two pieces mean I couldn't have roleblocked you?
From my POV:
Quote from Fayul »
You observe carrionpigeons throughout the night, and you watch in horror as he is attacked by a monstrous warrior! As soon as the assailant leaves, however, you are able to easily cure Carrion and he is back up as good as new in a matter of minutes. Because Hua Tuo is just that awesome.
I'm in a bad mood, so it was nice to see this, but I swear, Cyan, if we ever meet in a dark alley... That's twice you've almost gotten me lynched when I was town and you were not.
Ah well. Congragulations town.
Err..but I was mafia(sort of)..that's was my job. It's not personal, honestly, I don't even know you. Like, in the future, if I play in a game w/ Swinkee, I'd be extremely tempted to vote him out of resentment, or auto-use whatever ability I have on him(the same goes for Chamber because of how he acted in Trek mafia), but, I wouldn't do that..like I've said in Cartoon Mafia, I think that all players should strive to keep emotion as far away from the game as possible, as it really cannot be an asset in a game like mafia.
Wei MVP: RafaelK: He directed the town more than Az, and came damn close to winning. I might be biased in that that Emperor Xian claim was damn awesome.
Wei LVP: Creampuffeater. Duh.
Wu MVP: HuntedCharlie, the only Wu guy not to get Lynched, if memory serves.
Wu LVP: Chamber. I'm still really annoyed with him for getting the idea of falseclaims in the open, so, again, I might be biased here.
Shu MVP: Kenji. Got himself confirmed early, and offed so many valugable targets, including a blind hit on Charlie. Wasn't the best analyzer but was definitely the guy most instrumental to a shu win.
Shu LVP: This is really hard to say, nobody duid a clearly abysmal job, so I'll go with Ged. He did have a weak claim, yes, but he had absolutely no defence, and he couldn't even get a vig to test him.
Other MVP: Jobie. HURR NICE DAY 1 HIT MUST BE NICE
Other LVP: Jobie. HURR NICE JOB OUTING YOUR ENTIRE FACTION MUST BE NICE
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Shu LVP: This is really hard to say, nobody did a clearly abysmal job, so I'll go with Ged. He did have a weak claim, yes, but he had absolutely no defence, and he couldn't even get a vig to test him.
Bleh. This game really was no fun to me, though this was by no means the fault of anyone but myself. I just had no idea what I was doing, a poor claim, and... well, I guess that was about it. I had no idea at all what I was doing and it got me killed. Then I was too dissapointed with my play to keep following along. That just made the game worse for me as it turns out to have been a really good one. Ugh.
On a much less depressing note, great job Fayul. I am truely sorry that I didn't keep following along. And nice job on the win, Shu.
Yes! I have learned a valuable lesson. Truth bears no scrutiny. (Actually the lesson was to be more careful with my presentation). I got lynched for telling exactly as I saw it. Nice job, Kenji, arimnaes. It is good to be victorious.
@arimnaes: yes, the scum they knew CPE was Jiang Wei.
That's not true at all. I don't know if you MEANT to tell us, but we didn't know.
All we knew was that Jiang Wei was out there and that he was once mafia but we had lost communications with him. We didn't know who it was.
That screwed us up royally since our reactions were all wrong... we basically figured "here's someone confused"- obviously we figured Jiang Wei would claim JIANG WEI, and cpe had obviously done some research based on the two claims he put forward- and ran him over with the proverbial truck, then backed off a bit and defended him because that's what you do when you know you're lynching a townie.
I felt we were screwed from then on, moreso when we lost a kill and discovered fade's immunity (yay, nightkill immune analyst!). My godfather inspection immunity was worthless, since we killed the cop night 1. It's not ALWAYS a good thing, you know?
Anyway, I'd really like to not be mafia with an unknown member again. Rhino nearly screwed me up in Sin City and CPE did screw us up here. It should count as a negative to the mafia for balancing purposes
Not actually having lynch immunity (if I'd simply not been lynched without a name reveal and we'd gone to night, I'd love to hear from Kenji what he would have done...) and not gaining ANYTHING from killing loran was kind of annoying, too (we killed loran over arimnaes basically hoping that we would gain SOMETHING from killing all the emperors and successors after the fuss made about it, but nope!). The Wei was really weak... it felt like we were sacrificial lambs to fill in time and for the Wu or Dong Zhuo to be the real endgame threat.
Overall, I'm damn happy that Az and I made it so far and that I did enough to not even be lynched out of hand on the final day. Given the start and our relative lack of power, it's a moral victory. I don't know what more we could have done.
BTW Kenji, we saw your vig subclaim on day 1 but thought you were the SK because of it and left you alone. Oops!
Tough game, with some bad luck on Night 0 and so many enemies to eliminate, but Day 1 worked wonderfully for us. creampuffeater made a huge mistake, and then CC and Az made the mistake of trying to save him rather than cut their losses.
See, they didn't make a mistake. They didn't know he was scum and thought they were defending a townie about to be lynched.
Yeah, definitely didn't know that CPE was mafia while I was defending him. CC and I had a nasty little shock, when we found that out. I'd thought it was going to be a classic townie mislynch. And ironically, it became one of the main behavioral tells that people kept bringing up against me (even after the game was over!).
Losing CC during the night on the follow-up was a crushing loss. By the beginning of day two, the mafia had already been cut in half, to two members. That seemed to be more than enough to counterbalance the loss of the cop (which we were never quite sure was a strong point in our favor, since we feared a 2nd investigator or deputy). The scum-to-town ratio was well-balanced, but the mafia this game seemed to be facing a real up-hill battle compared to usual. That's not necessarily a bad thing, just an observation.
The notification PMs really came out of left field to haunt us as well. I had no idea that townies were getting verification of doc protection, so my claim turned to garbage pretty quick, and Raf's options were narrowed down.
I probably deserved to be lynched based on my push for CP alone, though. I knew it was going to look scummy, but after losing CC, I felt that at least one of us (preferably me, since I'd already received attention from defending CPE) had to take the risk of playing more aggressively. Still not sure if that was the correct choice or not, but I'm surprised that didn't come up as one of the rationales against me.
That is, I'm surprised more of my non-defending CPE behavior tells didn't ever really get analyzed. I don't think my play this game was very strong at all, and I probably deserved to be lynched sooner, but as it happened I was eventually lynched for things I had little control over. *shrug* Karma still won in the end.
@Az: I can't speak for anyone else, but the way you avoided my attention until that late was because you were always my number 2 suspect, but never number 1. Not to mention the whole Dong Zhuo mafia fiasco, which bought you two days at least. The straw that broke the camel's back was Kenji getting blocked that night; I didn't see how you could possibly be town after that. I was just worried you might be an unlynchable Cao Cao.
Overall, the setup may have been balanced against the Wei, but I'm not really sure who it would have been balanced in favor of. The Shu had a hard row to hoe as well, since as the "town" they still made up barely 50% of the players, and they had to kill every single non-Shu in order to win. We would've never made it without Kenji decimating the Wu at night.
If anyone, the game probably favored the Wu, if they had realized they were pseudo-scum and kept their mouths shut about the safe claims.
I agree. If this game was a pie, with each faction's slice representing their chance of winning, most everyone would have a relatively small piece. Which I like in a game, generally. Difficulty isn't always a negative.
Hmm. I assume I had a reason for doing that at one point. Oh well.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
If anyone, the game probably favored the Wu, if they had realized they were pseudo-scum and kept their mouths shut about the safe claims.
Sorry, but no. Just no. We were effectivly a mafia, having to eliminate both the wei and shu to win. But 1 we didnt know this 2 there were 3 of us 3 we couldnt talk to each other or know who each other were and 4 we had no night kill. How you can say we had a better chance of winning then the wei is far beyond me. Also I think the shu had a very good chance at winning. Looking at the game as town vs scum, Id say the town had about its usual chance at winning. Each individual scum group just had a much lower chance of winning because we were broken up into 3 smaller group instead of say, an sk and a single large mafia
Now I will gladly accept the lvp. With hindsight Its clear my action was pretty much as anti wu as one could get, However; if faced with the same situation again I think I would have played it the same way. My current win condition was only to kill the wei, and it was only hinted at that the shu MIGHT turn on us once the wei were dead. How was I suposed to know they 100% would. Bah.
My pm for reference(note I actually did think I'd kill kenji if he tried to kill me):
Quote from Fayul »
You are Sun Jian, ruler of the kingdom of Wu. Your kingdom is currently in a coalition with the kingdom of Shu to eradicate the forces of Wei.
Your military prowess and vigilance allows you to repel an at attacker by night. There are few in the world that can match the blade of Sun Jian!
Remember that while the kingdom of Wu is currently working together with Shu, and Shu is the dominant power in numbers. It might be best to keep your affiliation secret, for as we all know, alliances do not last forever...
Before you caught sight of anyone else, you were attacked by someone. In accordance with your ability, you quickly recognize and neutralize the threat. It was Zhang Bao, son of Zhang Fei: a fine warrior to be sure, but no match for Sun Jian. You quickly dispose of the body before his father can notice you: Lord Zhang is not someone to be easily trifled with in hand-to-hand combat.
(modnote: Blatant safe claim. Yeah, I know it’s a really lame way to deal with the issue. Sorry.)
Current Goal: Eradicate the kingdom of Wei
See, they didn't make a mistake. They didn't know he was scum and thought they were defending a townie about to be lynched.
It was still a mistake to defend someone who was clearly not Shu and had no legitimate defense for his play. Even if he had turned up Wu, Az and CC would still have been tied in and possibly later lynched/vigged as suspected Wu.
Az kind of hit a sweet spot in this game, where for the longest time he wasn't under scrutiny just because everyone wanted to look at someone else. The case against him probably would have been enough to get him lynched IMO if we hadn't had so many other targets.
arimnaes: the way I read it, I thought that Fayul had just missed another aspect of the role because she was presumably used to it being a basic roleblock. Keep in mind that I had been roleblocked the night before, and already had that in mind.
Raf: I knew for a fact that you were scum after you claimed. I really thought you were Hua Tuo after you suggested the existence of a roleblocking doctor, and when you "full-claimed" a protection role without mentioning the roleblock I thought you had, I knew that you knew about the roleblock on me, and were lying about it. If only I had been alive at the time...
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Err..but I was mafia(sort of)..that's was my job. It's not personal, honestly, I don't even know you. Like, in the future, if I play in a game w/ Swinkee, I'd be extremely tempted to vote him out of resentment, or auto-use whatever ability I have on him(the same goes for Chamber because of how he acted in Trek mafia), but, I wouldn't do that..like I've said in Cartoon Mafia, I think that all players should strive to keep emotion as far away from the game as possible, as it really cannot be an asset in a game like mafia.
I'm just upset that you're so damn persuasive. You almost had me voting for myself.
I never meant to "defend" cpe, I was advising caution. What I said was that we should get a name claim before going further, not that he shouldn't be lynched. And I stand by the arguement I made at the time, we were all on board at that point, the fact that Az defended him meant little since Az's most recent post at the time was a "ya cpe should claim." Besides which, Wu were considered town aligned at that point, so I fail to see why I would come under much scrutiny for that. Not that it ended up mattering.
Raf: I knew for a fact that you were scum after you claimed. I really thought you were Hua Tuo after you suggested the existence of a roleblocking doctor, and when you "full-claimed" a protection role without mentioning the roleblock I thought you had, I knew that you knew about the roleblock on me, and were lying about it. If only I had been alive at the time...
We killed you because you knew too much, pretty much, and could wreck our claiming plans. Otherwise you would have been kept alive, since you would have been much easier to try to run up the flagpole than, say, fade.
That reminds me. Fayul: was it pre-planned that AH's block ability would override Azrael's? That was the other thing which screwed us over, on the night where AH blocked Az and thus exposed Az as a liar about not having an ability, we had actually tried to block AH.
Why did Azrael mention that at all? If he'd never said anything, or had at least disavowed getting a return PM for being blocked, he could have stuck to his story.
Edit:
Quote from loran16 »
Cyan, if it wasnt for your reaction, there was a good chance we wouldnt have gone after you and Jobie, but your reaction to swinkee just was such a tell.
How true. A simple "What the hell are you talking about?" probably would have seen swinkee lynched without too much suspicion on either you or Jobie.
Fayul: was it pre-planned that AH's block ability would override Azrael's? That was the other thing which screwed us over, on the night where AH blocked Az and thus exposed Az as a liar about not having an ability, we had actually tried to block AH.
Funny story: No, it wasn't preplanned:: like I said, I thought I wanted to give the Wei every advantage I could, so I figured the knowledge that there was a town RB that had blocked az would be pretty important. uhh, oops?
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Fayul, was there a reason why i got lynch immunity in the end? Was that timed or something?
On a sidenote, having RafK be the last mafia 2 special games in a row is hilarious and cruel...
I can't believe the town pulled this out. With a scum group, backup scum group, and a SK scum group active early this shouldve been impossible. Fortunately, the Lu bu group killed itself early.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Cyan, if it wasnt for your reaction, there was a good chance we wouldnt have gone after you and Jobie, but your reaction to swinkee just was such a tell.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
That is simply untrue. It was already decided before I reacted at all that one of us would be lynched to see whether or not Swinkee was telling the truth. As soon as that happened, it would confirm what Swinkee said, and the other would die. I'm almost as disappointed in the town for not actually wanting the info from Swinkee as I am in him for offering it in the first place. IMO, neither play is fair or acceptable; Swinkee cheated, and the town was more than happy to let him, since it might benefit them.
That is simply untrue. It was already decided before I reacted at all that one of us would be lynched to see whether or not Swinkee was telling the truth. As soon as that happened, it would confirm what Swinkee said, and the other would die. I'm almost as disappointed in the town for not actually wanting the info from Swinkee as I am in him for offering it in the first place. IMO, neither play is fair or acceptable; Swinkee cheated, and the town was more than happy to let him, since it might benefit them.
Okay to clear up a misconception. Swinkee did not cheat. Jobie doublecrossed Swinkee, so Swinkee fired back.
And I think you are wrong, as all the players who knew the source material seemed to think it unlikely that Lu Bu would be anything but a lone neutral SK. Once we lynched Swinkee, i thought it likely you might survive.
Oh well.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Revealing the name of people that are mafia with you because you've been outed by them is flatly cheating.
As for the latter, all I can say is, read back in the thread around the time when it was all going down, it was very obvious that one of us was going to be vigged to determine the validity of what was said.
I disagree on both counts. Cheating, by definition, is breaking the defined rules of the game. There's no listed rule that says scum can't out their teammates, it just goes against the spirit of the game. And there's a significant difference between cheating and going against the spirit of the game - cheating will get you blacklisted, whereas going against the spirit of the game just makes people not want to play with you.
As for the second point, all I can say is that I would have fought tooth and nail against vigging someone on the adivce of the SK (especially since it was becoming clear that the Wei were our main danger), if it hadn't been for your reaction, which was a giveaway. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, just that I think you could have salvaged the situation if you'd played it very, very well.
I disagree on both counts. Cheating, by definition, is breaking the defined rules of the game. There's no listed rule that says scum can't out their teammates, it just goes against the spirit of the game. And there's a significant difference between cheating and going against the spirit of the game - cheating will get you blacklisted, whereas going against the spirit of the game just makes people not want to play with you.
Stating in another forum that you were, in fact, telling the truth about the information while the situation was still unresolved is against the rules, however. HOI has been through a purge of that particular forum (OOC thread tends to get a bit long) since that exchange, but that's the conversation I was referencing with my post earlier.
The play itself was questionable, the actions that followed were unscrupulous.
And for a semantical argument, since your scum teammates would be listed in a PM, and you're dispensing that information, technically, it could be considered against the rules. (depending on how they're spelled out.)
Stating in another forum that you were, in fact, telling the truth about the information while the situation was still unresolved is against the rules, however. HOI has been through a purge of that particular forum (OOC thread tends to get a bit long) since that exchange, but that's the conversation I was referencing with my post earlier.
Oh, I had no idea he'd done that. In that case, I'd say it was going against the spirit of the game followed by cheating.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Yep, sure do. I'm there under the username Tycho- my character is Malric D'Argon. I'm also in your football league
Aww, man, real competition? =/ It might actually be a -challenge- to take it this year.
(To give you an idea of the HoI Fantasy football challenge last year: I picked up Drew Brees off of Waivers and rode him all season. hurrrr.)
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
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That and I'll never understand why Jobie decided that our method of killing(at the time) needed to die, and I think Swinkee is a POS..but oh well.
Also, to Kenji, I didn't have any retaliatory ability..after Lu Bu died, I was just made to perform NKs by myself...I died because you targeted me with your vig, but you would have also died had Arimnaes not protected you that same night.
See my post above. My WC at the time was to kill you. I was hoping he would out you since I didn't know who you were. Sadly, he outed me at the same time.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
@Fayul: MVP's and LVP's? I guess they might be tough to assign with like 4 different sides in this...
Does anyone have any juicy PM's to share? I have two that show why me thinking I'm right about something is inherently dangerous.
:/
Here's a pm i sent back in FEBRUARY.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Ah well. Congragulations town.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
There's the juiciest PM I have.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
From my POV:
Err..but I was mafia(sort of)..that's was my job. It's not personal, honestly, I don't even know you. Like, in the future, if I play in a game w/ Swinkee, I'd be extremely tempted to vote him out of resentment, or auto-use whatever ability I have on him(the same goes for Chamber because of how he acted in Trek mafia), but, I wouldn't do that..like I've said in Cartoon Mafia, I think that all players should strive to keep emotion as far away from the game as possible, as it really cannot be an asset in a game like mafia.
A very enjoyable read- great game!
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Wei MVP: RafaelK: He directed the town more than Az, and came damn close to winning. I might be biased in that that Emperor Xian claim was damn awesome.
Wei LVP: Creampuffeater. Duh.
Wu MVP: HuntedCharlie, the only Wu guy not to get Lynched, if memory serves.
Wu LVP: Chamber. I'm still really annoyed with him for getting the idea of falseclaims in the open, so, again, I might be biased here.
Shu MVP: Kenji. Got himself confirmed early, and offed so many valugable targets, including a blind hit on Charlie. Wasn't the best analyzer but was definitely the guy most instrumental to a shu win.
Shu LVP: This is really hard to say, nobody duid a clearly abysmal job, so I'll go with Ged. He did have a weak claim, yes, but he had absolutely no defence, and he couldn't even get a vig to test him.
Other MVP: Jobie. HURR NICE DAY 1 HIT MUST BE NICE
Other LVP: Jobie. HURR NICE JOB OUTING YOUR ENTIRE FACTION MUST BE NICE
sigged
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Lol..that's hilarious. Even if you were talking about me with that latter part, I'd still be laughing about it alot.
Great game btw, Fayul. I wish I'd been in it from the beginning(though I didn't even play Mafia when this game started, heh).
Bleh. This game really was no fun to me, though this was by no means the fault of anyone but myself. I just had no idea what I was doing, a poor claim, and... well, I guess that was about it. I had no idea at all what I was doing and it got me killed. Then I was too dissapointed with my play to keep following along. That just made the game worse for me as it turns out to have been a really good one. Ugh.
On a much less depressing note, great job Fayul. I am truely sorry that I didn't keep following along. And nice job on the win, Shu.
That's not true at all. I don't know if you MEANT to tell us, but we didn't know.
All we knew was that Jiang Wei was out there and that he was once mafia but we had lost communications with him. We didn't know who it was.
That screwed us up royally since our reactions were all wrong... we basically figured "here's someone confused"- obviously we figured Jiang Wei would claim JIANG WEI, and cpe had obviously done some research based on the two claims he put forward- and ran him over with the proverbial truck, then backed off a bit and defended him because that's what you do when you know you're lynching a townie.
I felt we were screwed from then on, moreso when we lost a kill and discovered fade's immunity (yay, nightkill immune analyst!). My godfather inspection immunity was worthless, since we killed the cop night 1. It's not ALWAYS a good thing, you know?
Anyway, I'd really like to not be mafia with an unknown member again. Rhino nearly screwed me up in Sin City and CPE did screw us up here. It should count as a negative to the mafia for balancing purposes
Not actually having lynch immunity (if I'd simply not been lynched without a name reveal and we'd gone to night, I'd love to hear from Kenji what he would have done...) and not gaining ANYTHING from killing loran was kind of annoying, too (we killed loran over arimnaes basically hoping that we would gain SOMETHING from killing all the emperors and successors after the fuss made about it, but nope!). The Wei was really weak... it felt like we were sacrificial lambs to fill in time and for the Wu or Dong Zhuo to be the real endgame threat.
Overall, I'm damn happy that Az and I made it so far and that I did enough to not even be lynched out of hand on the final day. Given the start and our relative lack of power, it's a moral victory. I don't know what more we could have done.
BTW Kenji, we saw your vig subclaim on day 1 but thought you were the SK because of it and left you alone. Oops!
See, they didn't make a mistake. They didn't know he was scum and thought they were defending a townie about to be lynched.
Losing CC during the night on the follow-up was a crushing loss. By the beginning of day two, the mafia had already been cut in half, to two members. That seemed to be more than enough to counterbalance the loss of the cop (which we were never quite sure was a strong point in our favor, since we feared a 2nd investigator or deputy). The scum-to-town ratio was well-balanced, but the mafia this game seemed to be facing a real up-hill battle compared to usual. That's not necessarily a bad thing, just an observation.
The notification PMs really came out of left field to haunt us as well. I had no idea that townies were getting verification of doc protection, so my claim turned to garbage pretty quick, and Raf's options were narrowed down.
I probably deserved to be lynched based on my push for CP alone, though. I knew it was going to look scummy, but after losing CC, I felt that at least one of us (preferably me, since I'd already received attention from defending CPE) had to take the risk of playing more aggressively. Still not sure if that was the correct choice or not, but I'm surprised that didn't come up as one of the rationales against me.
That is, I'm surprised more of my non-defending CPE behavior tells didn't ever really get analyzed. I don't think my play this game was very strong at all, and I probably deserved to be lynched sooner, but as it happened I was eventually lynched for things I had little control over. *shrug* Karma still won in the end.
Overall, the setup may have been balanced against the Wei, but I'm not really sure who it would have been balanced in favor of. The Shu had a hard row to hoe as well, since as the "town" they still made up barely 50% of the players, and they had to kill every single non-Shu in order to win. We would've never made it without Kenji decimating the Wu at night.
If anyone, the game probably favored the Wu, if they had realized they were pseudo-scum and kept their mouths shut about the safe claims.
Hmm. I assume I had a reason for doing that at one point. Oh well.
Sorry, but no. Just no. We were effectivly a mafia, having to eliminate both the wei and shu to win. But 1 we didnt know this 2 there were 3 of us 3 we couldnt talk to each other or know who each other were and 4 we had no night kill. How you can say we had a better chance of winning then the wei is far beyond me. Also I think the shu had a very good chance at winning. Looking at the game as town vs scum, Id say the town had about its usual chance at winning. Each individual scum group just had a much lower chance of winning because we were broken up into 3 smaller group instead of say, an sk and a single large mafia
Now I will gladly accept the lvp. With hindsight Its clear my action was pretty much as anti wu as one could get, However; if faced with the same situation again I think I would have played it the same way. My current win condition was only to kill the wei, and it was only hinted at that the shu MIGHT turn on us once the wei were dead. How was I suposed to know they 100% would. Bah.
My pm for reference(note I actually did think I'd kill kenji if he tried to kill me):
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
It was still a mistake to defend someone who was clearly not Shu and had no legitimate defense for his play. Even if he had turned up Wu, Az and CC would still have been tied in and possibly later lynched/vigged as suspected Wu.
arimnaes: the way I read it, I thought that Fayul had just missed another aspect of the role because she was presumably used to it being a basic roleblock. Keep in mind that I had been roleblocked the night before, and already had that in mind.
Raf: I knew for a fact that you were scum after you claimed. I really thought you were Hua Tuo after you suggested the existence of a roleblocking doctor, and when you "full-claimed" a protection role without mentioning the roleblock I thought you had, I knew that you knew about the roleblock on me, and were lying about it. If only I had been alive at the time...
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
I'm just upset that you're so damn persuasive. You almost had me voting for myself.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Will a list of roles be posted?
[The Family]
Just sayin'.
And for the record, I chose to inspect Azrael Night 1.
We killed you because you knew too much, pretty much, and could wreck our claiming plans. Otherwise you would have been kept alive, since you would have been much easier to try to run up the flagpole than, say, fade.
That reminds me. Fayul: was it pre-planned that AH's block ability would override Azrael's? That was the other thing which screwed us over, on the night where AH blocked Az and thus exposed Az as a liar about not having an ability, we had actually tried to block AH.
Edit:
How true. A simple "What the hell are you talking about?" probably would have seen swinkee lynched without too much suspicion on either you or Jobie.
Funny story: No, it wasn't preplanned:: like I said, I thought I wanted to give the Wei every advantage I could, so I figured the knowledge that there was a town RB that had blocked az would be pretty important. uhh, oops?
On a sidenote, having RafK be the last mafia 2 special games in a row is hilarious and cruel...
I can't believe the town pulled this out. With a scum group, backup scum group, and a SK scum group active early this shouldve been impossible. Fortunately, the Lu bu group killed itself early.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Cyan, if it wasnt for your reaction, there was a good chance we wouldnt have gone after you and Jobie, but your reaction to swinkee just was such a tell.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Okay to clear up a misconception. Swinkee did not cheat. Jobie doublecrossed Swinkee, so Swinkee fired back.
And I think you are wrong, as all the players who knew the source material seemed to think it unlikely that Lu Bu would be anything but a lone neutral SK. Once we lynched Swinkee, i thought it likely you might survive.
Oh well.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
As for the latter, all I can say is, read back in the thread around the time when it was all going down, it was very obvious that one of us was going to be vigged to determine the validity of what was said.
As for the second point, all I can say is that I would have fought tooth and nail against vigging someone on the adivce of the SK (especially since it was becoming clear that the Wei were our main danger), if it hadn't been for your reaction, which was a giveaway. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, just that I think you could have salvaged the situation if you'd played it very, very well.
Stating in another forum that you were, in fact, telling the truth about the information while the situation was still unresolved is against the rules, however. HOI has been through a purge of that particular forum (OOC thread tends to get a bit long) since that exchange, but that's the conversation I was referencing with my post earlier.
The play itself was questionable, the actions that followed were unscrupulous.
And for a semantical argument, since your scum teammates would be listed in a PM, and you're dispensing that information, technically, it could be considered against the rules. (depending on how they're spelled out.)
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Oh, I had no idea he'd done that. In that case, I'd say it was going against the spirit of the game followed by cheating.
Fortunately, I don't know that anyone else who plays on HOI was in that game, but the fact of the matter is it was not a good thing to do.
/anxiously awaits next game to start!
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Aww, man, real competition? =/ It might actually be a -challenge- to take it this year.
(To give you an idea of the HoI Fantasy football challenge last year: I picked up Drew Brees off of Waivers and rode him all season. hurrrr.)