Tough call that one; on the one hand, mafia1 needed to find the other mafia2 member to win, and Nom Anor was their best hope for that. On the other hand, if the town knew who both mafia 2 were, it would make it much easier for them to find mafia1 members.
I'm going with the latter, here. Remember that Mafia1 gets a kill every night. From the perspective of Mafia1, getting rid of confirmed players makes more sense because it doesn't increase the probability of being tagged as Mafia (i.e. keeps the number of uncomfirmed players the same); I know probability doesn't work out perfectly in Mafia due to play styles and such, but it's easier for a single Mafia to hide amongst five uncomfirmed players than four or less. Had Vampyr not been lynched Day 7, he most likely would've been nightkilled.
I KNEW I was spot on about sgdre. Thank goodness my Power is not being served up.
I felt if I wasn't lynched immediately, I could live on the "hey, lynching me does the town no good, let's look for mafia1" argument for a while, which was the case.
The only bad thing I did for the town was speed lynch swinkee. Everything else I was honestly trying to root out mafia1 players.
I don't know how Chamber picked groups for this, but I have to admit I was a bit dismayed about Mafia2 people. This was Dagger's and LFR's first game, my second and CPE I'm not sure about. There wasn't a whole lot of experience in our group. And it really showed. Props to Dagger for being the only sensible player in our group in keeping his head off the chopping block.
I pushed way too hard on loran and that got me into hot water too quickly. It's just something I have to learn from.
I told Dagger after I off'ed Swinkee that I wasn't going to hammer anyone else and do Mafia1's dirty work. I felt that in showing up and not voting for SB, it'd force a Mafia1 player to drop the hammer.
Playing in this was quite different and enjoyable. My other games I replaced into roles that had already claimed, so not having to worry about a name/role claim wasn't a big deal. For me it really required me to read people's posts more than weigh how much I believed their claim on top of their posts. Taking out the claim factor simplifies the game, to me, and let me concentrate on just reading and analyzing posts.
I would definately want to try another game of this type if one was ever hosted.
Just be a little less aggresive day 2, kay? Your comments on day 2 made it obvious you were going to be investigated.
Still, you played it well. Also, Chamber randomly decided the roles, so it just randomly came out this way. But you are correct that M1 had 3 experienced players and M2 was 3 new players +CPE (Who's not really that good :-P). CPE is a very experienced player, he just goofs up spontaneously as scum a decent amount of the time.
Fortunately for M2, Dagger was fairly good.
BTW, my funniest moment of this game was watching Dagger post his spreadsheet which pointed to EACH M1 player as scum and ALSO pointed to HIMSELF (Dagger) as likely scum.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Haha, sweet...my first game as a mafia is a win. Great job bringing it home sgdre!
This was definitely an interesting game when it opened up.
-Alpha
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Yeah, uh, now that this is over I will go ahead and say that I think it could have been hosted a bit better. nan was newbie and the post he edited was quoted prior to his editing. I understand that it was within the rules that he could be mod killed, and I also understand that it is a good lesson for him, but I don't think I would have. It is obviously your game, though, and you are entitled to that.
The allowance of lurking towards the end of the game also annoyed me greatly. Ending a day two weeks after your main suspect's last post can not be good for the town. Even though we did hit mafia on him his reaction would have become valuable after his death.
And then, you know, my mod kill. I think it was a sham. I think the town would have won without it and doing so altered the game state tremendously. Besides that, as you even said, there was no precedent in the rules for doing so. It doesn't matter if I do something I know will be frowned upon. It matters if I do something against the rules. I didn't do anything against the rules, I shouldn't have been mod killed. Everything in a post in a mafia game is part of the game. Gaining reactions is a part of playing mafia, even more so in a game like this one where we have no claims whatsoever. The main reason why I posted that bit as opposed to not doing so was to see how sgdre and Cubus would react. That is a fair play, if you ask me. Furthermore, for you to kill me straight off without even clarifying it with me when I am obviously available through both PM and IM makes it even more frustrating to me. And regardless, the information which I posted could in no way be used as actual reasoning for a lynch. If someone did then I was going to be suspicious of them. Mods often do not post their new day scenes until after all actions are complete. I know I did. As a result I think that my mod kill was absolutely unfair to the town, and to me as a player.
I am especially upset about being mod killed because I cared more about this game and gave more to it than probably any other game that I have played in. I think the lack of claims made for a much more interesting and fun game. It also makes it more obvious to me that I am more of a reaction player than a claim player. And I like that.
Furthering that point, I thought my play was very good in this game. And not to tut my own horn, because I hate doing so, but before the mod kill I was expecting a Town MVP award. I was able to confirm myself as townie solely on my play, I noted LFR and CFE's bad logic and the connection between the two and I was on the LJ lynch. Yes, I never did end up voting Alpha, and yes, I lynched two townies on poor bandwagons. Regardless, if not me I feel it should have been Cubus. I'm sorry, StormBlind was killed far too early, in my mind, to be Town MVP. Just knowing who scum are is great and all, but not being able to get them lynched makes it irrelevant. Now maybe my play during Day 8 may have changed it. I might have supported a Dagger lynch, I'm not sure. But I should have had that chance, at least in my mind.
Now as for the game. I really think MMOD played a bad game and there was some evidence of connection with him and mafia2 in Day 2 and Day 3. I was convinced on that. For mafia1 I was really unsure. sgdre's play in regards to LJ was very bothersome as was his proxy of his vote onto mine. After Alpha came up as mafia1 I should have known to go after him. That made it so if I ended up voting for Alpha he looked good too while if he didn't end up voting for Alpha it wasn't his fault, it was a confirmed townie's fault, which is also makes him look alright. His repeated praise of my play also should have given it away, barning a confirmed townie seems to make you look good as scum, eh? Anyway, I hope I would have caught these things if the day would have continued.
Lol, barn SG ftw!!! I agree that the modkill on SG seemed a little excessive, but hey, Chambers call. I was actually expecting him to win MVP even after his death.
As for the setup, I thought that it was VERY biased to the town. 3 mafia in a town of 16 would be tough, but the fact that we got nk's only every night made it VERY tough. Maf2 essentially had no chance from the beggining IMO. They had no way to deal with the cop (maybe allow them 2 guesses per game on the cop, if they get it he gets nk'd in addition to maf1's nk). The only reason they were still in it towards the end, and the reason that I nk'd NA over SG, is that we needed maf2 around to distract the town. The only reason we were still in it was due to some iffy town play and 2 modkills (although I think I still had a chance with SG alive).
I thought the scummiest thing I did was where I picked up on Swinkee's subtle claim "did u just claim cop?" but didnt unvote even tho he was hammer -1.
I thought I did okay during the latter part of the game (other then the entire don't reread follow sgdre thing).
I did pick up on CPE early, and I advocated for both AI and LJ, not to mention figuring out that lynching LJ was best move on that day (although I suppose mafia2 would want that too).
Honestly, the only really mafia2 thing I think I did was advocate letting vamp survive.
Oh, and Im curious what people think about the vamp thing. At the time I advocated it, I actually thought it was in the best interest of the town. Do other people disagree?
Also, Chamber randomly decided the roles, so it just randomly came out this way.
I realize that. My intention was to curse fate for the way things fell. I probably should wake up a bit more before posting. I in no way meant anything by what I said. Just poorly phrased it. Sorry for that.
Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't the game be considered a tie between mafia1 and the town. After Dagger's lynch and an nk of a town there'd be one townie and one mafia left. Neither have a majority to control the town.
I'm not trying to second guess Chamber here, just wondering about end game scenarios.
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Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@SG. It wasn't in the rules, but I understand it to be in the 'unwritten' rules of the game. Just like you don't ask for time stamps on pms. I consider it the same. The fact that you also believe this was enough for the mod kill imo. I get that you feel otherwise, and if it makes you feel better everyone who I've talked to agrees with you, but I felt it crossed a line and I delt with it.
@sgrde it wasn't that heavily favored for the town. I agree now it was by a bit, hence my cut a townie remark. In a game liek this each side should have equal chance of winning this obv means a decreased chance from the 1/2 of usual to 1/3. I think it was accomplished fine. I mean the town doesn't have much more influence then the mafia at the beggining, if they get going and increase there % it can be a land slide, but it could easily go the other way, a couple town lynches to start and now they don't even have majority.
@vampyr The game would have 1 mafia1 and 1 town as you said, no majority would be reached so the game would go to night and the mafia1 would kill and win.
Even if we do get ahead tho, every time the town lynches a maf1 it sets back our clock. Normally the town would have a certain number of mislynches before they lost. In this game, every time a maf1 gets lynched the town essentially gets a bonus mislynch.
Even if we do get ahead tho, every time the town lynches a maf1 it sets back our clock. Normally the town would have a certain number of mislynches before they lost. In this game, every time a maf1 gets lynched the town essentially gets a bonus mislynch.
I'll admit that this game forces more attention on the day then the night, thats something I wanted. At the same time the existence of a second mafia gives you more room to work with during the day, as you said before.
BTW, my funniest moment of this game was watching Dagger post his spreadsheet which pointed to EACH M1 player as scum and ALSO pointed to HIMSELF (Dagger) as likely scum.
Did I implicate myself with that spreadsheet? I thought I cleared myself with that at that point of time.
BTW, I want to ask something. Around a week or so before the game ended, I think after SG was modkilled, I found that I couldn't see the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread" at all, in the mafia part of the forum and other parts too. At that point of time, I was wondering whether it was a new implementation of the site or something. However, after this game ended, I found that I could see it again. Was it intentional as part of the mafia game? If so, how come it was not limited to this place only?
Did I implicate myself with that spreadsheet? I thought I cleared myself with that at that point of time.
BTW, I want to ask something. Around a week or so before the game ended, I think after SG was modkilled, I found that I couldn't see the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread" at all, in the mafia part of the forum and other parts too. At that point of time, I was wondering whether it was a new implementation of the site or something. However, after this game ended, I found that I could see it again. Was it intentional as part of the mafia game? If so, how come it was not limited to this place only?
They turn the feature off during rumor season cause it takes up too many resources with as many people as we get.
You cant blame cubus here... You screwed up I did not read the rest of the game, cept the papes around the SG modkill, and sorry SG, but I agree with chamber here. You specifically said you KNEW it was bad, and STILL wanted to do it. Listening to him talk about the modkill, I truely believe had you not said that, you would of survived. I think that I might have had a MUCH better chance if it wasn't for LFRs evil barning :mad:. About me as scum, Loran you are actually kinda wrong on your assumptions that I screw up as scum. I have only ever screwed up twice as scum, and one of them bieng this game. I also love how Mr. I havent survived a day as scum, says I am a bad scum. I enjoyed the part of the game I was in, cept for my stupid mistake that got me killed. (Seriously when you are not thinking, that Day2 thing is VERY confusing.)
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I'm a little on the fence about the SG thing. I agree that it seemed like SG was being kind of beligerent about it, but it also seemed like he was just being honest. Plus, when people can sign up with names like 'Unvote Vote Pod' and can view the thread while invisible, I really don't see why they can't watch people's PM activity too.
You cant blame cubus here... You screwed up I did not read the rest of the game, cept the papes around the SG modkill, and sorry SG, but I agree with chamber here. You specifically said you KNEW it was bad, and STILL wanted to do it. Listening to him talk about the modkill, I truely believe had you not said that, you would of survived. I think that I might have had a MUCH better chance if it wasn't for LFRs evil barning :mad:. About me as scum, Loran you are actually kinda wrong on your assumptions that I screw up as scum. I have only ever screwed up twice as scum, and one of them bieng this game. I also love how Mr. I havent survived a day as scum, says I am a bad scum. I enjoyed the part of the game I was in, cept for my stupid mistake that got me killed. (Seriously when you are not thinking, that Day2 thing is VERY confusing.)
Have we stumbled on a joke?
I still blame Cubus. Evil, evil Cubus.
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I'm going with the latter, here. Remember that Mafia1 gets a kill every night. From the perspective of Mafia1, getting rid of confirmed players makes more sense because it doesn't increase the probability of being tagged as Mafia (i.e. keeps the number of uncomfirmed players the same); I know probability doesn't work out perfectly in Mafia due to play styles and such, but it's easier for a single Mafia to hide amongst five uncomfirmed players than four or less. Had Vampyr not been lynched Day 7, he most likely would've been nightkilled.
EDIT: Correction; there was no Night 7. Odd.
Just be a little less aggresive day 2, kay? Your comments on day 2 made it obvious you were going to be investigated.
Still, you played it well. Also, Chamber randomly decided the roles, so it just randomly came out this way. But you are correct that M1 had 3 experienced players and M2 was 3 new players +CPE (Who's not really that good :-P). CPE is a very experienced player, he just goofs up spontaneously as scum a decent amount of the time.
Fortunately for M2, Dagger was fairly good.
BTW, my funniest moment of this game was watching Dagger post his spreadsheet which pointed to EACH M1 player as scum and ALSO pointed to HIMSELF (Dagger) as likely scum.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
This was definitely an interesting game when it opened up.
-Alpha
The allowance of lurking towards the end of the game also annoyed me greatly. Ending a day two weeks after your main suspect's last post can not be good for the town. Even though we did hit mafia on him his reaction would have become valuable after his death.
And then, you know, my mod kill. I think it was a sham. I think the town would have won without it and doing so altered the game state tremendously. Besides that, as you even said, there was no precedent in the rules for doing so. It doesn't matter if I do something I know will be frowned upon. It matters if I do something against the rules. I didn't do anything against the rules, I shouldn't have been mod killed. Everything in a post in a mafia game is part of the game. Gaining reactions is a part of playing mafia, even more so in a game like this one where we have no claims whatsoever. The main reason why I posted that bit as opposed to not doing so was to see how sgdre and Cubus would react. That is a fair play, if you ask me. Furthermore, for you to kill me straight off without even clarifying it with me when I am obviously available through both PM and IM makes it even more frustrating to me. And regardless, the information which I posted could in no way be used as actual reasoning for a lynch. If someone did then I was going to be suspicious of them. Mods often do not post their new day scenes until after all actions are complete. I know I did. As a result I think that my mod kill was absolutely unfair to the town, and to me as a player.
I am especially upset about being mod killed because I cared more about this game and gave more to it than probably any other game that I have played in. I think the lack of claims made for a much more interesting and fun game. It also makes it more obvious to me that I am more of a reaction player than a claim player. And I like that.
Furthering that point, I thought my play was very good in this game. And not to tut my own horn, because I hate doing so, but before the mod kill I was expecting a Town MVP award. I was able to confirm myself as townie solely on my play, I noted LFR and CFE's bad logic and the connection between the two and I was on the LJ lynch. Yes, I never did end up voting Alpha, and yes, I lynched two townies on poor bandwagons. Regardless, if not me I feel it should have been Cubus. I'm sorry, StormBlind was killed far too early, in my mind, to be Town MVP. Just knowing who scum are is great and all, but not being able to get them lynched makes it irrelevant. Now maybe my play during Day 8 may have changed it. I might have supported a Dagger lynch, I'm not sure. But I should have had that chance, at least in my mind.
Now as for the game. I really think MMOD played a bad game and there was some evidence of connection with him and mafia2 in Day 2 and Day 3. I was convinced on that. For mafia1 I was really unsure. sgdre's play in regards to LJ was very bothersome as was his proxy of his vote onto mine. After Alpha came up as mafia1 I should have known to go after him. That made it so if I ended up voting for Alpha he looked good too while if he didn't end up voting for Alpha it wasn't his fault, it was a confirmed townie's fault, which is also makes him look alright. His repeated praise of my play also should have given it away, barning a confirmed townie seems to make you look good as scum, eh? Anyway, I hope I would have caught these things if the day would have continued.
As for the setup, I thought that it was VERY biased to the town. 3 mafia in a town of 16 would be tough, but the fact that we got nk's only every night made it VERY tough. Maf2 essentially had no chance from the beggining IMO. They had no way to deal with the cop (maybe allow them 2 guesses per game on the cop, if they get it he gets nk'd in addition to maf1's nk). The only reason they were still in it towards the end, and the reason that I nk'd NA over SG, is that we needed maf2 around to distract the town. The only reason we were still in it was due to some iffy town play and 2 modkills (although I think I still had a chance with SG alive).
I thought the scummiest thing I did was where I picked up on Swinkee's subtle claim "did u just claim cop?" but didnt unvote even tho he was hammer -1.
I did pick up on CPE early, and I advocated for both AI and LJ, not to mention figuring out that lynching LJ was best move on that day (although I suppose mafia2 would want that too).
Honestly, the only really mafia2 thing I think I did was advocate letting vamp survive.
Oh, and Im curious what people think about the vamp thing. At the time I advocated it, I actually thought it was in the best interest of the town. Do other people disagree?
Yeah, I realized after I made the post with the pbpa that I should have just kept my mouth shut and went at things a bit differently.
Thank you
I realize that. My intention was to curse fate for the way things fell. I probably should wake up a bit more before posting. I in no way meant anything by what I said. Just poorly phrased it. Sorry for that.
Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't the game be considered a tie between mafia1 and the town. After Dagger's lynch and an nk of a town there'd be one townie and one mafia left. Neither have a majority to control the town.
I'm not trying to second guess Chamber here, just wondering about end game scenarios.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@sgrde it wasn't that heavily favored for the town. I agree now it was by a bit, hence my cut a townie remark. In a game liek this each side should have equal chance of winning this obv means a decreased chance from the 1/2 of usual to 1/3. I think it was accomplished fine. I mean the town doesn't have much more influence then the mafia at the beggining, if they get going and increase there % it can be a land slide, but it could easily go the other way, a couple town lynches to start and now they don't even have majority.
@vampyr The game would have 1 mafia1 and 1 town as you said, no majority would be reached so the game would go to night and the mafia1 would kill and win.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
I'll admit that this game forces more attention on the day then the night, thats something I wanted. At the same time the existence of a second mafia gives you more room to work with during the day, as you said before.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
BTW, I want to ask something. Around a week or so before the game ended, I think after SG was modkilled, I found that I couldn't see the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread" at all, in the mafia part of the forum and other parts too. At that point of time, I was wondering whether it was a new implementation of the site or something. However, after this game ended, I found that I could see it again. Was it intentional as part of the mafia game? If so, how come it was not limited to this place only?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
They turn the feature off during rumor season cause it takes up too many resources with as many people as we get.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Have we stumbled on a joke?
I still blame Cubus. Evil, evil Cubus.