lol, I edited half an hour before you posted Pay attention But yeah, sorry, that's what I get for posting at 2 in the night after a long and tiresome dnd session.
mmd: How is cpe playing differently?
edit: wtf? :S
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I'm always sorta shocked to see a modkill. It makes me skip a heartbeat for some reason...I don't know why.
With the modkill revealing some new information, I'm going to need time to go back and look over the thread to see what tidbits can be gleaned from people's previous posts. Unfortunately, with me leaving tomorrow for the holiday, I'm not going to have much time to post.
If I can, I will post some of my opinions tonight, if not tonight then I will definately have much to say on Monday.
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
So he edited his post and got modkilled for it?
ouch.
Remind me not to do that.
MMoD: What do you mean that CPE is acting differently? Could you give us a bit more detail?
Loran: Your right, I missed Alpha Insidious. He also has been making only a few, low content posts. Other than him though, few other people had been making such small and far between posts. There are a few other people with fewer posts, yes, but most of them have made posts with at least some substance, not 2 lines of banter.
I am not counting MMoD in this, not because he isn't suspicious, but because he has already come under a lot of fire for lurking, and my pointing that out wouldn't help much. Besides Nan and Alpha, the only other person who seems to be overly lurking would be stormblind, but he has made a few decent sized posts, so he is slightly lower on my scumdar.
So inconclusion, you are right, I did miss alpha and stormblind. But the major reason I had noticed Nan lurking was the post he just made saying that he would continue to be making few posts, and saying that he was rather indecicive. I noticed this, and decided to go back and count his prior posts, which led me to notice that he really hadent done anything at all.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Wow, modkill a moderator. Remind Nom Anor and myself not to edit posts in a Mafia game.
@loran16: Okay, that's impressive. I don't know that you can check out the number of postings by each individual in a thread that way.
@MMOD: You said CPE usually lurks, but now he's spelling and typing well? Okay... As for StormBlind, he FOSed LJustus, saying only LJustus made a big deal about him voting himself. Although, I rather thought that he was just trying to get the game moving. Speaking of which, where is he?
So he edited his post and got modkilled for it?
ouch.
Remind me not to do that.
MMoD: What do you mean that CPE is acting differently? Could you give us a bit more detail?
Loran: Your right, I missed Alpha Insidious. He also has been making only a few, low content posts. Other than him though, few other people had been making such small and far between posts. There are a few other people with fewer posts, yes, but most of them have made posts with at least some substance, not 2 lines of banter.
I am not counting MMoD in this, not because he isn't suspicious, but because he has already come under a lot of fire for lurking, and my pointing that out wouldn't help much. Besides Nan and Alpha, the only other person who seems to be overly lurking would be stormblind, but he has made a few decent sized posts, so he is slightly lower on my scumdar.
So inconclusion, you are right, I did miss alpha and stormblind. But the major reason I had noticed Nan lurking was the post he just made saying that he would continue to be making few posts, and saying that he was rather indecicive. I noticed this, and decided to go back and count his prior posts, which led me to notice that he really hadent done anything at all.
Why you're my top target (even BEFORE nan was revealed as townie):
1. You were clearly fence sitting. You raised suspicion at one player with invalid evidence and also raised suspicion at the other side of the argument (that CPE and Looking were illogical_
2. You didnt vote or FOS anyone. This goes further to the fence sitting argument. You simply went on there and raised suspicion at both players , but didnt actually move your vote or FOS them, the two actions that are the most easily traced. This is a very scummy form of fence sitting, as it appears you're trying to get away with not being on either wagon while helping to push it to a lynch.
3. You targetted a person (Nan) who's recent posts might invoke the feeling of lurking. You did no backtracking to see if that was true, and didnt target others who also fit that description. It's like you picked a specific target for invalid reasons, in hope that recent posts by that player would get others to take up your cause.
For these reasons, plus the fact that Nan was a townie (Making it possible you belong to either mafia), I will Confirm Vote Nom_Anor
@Dagger, Modkilling moderators rofl. I guess nan wont be merging double posts any time soon :-P
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Although, I rather thought that he was just trying to get the game moving. Speaking of which, where is he?
Who is he? I don't see how a self-vote could be intended to spark discussion - other than to bring suspicion on the person who cast it. Like I said before, there is no good reason for a townie to self-vote. All it does is bring attention to that townie, and we don't need townies bringing attention or suspicion on themselves. We need mafia to do so.
@ Loran: I see your argument. I would like Nom_Amor to address these points. (I have some ideas of the things he might say, but I'd rather he say them.)
So, as I see it, the people who have drawn the most unwanted attention, or 'tripped my scumdar' as it were, are:
Looking for Reality
Nom_Amor
Stormblind
I am re-reading to see if anything (or anyone) else jumps out at me.
He as in StormBlind. I was suspicious of the self-vote too but nan said it was something that StormBlind does every game. I thought the fact that he FOSed you in retaliation of your questioning doesn't speak well for himself, but I have not seen him posts again since then to properly judge his further actions.
The 3 points loran16 raised against Nom Anor caught my attention. It does explain slightly Nom Anor's cautiousness in the early part of this game.
By the way, I think Nom Anor did FOS someone (CPE) in post 122 but he didn't bold it.
Well.. I believe the quotes are self-explanatory. LfR had a sudden change of heart because of CPE's post, which contained pretty crappy logic already, and then he voted along. I think that's a lot more bandwagonning/crap logic than I've seen nan do.
Yes, I have no clue why LFR followed me, but I thought I had a scum. And I guess I was wrong, as he was townie. Either way, even though LFR jumped a little to quickly, I am not sure if that pins him as scum, or confused noob.
Okay, is Nan just looking really suspicious to anyone else. He has only had about 7 posts, and not a single one of them has had more then three lines of text to them, not the least bit substantial. I rather feel that he either should have some pressure put on him, or maybe that he should be replaced. He is not contributing in the least, and he says he has a lot to do, but even when he didn't have much to do, he still wasn't posting much.
So as of now, the three people I am watching suspiciously are LFR and Creampuffeater, for the already much stated reasons, and Nan, for the lurking.
As Loran said, you are sitting on the fence, you are suspicous of EVERYBODY that was under a little fire there, and you dont even vote. I think that warents a Vote N_A
Is it just me or is CPE playing much differently this game?
MMoD when was the last time we were in a game together? was it ROTK? I tend to change my style a bit, and I think that in a game with a LOT of scum, you have to play agressive.
He as in StormBlind. I was suspicious of the self-vote too but nan said it was something that StormBlind does every game. I thought the fact that he FOSed you in retaliation of your questioning doesn't speak well for himself, but I have not seen him posts again since then to properly judge his further actions.
The 3 points loran16 raised against Nom Anor caught my attention. It does explain slightly Nom Anor's cautiousness in the early part of this game.
By the way, I think Nom Anor did FOS someone (CPE) in post 122 but he didn't bold it.
1 FoS, OMG. It still is fence sitting, with not voting anybody. I think my list of top scums is:
1. N_A
2. not sure
3. Possibly LFR, but not sure
4. Chimp for wierd defending.
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Sry that my posting has kinda dropped off over thanksgiving break. I am currently doing a re-read lookng specifically at interactions with nan and N_A.
O great.... the person I think is Scum, is dead town. I want to know why Chimp defended him instantly, and was almost garenteed town. FoS: Chimp.
So... you're calling me suspicious for defending a townie?
Just for reference this is what you are referring to, right?
Quote from Me »
It also seems that you're trying to start a noob wagon on Nan more than anything else. Could you please point to his "craplogic" and explain why being the second vote on a person (maybe the third since he decided to leave his random vote there after a third vote was added) makes him a wagoner?
I defended him because I thought you're case against him was BS and it looked to me like you were just going after a noob for being a noob. (BTW, did you ever answer those questions I asked in that post, and if you did can you give me a post number?)
Quote from CPE »
Quote from Cubus »
Well.. I believe the quotes are self-explanatory. LfR had a sudden change of heart because of CPE's post, which contained pretty crappy logic already, and then he voted along. I think that's a lot more bandwagonning/crap logic than I've seen nan do.
Yes, I have no clue why LFR followed me, but I thought I had a scum. And I guess I was wrong, as he was townie. Either way, even though LFR jumped a little to quickly, I am not sure if that pins him as scum, or confused noob.
So you don't refute that you were using crappy logic and then declare LFR suspicious for agreeing with your logic?
Wow. It is getting pretty hard to decide which of you and LFR is scummier, but at this point I'm happy with a vote on either. UnvoteVote CPE
I would also add that defending someone as scum doesnt seem to be as good a move in this game, b/c one might just be defending someone in the other scum group.
This makes Chimps defense seem a little more natural.
I would also add that defending someone as scum doesnt seem to be as good a move in this game, b/c one might just be defending someone in the other scum group.
This makes Chimps defense seem a little more natural.
I'm not sure what you mean here. I assume what you're trying to say is that if Chimp was scum, he wouldn't want to defend nan because he might be defending another scum group. But why would defending nan be a good move if he was a townie (and he is a townie, obviously)?
Things of note before i have to go:
CPE is being irrational (which tends to be a scum tell with him in forums/irc).
Dagger is Fence sitting as well, talking about people being suspicious without ever really doing anything about it. He also hasn't voted besides his random vote.
Sgdre is tied with CPE for most active in votes. (loran, chimp, ljustus, looking). However, none but the last was serious. Worth a note, ,but not really that important.
Still waiting on Nom's response as of now.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
LfR: Sometimes scum like to try to protect townies so that it looks good for them if the townie dies. I am saying that that move makes less sense in this game b/c scum dont know for sure who the townies are.
So... you're calling me suspicious for defending a townie?
Just for reference this is what you are referring to, right?
sgdre is actually right about this. In a normal game (one mafia group), it often makes sense for a mafia member to defend a townie from an early rush of suspicion. If that townie is later demonstrated to be a townie (like Nan has been in this case), the scum that protected the townie now has 'townie points' for defending that townie earlier. In a two-mafia set-up, it becomes a more risky proposition for a mafia member to protect an unknown because the unknown may, in fact, be a member of the other mafia group. (That, I think sums up what sgdre was saying.)
Also Chimp, I think you may be reading CPE's last statement a little incorrectly. I don't think he has admitted to craplogic. Instead, he looks to me to be trying to distance himself from LFR, stating that because LFR followed him, seemingly un-questioningly, that he may be scum or merely a confused n00b. I think you may be looking to hard at CPE and not seeing the scum for the trees. (Or something like that. I'm bad at metaphors.) I thought about it a bit, and of the two, I think I find LFR's following more scummy than CPE's craplogic.
So, of the players who have caught my notice so far, I'm going to vote: LookingforReality for now. I would like to hear a defense from you LFR. If it is acceptable, I will certainly unvote and look for more scum.
Few more notes. My top 2 scum right now are Nom Anor (still waiting to hear from him) and CPE with looking close behind.
Its worth noting that CPE has changed his vote 4 times, and has FOSed a massive EIGHT times (5 of those being his mass FOS) with 3 of those 8 being Chimp whom he FOSed 3 different times. Massive FOSing is generally a scum tell (fence sitting and allowing you to spread suspicion around in a way hard to trace) and his vote changing strikes me as scummy as well.
Looking on the other hand hasnt much Votes or FOSes at all.
STILL WAITING ON NOM_ANOR. Maybe then i'll unvote.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So, of the players who have caught my notice so far, I'm going to vote: LookingforReality for now. I would like to hear a defense from you LFR. If it is acceptable, I will certainly unvote and look for more scum.
Although both creampuffeater and I voted nan, we in actuality had very different reason for doing so. Here is creampuffeater's post:
Out of this list, I want to look at Nan in paticular, not only has he had crap logic, but he wagoned. A typical noob scum tell Vote Nan. I know this is his first game, but this game has a lot of scum, so the noob card should not get as much credit. I know, I am sounding a little harsh, but I think I found a scum
Creampuffeater's argument was that nan had used crap logic (which I, too, could not find, most likely because nan didn't post much logic in the first place) and then said that nan should not be excused for being a noob with this many scum.
However, nan started with a random vote and didn't take that vote off; and still hasn't. Although I suspect everyone on that wagon, as I said, I think a vote nan is a good idea.
and
A lurker wagon may have been legitimate, but nan's post was not. It added little content and little to the discussion. I don't think it was a reasonable explanation for him keeping his random vote.
Nan hasn't added any content other than that for the entire game. The bandwagon on him can get him to finally post something of worth.
My arguments were that nan's vote on the bandwagon was random, and when MMoD turned into a wagon, he did not give a satisfactory reason for unvoting ("we should lynch someone") nor a specific argument on why MMoD was scummy. Also, nan hadn't posted any content except for that. And even that did not have much.
Creampuffeater's case on nan only reminded me of my nan's suspicions. While obviously the two posts weren't completely unrelated, I wasn't exactly mirroring him or "following him blindly". You can see that we had very different arguments.
Nan has been killed, and nan turned out to be townie. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't have voted him before. He seemed scummy to me, and that, above all, was the reason for my vote on him.
The "I almost *glares at lfr* missed another page" vote count.
StormBlind 1 (StormBlind)
Chimp 1 (Dagger)
Lfr 3 (Cubus sgdre Ljustus)
Nom Anor 2 (loran ImHungry)
ImHungry 1 (chimp)
I'm here, i apologize, but i find the majority of this pretty dumb.
we're focusing on 2-3 people nearly exclusively, (LFR / CPE). Looking at the odds, its a good bet that ATLEAST one of them is scum, and the other is as well likely. (3 main suspects, nan, LFR, CPE. Nan = Town. Other 2 = mafia :P)
So, im going to unvote, Vote CPE
LFR went along with what CPE said, but i consider expousing such nonsense worse as it can corrupt othrers.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
1. You were clearly fence sitting. You raised suspicion at one player with invalid evidence and also raised suspicion at the other side of the argument (that CPE and Looking were illogical_
2. You didnt vote or FOS anyone. This goes further to the fence sitting argument. You simply went on there and raised suspicion at both players , but didnt actually move your vote or FOS them, the two actions that are the most easily traced. This is a very scummy form of fence sitting, as it appears you're trying to get away with not being on either wagon while helping to push it to a lynch.
No, I didn't vote for anyone. I didn't vote for anyone because I only get one vote, and I did not feel I could vote for only CPE or LFR without voting for the other. With them I was merely confirming that I agreed that they were acting scummy, not agressivelly attacking them. I did not directly FoS anyone either, but as FoSes don't actually mean anything, I figured that my labeling them as suspicious would be enough. (and I was FoSing CPE already anyway)
3. You targetted a person (Nan) who's recent posts might invoke the feeling of lurking. You did no backtracking to see if that was true, and didnt target others who also fit that description. It's like you picked a specific target for invalid reasons, in hope that recent posts by that player would get others to take up your cause.
Did no backtracking to see if this was true? In the post you are mentioning
I specically said that "He has only had about 7 posts, and not a single one of them has had more then three lines of text to them, not the least bit substantial.". So I clearly went back and double checked that it was true. I checked his # of posts(which was very few.) and although I wasn't positive about his # of posts, I did turn out to be correct. I also read those posts, and was able to confirm that they were all tiney and insubstantial.
Okay, so I missed another lurker. But as I said, it was the post he had just made that led me to check his lurking habits. I went and doublechecked on Nan, but didn't doublecheck the others who might be lurkers. I didn't have the time to go back and count the # of posts of every single person, and I (like several other people) didn't know about the magic post count button.
You are on my back because I suggested we put a bit of pressure on a lurker. Because of 4 of my lines suggesting that Nan was lurking and that people should keep an eye on him.
Your right, I am not the most direct player. But you seem to have gone on quite the agressive over FOUR LINES suggesting we watch a lurker a bit more closely. And you know what, that seems just a bit scummy to me. So if you want directness, here is some directess for you. FoS: CPE
FoS: Looking for reality
Vote: Loran16
Is this a bit of a OMGYS vote? Perhaps; but you seem to have gone on quite the offensive towards me without much reason, so I think I will go on the offensive a towards you, with more reasons than you have against me.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
No, I didn't vote for anyone. I didn't vote for anyone because I only get one vote, and I did not feel I could vote for only CPE or LFR without voting for the other. With them I was merely confirming that I agreed that they were acting scummy, not agressivelly attacking them. I did not directly FoS anyone either, but as FoSes don't actually mean anything, I figured that my labeling them as suspicious would be enough. (and I was FoSing CPE already anyway)
Did no backtracking to see if this was true? In the post you are mentioning
I specically said that "He has only had about 7 posts, and not a single one of them has had more then three lines of text to them, not the least bit substantial.". So I clearly went back and double checked that it was true. I checked his # of posts(which was very few.) and although I wasn't positive about his # of posts, I did turn out to be correct. I also read those posts, and was able to confirm that they were all tiney and insubstantial.
Okay, so I missed another lurker. But as I said, it was the post he had just made that led me to check his lurking habits. I went and doublechecked on Nan, but didn't doublecheck the others who might be lurkers. I didn't have the time to go back and count the # of posts of every single person, and I (like several other people) didn't know about the magic post count button.
You are on my back because I suggested we put a bit of pressure on a lurker. Because of 4 of my lines suggesting that Nan was lurking and that people should keep an eye on him.
Your right, I am not the most direct player. But you seem to have gone on quite the agressive over FOUR LINES suggesting we watch a lurker a bit more closely. And you know what, that seems just a bit scummy to me. So if you want directness, here is some directess for you. FoS: CPE
FoS: Looking for reality
Vote: Loran16
Is this a bit of a OMGYS vote? Perhaps; but you seem to have gone on quite the offensive towards me without much reason, so I think I will go on the offensive a towards you, with more reasons than you have against me.
Rofl. Not only are you continuing to fence sit (not choosing one of the two bigger suspects besides you) but you're using a clearly OMGUS vote!!!
Also, you didnt miss 1 lurker, but you missed FOUR OTHERS!!!
Also, you claiming that you dont want to vote for one of the three candidates because you can't vote all of them is funny. If you're townie, and you think that they're scum, you'd vote one of them, make a note of suspicion toward the others, and vote the others should your target clear himself somehow (say...claim cop). Instead you decide to assert no pressure toward any of them?
Seriously, its not like others havent seen my point. You say that i have gone after you without much reason, but apparently you havent noticed other players AGREEING or making note of my arguments. Seriously, and what is your point against me? That ive used reasoning that others agree to be worth consideration to question your motives? How is that a scum-trait?
Confirm Vote (Again) Nom Anor
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
1. You were clearly fence sitting. You raised suspicion at one player with invalid evidence and also raised suspicion at the other side of the argument (that CPE and Looking were illogical_
So it's illegal to suspect people now? I raised suspiscion towards Nan. It is quite the stretch to say I tried to raise suspicion against LFR/CPE. The ONLY thing I said against either of them was, "So as of now, the three people I am watching suspiciously are LFR and Creampuffeater, for the already much stated reasons, and Nan, for the lurking.", my acnolegement of the suspicions of others.
Quote from loran16 »
2. You didnt vote or FOS anyone. This goes further to the fence sitting argument. You simply went on there and raised suspicion at both players , but didnt actually move your vote or FOS them, the two actions that are the most easily traced. This is a very scummy form of fence sitting, as it appears you're trying to get away with not being on either wagon while helping to push it to a lynch.
Quote from loran 16 »
Its worth noting that CPE has changed his vote 4 times, and has FOSed a massive EIGHT times (5 of those being his mass FOS) with 3 of those 8 being Chimp whom he FOSed 3 different times. Massive FOSing is generally a scum tell (fence sitting and allowing you to spread suspicion around in a way hard to trace)
So this is more logic I take it? Making only a few FoSes is suspicious. Making too many FoSes is suspicious. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but you only have 1 Fos also(with 2 or three votes compared to my one or 2).
Your adgenda against me is limited to:
1.You think I fence sit
2. I suggested to put a bit of pressure on a lurker who turned out to be a townie.
That is it.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
So it's illegal to suspect people now? I raised suspiscion towards Nan. It is quite the stretch to say I tried to raise suspicion against LFR/CPE. The ONLY thing I said against either of them was, "So as of now, the three people I am watching suspiciously are LFR and Creampuffeater, for the already much stated reasons, and Nan, for the lurking.", my acnolegement of the suspicions of others.
So this is more logic I take it? Making only a few FoSes is suspicious. Making too many FoSes is suspicious. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but you only have 1 Fos also(with 2 or three votes compared to my one or 2).
Your adgenda against me is limited to:
1.You think I fence sit
2. I suggested to put a bit of pressure on a lurker who turned out to be a townie.
That is it.
(Though it doesnt matter, i have 3 votes and 2 FOSes currently. I can give you their wearabouts in an instant if you want)
You raised suspicion against the 3 leading possible wagons. You didnt add a vote or even an FOS to any of the above wagons. Nan was suspected by CPE and Looking, whereas the other two were suspected by a bunch of others. Your post invented a new reason which wasnt true to suspect nan, while still trying to say you suspect the other two. That's called fence sitting. Its leaving open options for you to wagon any of the three likely lynches for the day (espcially since we're on a quick deadline) while not actually Doing anything. its as much of a nothing post as nan's with nothing really there at all (but invalid info).
And yes making too few actual actions to pressure a person is suspicous. Especially when you claim to suspect 3 other players. And yes making too many is suspicious, since its spreading suspicion to as many other players as possible. You're point on this is?
To continue my case on you is:
1. Brings up an invalid point against a player currently being wagoned.
2. Proceeds to continue in said post to lay grounds for suspicion of the 3 most likely lynch-candidates of the day in a post, without actually committing a vote or FOS even to any of them.
3. After someone brings forth these accusations against you, and have them echoed by a few other players (though only one other player from the irrational CPE), your response is not to try and defend your actions, but to attack the other person and make OMGUS votes.
I think that's a pretty decent case this early on.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
That OMGUS vote reeks of scum to me. I think Loran brought up some valid points, and your defense of those points was actually okay, Nom Amor, up until the vote. You never mentioned any suspicion (that I can recall) of Loran until he voiced suspicion of your actions. To vote him in this manner is either: A. Defensive n00b -or- B. Defensive scum (or C. Defensive scum n00b, but that's covered under B).
True, in a way I may have been fence sitting lately, but that was only because of hesitation on my part as to how to proceed onward. On one hand, there's CPE/LfR and on the other, there's Nom Anor, and also not to mention I have weird vibes coming from a few other people. I tend not to trust going after obvious targets because scums, knowing who each others are, would be able to move much more effectively and mount up a joint offense against those targets. So, when votes are swelling up quickly, it is something I take note of and be cautious. That's just generally how I think though. That said, let's now have a clean slate to start with. UnVote.
Since I am not sure what OMGUS is, I am going to go ahead and ask is it an abbreviation for "Oh My God, You Suck." as was stated in Urban Dictionary?
If so, then that was a bad defense by Nom Anor, as it seemed to me as if he was lashing out inappropriately in panic at loran16 for suspecting him. I will here note that Nom Anor seemed more outspoken after I pointed out his cautiousness, and now seemed more aggressive after loran16 brought up his suspicion. I think that merited a Vote Nom Anor on my part for now until proven otherwise.
2. You didnt vote or FOS anyone. This goes further to the fence sitting argument. You simply went on there and raised suspicion at both players , but didnt actually move your vote or FOS them, the two actions that are the most easily traced. This is a very scummy form of fence sitting, as it appears you're trying to get away with not being on either wagon while helping to push it to a lynch.
3. After someone brings forth these accusations against you, and have them echoed by a few other players (though only one other player from the irrational CPE), your response is not to try and defend your actions, but to attack the other person and make OMGUS votes.
I think these particular points efficiently summed up my current thoughts on Nom Anor.
Thanks, and now I am curious as to how all these terms get into Mafia games somehow.
In mafia, it refers to a vote made out of just anger at someone voting them, but for no other reason. Somehow it evolved into a scumtell, as scums would try and turn suspicion on them toward their accuser.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I think your missing the point of my OMGUS vote. My point was that was that he was overreacting to my actions, so I was overreacting back.
And yes, in the next post, I do attack back at his logic. As I said before, his only points are that I have been fence sitting and that I was suggesting we pay a bit more attention to a specific lurker who ended up being a townie.
In that next post I was trying to prove that "Fence Sitting" is very hard to define, and that he can, and does, call action he chooses to be "fence sitting".
Also, yes, I was a bit suspicious of Nan. Unfortunatelly, he turned out to be a townie. One think to remember though, is that, unlike in a normal game, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know whether someone was town or not, so the fact that someone I was suspicious of turned out to be town doesn't mean quite as much as usual.
So my point has been, not neccecarrily LORAN IS SCUM! OMG! LOOK AT HIM! LYNCH HIM! NO NOT ME! LYNCH HIM!, but more that Loran has no real point for attacking me. (See, he clearly has a vendetta against me, first in Newb 9, now this.)
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Oops. small typo. that second paragraph should read
In that next post I was trying to prove that "Fence Sitting" is very hard to define, and that he can, and does, call any action he chooses to be "fence sitting".
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I think your missing the point of my OMGUS vote. My point was that was that he was overreacting to my actions, so I was overreacting back.
And yes, in the next post, I do attack back at his logic. As I said before, his only points are that I have been fence sitting and that I was suggesting we pay a bit more attention to a specific lurker who ended up being a townie.
In that next post I was trying to prove that "Fence Sitting" is very hard to define, and that he can, and does, call action he chooses to be "fence sitting".
Also, yes, I was a bit suspicious of Nan. Unfortunatelly, he turned out to be a townie. One think to remember though, is that, unlike in a normal game, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know whether someone was town or not, so the fact that someone I was suspicious of turned out to be town doesn't mean quite as much as usual.
So my point has been, not neccecarrily LORAN IS SCUM! OMG! LOOK AT HIM! LYNCH HIM! NO NOT ME! LYNCH HIM!, but more that Loran has no real point for attacking me. (See, he clearly has a vendetta against me, first in Newb 9, now this.)
I have a vendetta against you for letting you replace a player? O_O. I fail to see how that makes sense [/kidding]
That said, you dont seem to understand me. Large #s of votes and FOSes arent fence sitting, but are someone trying to spread suspicion around everywhere. It's beeing on too many people at once, something that a townie would be unlikely to do.
You're doing the other extreme, staying off any townie's wagons, but fueling the likely-strong ones with statements that dont add anything, or perhaps arent even true.
Im happy with my vote.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
EBWODP, Fence sitting, as clearly as i can define it, is someone who is sayign they are suspicious of multiple others (who almost often are in some sort of contrast to each other, tho this game is weird), while not taking a stand. In this case, its you being suspicious of Nan, CPE, and looking, when nan vs CPE+looking was the situation. You took both sides, while not commiting yourself. Its textbook fence sitting.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
My point was, a vote without much reaoning behind it looks rediculous. I was trying to show that he really has no more case against me than I would against him, and because of this, it really looks as rediculous as my OMGUS vote against him. Perhaps I did not communicate very well on this point, but I suppose thats what I get for posting at 9:30 after getting 3 hours of sleep last night.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
But loran did build a fairly decent case for this stage of the game against you. Your reasoning that he makes no case actual case against you doesn't stand, and the fact that you've blantantly OMGUS'd and haven't even unvoted after a period of time to 'cool off' shows me what you are.
And I didn't answer that again but here is my responce to that claim the first time.
post164
"Your right, I missed Alpha Insidious. He also has been making only a few, low content posts. Other than him though, few other people had been making such small and far between posts. There are a few other people with fewer posts, yes, but most of them have made posts with at least some substance, not 2 lines of banter.
I am not counting MMoD in this, not because he isn't suspicious, but because he has already come under a lot of fire for lurking, and my pointing that out wouldn't help much. Besides Nan and Alpha, the only other person who seems to be overly lurking would be stormblind, but he has made a few decent sized posts, so he is slightly lower on my scumdar."
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I haven't been following the case on Nom_Anor very closely so its time for a PBPA.
First there are a few posts in the random phase, not worth analyzing.
Post 67
I guess I don't feel that bandwagoning is often a good idea. Lynches should be well thought out, not rushed into.
The faster a lynch happens, the less time we have to examine arguments, and the less time we have to find bad logic.
I'm not arguing against pressure, but I feel bandwagoning is just asking for trouble. Take the time neccecary to make sure we arent making a mistake.
We should have about 10 days for day 1. This isn't a huge amount of time, but I don't feel we have to rush into anything.
Anti-bandwagoning is a bad thing, but this seems more like a misinterpretation of the word than any scum tell based on what he uses as reasoning.
Post 89
I'm sorry, I guess I was under the impression that Bandwagoining was rushing into the lynch of a person without giving them much of a chance to respond.
And while speaking of giving people a chance to respond, I am going to hold off on voting for MMoD until he has at least made a first post(or gets replaced.)
Here he admits that he says that he had misinterpreted the term "bandwagon" and the definition he provides does fit with his previous post. The second part of this post is more interesting because he says that he's willing to join the lurker wagon on MMoD, but only after MMoD has started posting. His failure to understand the point of a lurker wagon is more noobish than scummy, but saying that he is willing to join it despite clearly not understanding the purpose of it is a bit scummy.
Post 104
So since this is Thanksgiving weekend, should we expect to see everone posting more or less because of this?
(more because of the extra time or less becasue there are more things going on.)
I should be able to post more, will everyone else be doing the same?
Not much here.
Post 122
Quote from CPE »
I think that atleast 1 scum was on that fast MMOD wagon. so Fos: Nan, SG, Swink, Chimp, LJ. With a game of about half scum, a fast quicklynch lurker wagon should deffinatly have scum.
This is one post I see as really horrible logic. In a game of about half scum, just about any group of people will have scum in it. The odds of not having one scum in a group of 5 people would be very slim.
Fos: Creampuffeater.
His reasoning is mathematically sound (the odds of a random group of five being entirely town at that point in the game was a little under 3%) and I agree with him that the quoted post is scummy. A weak, unbolded FOS seems a bit noncommittal but otherwise nothing too bad here.
Post 129
My point was that, given any 5 people, of course there would be scum there. So if that is what you are baseing your accusations off of, then you might as well just FOS: everyone, becasue out of 16 people, 7 of them are going to be scum.
Here he's just clarifying post 122 and his reasoning is sound. Moving on.
Post 146
Okay, is Nan just looking really suspicious to anyone else. He has only had about 7 posts, and not a single one of them has had more then three lines of text to them, not the least bit substantial. I rather feel that he either should have some pressure put on him, or maybe that he should be replaced. He is not contributing in the least, and he says he has a lot to do, but even when he didn't have much to do, he still wasn't posting much.
So as of now, the three people I am watching suspiciously are LFR and Creampuffeater, for the already much stated reasons, and Nan, for the lurking.
This is a somewhat misguided attack here against Nan, since his 7 insubstantial posts were far more than Alpha had. (And still is more. Where is Alpha anyway?) But the fact that Nan was posting, but without content did make his lurking a bit more noticeable than the other lurkers'. So basically I disagree with his conclusion that Nan was lurking but I can see why he thought it. It is easy to forget about the lurkers who aren't posting and notice the one who is if you don't know how to access the post counts.
Something also noteworthy here is he expresses suspicion towards almost everyone who anyone was suspicious of at the time of the post but neither votes nor even FOSes any of them.
Post 164
Wow. That was unexpected.
So he edited his post and got modkilled for it?
ouch.
Remind me not to do that.
MMoD: What do you mean that CPE is acting differently? Could you give us a bit more detail?
Loran: Your right, I missed Alpha Insidious. He also has been making only a few, low content posts. Other than him though, few other people had been making such small and far between posts. There are a few other people with fewer posts, yes, but most of them have made posts with at least some substance, not 2 lines of banter.
I am not counting MMoD in this, not because he isn't suspicious, but because he has already come under a lot of fire for lurking, and my pointing that out wouldn't help much. Besides Nan and Alpha, the only other person who seems to be overly lurking would be stormblind, but he has made a few decent sized posts, so he is slightly lower on my scumdar.
So inconclusion, you are right, I did miss alpha and stormblind. But the major reason I had noticed Nan lurking was the post he just made saying that he would continue to be making few posts, and saying that he was rather indecicive. I noticed this, and decided to go back and count his prior posts, which led me to notice that he really hadent done anything at all.
Here he explains why he considered Nan to be lurking and not those with even lower post counts after being shown the post count totals. The content here seems reasonable.
Post 184
Quote from Loran »
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1. You were clearly fence sitting. You raised suspicion at one player with invalid evidence and also raised suspicion at the other side of the argument (that CPE and Looking were illogical_
2. You didnt vote or FOS anyone. This goes further to the fence sitting argument. You simply went on there and raised suspicion at both players , but didnt actually move your vote or FOS them, the two actions that are the most easily traced. This is a very scummy form of fence sitting, as it appears you're trying to get away with not being on either wagon while helping to push it to a lynch.
No, I didn't vote for anyone. I didn't vote for anyone because I only get one vote, and I did not feel I could vote for only CPE or LFR without voting for the other. With them I was merely confirming that I agreed that they were acting scummy, not agressivelly attacking them. I did not directly FoS anyone either, but as FoSes don't actually mean anything, I figured that my labeling them as suspicious would be enough. (and I was FoSing CPE already anyway)
Quote from Loran »
3. You targetted a person (Nan) who's recent posts might invoke the feeling of lurking. You did no backtracking to see if that was true, and didnt target others who also fit that description. It's like you picked a specific target for invalid reasons, in hope that recent posts by that player would get others to take up your cause.
Did no backtracking to see if this was true? In the post you are mentioning
I specically said that "He has only had about 7 posts, and not a single one of them has had more then three lines of text to them, not the least bit substantial.". So I clearly went back and double checked that it was true. I checked his # of posts(which was very few.) and although I wasn't positive about his # of posts, I did turn out to be correct. I also read those posts, and was able to confirm that they were all tiney and insubstantial.
Okay, so I missed another lurker. But as I said, it was the post he had just made that led me to check his lurking habits. I went and doublechecked on Nan, but didn't doublecheck the others who might be lurkers. I didn't have the time to go back and count the # of posts of every single person, and I (like several other people) didn't know about the magic post count button.
You are on my back because I suggested we put a bit of pressure on a lurker. Because of 4 of my lines suggesting that Nan was lurking and that people should keep an eye on him.
Your right, I am not the most direct player. But you seem to have gone on quite the agressive over FOUR LINES suggesting we watch a lurker a bit more closely. And you know what, that seems just a bit scummy to me. So if you want directness, here is some directess for you.
FoS: CPE
FoS: Looking for reality
Vote: Loran16
Is this a bit of a OMGYS vote? Perhaps; but you seem to have gone on quite the offensive towards me without much reason, so I think I will go on the offensive a towards you, with more reasons than you have against me.
This whole thing seems to be over post 146. The first part seems a little illogical since if you want to vote for both of two people but only have one vote the solution is to vote for one of them, not neither. I agree with point 2 from Loran's case, but I think point 1 and point 3 can both be explained by the misunderstanding explained in 164. The vote seems like an overreaction and he admits it is an OMGUS. Currently what I see is mostly noobishness.
Post 186
You've used reasoning against me? Really?
Quote from Loran »
1. You were clearly fence sitting. You raised suspicion at one player with invalid evidence and also raised suspicion at the other side of the argument (that CPE and Looking were illogical_
So it's illegal to suspect people now? I raised suspiscion towards Nan. It is quite the stretch to say I tried to raise suspicion against LFR/CPE. The ONLY thing I said against either of them was, "So as of now, the three people I am watching suspiciously are LFR and Creampuffeater, for the already much stated reasons, and Nan, for the lurking.", my acnolegement of the suspicions of other
Quote from Loran »
2. You didnt vote or FOS anyone. This goes further to the fence sitting argument. You simply went on there and raised suspicion at both players , but didnt actually move your vote or FOS them, the two actions that are the most easily traced. This is a very scummy form of fence sitting, as it appears you're trying to get away with not being on either wagon while helping to push it to a lynch.
Quote from Loran »
Its worth noting that CPE has changed his vote 4 times, and has FOSed a massive EIGHT times (5 of those being his mass FOS) with 3 of those 8 being Chimp whom he FOSed 3 different times. Massive FOSing is generally a scum tell (fence sitting and allowing you to spread suspicion around in a way hard to trace)
So this is more logic I take it? Making only a few FoSes is suspicious. Making too many FoSes is suspicious. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but you only have 1 Fos also(with 2 or three votes compared to my one or 2).
Your adgenda against me is limited to:
1.You think I fence sit
2. I suggested to put a bit of pressure on a lurker who turned out to be a townie.
That is it.
Mostly a reiteration of his previous post here and states that he thinks Loran has a bit of a double standard. I do agree with Loran's analysis that CPE voting/FOSing so much is scummy and that not doing either at all is equally scummy, but I can see why N_A would get further frustrated by seeing Loran attack him for acting one way, while attacking CPE for acting exactly the opposite way, and calling both fence-sitting.
Post 193
I think your missing the point of my OMGUS vote. My point was that was that he was overreacting to my actions, so I was overreacting back.
And yes, in the next post, I do attack back at his logic. As I said before, his only points are that I have been fence sitting and that I was suggesting we pay a bit more attention to a specific lurker who ended up being a townie.
In that next post I was trying to prove that "Fence Sitting" is very hard to define, and that he can, and does, call action he chooses to be "fence sitting".
Also, yes, I was a bit suspicious of Nan. Unfortunatelly, he turned out to be a townie. One think to remember though, is that, unlike in a normal game, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know whether someone was town or not, so the fact that someone I was suspicious of turned out to be town doesn't mean quite as much as usual.
So my point has been, not neccecarrily LORAN IS SCUM! OMG! LOOK AT HIM! LYNCH HIM! NO NOT ME! LYNCH HIM!, but more that Loran has no real point for attacking me. (See, he clearly has a vendetta against me, first in Newb 9, now this.)
I actually agree with his reasoning here (aside from the bit in parentheses) I think the attack against as well as his vote against Loran seem to me to be overreactions.
In summary, this whole thing seems to have been a snowball effect from expressing some suspicion of Nan in post 146, which just seems to be more of a misunderstanding than anything, and reading over his posts, his defense makes sense to me. I can see the case against him but I believe that aside from overreacting to Loran's attacks he seems to have justified his actions fairly well.
CPE and LFR on the other hand are much more worthy of our attention in my opinion.
That's some good analysis Chimp. I think, for me, it's the over-reaction that tripped my scumdar. At this time, I still believe my vote is in the right place.
The overreaction seems more like the typical frustrated noob who has explained himself repeatedly to no avail than a scum tell. In my experience it is very common for inexperienced players to overreact to a persistent attacker by voting back at them.
That's some good analysis Chimp. I think, for me, it's the over-reaction that tripped my scumdar. At this time, I still believe my vote is in the right place.
I agree with this very much, and I think he probably is the lynch for today. I find overreactions to be a huge tell, and that N_A deffinatly overreacted. As for LFR, he seems to be acting a lot better now, asking a lot of questions that need to be answered. I still think he is a little suspicous though.
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<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I agree with this very much, and I think he probably is the lynch for today. I find overreactions to be a huge tell, and that N_A deffinatly overreacted. As for LFR, he seems to be acting a lot better now, asking a lot of questions that need to be answered. I still think he is a little suspicous though.
I find overreactions to be a noob tell and not much else. Seriously, go read a few noob games. As for you're comment about LFR, people don't change alignment so acting better now just means that a scum realized what they did was a tell and are changing their style so as not to seem any more scummy. Also, speaking of fence-sitting how about those last two sentences there. Compliment him in one and then declare him a little suspicious in the second? Can you say "scum distancing tactic"? You try not to seem allied with him after complimenting him by calling him suspicious, but you try not to draw too much negative attention to him by since he's only "a little suspicious".
As for LFR's questions, I find taking the tone of a cheap psychiatrist to be a very scummy thing to do. The third question is even worse bull**** than the rest because if you actually read his posts it should be perfectly clear that he's not voting Loran with intent to lynch.
Quote from Nom_Anor in post 193 »
I think your missing the point of my OMGUS vote. My point was that was that he was overreacting to my actions, so I was overreacting back.
Can we please quit the noob wagon and go after either of the two blatant scum? Please?
Hello? Town? Anybody home?
As for LFR's questions, I find taking the tone of a cheap psychiatrist to be a very scummy thing to do. The third question is even worse bull**** than the rest because if you actually read his posts it should be perfectly clear that he's not voting Loran with intent to lynch.
I assume you are referring to this
"Do you think that loran would be a good lynch today despite saying that the reason behind the vote was to show loran how rediculous his case was?" (which actually wasn't the third question)
I think it's silly to think that this question isn't valid. He never stated he didn't suspect loran beyond his omgus vote. Sure, he said that it was just a way to show how rediculous loran was being, but he had not unvoted then
If anything is bull****, it's you saying I am acting like a "cheap psychiatrist". I wanted him to answer some of the questions I had in mind. Can you think of any other way to do that other than asking him?
This makes me more suspicious of you than any other. Either you are scum trying to shovel meritless suspicion on me, or you are very mistaken about the meaning of my post.
Either way, vote Chimp
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Looking back, I quoted him so it might not be too bad. But, yes, modkills do happen over that. But nan, actually, don't say anything.
mmd: How is cpe playing differently?
edit: wtf? :S
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With the modkill revealing some new information, I'm going to need time to go back and look over the thread to see what tidbits can be gleaned from people's previous posts. Unfortunately, with me leaving tomorrow for the holiday, I'm not going to have much time to post.
If I can, I will post some of my opinions tonight, if not tonight then I will definately have much to say on Monday.
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So he edited his post and got modkilled for it?
ouch.
Remind me not to do that.
MMoD: What do you mean that CPE is acting differently? Could you give us a bit more detail?
Loran: Your right, I missed Alpha Insidious. He also has been making only a few, low content posts. Other than him though, few other people had been making such small and far between posts. There are a few other people with fewer posts, yes, but most of them have made posts with at least some substance, not 2 lines of banter.
I am not counting MMoD in this, not because he isn't suspicious, but because he has already come under a lot of fire for lurking, and my pointing that out wouldn't help much. Besides Nan and Alpha, the only other person who seems to be overly lurking would be stormblind, but he has made a few decent sized posts, so he is slightly lower on my scumdar.
So inconclusion, you are right, I did miss alpha and stormblind. But the major reason I had noticed Nan lurking was the post he just made saying that he would continue to be making few posts, and saying that he was rather indecicive. I noticed this, and decided to go back and count his prior posts, which led me to notice that he really hadent done anything at all.
@loran16: Okay, that's impressive. I don't know that you can check out the number of postings by each individual in a thread that way.
@MMOD: You said CPE usually lurks, but now he's spelling and typing well? Okay... As for StormBlind, he FOSed LJustus, saying only LJustus made a big deal about him voting himself. Although, I rather thought that he was just trying to get the game moving. Speaking of which, where is he?
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Why you're my top target (even BEFORE nan was revealed as townie):
1. You were clearly fence sitting. You raised suspicion at one player with invalid evidence and also raised suspicion at the other side of the argument (that CPE and Looking were illogical_
2. You didnt vote or FOS anyone. This goes further to the fence sitting argument. You simply went on there and raised suspicion at both players , but didnt actually move your vote or FOS them, the two actions that are the most easily traced. This is a very scummy form of fence sitting, as it appears you're trying to get away with not being on either wagon while helping to push it to a lynch.
3. You targetted a person (Nan) who's recent posts might invoke the feeling of lurking. You did no backtracking to see if that was true, and didnt target others who also fit that description. It's like you picked a specific target for invalid reasons, in hope that recent posts by that player would get others to take up your cause.
For these reasons, plus the fact that Nan was a townie (Making it possible you belong to either mafia), I will Confirm Vote Nom_Anor
@Dagger, Modkilling moderators rofl. I guess nan wont be merging double posts any time soon :-P
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Who is he? I don't see how a self-vote could be intended to spark discussion - other than to bring suspicion on the person who cast it. Like I said before, there is no good reason for a townie to self-vote. All it does is bring attention to that townie, and we don't need townies bringing attention or suspicion on themselves. We need mafia to do so.
@ Loran: I see your argument. I would like Nom_Amor to address these points. (I have some ideas of the things he might say, but I'd rather he say them.)
So, as I see it, the people who have drawn the most unwanted attention, or 'tripped my scumdar' as it were, are:
Looking for Reality
Nom_Amor
Stormblind
I am re-reading to see if anything (or anyone) else jumps out at me.
The 3 points loran16 raised against Nom Anor caught my attention. It does explain slightly Nom Anor's cautiousness in the early part of this game.
By the way, I think Nom Anor did FOS someone (CPE) in post 122 but he didn't bold it.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
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As Loran said, you are sitting on the fence, you are suspicous of EVERYBODY that was under a little fire there, and you dont even vote. I think that warents a Vote N_A
MMoD when was the last time we were in a game together? was it ROTK? I tend to change my style a bit, and I think that in a game with a LOT of scum, you have to play agressive.
O great.... the person I think is Scum, is dead town. I want to know why Chimp defended him instantly, and was almost garenteed town. FoS: Chimp.
As I said earlier, my style tends to change. I feel very comfiterable in this game, and as for spelling, I still cant spell.
1 FoS, OMG. It still is fence sitting, with not voting anybody. I think my list of top scums is:
1. N_A
2. not sure
3. Possibly LFR, but not sure
4. Chimp for wierd defending.
So... you're calling me suspicious for defending a townie?
Just for reference this is what you are referring to, right?
I defended him because I thought you're case against him was BS and it looked to me like you were just going after a noob for being a noob. (BTW, did you ever answer those questions I asked in that post, and if you did can you give me a post number?)
So you don't refute that you were using crappy logic and then declare LFR suspicious for agreeing with your logic?
Wow. It is getting pretty hard to decide which of you and LFR is scummier, but at this point I'm happy with a vote on either.
Unvote Vote CPE
3CB and 4CB5CB!This makes Chimps defense seem a little more natural.
I'm not sure what you mean here. I assume what you're trying to say is that if Chimp was scum, he wouldn't want to defend nan because he might be defending another scum group. But why would defending nan be a good move if he was a townie (and he is a townie, obviously)?
CPE is being irrational (which tends to be a scum tell with him in forums/irc).
Dagger is Fence sitting as well, talking about people being suspicious without ever really doing anything about it. He also hasn't voted besides his random vote.
Sgdre is tied with CPE for most active in votes. (loran, chimp, ljustus, looking). However, none but the last was serious. Worth a note, ,but not really that important.
Still waiting on Nom's response as of now.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
sgdre is actually right about this. In a normal game (one mafia group), it often makes sense for a mafia member to defend a townie from an early rush of suspicion. If that townie is later demonstrated to be a townie (like Nan has been in this case), the scum that protected the townie now has 'townie points' for defending that townie earlier. In a two-mafia set-up, it becomes a more risky proposition for a mafia member to protect an unknown because the unknown may, in fact, be a member of the other mafia group. (That, I think sums up what sgdre was saying.)
Also Chimp, I think you may be reading CPE's last statement a little incorrectly. I don't think he has admitted to craplogic. Instead, he looks to me to be trying to distance himself from LFR, stating that because LFR followed him, seemingly un-questioningly, that he may be scum or merely a confused n00b. I think you may be looking to hard at CPE and not seeing the scum for the trees. (Or something like that. I'm bad at metaphors.) I thought about it a bit, and of the two, I think I find LFR's following more scummy than CPE's craplogic.
So, of the players who have caught my notice so far, I'm going to vote: LookingforReality for now. I would like to hear a defense from you LFR. If it is acceptable, I will certainly unvote and look for more scum.
Its worth noting that CPE has changed his vote 4 times, and has FOSed a massive EIGHT times (5 of those being his mass FOS) with 3 of those 8 being Chimp whom he FOSed 3 different times. Massive FOSing is generally a scum tell (fence sitting and allowing you to spread suspicion around in a way hard to trace) and his vote changing strikes me as scummy as well.
Looking on the other hand hasnt much Votes or FOSes at all.
STILL WAITING ON NOM_ANOR. Maybe then i'll unvote.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Although both creampuffeater and I voted nan, we in actuality had very different reason for doing so. Here is creampuffeater's post:
Creampuffeater's argument was that nan had used crap logic (which I, too, could not find, most likely because nan didn't post much logic in the first place) and then said that nan should not be excused for being a noob with this many scum.
and
My arguments were that nan's vote on the bandwagon was random, and when MMoD turned into a wagon, he did not give a satisfactory reason for unvoting ("we should lynch someone") nor a specific argument on why MMoD was scummy. Also, nan hadn't posted any content except for that. And even that did not have much.
Creampuffeater's case on nan only reminded me of my nan's suspicions. While obviously the two posts weren't completely unrelated, I wasn't exactly mirroring him or "following him blindly". You can see that we had very different arguments.
Nan has been killed, and nan turned out to be townie. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't have voted him before. He seemed scummy to me, and that, above all, was the reason for my vote on him.
almost*glares at lfr* missed another page" vote count.StormBlind 1 (StormBlind)
Chimp 1 (Dagger)
Lfr 3 (Cubus sgdre Ljustus)
Nom Anor 2 (loran ImHungry)
ImHungry 1 (chimp)
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Unvote
we're focusing on 2-3 people nearly exclusively, (LFR / CPE). Looking at the odds, its a good bet that ATLEAST one of them is scum, and the other is as well likely. (3 main suspects, nan, LFR, CPE. Nan = Town. Other 2 = mafia :P)
So, im going to unvote, Vote CPE
LFR went along with what CPE said, but i consider expousing such nonsense worse as it can corrupt othrers.
No, I didn't vote for anyone. I didn't vote for anyone because I only get one vote, and I did not feel I could vote for only CPE or LFR without voting for the other. With them I was merely confirming that I agreed that they were acting scummy, not agressivelly attacking them. I did not directly FoS anyone either, but as FoSes don't actually mean anything, I figured that my labeling them as suspicious would be enough. (and I was FoSing CPE already anyway)
Did no backtracking to see if this was true? In the post you are mentioning
I specically said that "He has only had about 7 posts, and not a single one of them has had more then three lines of text to them, not the least bit substantial.". So I clearly went back and double checked that it was true. I checked his # of posts(which was very few.) and although I wasn't positive about his # of posts, I did turn out to be correct. I also read those posts, and was able to confirm that they were all tiney and insubstantial.
Okay, so I missed another lurker. But as I said, it was the post he had just made that led me to check his lurking habits. I went and doublechecked on Nan, but didn't doublecheck the others who might be lurkers. I didn't have the time to go back and count the # of posts of every single person, and I (like several other people) didn't know about the magic post count button.
You are on my back because I suggested we put a bit of pressure on a lurker. Because of 4 of my lines suggesting that Nan was lurking and that people should keep an eye on him.
Your right, I am not the most direct player. But you seem to have gone on quite the agressive over FOUR LINES suggesting we watch a lurker a bit more closely. And you know what, that seems just a bit scummy to me. So if you want directness, here is some directess for you.
FoS: CPE
FoS: Looking for reality
Vote: Loran16
Is this a bit of a OMGYS vote? Perhaps; but you seem to have gone on quite the offensive towards me without much reason, so I think I will go on the offensive a towards you, with more reasons than you have against me.
Rofl. Not only are you continuing to fence sit (not choosing one of the two bigger suspects besides you) but you're using a clearly OMGUS vote!!!
Also, you didnt miss 1 lurker, but you missed FOUR OTHERS!!!
Also, you claiming that you dont want to vote for one of the three candidates because you can't vote all of them is funny. If you're townie, and you think that they're scum, you'd vote one of them, make a note of suspicion toward the others, and vote the others should your target clear himself somehow (say...claim cop). Instead you decide to assert no pressure toward any of them?
Seriously, its not like others havent seen my point. You say that i have gone after you without much reason, but apparently you havent noticed other players AGREEING or making note of my arguments. Seriously, and what is your point against me? That ive used reasoning that others agree to be worth consideration to question your motives? How is that a scum-trait?
Confirm Vote (Again) Nom Anor
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
So it's illegal to suspect people now? I raised suspiscion towards Nan. It is quite the stretch to say I tried to raise suspicion against LFR/CPE. The ONLY thing I said against either of them was, "So as of now, the three people I am watching suspiciously are LFR and Creampuffeater, for the already much stated reasons, and Nan, for the lurking.", my acnolegement of the suspicions of others.
So this is more logic I take it? Making only a few FoSes is suspicious. Making too many FoSes is suspicious. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but you only have 1 Fos also(with 2 or three votes compared to my one or 2).
Your adgenda against me is limited to:
1.You think I fence sit
2. I suggested to put a bit of pressure on a lurker who turned out to be a townie.
That is it.
(Though it doesnt matter, i have 3 votes and 2 FOSes currently. I can give you their wearabouts in an instant if you want)
You raised suspicion against the 3 leading possible wagons. You didnt add a vote or even an FOS to any of the above wagons. Nan was suspected by CPE and Looking, whereas the other two were suspected by a bunch of others. Your post invented a new reason which wasnt true to suspect nan, while still trying to say you suspect the other two. That's called fence sitting. Its leaving open options for you to wagon any of the three likely lynches for the day (espcially since we're on a quick deadline) while not actually Doing anything. its as much of a nothing post as nan's with nothing really there at all (but invalid info).
And yes making too few actual actions to pressure a person is suspicous. Especially when you claim to suspect 3 other players. And yes making too many is suspicious, since its spreading suspicion to as many other players as possible. You're point on this is?
To continue my case on you is:
1. Brings up an invalid point against a player currently being wagoned.
2. Proceeds to continue in said post to lay grounds for suspicion of the 3 most likely lynch-candidates of the day in a post, without actually committing a vote or FOS even to any of them.
3. After someone brings forth these accusations against you, and have them echoed by a few other players (though only one other player from the irrational CPE), your response is not to try and defend your actions, but to attack the other person and make OMGUS votes.
I think that's a pretty decent case this early on.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Since I am not sure what OMGUS is, I am going to go ahead and ask is it an abbreviation for "Oh My God, You Suck." as was stated in Urban Dictionary?
If so, then that was a bad defense by Nom Anor, as it seemed to me as if he was lashing out inappropriately in panic at loran16 for suspecting him. I will here note that Nom Anor seemed more outspoken after I pointed out his cautiousness, and now seemed more aggressive after loran16 brought up his suspicion. I think that merited a Vote Nom Anor on my part for now until proven otherwise.
I think these particular points efficiently summed up my current thoughts on Nom Anor.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
In mafia, it refers to a vote made out of just anger at someone voting them, but for no other reason. Somehow it evolved into a scumtell, as scums would try and turn suspicion on them toward their accuser.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
And yes, in the next post, I do attack back at his logic. As I said before, his only points are that I have been fence sitting and that I was suggesting we pay a bit more attention to a specific lurker who ended up being a townie.
In that next post I was trying to prove that "Fence Sitting" is very hard to define, and that he can, and does, call action he chooses to be "fence sitting".
Also, yes, I was a bit suspicious of Nan. Unfortunatelly, he turned out to be a townie. One think to remember though, is that, unlike in a normal game, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know whether someone was town or not, so the fact that someone I was suspicious of turned out to be town doesn't mean quite as much as usual.
So my point has been, not neccecarrily LORAN IS SCUM! OMG! LOOK AT HIM! LYNCH HIM! NO NOT ME! LYNCH HIM!, but more that Loran has no real point for attacking me. (See, he clearly has a vendetta against me, first in Newb 9, now this.)
In that next post I was trying to prove that "Fence Sitting" is very hard to define, and that he can, and does, call any action he chooses to be "fence sitting".
I left out the any.
I have a vendetta against you for letting you replace a player? O_O. I fail to see how that makes sense [/kidding]
That said, you dont seem to understand me. Large #s of votes and FOSes arent fence sitting, but are someone trying to spread suspicion around everywhere. It's beeing on too many people at once, something that a townie would be unlikely to do.
You're doing the other extreme, staying off any townie's wagons, but fueling the likely-strong ones with statements that dont add anything, or perhaps arent even true.
Im happy with my vote.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
vote Nom Amor
Why haven't you unvoted?
Why did you chose this way to communicate yourself? Why didn't you just say you thought it was rediculous?
Why do you think your defense to loran ended with a wagon on you?
Do you think that loran would be a good lynch today despite saying that the reason behind the vote was to show loran how rediculous his case was?
And finally:
I don't believe you answered this... What would be your answer?
OMGUS + Loran's case seem pretty compelling.
Right now Im going to just FOS N_A, as Im not 100% on the vote count, but that is effectively a vote.
And I didn't answer that again but here is my responce to that claim the first time.
post164
"Your right, I missed Alpha Insidious. He also has been making only a few, low content posts. Other than him though, few other people had been making such small and far between posts. There are a few other people with fewer posts, yes, but most of them have made posts with at least some substance, not 2 lines of banter.
I am not counting MMoD in this, not because he isn't suspicious, but because he has already come under a lot of fire for lurking, and my pointing that out wouldn't help much. Besides Nan and Alpha, the only other person who seems to be overly lurking would be stormblind, but he has made a few decent sized posts, so he is slightly lower on my scumdar."
First there are a few posts in the random phase, not worth analyzing.
Post 67
Anti-bandwagoning is a bad thing, but this seems more like a misinterpretation of the word than any scum tell based on what he uses as reasoning.
Post 89
Here he admits that he says that he had misinterpreted the term "bandwagon" and the definition he provides does fit with his previous post. The second part of this post is more interesting because he says that he's willing to join the lurker wagon on MMoD, but only after MMoD has started posting. His failure to understand the point of a lurker wagon is more noobish than scummy, but saying that he is willing to join it despite clearly not understanding the purpose of it is a bit scummy.
Post 104
Not much here.
Post 122
His reasoning is mathematically sound (the odds of a random group of five being entirely town at that point in the game was a little under 3%) and I agree with him that the quoted post is scummy. A weak, unbolded FOS seems a bit noncommittal but otherwise nothing too bad here.
Post 129
Here he's just clarifying post 122 and his reasoning is sound. Moving on.
Post 146
This is a somewhat misguided attack here against Nan, since his 7 insubstantial posts were far more than Alpha had. (And still is more. Where is Alpha anyway?) But the fact that Nan was posting, but without content did make his lurking a bit more noticeable than the other lurkers'. So basically I disagree with his conclusion that Nan was lurking but I can see why he thought it. It is easy to forget about the lurkers who aren't posting and notice the one who is if you don't know how to access the post counts.
Something also noteworthy here is he expresses suspicion towards almost everyone who anyone was suspicious of at the time of the post but neither votes nor even FOSes any of them.
Post 164
Here he explains why he considered Nan to be lurking and not those with even lower post counts after being shown the post count totals. The content here seems reasonable.
Post 184
This whole thing seems to be over post 146. The first part seems a little illogical since if you want to vote for both of two people but only have one vote the solution is to vote for one of them, not neither. I agree with point 2 from Loran's case, but I think point 1 and point 3 can both be explained by the misunderstanding explained in 164. The vote seems like an overreaction and he admits it is an OMGUS. Currently what I see is mostly noobishness.
Post 186
Mostly a reiteration of his previous post here and states that he thinks Loran has a bit of a double standard. I do agree with Loran's analysis that CPE voting/FOSing so much is scummy and that not doing either at all is equally scummy, but I can see why N_A would get further frustrated by seeing Loran attack him for acting one way, while attacking CPE for acting exactly the opposite way, and calling both fence-sitting.
Post 193
I actually agree with his reasoning here (aside from the bit in parentheses) I think the attack against as well as his vote against Loran seem to me to be overreactions.
In summary, this whole thing seems to have been a snowball effect from expressing some suspicion of Nan in post 146, which just seems to be more of a misunderstanding than anything, and reading over his posts, his defense makes sense to me. I can see the case against him but I believe that aside from overreacting to Loran's attacks he seems to have justified his actions fairly well.
CPE and LFR on the other hand are much more worthy of our attention in my opinion.
Also, where's Alpha?
3CB and 4CB5CB!And what of these three questions? How would you respond to them?
3CB and 4CB5CB!I agree with this very much, and I think he probably is the lynch for today. I find overreactions to be a huge tell, and that N_A deffinatly overreacted. As for LFR, he seems to be acting a lot better now, asking a lot of questions that need to be answered. I still think he is a little suspicous though.
I certainyl do see the possibility, but I honestly view it more as option C.
I find overreactions to be a noob tell and not much else. Seriously, go read a few noob games. As for you're comment about LFR, people don't change alignment so acting better now just means that a scum realized what they did was a tell and are changing their style so as not to seem any more scummy. Also, speaking of fence-sitting how about those last two sentences there. Compliment him in one and then declare him a little suspicious in the second? Can you say "scum distancing tactic"? You try not to seem allied with him after complimenting him by calling him suspicious, but you try not to draw too much negative attention to him by since he's only "a little suspicious".
As for LFR's questions, I find taking the tone of a cheap psychiatrist to be a very scummy thing to do. The third question is even worse bull**** than the rest because if you actually read his posts it should be perfectly clear that he's not voting Loran with intent to lynch.
Can we please quit the noob wagon and go after either of the two blatant scum? Please?
Hello? Town? Anybody home?
3CB and 4CB5CB!I assume you are referring to this
"Do you think that loran would be a good lynch today despite saying that the reason behind the vote was to show loran how rediculous his case was?" (which actually wasn't the third question)
I think it's silly to think that this question isn't valid. He never stated he didn't suspect loran beyond his omgus vote. Sure, he said that it was just a way to show how rediculous loran was being, but he had not unvoted then
If anything is bull****, it's you saying I am acting like a "cheap psychiatrist". I wanted him to answer some of the questions I had in mind. Can you think of any other way to do that other than asking him?
This makes me more suspicious of you than any other. Either you are scum trying to shovel meritless suspicion on me, or you are very mistaken about the meaning of my post.
Either way, vote Chimp