I read the thread firmly believing that loran->bateleur was scum. Especially since bateleur kept on claiming kills on townies. I was totally shocked when bat died and came up town!
Between this and Stereotype Mafia I'm beginning to think you misread me fairly consistently !
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<Limited Clan>
Cubus didn't look at all like scum to me, which is why I picked him as the bait for my honeypot trap set in #1145.
Kops, on the other hand, had placed himself very high up my "probably SK" list with his big play in #1125. This is actually an excellent piece of pro-Town analysis and really helped us to win the game. Unfortunately the wording made me instantly suspicious. "The only known scum he ever voted for..." sounds a lot like he's trying to associate himself with this newly formed list of probable townies.
The player who really confused me was RandomActs. It's such a good thing he had a "not dangerous" attached to him, because aside from that he was looking sooo much like scum. Very weird play. He was at the top of my SK list above Kops !
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<Limited Clan>
Bat: Why did you make the decision to vig SP on n4 when there was still an active (known) information role?
I can understand doing that if you didn't have a cop left... but it seems to me a much lower-risk plan to have jobie investigate him instead. Double so since you lynched the godfather that day and could thus be reasonably sure that a "not dangerous" result actually means not-dangerous.
Obviously you couldn't explain why you were leaving SP alive going into the night... but I'd have strongly considered calling an audible based on the result of the Rian lynch.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
Tell me bats is bull****ting + you *didn't* hand me to him.
I can't answer this question in a way that will satisfy us both without giving too much information. I'll explain after the game is over.
. . .flavour bleed
This wasn't much fun from my end. Slow, + robbed at every turn. Even with an idiot vig + multiple town modkills, it didn't matter.
/bitter
The only thing I would have done differently is No-Kill Night 1 so loran's kill would fall under even more suspicion, didn't consider it at the time *newb scum*
Sorry to cyan for ignoring his cries of 'protect meeeeee'
eds - here is the Mafia Google Group, I've made it public for anyone curious.
Bat: Why did you make the decision to vig SP on n4 when there was still an active (known) information role?
By the time that night arrived I actually didn't want to vig him, but RandomActs had applied so much pressure to me I felt I couldn't go against the town's vote.
Originally I wanted to vig him that night because it seemed likely that he was a Mafia doctor and had saved rianalnn. All the signs were there. But then once he'd defended himself I found myself less certain. That and the possibility of NK-proof godfather (which had not initially occurred to me).
As it turned out there was a Mafia doctor. It just wasn't Silent Prophet.
As for our pseudo-Cop, I really didn't want him working on Silent Prophet. He needed to be scanning the lurkers, because there's no other way to catch Mafia lurkers. (Well OK, ideally you can lynch them for lurking, but not in this game.)
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<Limited Clan>
I can't help but feel that the town's victory is somewhat undeserved. Of the 5 mafia, 2 fell to crosskills, 1 was modkilled, and 1 was hit by a completely random investigation. Only one mafia member was actually lynched by the town. And kops was probably doing fine until his claim. With a better claim, he could've easily survived at least one more day. Unfortunately, "I don't know what my role does" doesn't inspire too much confidence on day five.
I didn't see a whole lot wrong until endgame, when I started feeling very strongly that you were scum due to some factual recall errors on your part, and a general feeling of survivalism, like you were willing to lynch anyone who wasn't you.
I was also a little suspicious of your Silent Bob claim, because I was really surprised that Jay and Silent Bob weren't masons. That made me suspicious that if I (Jay) were town, that Silent Bob might be scum with a great nameclaim. These suspicions were compounded by your request to delay claiming on account of your being Bob.
Turns out I was wrong, of course.
@Alx: I dunno. The mafia got unlucky with crossfire, but the town also got gimped by loran's killing spree on Night 0, losing a cop and a townie RafaelK. I think the town had too many back-ups, personally (I was even considering MMOD as possible scum simply because I couldn't believe we had a cop, a backup, and a gunsmith), but I wouldn't say we played badly, or at least not significantly worse than the mafia. Choosing to lynch SorryGuy over Mosschop was probably the town's shining moment as far as reasoning.
Edit:
Quote from bateleur »
And the game was ten parts lurking to one part analysis.
Agreed. Perhaps it's time to revisit the discussion of stricter enforcement for activity levels? This game seems to have been hurt by too many people signing up without the intention of being particularly active. You can only make so many replacements and modkills before the game starts to lose focus.
I can't help but feel that the town's victory is somewhat undeserved.
Unfortunately it's not possible for a Mafia game to be won by "none of the above". The Town were mostly terrible. The Mafia were mostly terrible. Kops survived almost to the end, but with the targeting being as random as it was it's difficult to give him much credit.
And the game was ten parts lurking to one part analysis.
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<Limited Clan>
Choosing to lynch SorryGuy over Mosschop was probably the town's shining moment as far as reasoning.
Yes, and it only took the combined role-info of three players (arimnaes RB, Mosschop counterclaim, Jobie "dangerous" result) to browbeat the rest of the town into making the correct decision!
Also, there was the rianalln lynch, which was in effect a one-man crusade by bateleur (I still don't understand btw why bat chose to crusade against him, but I can't argue with success).
I still don't understand btw why bat chose to crusade against him
It was actually something pretty fundamental. The reason I'm not saying is because after a few games of Mafia I've come to realise that publicising the reasons for plays is actually not good unless the Town needs to know. Of course, normally the Town does need to know in order to vote correctly. This game was one of those rare exceptions.
But seriously, it wasn't anything very clever. My main advantage was that I actually read the thread.
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<Limited Clan>
I was surprised Jobie was riding me to the end about the mason claim
I started laying a bit low after both my masons were killed, because I didn't want to draw enough attention to get NK'd, and risk releasing valuable information to the mafia/sk.
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/Official "White and Nerdy" Poster Boy of The Called\
After being screwed twice as a mason, in Douglas Adams I completely F'ed up and in Mech mafia on MTGN I was partnered with the SK, I'm very wary of masons, especially third masons.
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Quote from my pm to LJ for whichever night I killed you »
Well, at this point, I'm basically down to killing off one of the un-claimed (Cubus, Dagger, IC, MMoD--since SP may have Jobie protected, SP is already scheduled to die, and I don't forsee Bat killing me any time soon so he's essentially on my side) and had Ria come up town it would very easily have been IC because he's by far the highest on my scumdar... As it is, I'd rather not kill off he who may well be the last mafioso (since I don't want the town on an SK hunt just yet) so it's between the other three. Of them, MMoD expressed suspicion of me in that last day, and I don't want a repeat of the Alx incident, and so it's down to Dagger and Cubus, the former of whom I think is more likely to advocate my own lynch than the latter if it comes down to it.......
So, choice:
Kill Dagger
Just thought you'd be interested in the reasoning on that one
I just ended up being wrong about who the last mafioso was and I damn well should have killed IC... could have won me the game depending on who I got info on. *curses IC's overly scummy play*
If I had claimed LJ hinting that my role was protective in his return pms (for good judging anyway), does anybody think I would more likely have been believed? The main problem at that point was that I was already locked into the good/bad judge by my acronym, which was fine flavorfully, but I couldn't come up with a sensical non-investigative role to attach to the good judging except protective, which we'd already had like 5 of... The reason I couldn't have made it investigative was a) flavor issues and b) believable targets/results since I had no flavor to back it up.
@Bat: I don't fully understand what the tip off was in that post you linked to. I made it very clear that there was almost 0 connection between him and me (he definitely never voted for me) and I also specifically referenced how it made RA seem much better because of his non-affiliation. I don't exactly remember making that post, but I'm willing to bet that I was very careful in not letting anybody think I was "clearing" myself.
Oh, and if anybody was wondering, my first couple kills were basically random lurker kills because I was, at that point, very wary of an Axel-in-elegant style role getting me killed if I targeted a claimed power. Alx was actually a rage kill because I wasn't thinking very clearly at that point and I was rather angry at almost being "day killed" and auto-losing as SK.
So, now that it's over, what do you guys think of the Acronym plan?
I still like the theory of it, but the execution left a lot to be desired. (Though it looks like it may have been responsible for taking Kops out at the end.)
I’m not very fond of larger games. I’m not good at finding a balance between lurking and posting too much. This time I was usually posting too much and appeared scummy. The theories I proposed were feasible, I think, but not very plausible. The irony is: I played just badly enough to survive until the game thinned out. (Scum tend to keep scummy-looking townies alive.) As the ranks thinned I felt more in my element. It didn’t hurt that I felt pretty much cleared by arimneas and Jobie. It would have been better for the town, however, if a power role had survived instead of the only vanilla townie. I make no apologies for targeting loran/bateleur. I just don’t understand lack of restraint in vigging, especially after the results were turning out to be horrendous. As it turns out, the SK was more helpful to the town than our own vig. When I saw the character name was Angry hockey player, I thought it possible his role had a secret restriction that called for him to kill at every opportunity, out of rage perhaps. But apparently that was not the case, so I’m still confused by the choices made. I agree with Tregit – I think the acronym idea was crucial to the game. I think it did help us get Kops, but it also almost doomed MMoD. I think what spared him was the presence of a backup doc in the game. Without that, his backup cop claim would not have convinced anyone. I also agree with Alx that the town was lucky on this one. And personally, I can’t point to anything in my own play was commendable or even noteworthy.
Oh, one thing I found very interesting: When Kops falseclaimed his "judgment" role, someone mentioned thinking they remembered it from God Mafia. Thing is, there was no role ever revealed to that effect in God. However, what Kops claimed is almost exactly what I had been planning to falseclaim then, since my safe claim was Justitia.
Of course, what I had in mind was much more specific. A sort of gunsmith-vigilante: Target someone at night, and if they've killed anyone during the game, they die. Otherwise nothing happens. Never got to use it, of course, since the game ended before I ever had to claim.
@Bat: I don't fully understand what the tip off was in that post you linked to. I made it very clear that...
Exactly !
Why would a townie go to such trouble ?
I just don’t understand lack of restraint in vigging, especially after the results were turning out to be horrendous.
False logic there. There is no "trend" in vig results.
I do agree with your sentiment that overall the vig caused vast damage, but my own results were one vigged Godfather and one target vigged on town instructions.
So any "incompetence" arguments were misplaced. Arguing I was an SK suffered from the problem that there was quite clearly another SK. Now had you explicitly presented that yourself and tried to argue for it as plausible you might have got somewhere. As it was, you just came across as completely crazed, foaming at the mouth in your desire to attack me. Whatever alignment I am that's the wrong play.
I’m still confused by the choices made.
Loran16 was a little off his game I think.
Regarding the acronym plan - seemed mostly pointless to me. The effectiveness of roleclaims isn't much changed by whether they're claimed in advance. The Mafia are unlikely to go for "I am the Doc" either way, because they will always have to assume there's a real Doc who is still alive, etc.
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<Limited Clan>
False logic there. There is no "trend" in vig results.
True, but I wasn't speaking of trends. I was referring to learning from mistakes, and after seeing the results becoming a little more hockey-stick shy? At least becoming more selective.
I do agree with your sentiment that overall the vig caused vast damage, but my own results were one vigged Godfather and one target vigged on town instructions.
Yes, I was quite pleased with godfather kill. Had that occurred earlier in the game, my angst would have been greatly reduced, I'm sure. And true, the town shares the blame for the SP kill.
So any "incompetence" arguments were misplaced. Arguing I was an SK suffered from the problem that there was quite clearly another SK. Now had you explicitly presented that yourself and tried to argue for it as plausible you might have got somewhere. As it was, you just came across as completely crazed, foaming at the mouth in your desire to attack me. Whatever alignment I am that's the wrong play.
No, no - no arguments of "imcompetence" from me. And no crazed foaming at the mouth either. Frustration, yes. It's clear we have differing ideas on vig play/tactics. But as Uncle Billy said, "All's well that ends well," eh? Before the godfather kill, I didn't know if you were mafia or SK. And honestly, I didn't have the time or mental energy to devote to figuring out which. And yes, that's where my play was shoddy.
---
By the way, thanks to LJustus for an entertaining setup and expert modding. I especially appreciate you moving the game along when things bogged down.
Kops, on the other hand, had placed himself very high up my "probably SK" list with his big play in #1125. This is actually an excellent piece of pro-Town analysis and really helped us to win the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kops @Bat: I don't fully understand what the tip off was in that post you linked to. I made it very clear that...
Nope, just two different aspects of the same post.
As a Townie I'd have expected to see you present only the raw data with absolutely no spin and little to no commentary.
A Townie has no motivation to influence perceptions, therefore data is enough. A scum has no motivation other than to influence perceptions.
But, y'know, it's not like I caught you, so whilst there may have been clues at least they weren't big enough to lose you the game.
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<Limited Clan>
I motivated loran on night 0 and he vigged me. Of all the irony.
And to think that I motivated him because I figured if he was town then good, and if scum he was impulsive enough to "give himself away" through killing twice.
Between figuring only a scum would kill (let alone kill 2 people!) on night 0, and then watching loran tap-dance around the kills despite the fact they had the same modus operandi, I read the thread firmly believing that loran->bateleur was scum. Especially since bateleur kept on claiming kills on townies. I was totally shocked when bat died and came up town!
On the day rian was lynched, I PM'd LJ to say that I thought bat, kops and cubus were scum and that rian was SK or a mafia being bussed (I think that's what I said, he can correct me if I misremember).
lol......
Ummm yeah, first time being vig, can you tell?
N1, I originally targetted Chamber (i cant read chamber..and his gambits...well read magic mafia). Then i get a 2nd shot, and decide to use it on rafk (i cant beat him when he's scum). I plan to use the first post in the day to tell the motivator not to target me again.
What do ya know, bye bye cop and motivator.
Az was offed cuz i was 95%sure Treigit was scum, and thought az was scum, but couldnt outargue az. Metagaming for the lose.
I am still shocked Treigit was town. Seriously though, what was the point of anagraming/acronyming? I still think that was dumb as hell.
Sorry Bateleur btw, i kind of put you in a bad position
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Sorry Bateleur btw, i kind of put you in a bad position
Hey, no worries ! To start with, the Town won anyway.
Secondly, it's pretty interesting having to play from a position you wouldn't have put yourself into.
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<Limited Clan>
Hey, no worries ! To start with, the Town won anyway.
Secondly, it's pretty interesting having to play from a position you wouldn't have put yourself into.
Heh.....sigh, If you had been in the game, id have vigged you instead of rafk....and you end up replacing me. How annoying.
I can't remember my acronym, but i think mine was something like "People who have hockey sticks are fun!"
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
The point of the anagrams/acronyms was that it would theoretically lock the scums into one claim before they had sufficient info. It looks like it did infarct work in one instance. I think that the way we executed them there was too much flexibility and they were next to useless. I would still like to see them correctly pulled off in another game. (Actually while we were debating them I was so sure they were broken that I was trying to figure out the least clunky rule to ban them from future games.)
See Treigit, the problem is if the game setup is twisted so that scum have non scum sounding names, or even worse safe claims, then you've given no one but the scum any advantage....
THey're in no way broken, as niether town nor scum has incentive not to put useless ones like mine, and in more recent setups with safe-claims/names that arent scummy, or even no obvious theme, then it doesnt do anything.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
The point was never to catch them in the name claims, but in ability claims, which are much less frequently provided, and can be quite revealing late game.
Ideally of course no one would have any information out of this until the suspect reveals their claim.
Well, I still stand by my views that you should have been killed, Loran. You killed the doc, motivator, and cop, and by not proving my hiding ability, you pretty much got me lynched as well.
I've never seen you play so badly, man.
But Bat, you did well to avoid that fate - congratulations on an excellent game.
I just wanted to apologize for my lack of involvement. I replaced in because my predecesor was severly lacking in the posting department. I no sooner replaced then I hit kind of a rough spot. I didn't even visit the site and abandoned the games I was in. It detracted the fun level for everyone involved. For this, I apologize.
I was 50/50 on if you were scum, bat. I almost proteceted you in the chance that you weren't. I figured that the scum would assume I was protecting Jobie, so they wouldn't target him. I protected him just incase I was wrong. Boy, did my play suck this game.
Funny thing is...the only game that I played where I wasn't under suspiscion was when I was mafia. The damned SK got me because he was so sure I ws town.
Argh, I tried to play a different style of mafia with myself posting more in this game, with terrible results. Getting outed Day 1 as a mason is hardly what one considers good play. This is, however, the first time that I have been NK'd Night 1, so it was an different experience. I was kind of surprised to find out that the mafia had done it, I was pretty sure that the SK would have done it as they have more motivation to remove confirmed townies ASAP.
I am glad that the breadcumb I left after I claimed helped out IC in the end. I was surprised that someone else didn't pick it up as it was when I was under a good amount of heat and I thought that the wording was quite tortured throughout the post to make it work.
It would have been hilarious if IC had used it to counter-claim a mafioso trying the 3rd mason gambit.
I was really disappointed to have died N0. I don't think games should even have kills on N0, heh. It seems like a missed a great game, and I haven't played as scum in awhile(24 mafia doesn't really count, I replaced into a position where the town had basically cost itself the game already).
Seconded. It's never fun for those killed and doesn't add much to the game's strategy.
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<Limited Clan>
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Between this and Stereotype Mafia I'm beginning to think you misread me fairly consistently !
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<Limited Clan>
Kops, on the other hand, had placed himself very high up my "probably SK" list with his big play in #1125. This is actually an excellent piece of pro-Town analysis and really helped us to win the game. Unfortunately the wording made me instantly suspicious. "The only known scum he ever voted for..." sounds a lot like he's trying to associate himself with this newly formed list of probable townies.
The player who really confused me was RandomActs. It's such a good thing he had a "not dangerous" attached to him, because aside from that he was looking sooo much like scum. Very weird play. He was at the top of my SK list above Kops !
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<Limited Clan>
I can understand doing that if you didn't have a cop left... but it seems to me a much lower-risk plan to have jobie investigate him instead. Double so since you lynched the godfather that day and could thus be reasonably sure that a "not dangerous" result actually means not-dangerous.
Obviously you couldn't explain why you were leaving SP alive going into the night... but I'd have strongly considered calling an audible based on the result of the Rian lynch.
Mafia Stats
This wasn't much fun from my end. Slow, + robbed at every turn. Even with an idiot vig + multiple town modkills, it didn't matter.
/bitter
The only thing I would have done differently is No-Kill Night 1 so loran's kill would fall under even more suspicion, didn't consider it at the time *newb scum*
Sorry to cyan for ignoring his cries of 'protect meeeeee'
eds - here is the Mafia Google Group, I've made it public for anyone curious.
By the time that night arrived I actually didn't want to vig him, but RandomActs had applied so much pressure to me I felt I couldn't go against the town's vote.
Originally I wanted to vig him that night because it seemed likely that he was a Mafia doctor and had saved rianalnn. All the signs were there. But then once he'd defended himself I found myself less certain. That and the possibility of NK-proof godfather (which had not initially occurred to me).
As it turned out there was a Mafia doctor. It just wasn't Silent Prophet.
As for our pseudo-Cop, I really didn't want him working on Silent Prophet. He needed to be scanning the lurkers, because there's no other way to catch Mafia lurkers. (Well OK, ideally you can lynch them for lurking, but not in this game.)
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<Limited Clan>
I was also a little suspicious of your Silent Bob claim, because I was really surprised that Jay and Silent Bob weren't masons. That made me suspicious that if I (Jay) were town, that Silent Bob might be scum with a great nameclaim. These suspicions were compounded by your request to delay claiming on account of your being Bob.
Turns out I was wrong, of course.
@Alx: I dunno. The mafia got unlucky with crossfire, but the town also got gimped by loran's killing spree on Night 0, losing a cop and a townie RafaelK. I think the town had too many back-ups, personally (I was even considering MMOD as possible scum simply because I couldn't believe we had a cop, a backup, and a gunsmith), but I wouldn't say we played badly, or at least not significantly worse than the mafia. Choosing to lynch SorryGuy over Mosschop was probably the town's shining moment as far as reasoning.
Edit:
Agreed. Perhaps it's time to revisit the discussion of stricter enforcement for activity levels? This game seems to have been hurt by too many people signing up without the intention of being particularly active. You can only make so many replacements and modkills before the game starts to lose focus.
Unfortunately it's not possible for a Mafia game to be won by "none of the above". The Town were mostly terrible. The Mafia were mostly terrible. Kops survived almost to the end, but with the targeting being as random as it was it's difficult to give him much credit.
And the game was ten parts lurking to one part analysis.
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<Limited Clan>
Yes, and it only took the combined role-info of three players (arimnaes RB, Mosschop counterclaim, Jobie "dangerous" result) to browbeat the rest of the town into making the correct decision!
Also, there was the rianalln lynch, which was in effect a one-man crusade by bateleur (I still don't understand btw why bat chose to crusade against him, but I can't argue with success).
It was actually something pretty fundamental. The reason I'm not saying is because after a few games of Mafia I've come to realise that publicising the reasons for plays is actually not good unless the Town needs to know. Of course, normally the Town does need to know in order to vote correctly. This game was one of those rare exceptions.
But seriously, it wasn't anything very clever. My main advantage was that I actually read the thread.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
I was surprised Jobie was riding me to the end about the mason claim
I started laying a bit low after both my masons were killed, because I didn't want to draw enough attention to get NK'd, and risk releasing valuable information to the mafia/sk.
/Official "White and Nerdy" Poster Boy of The Called\
Good Movie Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Mortal Kombat Mafia - Mafia - Lynched - Loss
Star Wars Mafia II - Townie - Exploded - Loss
Newbie Mafia 11 - Townie - Survived - Loss
Don't Fear the Reaper Mafia - Solo Mafia after day 1 - Survived - Win
Unluckyville Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
View Askew Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
I just ended up being wrong about who the last mafioso was and I damn well should have killed IC... could have won me the game depending on who I got info on. *curses IC's overly scummy play*
If I had claimed LJ hinting that my role was protective in his return pms (for good judging anyway), does anybody think I would more likely have been believed? The main problem at that point was that I was already locked into the good/bad judge by my acronym, which was fine flavorfully, but I couldn't come up with a sensical non-investigative role to attach to the good judging except protective, which we'd already had like 5 of... The reason I couldn't have made it investigative was a) flavor issues and b) believable targets/results since I had no flavor to back it up.
@Bat: I don't fully understand what the tip off was in that post you linked to. I made it very clear that there was almost 0 connection between him and me (he definitely never voted for me) and I also specifically referenced how it made RA seem much better because of his non-affiliation. I don't exactly remember making that post, but I'm willing to bet that I was very careful in not letting anybody think I was "clearing" myself.
Oh, and if anybody was wondering, my first couple kills were basically random lurker kills because I was, at that point, very wary of an Axel-in-elegant style role getting me killed if I targeted a claimed power. Alx was actually a rage kill because I wasn't thinking very clearly at that point and I was rather angry at almost being "day killed" and auto-losing as SK.
I still like the theory of it, but the execution left a lot to be desired. (Though it looks like it may have been responsible for taking Kops out at the end.)
I make no apologies for targeting loran/bateleur. I just don’t understand lack of restraint in vigging, especially after the results were turning out to be horrendous. As it turns out, the SK was more helpful to the town than our own vig. When I saw the character name was Angry hockey player, I thought it possible his role had a secret restriction that called for him to kill at every opportunity, out of rage perhaps. But apparently that was not the case, so I’m still confused by the choices made.
I agree with Tregit – I think the acronym idea was crucial to the game. I think it did help us get Kops, but it also almost doomed MMoD. I think what spared him was the presence of a backup doc in the game. Without that, his backup cop claim would not have convinced anyone.
I also agree with Alx that the town was lucky on this one. And personally, I can’t point to anything in my own play was commendable or even noteworthy.
Of course, what I had in mind was much more specific. A sort of gunsmith-vigilante: Target someone at night, and if they've killed anyone during the game, they die. Otherwise nothing happens. Never got to use it, of course, since the game ended before I ever had to claim.
Exactly !
Why would a townie go to such trouble ?
False logic there. There is no "trend" in vig results.
I do agree with your sentiment that overall the vig caused vast damage, but my own results were one vigged Godfather and one target vigged on town instructions.
So any "incompetence" arguments were misplaced. Arguing I was an SK suffered from the problem that there was quite clearly another SK. Now had you explicitly presented that yourself and tried to argue for it as plausible you might have got somewhere. As it was, you just came across as completely crazed, foaming at the mouth in your desire to attack me. Whatever alignment I am that's the wrong play.
Loran16 was a little off his game I think.
Regarding the acronym plan - seemed mostly pointless to me. The effectiveness of roleclaims isn't much changed by whether they're claimed in advance. The Mafia are unlikely to go for "I am the Doc" either way, because they will always have to assume there's a real Doc who is still alive, etc.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Yes, I was quite pleased with godfather kill. Had that occurred earlier in the game, my angst would have been greatly reduced, I'm sure. And true, the town shares the blame for the SP kill.
No, no - no arguments of "imcompetence" from me. And no crazed foaming at the mouth either. Frustration, yes. It's clear we have differing ideas on vig play/tactics. But as Uncle Billy said, "All's well that ends well," eh? Before the godfather kill, I didn't know if you were mafia or SK. And honestly, I didn't have the time or mental energy to devote to figuring out which. And yes, that's where my play was shoddy.
---
By the way, thanks to LJustus for an entertaining setup and expert modding. I especially appreciate you moving the game along when things bogged down.
Contradictory?
Nope, just two different aspects of the same post.
As a Townie I'd have expected to see you present only the raw data with absolutely no spin and little to no commentary.
A Townie has no motivation to influence perceptions, therefore data is enough. A scum has no motivation other than to influence perceptions.
But, y'know, it's not like I caught you, so whilst there may have been clues at least they weren't big enough to lose you the game.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
lol......
Ummm yeah, first time being vig, can you tell?
N1, I originally targetted Chamber (i cant read chamber..and his gambits...well read magic mafia). Then i get a 2nd shot, and decide to use it on rafk (i cant beat him when he's scum). I plan to use the first post in the day to tell the motivator not to target me again.
What do ya know, bye bye cop and motivator.
Az was offed cuz i was 95%sure Treigit was scum, and thought az was scum, but couldnt outargue az. Metagaming for the lose.
I am still shocked Treigit was town. Seriously though, what was the point of anagraming/acronyming? I still think that was dumb as hell.
Sorry Bateleur btw, i kind of put you in a bad position
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Hey, no worries ! To start with, the Town won anyway.
Secondly, it's pretty interesting having to play from a position you wouldn't have put yourself into.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Heh.....sigh, If you had been in the game, id have vigged you instead of rafk....and you end up replacing me. How annoying.
I can't remember my acronym, but i think mine was something like "People who have hockey sticks are fun!"
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
THey're in no way broken, as niether town nor scum has incentive not to put useless ones like mine, and in more recent setups with safe-claims/names that arent scummy, or even no obvious theme, then it doesnt do anything.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Ideally of course no one would have any information out of this until the suspect reveals their claim.
I've never seen you play so badly, man.
But Bat, you did well to avoid that fate - congratulations on an excellent game.
I was 50/50 on if you were scum, bat. I almost proteceted you in the chance that you weren't. I figured that the scum would assume I was protecting Jobie, so they wouldn't target him. I protected him just incase I was wrong. Boy, did my play suck this game.
Funny thing is...the only game that I played where I wasn't under suspiscion was when I was mafia. The damned SK got me because he was so sure I ws town.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
I am glad that the breadcumb I left after I claimed helped out IC in the end. I was surprised that someone else didn't pick it up as it was when I was under a good amount of heat and I thought that the wording was quite tortured throughout the post to make it work.
It would have been hilarious if IC had used it to counter-claim a mafioso trying the 3rd mason gambit.
/Official "White and Nerdy" Poster Boy of The Called\
Good Movie Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Mortal Kombat Mafia - Mafia - Lynched - Loss
Star Wars Mafia II - Townie - Exploded - Loss
Newbie Mafia 11 - Townie - Survived - Loss
Don't Fear the Reaper Mafia - Solo Mafia after day 1 - Survived - Win
Unluckyville Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
View Askew Mafia - Townie - Survived - Win
Seconded. It's never fun for those killed and doesn't add much to the game's strategy.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>