If you were indeed the second vote, then that's fair enough, I remove my statement that you were being opportunistic. I thought you were the 4th vote on him.
I still find your response to CPE's initial query completely lacking, however.
WTH is this 'If you were indeed' stuff? It's a matter of history: read the thread or look at the vote count if you want proof.
This screams of backpedaling to me, like you're trying to get out of this unscathed and still trying to make me look bad. You've already convinced yourself, and now you're trying to invent reasons that I'm acting scummy.
What more of a response do you need? If you want me to respond to something, ask questions.
If you're admitting that your original reason is wrong, then why are you still voting me?
Because you don't want to admit you're wrong, you're already in your "pitbull mode"; You've convinced yourself I'm scum/an easy lynch, and arn't going to back down until I die or the town tears you apart for it.
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Were you Town or Scum? And what makes you believe that is more of a scum-tell than a town-tell or no-tell?
depends if I believe you actually skipped it. If you did, then its a skimming tell which means spend more time on the game, and if you did read it, then its a scum tell. Out of the scenario Scum/Skimmar, I think a vote is worthy.
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<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
depends if I believe you actually skipped it. If you did, then its a skimming tell which means spend more time on the game, and if you did read it, then its a scum tell. Out of the scenario Scum/Skimmar, I think a vote is worthy.
What are your opinions on Tilde, Niv, and Cyan?
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I'll also be keeping an eye on those 4 who started this wagon on me
(Alx2, WelloflostGnomes, Disrupt Your Hymn, and RafaelK)
You do that.
While you're doing that, it might be nice for you to explain how it works that you're suspicious of Niv Mizzet AND believe he made himself a target for the mafia through what he did.
Because you didn't explain that, and it's the basis of my vote.
Your #155 appears to be extremely revisionist, since it sure as hell doesn't seem to be what you were saying the first time. And it still doesn't explain why you'd say that Niv had made himself a target but then go ahead and FOS him.
Not big on your belated answer to Kenji's 152 either.
And at blatant speculation that Niv is mafia GF. Can we at least wait until we get a town investigation on him before you try and explain it away that way?
(And FWIW, much as I doubt Niv is any sort of GF, I like andelijah's idea that Tilde and Niv could be scum together and TIlde is gambitting by selling out his own GF on day 1! It's creative, anyway.)
Also: at the inevitable "oh my god! 4 votes! too fast!" reaction that accompanies every single bandwagon on MTGS that gets to 3 or 4 votes. It's fine to disagree with the bandwagon, but that "too fast" excuse is the refuge of people who don't have better reasons to disagreee with the bandwagon.
Also- I think Kenji was being a sarcastic devil's advocate with the idea of actually following Tilde's idea. Perhaps I misread. It wouldn't be the first time.
Is that directed to me? Like I said, not only do I not like the speed at which the wagon grew, or the sheer bandwagonry of some of the votes, but, I think the basis of the wagon itself is faulty. I really think that most of Tilde's tells are newb tells, not newb scum tells.
If I can get away with referring to a game in progress (referring only to matters already public), Stargate SG-1 mafia over on mafiascum at the moment. Day 1, a newbie called johhan was lynched and came up scum. People did argue the wagon was too fast, and that johhan was just a newbie. But he was lynched and came up scum.
Newbs can be scum. News at 11.
If Tilde can persuade me that his statement in that original post was honest, then I unvote him. The far-fetched theory that Niv is a mafia godfather does actually strike me as more "silly newbie"- newbie scum or newbie town, either might fail to realise how unlikely it is- but the thing I value most in reading newbies is how honest and consistent they seem. Tilde's reaction to Niv doesn't seem honest. It seems to me like a newbie scum pouncing on the first unusual thing they see and calling it a scum tell, being overeager to cause a mislynch.
You do know that Tilde is only one vote away from lynch? If any newb decides to get gung-ho and hammer before he can claim, I can assure you that you'll be the first to die tomorrow.
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Obviously newb can be scum, no one is saying otherwise. But in this instance, I think his tells are newb tells, not newb scum tells.
I'd like an explanation on the difference, please.
I'm in the aforementioned SG-1 with RafK over on 'Scum. I'm in a game with you where I'm sure you can recall a newbie scum blowing up on day one. I'm not giving people free passes any more. You play scummy - you get my vote.
EBOWDP: Seriously, the fact that Tilde is one vote shy of being lynched without even a hint of someone saying 'please claim'.
Speaking of people being eager to cause a mislynch, WoD's vote there was not only scummy in and of itself, but also wholly unnecessary, and again mentions nothing regarding Tilde claiming.
You're right, they did. I wasn't really suspicious of them in regards to this wagon anyway, but it's good to have it on record that they at least approached the wagon with legitimacy.
Good move to unvote, at least. Are we going to force a claim then? I don't necessarily think that we need to move this forcefully, but if the majority says so, let's hear it.
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
I feel guilty that I am still not up to speed on this. Attention divided and all that. In any event, I'm happy to wait and see what ~Tilde~ says fisrt.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Also don't like that WoLG conviently overlooked the relevant post.
"Hey guys! Me too!" Again, someone trying to make me look bad without actually paying attention to what was going on.
You realize that his post wasn't "relevant" at the time.
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bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent
It didn't actually become the "matter at hand" until after RafK's, and then my, post. Also, it isn't "convenient" for me to skip over a post that wasn't directed at me. Say, if a cop claimed that I was scum, and I "skipped over" that post, THEN it would have been convenient, or if someone attacked me, and I skipped over it, it would be convenient.
Not noticing a post, or not having a chance to read it, then agreeing with a point and going back and finding additional things wrong with it is far from "convenient" for me.
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I've been playing for a long time but I wouldn't say I'm "experienced" just not a newbie.
They'd call you scum @ Misetings for saying that.
BTW: I think it's interesting how little ~ has posted since all this pressure pilled up on him, and I hope he appears sometime today with some kind of explination.
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Fine, since I'm at lynch -2 I'll go ahead and claim..
I'm one of the Twin Warriors (Town Mason) and while my partner wanted to start the day with claiming, I convinced him not to until there was a need to. Brother? Would you like to confirm this?
It's probably safer to say I was being contrary for kicks than playing true Devil's Advocate.
May I ask why? You were going on the idea for multiple posts that lynching Niv would be a good idea. While it may have generated some discussion, there is no pro-town behavior in lynching a person on no evidence, and your personal enjoyment is not quite a satisfactory reason.
I think looking at WoLG is a great idea now, his responses continue to be unsatisfying.
Quote from Cyan »
If you were indeed the second vote, then that's fair enough, I remove my statement that you were being opportunistic. I thought you were the 4th vote on him.
So you've agreed it wasn't opportunistic, but you're still suspicious of him? I can't imagine that you've never gone back and reread things after someone pointed it out, and found them much worse the second time than the first time, when you probably skimmed over it. Besides, if you want to vote someone for being opportunistic, vote Alx. He was the 4th vote, and his reasoning is very much lacking.
Quote from Alx2 »
Axelrod will have to wait, for now is the time to pound an obscure punctuation mark into the ground. Unvote, vote Tilde
"Hey guys! Me too!" Again, someone trying to make me look bad without actually paying attention to what was going on.
You realize that his post wasn't "relevant" at the time. It didn't actually become the "matter at hand" until after RafK's, and then my, post. Also, it isn't "convenient" for me to skip over a post that wasn't directed at me. Say, if a cop claimed that I was scum, and I "skipped over" that post, THEN it would have been convenient, or if someone attacked me, and I skipped over it, it would be convenient.
Not noticing a post, or not having a chance to read it, then agreeing with a point and going back and finding additional things wrong with it is far from "convenient" for me.
You know perfectly well what I mean by relevant. It pertains to the matter we're currently discussing. I never claimed that at the time you would have found it relevant to anything. I don't know about you, but I tend to parse the vast majority of posts as I read. If your reading skills are similar, I think it is very suspicious that the one post you missed would be the one we're now calling you out for. That is convenient. As to Andelijah's question about not noticing the relevancy of a post until the someone else points it out, sure, I've done that plenty, and would have accepted it had WoLG said that, this just seems so much less likely, and like he's trying to cover his tracks.
I think it's inevitable that we're going to see a one man mason gambit, but I don't think that's today, and would like the other twin to stay under.
Hi you just almost killed him, he claims something that CAN be confirmed, and you let that slip away? No... If you ACTUALLY thought he was scum, you would ask for the partner to come out. A 1 sided mason is a great scum claim you know.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
So, first Cyan acts all protective and fuzzy toward Tilde, and you openly agree with him, then you lament at how agressive Cyan is? Insincere.
Vote Ged.
At the time Cyan made the first post, Tilde hadn't made his absurd godfather theory post which pushed me to vote him. At the time I agreed that Tilde seemed more newbie than scummy.
Now I think Cyan is being overly aggressive on a completely different matter: WolG.
Several hundred posts allow people to change their opinions. So does completely changing the subject.
Actually, I hate to admit it, but CPE is right. Can anyone give a good reason why his partner SHOULDN'T come out, other than the fact that it narrows down the field of possible power roles for the mafia to NK?
There is no reason whatsoever for the partner to come out. If the partner gets NKed, Tilde is confirmed. If Tilde dies and is revealed as a mason and the partner claims and isn't counterclaimed..he is confirmed. If he is counterclaimed, we're guaranteed to find a scum between the two of them. Clearly it's better for the partner to remain hidden.
WoD really seems like scum here to me. Unvote, Vote WoD
You know perfectly well what I mean by relevant. It pertains to the matter we're currently discussing. I never claimed that at the time you would have found it relevant to anything.
I never claimed to skim over or miss any of the posts we're curently discussing though. I said that for sure I missed one post in my initial read, or hadn't got to that post yet by the time I posted, and when I noticed it, I made a comment on it and voted the player that made it.
I don't know about you, but I tend to parse the vast majority of posts as I read. If your reading skills are similar, I think it is very suspicious that the one post you missed would be the one we're now calling you out for. That is convenient.
Quick aside: Would this even be an issue if I would have said "Oh, I missed that post, I agree, and he's fishing too! Vote!"?
Should I have to worry that every time I miss a post, and then see it later, agree to its scummyness, and add content then vote, that I'm going to be voted? No. I shouldn't. And people shouldn't be lynched for having a 9 year old write their PM.
As to Andelijah's question about not noticing the relevancy of a post until the someone else points it out, sure, I've done that plenty, and would have accepted it had WoLG said that, this just seems so much less likely, and like he's trying to cover his tracks.
But I have said that, repeatedly. How am I trying to cover my tracks?
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Actually, I hate to admit it, but CPE is right. Can anyone give a good reason why his partner SHOULDN'T come out, other than the fact that it narrows down the field of possible power roles for the mafia to NK?
The bolded is a sufficient reason, but there's one more: it narrows down the field of possible players for the mafia to push suspicion on. Last thing mafia want to do is to attack a confirmed(confirmable) townie. They'd rather know who the other mason is right now, so they don't lose townie points attacking him later.
Also, it's not like we can't force the partner at a later time. The option is always open. No
There is no reason whatsoever for the partner to come out. If the partner gets NKed, Tilde is confirmed. If Tilde dies and is revealed as a mason and the partner claims and isn't counterclaimed..he is confirmed. If he is counterclaimed, we're guaranteed to find a scum between the two of them. Clearly it's better for the partner to remain hidden.
WoD really seems like scum here to me. Unvote, Vote WoD
And if tilde is scum, we give him a free ride for a few days untill a scum actually see's it might be worthy to keep another scum along and they win? No... Grak is right on his assessment that all Masons do is eat up nightkills, we need to either confirm / kill him now. Him bieng 1 mason means NOTHING.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
EBWODP: Alx... ya umm confirmed townie > possible power role when your nightkilling, you dont want any confirmeds, it hurts you later on. That arguement is BS.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
WoLG- Could you clarify as I'm now confused. Did you A) not see ~'s post on your first read, and upon noticing it see how inheirently scummy it was, or B) see said post, but think nothing of it originally, and upon seeing CPE's analysis of same realize it's scummy implications?
ALX- I'd like to point out an error in your logic. There is nothing inherently scummy about townies attacking other townies. Because there's nothing to differentiate their alignment other than posts, that's unlikely to be a major motivating factor for the scum. (Eliminating confirmable roles on the other hand is motivation.)
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WTH is this 'If you were indeed' stuff? It's a matter of history: read the thread or look at the vote count if you want proof.
This screams of backpedaling to me, like you're trying to get out of this unscathed and still trying to make me look bad. You've already convinced yourself, and now you're trying to invent reasons that I'm acting scummy.
What more of a response do you need? If you want me to respond to something, ask questions.
If you're admitting that your original reason is wrong, then why are you still voting me?
Because you don't want to admit you're wrong, you're already in your "pitbull mode"; You've convinced yourself I'm scum/an easy lynch, and arn't going to back down until I die or the town tears you apart for it.
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Were you Town or Scum? And what makes you believe that is more of a scum-tell than a town-tell or no-tell?
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What are your opinions on Tilde, Niv, and Cyan?
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Niv is most likely town.
~: I dont know but at this rate will die from having bad logic. If scum, niv is town. if town niv is not affected either way.
"i'm ready to remove my random vote. unvote"
You do that.
While you're doing that, it might be nice for you to explain how it works that you're suspicious of Niv Mizzet AND believe he made himself a target for the mafia through what he did.
Because you didn't explain that, and it's the basis of my vote.
Your #155 appears to be extremely revisionist, since it sure as hell doesn't seem to be what you were saying the first time. And it still doesn't explain why you'd say that Niv had made himself a target but then go ahead and FOS him.
Not big on your belated answer to Kenji's 152 either.
And at blatant speculation that Niv is mafia GF. Can we at least wait until we get a town investigation on him before you try and explain it away that way?
(And FWIW, much as I doubt Niv is any sort of GF, I like andelijah's idea that Tilde and Niv could be scum together and TIlde is gambitting by selling out his own GF on day 1! It's creative, anyway.)
Also: at the inevitable "oh my god! 4 votes! too fast!" reaction that accompanies every single bandwagon on MTGS that gets to 3 or 4 votes. It's fine to disagree with the bandwagon, but that "too fast" excuse is the refuge of people who don't have better reasons to disagreee with the bandwagon.
Also- I think Kenji was being a sarcastic devil's advocate with the idea of actually following Tilde's idea. Perhaps I misread. It wouldn't be the first time.
Tilde - 9 (RafaelK, WellOfLostGnomes, Disrupt_Your_Hymn, Alx2, Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Ged, Kenji, Wuffles_II, andelijah)
Kenji - 2 (AlphaInsidious, Treigit)
WellOfLostGnomes - 2 (Cyan, creampuffeater)
Niv-Mizzet the Firemind - 1 (Tilde)
RafaelK - 1 (Wrath_of_DoG)
Agreed. I know how it feels to be a misguided town (see God Mafia RE: me). I see no reason to rush a wagon on Tilde like this. It's really unsettling
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Newbs can be scum. News at 11.
If Tilde can persuade me that his statement in that original post was honest, then I unvote him. The far-fetched theory that Niv is a mafia godfather does actually strike me as more "silly newbie"- newbie scum or newbie town, either might fail to realise how unlikely it is- but the thing I value most in reading newbies is how honest and consistent they seem. Tilde's reaction to Niv doesn't seem honest. It seems to me like a newbie scum pouncing on the first unusual thing they see and calling it a scum tell, being overeager to cause a mislynch.
That being said, I think its rather unlikely, but based on the complete lack of logic he's been showing, Unvote, Vote ~.
You do know that Tilde is only one vote away from lynch? If any newb decides to get gung-ho and hammer before he can claim, I can assure you that you'll be the first to die tomorrow.
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I'd like an explanation on the difference, please.
I'm in the aforementioned SG-1 with RafK over on 'Scum. I'm in a game with you where I'm sure you can recall a newbie scum blowing up on day one. I'm not giving people free passes any more. You play scummy - you get my vote.
Waiting on a claim from Tilde.
Did WoD just put him at -1??
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Speaking of people being eager to cause a mislynch, WoD's vote there was not only scummy in and of itself, but also wholly unnecessary, and again mentions nothing regarding Tilde claiming.
Unvote to prevent the ninja.
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-Alpha
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"Hey guys! Me too!" Again, someone trying to make me look bad without actually paying attention to what was going on.
You realize that his post wasn't "relevant" at the time. It didn't actually become the "matter at hand" until after RafK's, and then my, post. Also, it isn't "convenient" for me to skip over a post that wasn't directed at me. Say, if a cop claimed that I was scum, and I "skipped over" that post, THEN it would have been convenient, or if someone attacked me, and I skipped over it, it would be convenient.
Not noticing a post, or not having a chance to read it, then agreeing with a point and going back and finding additional things wrong with it is far from "convenient" for me.
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They'd call you scum @ Misetings for saying that.
BTW: I think it's interesting how little ~ has posted since all this pressure pilled up on him, and I hope he appears sometime today with some kind of explination.
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I'm one of the Twin Warriors (Town Mason) and while my partner wanted to start the day with claiming, I convinced him not to until there was a need to. Brother? Would you like to confirm this?
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
May I ask why? You were going on the idea for multiple posts that lynching Niv would be a good idea. While it may have generated some discussion, there is no pro-town behavior in lynching a person on no evidence, and your personal enjoyment is not quite a satisfactory reason.
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I think looking at WoLG is a great idea now, his responses continue to be unsatisfying.
So you've agreed it wasn't opportunistic, but you're still suspicious of him? I can't imagine that you've never gone back and reread things after someone pointed it out, and found them much worse the second time than the first time, when you probably skimmed over it. Besides, if you want to vote someone for being opportunistic, vote Alx. He was the 4th vote, and his reasoning is very much lacking.
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For not reading my posts while continuing to say my responses are "lacking" without saying WHY they are lacking.
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You know perfectly well what I mean by relevant. It pertains to the matter we're currently discussing. I never claimed that at the time you would have found it relevant to anything. I don't know about you, but I tend to parse the vast majority of posts as I read. If your reading skills are similar, I think it is very suspicious that the one post you missed would be the one we're now calling you out for. That is convenient. As to Andelijah's question about not noticing the relevancy of a post until the someone else points it out, sure, I've done that plenty, and would have accepted it had WoLG said that, this just seems so much less likely, and like he's trying to cover his tracks.
I think it's inevitable that we're going to see a one man mason gambit, but I don't think that's today, and would like the other twin to stay under.
So, first Cyan acts all protective and fuzzy toward Tilde, and you openly agree with him, then you lament at how agressive Cyan is? Insincere.
Vote Ged.
holy ****, I did put him at -1.
I honestly thought there were 24 players in the game, and was therefore only voting with the intent to put him at -3.
That being said, Unvote.
Tilde - 4 (RafaelK, Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Kenji, Wuffles_II)
Kenji - 2 (AlphaInsidious, Treigit)
WellOfLostGnomes - 2 (Cyan, creampuffeater)
Cyan - 1 (WellOfLostGnomes)
Ged - 1 (Alx2)
Niv-Mizzet the Firemind - 1 (Tilde)
At the time Cyan made the first post, Tilde hadn't made his absurd godfather theory post which pushed me to vote him. At the time I agreed that Tilde seemed more newbie than scummy.
Now I think Cyan is being overly aggressive on a completely different matter: WolG.
Several hundred posts allow people to change their opinions. So does completely changing the subject.
WoD really seems like scum here to me. Unvote, Vote WoD
I never claimed to skim over or miss any of the posts we're curently discussing though. I said that for sure I missed one post in my initial read, or hadn't got to that post yet by the time I posted, and when I noticed it, I made a comment on it and voted the player that made it.
Quick aside: Would this even be an issue if I would have said "Oh, I missed that post, I agree, and he's fishing too! Vote!"?
Should I have to worry that every time I miss a post, and then see it later, agree to its scummyness, and add content then vote, that I'm going to be voted? No. I shouldn't. And people shouldn't be lynched for having a 9 year old write their PM.
But I have said that, repeatedly. How am I trying to cover my tracks?
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The bolded is a sufficient reason, but there's one more: it narrows down the field of possible players for the mafia to push suspicion on. Last thing mafia want to do is to attack a confirmed(confirmable) townie. They'd rather know who the other mason is right now, so they don't lose townie points attacking him later.
Also, it's not like we can't force the partner at a later time. The option is always open. No
ALX- I'd like to point out an error in your logic. There is nothing inherently scummy about townies attacking other townies. Because there's nothing to differentiate their alignment other than posts, that's unlikely to be a major motivating factor for the scum. (Eliminating confirmable roles on the other hand is motivation.)