Alright! Lovely pages to come home too! Firstly, I have been asked not to post while under the influence of alcohol, but I haven't posted in awhile so I'll be brief and concise in my post.
76: I'd rather keep the secret as hidden as it already is, or as in plain sight as it already is. Curiosity usually can be mistaken as fishing, so please don't.
77: Good posting DYH. This stood out to me. Pwned.
141: Almost 100 posts later, still going strong. Townie points for DYH.
mostly for the iLord thing, I'm playing in newb mafia with him and i'm guessing he's making a ton of newb mistakes. I'm pretty sure this is the case actually. He is a newb guys.
And...i think thats all for now. I'll keep reading as we go along of course.
And people were getting upset someone said the wagon was growing quickly. IT IS, and I think you should slow down, because at this rate iLord will be at -1 when everybody checks in.
Wrong responce, just cause its day one DOES NOT mean nobody should actually play the game. Unvote, Vote Redington.
Well, it was actually me commenting on the wagon moving fast, and I was overreacting, but with that unnofficial postcount, we actually could have a rather swift Day 1. It's not a bad thing, just funny how it all went so quickly.
I also agree, Redington is undermining the ability to play the game so early. With the ideas posted by both creampuff and Tilde, I must say VOTE Redington.
It's funny, because he says it's day one and there is really nothing to take into account, but still hops onto the bandwagon for iLord like it's nothing. Hmm, I didn't see any real analysis on his vote, other than "This guy looks scummy." I can assume he is just copy/paste previous reasons for voting to get his own reasoning. Seriously though, this smells like scum.
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Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
Of course it doesn't mean that nobody should play day one. But so far from what I see is that iLord has either 1)made a mistake in taking the approach that he did and has been called out on it or 2) really is scum and trying to cover up his mistake by reasoning his way out of it. Either way, there is something a little fishy about him; enough to get at eight votes, which is still not a majority. That boils down to basically we don't have exactly enough evidence to make a solid lynch on iLord's case until proven otherwise.
As for Tanarin, what's the possibility of having power roles disclosing subtle hints that the scum would not pick up? What would be the risk to that?
Well, it was actually me commenting on the wagon moving fast, and I was overreacting, but with that unnofficial postcount, we actually could have a rather swift Day 1. It's not a bad thing, just funny how it all went so quickly.
Although I think long day 1s are bad, I consider long as 2+ weeks, not 2 days. Theres a difference, BIG difference. Also, even if he does get to -1, it will stall out. Bigtime, how many games have you been in? (I just like to know this stuff)
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
Good analysis by DYH, yes. But good analysis doesn't make someone more townie until it bags a scum. If you don't think DYH would also play like this as Mafia you're in for a nasty shock.
Here are my summary impressions of the last six pages:
FoS: iLord - I found nothing scummy at all in the vote he was initially attacked for, but his "I did it on purpose" defence was a clear lie.
FoS: tanarin - Chatting about NKs is fine. Suggesting that power roles "drop hints" is not fine.
FoS: Redington - Just think about that "scum would not pick up". Do they have different eyes from the rest of us? Also you should bear in mind that there was a night zero. This day one is far from pointless. I expect it to be both long and useful.
Vote: BigTime - It's hard, isn't it, pretending to be a townie? You try to claim a few town points and get told off for it. Even namechecking people doesn't seem to be helping you to blend in.
Finally a quick request to both Niv and AK: The two of you appear to have the same posting restriction. Please could you each comment individually on whether you have any reason (besides conjecture) to believe each other's posting restriction? And further to that, did you have reason to expect each other's existence prior to gamestart?
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I just spent far too long trying to parse Niv's posts for subliminal messages, and decided that was totally not worth the effort.
Whether or not it's worth the effort, I would suggest that anyone who FOUND something in Niv and AK's posting is probably better off not saying at this point.
iLord (in #79) is going into way too much WIFOM for my liking to explain a vote made inside the first 2 pages of a large game.
Quote from DYH »
FYI - not buying this for one second. You seem to be piece-mealing together a defense as this goes along. All the "it was nothing" and WIFOM has now degenerated into "it was a random vote" and "it was a ploy to stir discussion".
Flashbacks to Kenji in Kung Fu Mafia.
He's also seeming a bit petulant about being pressured.
I read this as newb scum over newb newb, definitely.
Quote from tanarin »
Alright, now that I have done that, is anyone else here not the slightest bit curious how come there was not a second kill last night. I mean with 25 people at the start of the game, I would of figured we be good for at least two. Going off of that assumption I am willing to bet someone here has information as to who may be cleared and/or scum. As for revealing that info, I would hope the town would use discretion in their dropping of the hints.
See, I read this as "DOC PLEASE OUT URSELF KTHX ps don't blame me if doc outs himself". There's no earthly point in the post if you aren't fishing for a hint at a doc, and the last sentence is pure ass-covering.
Reading further, I see other people agree with me. That's a worry, I usually have to fight tooth and nail to get people to agree with me.
Quote from Cyan »
I think that the notion that Tanarin might be the SK because he speculated about a missing kill is pretty silly.
And in particular, DD's vote jump there reeks of opportunism, to me.
Yes and yes. I think there's a good shot indeed that Tanarin is scum, but I think jumping to SK is a stretch (it actually could be a tell that DD is mafia and knows Tanarin isn't that kind of mafia, although that's an enormous stretch).
Quote from cpe »
I agree, I must say that I have kill speculated MANY more times as town than as scum.
Townies often kill speculate when there's good reason to kill speculate, like actual missing kills or whatever. This seems like speculation for the sake of fishing.
Quote from BigTime »
I also agree, Redington is undermining the ability to play the game so early. With the ideas posted by both creampuff and Tilde, I must say VOTE Redington.
Huh?
unvotewith intention to vote iLord - I don't think it's necessary to risk a speedlynch, there's sufficient votes already to say that there's a big interest in looking further into iLord.
I think with the unofficial count from ~Tilde~ and RafK's intention to vote, I believe we've got a sign of support that a claim is due from iLord. I've already expressed having a good (currently hidden) reason for wanting that claim from him, anyhow, so I'm definitely on board.
I don't know about iLord yet. Yes, he's kind of flailing, and yes, it appears he's changing his rationale for why he voted from post to post, but I have seen far worse "contradictions" from townies before, especially new players. Am I giving him too much benefit of the doubt because he's new? Maybe. It certainly was a fast wagon though (I mean, 8 votes in <150 posts, with several other people FOSing or declaring their probable intentions to vote?)
@iLord: Okay, just so I'm clear on this, your "plan" was to create an unnecessary, quick end to the random phase by posting a simple "random" vote and attempting to draw unnecessary suspicion onto yourself, so you could hopefully explain your way out of it, wasting everyone's time? Right.
If that, somehow, actually happens to be true, it is officially the worst plan I have ever heard.
This sums up my feelings pretty well.
I find myself more in agreement with Ged and Bat. at this moment re: BigTime.
I also agree, Redington is undermining the ability to play the game so early. With the ideas posted by both creampuff and Tilde, I must say VOTE Redington.
No offense to CPE and ~Tilde~, but you are picking the wrong people to bangwagon with.
Vote: BigTime
Also, what Tanarin said was not scummy, and certainly not "fishing," so people ought to lay off him about it. He would have to be a really, really smart scum to make a post like that and actually be scum.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I don't know about iLord yet. Yes, he's kind of flailing, and yes, it appears he's changing his rationale for why he voted from post to post, but I have seen far worse "contradictions" from townies before, especially new players. Am I giving him too much benefit of the doubt because he's new? Maybe. It certainly was a fast wagon though (I mean, 8 votes in <150 posts, with several other people FOSing or declaring their probable intentions to vote?)
The correct answer to your self-question above is "yes", not "maybe".
Quote from Axelrod »
This sums up my feelings pretty well.
Okay, fair. But what do you honestly think is more likely - changing his story or a stupid plan that Vampyr and I have pointed out is terribly inconsistent with his behavior?
Quote from Axelrod »
I find myself more in agreement with Ged and Bat. at this moment re: BigTime.
No offense to CPE and ~Tilde~, but you are picking the wrong people to bangwagon with.
Vote: BigTime
I've got issues with BigTime as well as I mentioned in an earlier post, but why are we diverging from the liar iLord here, exactly? This can become a slam-dunk depending on his claim, trust me.
Quote from Axelrod »
Also, what Tanarin said was not scummy, and certainly not "fishing," so people ought to lay off him about it. He would have to be a really, really smart scum to make a post like that and actually be scum.
So you think Tanarin is not capable of being a smart scum? Does this statement then only come from stupid townies? Help me understand, I'm
Okay, fair. But what do you honestly think is more likely - changing his story or a stupid plan that Vampyr and I have pointed out is terribly inconsistent with his behavior?
I don't think he had any kind of coherent "plan" at all. I think it's possible that he said his random voting was some kind of a plan in retrospect to try and dig himself out of a hole he felt like he had gotten into. What I'm saying it I've seen people make posts I felt were contradictory, and then come up with some explanation for them which didn't makle sense, and then got lynched, and still were town.
I've got issues with BigTime as well as I mentioned in an earlier post, but why are we diverging from the liar iLord here, exactly? This can become a slam-dunk depending on his claim, trust me.
I don't mind trusting you here. I don't vehemently oppose him claiming either. I'm just saying I'm not convinced yet.
So you think Tanarin is not capable of being a smart scum? Does this statement then only come from stupid townies? Help me understand, I'm
What I am saying is this: You are scum. Someone you tried to kill is not dead in the morning. What you do NOT do is make a post where you say "hmm, looks like there might have been a missing kill last night. I think all our Doctors and/or RBers need to be mindful of that and maybe even drop some hints as to who they blocked/protected in the future event they die sos the town can still figure it out.
Basically, you don't tell the town how to screw you over. At least, that's not the first thing that a scum thinks - unless he's very, very crafty. From the one gqame I was in with Tanarin (Random III) I have not received this sense of craftiness. But, sure, maybe he's scum and just gotten better.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
OK, I understand all your above points and agree with almost all of them. I don't think, however, that it's wise for a townie in any circumstance to fabricate a defense. Those townies you reference who did the above did a great injustice to their respective towns, and the same would be said here about iLord if that indeed turns out to be the case. As it stands, though, I think it's far more likely that I've got the screws locked down on a scum who is trying to lie his way out of something that wasn't overly scummy to start, but snowballed into much, much more given his overreaction and flailing.
Okay. Given your "hidden" reasons, I will officially add support for an iLord claim.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
iLord...
If he is lying about his plan, then he is lying, which is bad.
If he is being honest about his plan, then he was intentionally trying to be disruptive to the town, which is also bad.
So...
Yes, I'll support an iLord claim at this point.
I actually agree with Axelrod on most points here.
I read iLord and see newbie town doing something kinda stupid, overreacting, panicking, and doing/saying anythin he can to "prove" his innocence. Sadly, I think it will require a claim to settle the matter though.
Tanarin bears some looking into I think. I guess I'm not seeing how its crafty of him in a townie way to suggest that our protective roles subtly claim anything. The scum have multiple players capable of working together at night to decipher any clues they find.
minor FOS Axelrod on that. At least until he explains what I'm missing here.
Also, as far as good analysis and townie points go, just a small nitpick. Catching scum doesn't make you town. It makes you town *or* scum that wants to look town by throwing a partner under the bus. As odd as this sounds, if iLord is lynched and turns up scum, I'll be looking at DYH and/or Vampyr next.
Also, as far as good analysis and townie points go, just a small nitpick. Catching scum doesn't make you town. It makes you town *or* scum that wants to look town by throwing a partner under the bus. As odd as this sounds, if iLord is lynched and turns up scum, I'll be looking at DYH and/or Vampyr next.
You're missing a huge point for your "small nitpick". Bussing a partner out of nowhere day one would be asinine. You have to take the context of the case in mind - if iLord comes up scum you'd look at me or Vamp? Nice way to keep the pressure off those of you pushing against the case, eh? Convenient logic, and awful at that.
Also, I had an idea that may be far-fetched, but perhaps someone who has read the books can enlighten us as to whether or not its plausible.
I once played a game of Magic Mafia. One of the roles was Teferi who was a semi-doc like role. He phased people out at night and they didn't return until the twilight of the day following. Sort of putting the player in "protective custody". I think loran has put a lot of flavor work into this game, so it's pretty safe to ask if anyone who has read the books knows of a role that might do that type of thing.
Also, as far as good analysis and townie points go, just a small nitpick. Catching scum doesn't make you town. It makes you town *or* scum that wants to look town by throwing a partner under the bus. As odd as this sounds, if iLord is lynched and turns up scum, I'll be looking at DYH and/or Vampyr next.
While it is certainly true that scum can bus their scumbuddies, it's hardly the most likely thing to have happened. To say that you would immediatly be more suspicious of those that pushed his lynch the hardest is just backwards.
The times I have felt that way were when I saw someone being "right" about someone being scum when they had absolutely no reason/basis for believing that person to be scum. Or when it appeared to me they were making a very poor/stretched argument that the player was scum. That is not what is going on right now.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@DYH- not when you start out as just pointing something out and your newbie partner digs himself in deeper instead of just explaining it away. Then, you've either got to backpedal (suicide for the scum partner) or *lead* the bandwagon in hopes to appear townie.
If he comes up town, I'll most likely look at Axelrod, who seems to be kinda wishy washy about it. Like he knows he's a townie, and this is a pretty good bandwagon to get a townie lynched, and by showing some faith in iLord, he can earn townie points himself.
@DYH- not when you start out as just pointing something out and your newbie partner digs himself in deeper instead of just explaining it away. Then, you've either got to backpedal (suicide for the scum partner) or *lead* the bandwagon in hopes to appear townie.
If he comes up town, I'll most likely look at Axelrod, who seems to be kinda wishy washy about it. Like he knows he's a townie, and this is a pretty good bandwagon to get a townie lynched, and by showing some faith in iLord, he can earn townie points himself.
So what you are saying is: scum -> look at DYH. Town -> look at Axelrod.
Nice to know.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Either way, DM is doing a great job of pushing attention away from everyone else who is either bandwagoning the case or bandwagoning the anti-case. Setting up the next day's target is certainly questionable behavior.
It was nothing. It was a random vote that generated discussion. There was nothing. There is no contradiction. Here's what was going on in my mind as this played out: I first posted the vote without any explanation to hopefully push us out of random. Then, when I was questioned, I explained it. Instead of this ending after a few people voiced their suspicions, people proceeded to see more than there was to see. I explained that it was a random vote/nothing and the WIFOM was (admitedly invalid. Didn't see it was WIFOM when I was posting it. A mite bit hasty. Hopefully, it won't happen again.) defense against your accusations that it was scummy. I admit that I didn't have the clearest idea what we were going to talk about after the suspicion on me (hopefully) ended, but some people seem to have seen some other stuff other than me to talk about anyway.
This makes absolutely no sense hunny. i would Really love it if you started to make sense.
@DYH (Again): The point of the post was not that it was the second vote, (I didn't even notice it. I just choose Niv cause he was being discussed and his grammar was quite atrocious) but because of the lack of explanation. You say that my lack of explanation was scummy. It was not. None of this admitedly would have happened if I had just Random Voted again normally. (I'm pretty sure that Random Voting twice is not a scum tell) However, by not doing so, my "plan" was sucessful in that respect. It was not sucessful in the respect that its probably gonna get me lynched despite me not seeing anything scummy about it. (Just another question. If I choose someone else random, would this have happened. Is the suspicion on me just because of my choice of Niv? If so, I might just kill myself for not thinking.)
Random voting twice is not a scum tell hunny. justifying it as this abysmal plan is.
I admit that I don't see the scumminess of this, but I guess you guys must have some type of valid reasoning or so many people wouldn't have agreed. I'm trying out a new posting style, one that is less reactive, but guess all it does is pointlessly draw suspicion.
Nice excuse dear. its almost like you can't defend your actions, and you must resort to the fake defence. not god sweetie
@TheFooFish: By the lack of explanation. I knew that if I saw someone vote without explanation, I would be immediately suspicious. I would not still be this suspicious after what I (obviously) believe to be a decent explanation, so all of this suspicion falling on me was not in my plan.
Nonsense. I'd just love if you could start to make sense hunny
Finally a quick request to both Niv and AK: The two of you appear to have the same posting restriction. Please could you each comment individually on whether you have any reason (besides conjecture) to believe each other's posting restriction? And further to that, did you have reason to expect each other's existence prior to gamestart?
It's somewhere in the thread already. reading is tech dearest.
There is no character who acts like Niv is acting. Except possibly Cersei Lannister. And that's not even a great fit. And I don't really know why Niv would want to be telegraphing being that character.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
It's somewhere in the thread already. reading is tech dearest.
So if you're town why not stop being an asshat and answer the question?
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@Vampyr: Yeah I see your point, but I have never liked using votes to get reactions. Just been a personal thing I believe in. Would you prefer I throw more votes around? It just isn't me. If I feel someone deserves a serious vote, I will give my reasons and vote them, plain and simple.
Understandable about using votes as pressure, but that's not what I'm suggesting. You made the comment that not voting early is something you abide by. I'm saying that not voting at all early on is not a good practice, for various reasons.
Oh, no evidence, thats just my belief, and saying that those of you pushing the iLord wagon are suspicious, and I am not joining. Is it fact? of course not.
I agree, I must say that I have kill speculated MANY more times as town than as scum.
Ok, just wanted to find out why you thought there was that specific number of scums on the wagon. I found it odd that a specific number was given. It seems more common that people speak in general amounts when speculating about scum on wagons.
Alright! Lovely pages to come home too! Firstly, I have been asked not to post while under the influence of alcohol, but I haven't posted in awhile so I'll be brief and concise in my post.
76: I'd rather keep the secret as hidden as it already is, or as in plain sight as it already is. Curiosity usually can be mistaken as fishing, so please don't.
Well, I don't see the point of announcing "hey I see some scummy things" and then not bothering to elaborate. If you see it, point it out so that the town can evaulate your findings and act upon it if necessary. Or don't say anything at all and continue to watch who you're suspicious of and gather more incriminating evidence, without alerting a possible scum that they are exhibiting obvious tells.
Otherwise, dangling a carrot like that makes you come across as a someone who wants to appear to be doing something without actually doing anything. You provide no evidence that you've done anything to help the town. That's not a very townie thing to do.
I actually agree with Axelrod on most points here.
I read iLord and see newbie town doing something kinda stupid, overreacting, panicking, and doing/saying anythin he can to "prove" his innocence. Sadly, I think it will require a claim to settle the matter though.
Tanarin bears some looking into I think. I guess I'm not seeing how its crafty of him in a townie way to suggest that our protective roles subtly claim anything. The scum have multiple players capable of working together at night to decipher any clues they find.
minor [b]FOS Axelrod[b] on that. At least until he explains what I'm missing here.
Also, as far as good analysis and townie points go, just a small nitpick. Catching scum doesn't make you town. It makes you town *or* scum that wants to look town by throwing a partner under the bus. As odd as this sounds, if iLord is lynched and turns up scum, I'll be looking at DYH and/or Vampyr next.
Wow, how many different ways does this post reek. Barning Axel, fence sitting and wishy washiness over iLord and Tanarin, throwing dirt on Axel in the form of the FoS and then on DYH and myself for possibly catching a scum. Yeesh, none of this post sits well with me.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Vote: BigTime - It's hard, isn't it, pretending to be a townie? You try to claim a few town points and get told off for it. Even namechecking people doesn't seem to be helping you to blend in.
What? I guess I am asking for you to clarify this statement. I really don't see the problem with my earlier analysis. All I am saying is that this is going rather swiftly, nothing wrong with that, just commenting on the quickness of it all. Where is the scum in that? All I have said to this point is that iLord is probably just being an accedentally stupid townie and that we may be after the wrong guy. As for my Redington vote...
I find myself more in agreement with Ged and Bat. at this moment re: BigTime.
No offense to CPE and ~Tilde~, but you are picking the wrong people to bangwagon with.
Vote: BigTime.
So, what, are you voting against me due to the people providing info I am using? So far, both CPE and Tilde have shown virtually no scum behavior, so I don't believe they are being tricky. That, and my reasoning for voting Redington is from my own conclusion of their information. He jumps on the bandwagon, shrugging it off like by saying that's all you can do on day one. He's really not trying to play the game at all, and he's just pushing the day one step closer to night. His non-chalent (SP?) tactics speak for themselves. Redington is scum.
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Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
What? I guess I am asking for you to clarify this statement.
I think you'll find I write with perfect clarity already.
The point is that you gave me the impression that you were missing no opportunity to make comments likely to be perceived as pro-town (warning against a fast lynch being such a comment because the Mafia love fast lynches). And then when you got around to saying something less obviously benevolent (by attacking Redington) your first recourse is to emphasise that you are backing the views of others. So it isn't your fault if something goes wrong.
But don't worry, I never expect people to agree when I accuse them of being scummy. It's not about your defence. I just like to explain my votes, is all.
So far, both CPE and Tilde have shown virtually no scum behavior
Defensive wording again. Why include "virtually" there? I'm curious now as to what the small amounts of scumminess you presumably have picked up consist of in each case!
non-chalent (SP?)
Nonchalant. Etymologically it's from the French verb chaloir, meaning (roughly) "to care about", but in English it's long since merged into a single word.
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I'll answer the points agaisnt me (hopefully, I might be busy today) soon and I'll claim if I get to lynch -3. I, however, have yet another question. Why would any scum do what I did? What would be the point?
I think you'll find I write with perfect clarity already.
The point is that you gave me the impression that you were missing no opportunity to make comments likely to be perceived as pro-town (warning against a fast lynch being such a comment because the Mafia love fast lynches). And then when you got around to saying something less obviously benevolent (by attacking Redington) your first recourse is to emphasise that you are backing the views of others. So it isn't your fault if something goes wrong.
But don't worry, I never expect people to agree when I accuse them of being scummy. It's not about your defence. I just like to explain my votes, is all.
Defensive wording again. Why include "virtually" there? I'm curious now as to what the small amounts of scumminess you presumably have picked up consist of in each case!
Nonchalant. Etymologically it's from the French verb chaloir, meaning (roughly) "to care about", but in English it's long since merged into a single word.
Ok, well, to clarify my statement, I would first like to state that in no way do I pass blame for anything I might say to anybody else. In fact, my reasoning is not based on CPE or Tildes reasoning, just the information they gave. My vote is based around the flippy floppy statements made by Red. But yeah, I take all blame for things I say, I was just reference the information I used to get there.
Also, I say virtually because I am kinda stupid. I used a word in hopes of accentuating my point, but I didn't think about it as I did it. I meant to say that I haven't seen anything scummy out of either of them so far.
I still stand by my point the Red is scum at this point. Also, I would be willing to shift to an iLord vote IF it comes up with proof that he is scum. So far his case is based around noob mistake. That could be anything.
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That's no longer the point, and can truly only be answered by WIFOM. The point is how you defended yourself. I'm not saying the initial case against you was very good to begin with - it was a gut reaction on my part and a questionable action to take as a townie - your amoebic defense is the primary issue now.
No, you need to claim now. We already have the votes and others not voting you giving support.
I still stand by my point the Red is scum at this point. Also, I would be willing to shift to an iLord vote IF it comes up with proof that he is scum. So far his case is based around noob mistake. That could be anything.
Do what? Are you reading the thread? The case around him is based on fabriacating a defense.
Furthermore, short of a confirmed cop result, when do you ever expect to have "proof" someone is scum? How is that a justifiable vote you have on Redington then? Where's the "proof"?
That's no longer the point, and can truly only be answered by WIFOM. The point is how you defended yourself. I'm not saying the initial case against you was very good to begin with - it was a gut reaction on my part and a questionable action to take as a townie - your amoebic defense is the primary issue now.
No, you need to claim now. We already have the votes and others not voting you giving support.
I assume that's directed towards iLord? Sorry, I got a post in there
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Do what? Are you reading the thread? The case around him is based on fabriacating a defense.
Furthermore, short of a confirmed cop result, when do you ever expect to have "proof" someone is scum? How is that a justifiable vote you have on Redington then? Where's the "proof"?
I see iLord making a mistake to begin with, and his poor defense is just pressure. Him being backed up into a corner is causing a wacked out defense. iLord really has no place to go, and has had no place to go from the getgo. Methinks this case, while now centered around his poor defense, is due to the first mistake he made. It seems like one mistake after another, mistakes spawned by mistakes. The point is, without his first little blurb, there is no case.
In Redington's case, his poor reasoning in voting, his blatent support for fishing, and his contradictory statements more than scream scum to me. I will agree, it is hard to have proof this early in the game, but from what I have seen, Redington is much more lynchworthy than anybody else I have seen in the game so far.
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his contradictory statements more than scream scum to me
They do? What's that as a percentage chance he's scum?
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I see iLord making a mistake to begin with, and his poor defense is just pressure. Him being backed up into a corner is causing a wacked out defense. iLord really has no place to go, and has had no place to go from the getgo. Methinks this case, while now centered around his poor defense, is due to the first mistake he made. It seems like one mistake after another, mistakes spawned by mistakes. The point is, without his first little blurb, there is no case.
No, the correct answer would've been to tell the truth all along. Which he did initially (he hated Niv's PR and grammar), but then backed it up with WIFOM (why would I do this as scum?) and what looks very much like lies (it was random and a gambit) when pressed by bateleur for his poor logic. Poor logic is not scummy, lying about why you used it is.
Quote from BigTime »
In Redington's case, his poor reasoning in voting, his blatent support for fishing, and his contradictory statements more than scream scum to me. I will agree, it is hard to have proof this early in the game, but from what I have seen, Redington is much more lynchworthy than anybody else I have seen in the game so far.
Which again begs the question - where is this magical "proof" you seek? You're applying a double-standard here: voting iLord is wrong because he made a "series of mistakes" (proof?), but you're voting Redington on what you deem "scummy" (proof?).
Pdog Crusader has been modprodded. RafK will be prodded if he doesnt post by midnight. Anyone else im missing?
With 23 alive, it is 12 to lynch!
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
PS iLord; you're at -3 or even lower counting ALL the suspicion
And Niv mimey, that 3-some you mentioned? Get me in there.
Bigtime is somewhat scummy, though I do like Big;)
Tanarin is far scummier though, as is DM, for their blatent doc fishing. I would put Tan at #2, and DM at #3 right now, though I tan's cutie avatar.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
@TheFooFish: While it was unnecessary, I was trying to accomplish something. I was pretty sure that I could defend my position decently because I didn't see anything scummy about it. I wasn't extremely well thought out, and I thought it was simple enough. As soon as people start discussing me, something is bound to come up (and it has.)
@Tanarin: It was not a "random vote" in the actual vote, but rather a "random vote" in the random choice for the vote.
@Vampyr: Participating was just to show that I was checking in. I wouldn't have mattered if I voted or not. Then, in my second post, I ended it.
@DYH: So, you think that my defense is inconsistent and inadequete. I'm trying my best to express my intentions. I don't see any inconsisencies.
@Redington: Ummm. Look at my responses above. Way to reiterate what everybody else said.
@Bataleur: If you believe that I'm lying, there's nothing I can say. I explained my reasoning and if you still refuse to believe, there's nothing I can do.
@DYH (Again): I think I know why you wan't me to claim...
@TheFooFish (Again): Intentionally disruptive? I guess you look at it that way. What have I learned this game? Not to mess with the random phase.
@DYH (3): For everyone who doesn't believe me (including you) why would anyone, (doesn't matter if it was scum or town) do what I did? The only logical answer is what I said. For your information, I was typing this reply at school during the time. Didn't get to finish, though, hence its lateness.
Me claiming does nothing good for the town at this point. I may theoretically be over Lynch-3, but I'm not going to claim until another person votes. The more information the town has to go on if I die, the better chance we have of actually catching scum.
Jeez, all of this just becuase of trying to get out of the Random... I learned this lesson the hard way.
Well, I don't see the point of announcing "hey I see some scummy things" and then not bothering to elaborate. If you see it, point it out so that the town can evaulate your findings and act upon it if necessary. Or don't say anything at all and continue to watch who you're suspicious of and gather more incriminating evidence, without alerting a possible scum that they are exhibiting obvious tells.
Otherwise, dangling a carrot like that makes you come across as a someone who wants to appear to be doing something without actually doing anything. You provide no evidence that you've done anything to help the town. That's not a very townie thing to do.
I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted me. I didn't find something scummy there. I found something interesting. Following yet? Lets say, you have a role. It's not anyone else's job to talk about your role unless it's vital to the game's current situation and you've claimed, it's yours. So if someone hasn't claimed, should I talk about their role? I'm going with no. What I'm talking about is far from a scum tell, but your observant nature is noted.
The suspicion still seems to be around iLord and more recently Tanarin. iLord became scummy in my mind when he basically said "yeah...umm...I meant to do something scummy!" which was tantamount to falling down and trying to play it off like you were looking for something you dropped.
As for tanarin, I seem to recall a similar case of fishing, though with all these pages I can't even remember where it was anymore. This game is huge and quite daunting for me because of that. I'm used to smaller games...but the case of fishing I found was less blatant and wasn't jumped on like tanarin's. So I'm not sure if there is something to the relation that one was jumped on and one wasn't, but I think it'd be worth going back and finding later on after we've confirmed people through deaths and are looking at connections.
DYH: I remember playing with you a short time only, but you have a brutal playstyle. Like Leonidus playing mafia. I previously assumed it was a town tell but it was brought to my attention that it's more of a null tell. Regardless, it's good to play with you.
So your big response is "it would be bad for the town"?
WOW.
Sweetums, I know that it won't be possible for me to sleep with you tonight; I'm no necrophile.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Ok DYH, after reading the posts and going over it more clearly, I can see that the scumminess lies in the screwed up defense and not the origional post. Redington does seem scummy, but I could have been reading into his posts a little too quick. I'll UNVOTE for now.
My deal with Redington was proof to me. His contradictions, flip-flopping and quickness jumping on the bandwagon seemed enough. Heh, I used the word proof too lightly. It just seemed to me that the case against iLord was more guesswork, but after rereading the issue, it doesn't play well as townie at all. Redington may be scum, but iLord talks more scummy. In my defense, I was also afraid of having such a swift lynch incase we had the wrong suspect.
Alas, the posts don't lie, but iLord does. VOTE iLord.
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76: I'd rather keep the secret as hidden as it already is, or as in plain sight as it already is. Curiosity usually can be mistaken as fishing, so please don't.
77: Good posting DYH. This stood out to me. Pwned.
141: Almost 100 posts later, still going strong. Townie points for DYH.
mostly for the iLord thing, I'm playing in newb mafia with him and i'm guessing he's making a ton of newb mistakes. I'm pretty sure this is the case actually. He is a newb guys.
And...i think thats all for now. I'll keep reading as we go along of course.
Well, it was actually me commenting on the wagon moving fast, and I was overreacting, but with that unnofficial postcount, we actually could have a rather swift Day 1. It's not a bad thing, just funny how it all went so quickly.
I also agree, Redington is undermining the ability to play the game so early. With the ideas posted by both creampuff and Tilde, I must say VOTE Redington.
It's funny, because he says it's day one and there is really nothing to take into account, but still hops onto the bandwagon for iLord like it's nothing. Hmm, I didn't see any real analysis on his vote, other than "This guy looks scummy." I can assume he is just copy/paste previous reasons for voting to get his own reasoning. Seriously though, this smells like scum.
As for Tanarin, what's the possibility of having power roles disclosing subtle hints that the scum would not pick up? What would be the risk to that?
Good analysis by DYH, yes. But good analysis doesn't make someone more townie until it bags a scum. If you don't think DYH would also play like this as Mafia you're in for a nasty shock.
Here are my summary impressions of the last six pages:
FoS: iLord - I found nothing scummy at all in the vote he was initially attacked for, but his "I did it on purpose" defence was a clear lie.
FoS: tanarin - Chatting about NKs is fine. Suggesting that power roles "drop hints" is not fine.
FoS: Redington - Just think about that "scum would not pick up". Do they have different eyes from the rest of us? Also you should bear in mind that there was a night zero. This day one is far from pointless. I expect it to be both long and useful.
Vote: BigTime - It's hard, isn't it, pretending to be a townie? You try to claim a few town points and get told off for it. Even namechecking people doesn't seem to be helping you to blend in.
Finally a quick request to both Niv and AK: The two of you appear to have the same posting restriction. Please could you each comment individually on whether you have any reason (besides conjecture) to believe each other's posting restriction? And further to that, did you have reason to expect each other's existence prior to gamestart?
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Whether or not it's worth the effort, I would suggest that anyone who FOUND something in Niv and AK's posting is probably better off not saying at this point.
iLord (in #79) is going into way too much WIFOM for my liking to explain a vote made inside the first 2 pages of a large game.
Flashbacks to Kenji in Kung Fu Mafia.
He's also seeming a bit petulant about being pressured.
I read this as newb scum over newb newb, definitely.
See, I read this as "DOC PLEASE OUT URSELF KTHX ps don't blame me if doc outs himself". There's no earthly point in the post if you aren't fishing for a hint at a doc, and the last sentence is pure ass-covering.
Reading further, I see other people agree with me. That's a worry, I usually have to fight tooth and nail to get people to agree with me.
Yes and yes. I think there's a good shot indeed that Tanarin is scum, but I think jumping to SK is a stretch (it actually could be a tell that DD is mafia and knows Tanarin isn't that kind of mafia, although that's an enormous stretch).
Townies often kill speculate when there's good reason to kill speculate, like actual missing kills or whatever. This seems like speculation for the sake of fishing.
Huh?
unvote with intention to vote iLord - I don't think it's necessary to risk a speedlynch, there's sufficient votes already to say that there's a big interest in looking further into iLord.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
This sums up my feelings pretty well.
I find myself more in agreement with Ged and Bat. at this moment re: BigTime.
No offense to CPE and ~Tilde~, but you are picking the wrong people to bangwagon with.
Vote: BigTime
Also, what Tanarin said was not scummy, and certainly not "fishing," so people ought to lay off him about it. He would have to be a really, really smart scum to make a post like that and actually be scum.
The correct answer to your self-question above is "yes", not "maybe".
Okay, fair. But what do you honestly think is more likely - changing his story or a stupid plan that Vampyr and I have pointed out is terribly inconsistent with his behavior?
I've got issues with BigTime as well as I mentioned in an earlier post, but why are we diverging from the liar iLord here, exactly? This can become a slam-dunk depending on his claim, trust me.
So you think Tanarin is not capable of being a smart scum? Does this statement then only come from stupid townies? Help me understand, I'm
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You may be right.
I don't think he had any kind of coherent "plan" at all. I think it's possible that he said his random voting was some kind of a plan in retrospect to try and dig himself out of a hole he felt like he had gotten into. What I'm saying it I've seen people make posts I felt were contradictory, and then come up with some explanation for them which didn't makle sense, and then got lynched, and still were town.
I don't mind trusting you here. I don't vehemently oppose him claiming either. I'm just saying I'm not convinced yet.
What I am saying is this: You are scum. Someone you tried to kill is not dead in the morning. What you do NOT do is make a post where you say "hmm, looks like there might have been a missing kill last night. I think all our Doctors and/or RBers need to be mindful of that and maybe even drop some hints as to who they blocked/protected in the future event they die sos the town can still figure it out.
Basically, you don't tell the town how to screw you over. At least, that's not the first thing that a scum thinks - unless he's very, very crafty. From the one gqame I was in with Tanarin (Random III) I have not received this sense of craftiness. But, sure, maybe he's scum and just gotten better.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
The rest of my reasoning is because he's acting like a flailing scum.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
If he is lying about his plan, then he is lying, which is bad.
If he is being honest about his plan, then he was intentionally trying to be disruptive to the town, which is also bad.
So...
Yes, I'll support an iLord claim at this point.
I read iLord and see newbie town doing something kinda stupid, overreacting, panicking, and doing/saying anythin he can to "prove" his innocence. Sadly, I think it will require a claim to settle the matter though.
Tanarin bears some looking into I think. I guess I'm not seeing how its crafty of him in a townie way to suggest that our protective roles subtly claim anything. The scum have multiple players capable of working together at night to decipher any clues they find.
minor FOS Axelrod on that. At least until he explains what I'm missing here.
Also, as far as good analysis and townie points go, just a small nitpick. Catching scum doesn't make you town. It makes you town *or* scum that wants to look town by throwing a partner under the bus. As odd as this sounds, if iLord is lynched and turns up scum, I'll be looking at DYH and/or Vampyr next.
You're missing a huge point for your "small nitpick". Bussing a partner out of nowhere day one would be asinine. You have to take the context of the case in mind - if iLord comes up scum you'd look at me or Vamp? Nice way to keep the pressure off those of you pushing against the case, eh? Convenient logic, and awful at that.
FoS: Dragyn_Mage
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I once played a game of Magic Mafia. One of the roles was Teferi who was a semi-doc like role. He phased people out at night and they didn't return until the twilight of the day following. Sort of putting the player in "protective custody". I think loran has put a lot of flavor work into this game, so it's pretty safe to ask if anyone who has read the books knows of a role that might do that type of thing.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
While it is certainly true that scum can bus their scumbuddies, it's hardly the most likely thing to have happened. To say that you would immediatly be more suspicious of those that pushed his lynch the hardest is just backwards.
The times I have felt that way were when I saw someone being "right" about someone being scum when they had absolutely no reason/basis for believing that person to be scum. Or when it appeared to me they were making a very poor/stretched argument that the player was scum. That is not what is going on right now.
If he comes up town, I'll most likely look at Axelrod, who seems to be kinda wishy washy about it. Like he knows he's a townie, and this is a pretty good bandwagon to get a townie lynched, and by showing some faith in iLord, he can earn townie points himself.
So what you are saying is: scum -> look at DYH. Town -> look at Axelrod.
Nice to know.
Either way, DM is doing a great job of pushing attention away from everyone else who is either bandwagoning the case or bandwagoning the anti-case. Setting up the next day's target is certainly questionable behavior.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
This makes absolutely no sense hunny. i would Really love it if you started to make sense.
I Love french. wont you come to bed with me you hunk of a french man. Ohhh
Random voting twice is not a scum tell hunny. justifying it as this abysmal plan is.
Nice excuse dear. its almost like you can't defend your actions, and you must resort to the fake defence. not god sweetie
Nonsense. I'd just love if you could start to make sense hunny
QFT. Wanna come to bed with me? you are so smart. and smart men turn me on
It's somewhere in the thread already. reading is tech dearest.
QFT, wanna have a threesome with me and cyan, if cyan says yes of course.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
So if you're town why not stop being an asshat and answer the question?
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Understandable about using votes as pressure, but that's not what I'm suggesting. You made the comment that not voting early is something you abide by. I'm saying that not voting at all early on is not a good practice, for various reasons.
Ok, just wanted to find out why you thought there was that specific number of scums on the wagon. I found it odd that a specific number was given. It seems more common that people speak in general amounts when speculating about scum on wagons.
Well, I don't see the point of announcing "hey I see some scummy things" and then not bothering to elaborate. If you see it, point it out so that the town can evaulate your findings and act upon it if necessary. Or don't say anything at all and continue to watch who you're suspicious of and gather more incriminating evidence, without alerting a possible scum that they are exhibiting obvious tells.
Otherwise, dangling a carrot like that makes you come across as a someone who wants to appear to be doing something without actually doing anything. You provide no evidence that you've done anything to help the town. That's not a very townie thing to do.
Wow, how many different ways does this post reek. Barning Axel, fence sitting and wishy washiness over iLord and Tanarin, throwing dirt on Axel in the form of the FoS and then on DYH and myself for possibly catching a scum. Yeesh, none of this post sits well with me.
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lol, this is my first game on this forum actually. Other forums I have been in 4 total games.
What? I guess I am asking for you to clarify this statement. I really don't see the problem with my earlier analysis. All I am saying is that this is going rather swiftly, nothing wrong with that, just commenting on the quickness of it all. Where is the scum in that? All I have said to this point is that iLord is probably just being an accedentally stupid townie and that we may be after the wrong guy. As for my Redington vote...
So, what, are you voting against me due to the people providing info I am using? So far, both CPE and Tilde have shown virtually no scum behavior, so I don't believe they are being tricky. That, and my reasoning for voting Redington is from my own conclusion of their information. He jumps on the bandwagon, shrugging it off like by saying that's all you can do on day one. He's really not trying to play the game at all, and he's just pushing the day one step closer to night. His non-chalent (SP?) tactics speak for themselves. Redington is scum.
I think you'll find I write with perfect clarity already.
The point is that you gave me the impression that you were missing no opportunity to make comments likely to be perceived as pro-town (warning against a fast lynch being such a comment because the Mafia love fast lynches). And then when you got around to saying something less obviously benevolent (by attacking Redington) your first recourse is to emphasise that you are backing the views of others. So it isn't your fault if something goes wrong.
But don't worry, I never expect people to agree when I accuse them of being scummy. It's not about your defence. I just like to explain my votes, is all.
Defensive wording again. Why include "virtually" there? I'm curious now as to what the small amounts of scumminess you presumably have picked up consist of in each case!
Nonchalant. Etymologically it's from the French verb chaloir, meaning (roughly) "to care about", but in English it's long since merged into a single word.
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Ok, well, to clarify my statement, I would first like to state that in no way do I pass blame for anything I might say to anybody else. In fact, my reasoning is not based on CPE or Tildes reasoning, just the information they gave. My vote is based around the flippy floppy statements made by Red. But yeah, I take all blame for things I say, I was just reference the information I used to get there.
Also, I say virtually because I am kinda stupid. I used a word in hopes of accentuating my point, but I didn't think about it as I did it. I meant to say that I haven't seen anything scummy out of either of them so far.
I still stand by my point the Red is scum at this point. Also, I would be willing to shift to an iLord vote IF it comes up with proof that he is scum. So far his case is based around noob mistake. That could be anything.
No, you need to claim now. We already have the votes and others not voting you giving support.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Do what? Are you reading the thread? The case around him is based on fabriacating a defense.
Furthermore, short of a confirmed cop result, when do you ever expect to have "proof" someone is scum? How is that a justifiable vote you have on Redington then? Where's the "proof"?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I assume that's directed towards iLord? Sorry, I got a post in there
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
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Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
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For when you do return, iLord, your claim should be the first thing in here. Your stalling pretty much speaks for itself in my eyes, though.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I see iLord making a mistake to begin with, and his poor defense is just pressure. Him being backed up into a corner is causing a wacked out defense. iLord really has no place to go, and has had no place to go from the getgo. Methinks this case, while now centered around his poor defense, is due to the first mistake he made. It seems like one mistake after another, mistakes spawned by mistakes. The point is, without his first little blurb, there is no case.
In Redington's case, his poor reasoning in voting, his blatent support for fishing, and his contradictory statements more than scream scum to me. I will agree, it is hard to have proof this early in the game, but from what I have seen, Redington is much more lynchworthy than anybody else I have seen in the game so far.
They do? What's that as a percentage chance he's scum?
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No, the correct answer would've been to tell the truth all along. Which he did initially (he hated Niv's PR and grammar), but then backed it up with WIFOM (why would I do this as scum?) and what looks very much like lies (it was random and a gambit) when pressed by bateleur for his poor logic. Poor logic is not scummy, lying about why you used it is.
Which again begs the question - where is this magical "proof" you seek? You're applying a double-standard here: voting iLord is wrong because he made a "series of mistakes" (proof?), but you're voting Redington on what you deem "scummy" (proof?).
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Tanarin-2-TheFooFish, DragonDart
Niv-1-Wuffles_II,
Redington-2- cpe, bigtime
iLord-8-DYH, AKid, Jobie, Cubus, Niv, Cyan, Redington, Vampyr
Akid-1-iLord
Pdog Crusader has been modprodded. RafK will be prodded if he doesnt post by midnight. Anyone else im missing?
With 23 alive, it is 12 to lynch!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
And Niv mimey, that 3-some you mentioned? Get me in there.
Bigtime is somewhat scummy, though I do like Big;)
Tanarin is far scummier though, as is DM, for their blatent doc fishing. I would put Tan at #2, and DM at #3 right now, though I tan's cutie avatar.
iLord better claim soon imo.
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@Tanarin: It was not a "random vote" in the actual vote, but rather a "random vote" in the random choice for the vote.
@Vampyr: Participating was just to show that I was checking in. I wouldn't have mattered if I voted or not. Then, in my second post, I ended it.
@DYH: So, you think that my defense is inconsistent and inadequete. I'm trying my best to express my intentions. I don't see any inconsisencies.
@Redington: Ummm. Look at my responses above. Way to reiterate what everybody else said.
@Bataleur: If you believe that I'm lying, there's nothing I can say. I explained my reasoning and if you still refuse to believe, there's nothing I can do.
@DYH (Again): I think I know why you wan't me to claim...
@TheFooFish (Again): Intentionally disruptive? I guess you look at it that way. What have I learned this game? Not to mess with the random phase.
@DYH (3): For everyone who doesn't believe me (including you) why would anyone, (doesn't matter if it was scum or town) do what I did? The only logical answer is what I said. For your information, I was typing this reply at school during the time. Didn't get to finish, though, hence its lateness.
Me claiming does nothing good for the town at this point. I may theoretically be over Lynch-3, but I'm not going to claim until another person votes. The more information the town has to go on if I die, the better chance we have of actually catching scum.
Jeez, all of this just becuase of trying to get out of the Random... I learned this lesson the hard way.
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V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I agree with you. You're making sense more than some others in the thread. A change of pace I suppose?
I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted me. I didn't find something scummy there. I found something interesting. Following yet? Lets say, you have a role. It's not anyone else's job to talk about your role unless it's vital to the game's current situation and you've claimed, it's yours. So if someone hasn't claimed, should I talk about their role? I'm going with no. What I'm talking about is far from a scum tell, but your observant nature is noted.
The suspicion still seems to be around iLord and more recently Tanarin. iLord became scummy in my mind when he basically said "yeah...umm...I meant to do something scummy!" which was tantamount to falling down and trying to play it off like you were looking for something you dropped.
As for tanarin, I seem to recall a similar case of fishing, though with all these pages I can't even remember where it was anymore. This game is huge and quite daunting for me because of that. I'm used to smaller games...but the case of fishing I found was less blatant and wasn't jumped on like tanarin's. So I'm not sure if there is something to the relation that one was jumped on and one wasn't, but I think it'd be worth going back and finding later on after we've confirmed people through deaths and are looking at connections.
DYH: I remember playing with you a short time only, but you have a brutal playstyle. Like Leonidus playing mafia. I previously assumed it was a town tell but it was brought to my attention that it's more of a null tell. Regardless, it's good to play with you.
WOW.
Sweetums, I know that it won't be possible for me to sleep with you tonight; I'm no necrophile.
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My deal with Redington was proof to me. His contradictions, flip-flopping and quickness jumping on the bandwagon seemed enough. Heh, I used the word proof too lightly. It just seemed to me that the case against iLord was more guesswork, but after rereading the issue, it doesn't play well as townie at all. Redington may be scum, but iLord talks more scummy. In my defense, I was also afraid of having such a swift lynch incase we had the wrong suspect.
Alas, the posts don't lie, but iLord does. VOTE iLord.