Also, unvote, vote andelijah, since his last few posts strike me as trying too hard to look townish and sucking up to the vig.
Perhaps you're not reading my post right. Its not that I don't think suspicion is warranted (I believe its wrong, but I see where its coming from), but I want to know, for those keeping their votes post claim, why. This has nothing to do with trying to clear Tilde, but rather have people still on the wagon explain their suspicions and why they think he's lying.
"Az — Proposition A :*Blablabla
CP — We have up to 8 lynches anyway
Andelijah — We have 8 lynches"
Vote : Andelijah. Next time you try to not reveal inside info, try to be a little more original and a little less affirmative.
*Rereads portion quoted.*
I think it went more like this:
"Az — Proposition A :*Blablabla
CP — We have up to 8 lynches anyway
Andelijah (less than a minute later) — We have 8 lynches"
So... you're accusing me of simulposting. Nor do I see how it is inside information.
No, based on how absolutely idiotic it would be to claim vigilante if he's scum.
Maybe. His thought could be that there's a higher probability that if he were counterclaimed he could argue his way through, considering the flavor of the game.
Still, that's not a terrible point. Unvote.
Quote from loran16 »
(For example, Phillip Bauer and the Chinese dude could be neutrals from this last awful season. and since this is season independent, we could have terrorists from different seasons forming different scum groups/sks.)
Maybe. His thought could be that there's a higher probability that if he were counterclaimed he could argue his way through, considering the flavor of the game.
Smart vigs don't counterclaim, they just shoot the imposter; that's why it is a terrible fake claim.
Wow this thread moves fast. I'll try to catch up quickly.
I like my vote where it is for now. I think lurking is an incredibly effective scumtactic in this time-driven setup, and I think lurking should be accordingly treated as a blatant scumtell. I find it likely that at least some of the scum are among players who are either lurking, active-lurking, or making short, mostly contentless posts.
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[20:36] heartsloveBANG: I was tempted to go have a threesome, get pregnant, and have an abortion.
[20:36] heartsloveBANG: in a church.
Saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place. - Maddox
“That’s right,” answered the CTU techie. “Whoever sent you the message attached a self-deletion program to it. All the data gets wiped out within seconds after the message is opened.”
Jack rubbed his chin. “Can it be traced?”
“Given time, probably. But anyone going far enough to spike the message in the first place probably has other ways of not being found.”
“Try anyway. Let me know as soon as you have anything.” The techie nodded, left the office and headed back down the stairs. Jack pressed a button on his intercom. “What do you have for me, guys?”
The line buzzed. “Three possible leads on David Yamizaki. The most likely one is the first one we found – this David Yamizaki is a drug lord who operates out of L.A. The FBI has been on him for a few months now, but all their leads keep ending up dead.”
“Any connections to anyone we know?”
“Not anyone I’m seeing. There is an address, though – it’s for an office complex in San Fernando.”
“All right. We’re gonna start there.”
“Do you want me to send a – “
“No. We’re already at reduced manpower because of the President’s trip. I’ll check it out myself. Send me the address and GPS.” Jack hung up the phone, threw on his jacket, and opened his office door. Stopping with one foot out the door, he turned around and opened his supply cabinet, drew his Sig Sauer from its perch on the top shelf, and slid it into the inside of his jacket.
The Chief of Staff met him as he reached the bottom of the stairs. “Jack, I need to talk to you about Jason Santos.”
Jack scowled. “You let me worry about Jason Santos. I’ll be back in half an hour.”
“Where are you going?”
“I’m following a lead!” he called over his shoulder.
So, we know that Tilde almost certainly claimed his true role, then, or he has access to someone else's true role.
Does this make him more or less likely to be town? The mod post was ambiguous.
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[20:36] heartsloveBANG: I was tempted to go have a threesome, get pregnant, and have an abortion.
[20:36] heartsloveBANG: in a church.
Saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place. - Maddox
According to 24 wiki, and every other wiki i could find, there is no Jason Santos. The closest reference i could find is "Jason" who was never given a last name; but id have no idea if this is the jason that Tilde appearently is.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Why are we still debating Tilde's claim? If Tilde fake claimed vig, the real vig shouldn't have too much trouble taking care of it himself; he would have a kill after all.
@Xyre: I've been making that point for quite awhile now.
Vote: ZDS
I agree with CP. Plus there's his rumbling into the thread FoSing three people and smacking a vote down on the biggest active wagon which was a nice touch. Then, when he realizes he's screwed up counting, makes a CYA post about Andelijah where he couldn't really get more on two sides of the fence.
I don't see why people are talking so much about vigging Tilde. Even if you are a vig, I think you need to consider the possibility of having more than one pro-town killer in the game. This is a large game after all, and given the setting, I don't think it's all too unlikely that we have more than one vig.
I consider the confirmation of a Jason Santos in the game to be a null-tell.
I'd like to put some pressure on Niv. Vote: Niv
I wonder if we'll get one of those every ten minutes.
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Alright: neither David Yamizaki or Jason Santos comes up in Google, so I'm guessing this game has non-canon roles in it.
We should wait at least a little bit before nameclaiming becomes an option. Reasons:
1) If someone dies and their name isn't canon, we just avoided a potential mess.
2) Competent game designers generally try to avoid making mass nameclaim a viable strategy on day 1.
3) Lots of names for scum to hide under. One Jack Bauer.
In any event, we have plenty to gain and little to lose by simply waiting for more information. Something drastic like a mass nameclaim should wait until we know it will be beneficial.
Proposition: Azrael has a database-type ability where he can either verify rolenames, or gain information if he has somebody's rolenames. Town or scum, a powerful ability.
That said, there's absolutely no point in trying to lynch him, because if he's scum he'll get nuked by a townie killer in short order. I really doubt in a 24-theme game that there's no townies with kills
Good point. I really see no reasonable alternative to Tilde being a misguided townie; I can't imagine the SK or mafia being the first to claim.
I would like to know more about the mechanic of Tilde's ability, but if he really thinks it could compromise him I'm fine with trusting him for now.
On the other hand, it looks like theres something fishy about Jason Santos (according to arimnaes). Perhaps a townie with a secondary win condition?
RafK is right about that. It's like, when DYH is town, he can't be bothered waiting for people to explain away their own actions, so he just does it for them so that things can keep going. Then when he's scum, he draws out every little point that he possibly can, trying to catch people up in things that normally would never hold water.
For an example of this dichotomy, see 1001 Nights Mafia vs. Greenwood Mafia.
If you're going to psychoanalyze people, DON'T DO IT IN THE OPEN. -.- Now DYH knows how to change his behavior.
J-effe: seriously, wtf? Do you have a good reason to claim today? If so, why not now?
With all the different factions in 24, I would be surprised NOT to find some sort of neutral or cult apparatus. It's a big dynamic of the show (not that I watch it a lot or anything).
Quote from andejilah »
Glad you can pin down an actual accusation for me to respond to.
so why didn't you respond to it?
For now, J-effe and ande are looking the scummiest but that could just be bad play. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
Proposition: Azrael has a database-type ability where he can either verify rolenames, or gain information if he has somebody's rolenames. Town or scum, a powerful ability.
Ridiculous amount of fishing here.
Good point. I really see no reasonable alternative to Tilde being a misguided townie; I can't imagine the SK or mafia being the first to claim.
I would like to know more about the mechanic of Tilde's ability, but if he really thinks it could compromise him I'm fine with trusting him for now.
On the other hand, it looks like theres something fishy about Jason Santos (according to arimnaes). Perhaps a townie with a secondary win condition?
Manages to WIFOM, says he'll trusts Tilde, and yet tries to throw dirt on him all in the same passage.
If you're going to psychoanalyze people, DON'T DO IT IN THE OPEN. -.- Now DYH knows how to change his behavior.
Thing is, DYH tends to die to NK's regardless. He's just shifty that way.
J-effe: seriously, wtf? Do you have a good reason to claim today? If so, why not now?
Pushing for more information from somebody who already explained the time frame he will claim in.
With all the different factions in 24, I would be surprised NOT to find some sort of neutral or cult apparatus. It's a big dynamic of the show (not that I watch it a lot or anything).
Random speculation, the neutral thing is probable, the cult thing is fear mongering.
For now, J-effe and ande are looking the scummiest but that could just be bad play. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
This is what triggered me the most, i get a strong feeling of inside knowledge on this part of the post.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Obviously Azrael is not going to reveal any role information. I'm simply saying: be wary of stating your rolename.
Manages to WIFOM, says he'll trusts Tilde, and yet tries to throw dirt on him all in the same passage.
Suggesting a secondary win condition is throwing dirt?
Thing is, DYH tends to die to NK's regardless. He's just shifty that way.
I wouldn't know anything about that. I haven't played mafia here for a long time.
Pushing for more information from somebody who already explained the time frame he will claim in.
Well, why not?
Random speculation, the neutral thing is probable, the cult thing is fear mongering.
I don't see how you can say one is probable and the other isn't. As far as I can tell, people tend to work in groups in 24. The classic neutral group is a cult.
This is what triggered me the most, i get a strong feeling of inside knowledge on this part of the post.[/b][/color][/font]
In EVERY game of mafia I have ever played, on Day 1 a couple of townies make noobish looking posts, then when talk stagnates people get bored and lynch them. Every time.
I'll remember that next time I get votes: don't defend myself.
See, I can be sarcastic too, but the thing isn't that you defended yourself, but rather that you made a big deal of reacting to every little thing and trying to blow everything out of the water. There's a difference between defence and over-defensiveness, and it's the way loran tends to get lynched early as scum a lot. Ask him to tell you about it.
Proposition: Azrael has a database-type ability where he can either verify rolenames, or gain information if he has somebody's rolenames. Town or scum, a powerful ability.
See, I can be sarcastic too, but the thing isn't that you defended yourself, but rather that you made a big deal of reacting to every little thing and trying to blow everything out of the water. There's a difference between defense and over-defensiveness, and it's the way loran tends to get lynched early as scum a lot. Ask him to tell you about it.
I tend to get lynched a lot because i get caught for something not bad, and then am terrible defending myself and just make a bajillion scum tells when defending myself for a point thats extremely minor.
_---------------------------------------
Other things that have happened since ive been gone:
The ande wagon, like i said before, i don't see it. The two points that got the wagon started that i can see are:
1. that he seemed to defend Tilde irrationally from the start, which while unusual doesnt seem like scum trying to defend a falling townie to me.
2. that one of his posts didnt sound right to some people.
--------------------------------------------------------------
#2 of these reasons is well...kind of a silly point...how can anyone defend themselves from that? I think ande's fluster about that point is genuine.
#1 is indeed curious, but as i've said seems too obvious for it to be scum defending a wagoned townie. Just seems like he's too focused on defending him.
About the scene, I can't imagine arim having scenes for every 10 minutes this game is going through, if he does, that's pretty absurd and crazy, and would be an impressive body of work. Still, Tilde's name in there doesnt really tell us anything. There was no way he was false name claiming anyhow, and unless the scene told us something scummy about the character, I think its a notell....
In show flavor, generally there's a bunch of new CTU agents each year, 1 of whom is accused of being/is a mole (whether intentionally or not) for the terrorists, or has other problems emotionally. Such lead ins in the scene could fit any of the above, so it doesnt tell us anything.
On Aurorasparrow- I fail to see much of the case here. Phayt accuses him of lurking, but considering he has posted since then pretty decently, its stupid to accuse him of such. He's an mtgnews player, who hasnt played here in a bit (Sin City mafia was your last game here, right AS?) and thus probably doesnt check the site as often. Its ironic in fact that phayt accuses him of lurking like such because Phayt is from MS, but then again, Phayt doesnt know AS isn't from MTGS.
Then Foo follows Rahl's lead in saying that he's fearmongering/fishing...i saw the "fishing" as more as him responding to big things as they came up, and fearmongering? I mean that's a really crumby scumtell, especially in the manner you propose he did it. I disagree on the likelyhood of a cult incidentally, though id never dismiss it out of hand (in the show, there are lots of groups, but they generally dont recruit people as they go on, but instead they are grouped from the start) but him suggesting it as a possibility is not fearmongering. It's setup speculation. Which is fine for part of early-game, though we don't want to slip into it too much (gaming the mod results in unhappy players).
PPE: Aurora, they mean it to say that for example a mafia often tries to spread suspicion around the town so as to make it easier to cause a mislynch. Cults and SKs divert a town's attention from mafia-hunting and thus suggesting their presence can draw the town away from mafia-tells. As ive said above, it doesnt really apply to you imo.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
About the scene, I can't imagine arim having scenes for every 10 minutes this game is going through, if he does, that's pretty absurd and crazy, and would be an impressive body of work. Still, Tilde's name in there doesnt really tell us anything. There was no way he was false name claiming anyhow, and unless the scene told us something scummy about the character, I think its a notell....
In show flavor, generally there's a bunch of new CTU agents each year, 1 of whom is accused of being/is a mole (whether intentionally or not) for the terrorists, or has other problems emotionally. Such lead ins in the scene could fit any of the above, so it doesnt tell us anything.
The case on Ande really holds no water. Much of it consists of personal views of one specific post. In addition, I find dont find Andelijah's defense to be an over defensive post.
Unvote, Vote Phayt
His 2nd post was an overreaction and seemed emotionally driven. He only went after Aurorasparrow for lurking when there were clearly multiple other lurkers.
ZDS, you seriously call me too agressive ? Me ? Just Wow. I really don't know where you are going with this, but I don't mind if you wish to waste your time. And since I will claim anyway, you could maybe think about using your argumentation skills on people who actually are scummy. Just maybe.
Also, I will not answer any questions about my claiming. Be patient. Am I making myself clear enough ?
I don't see why people are talking so much about vigging Tilde. Even if you are a vig, I think you need to consider the possibility of having more than one pro-town killer in the game. This is a large game after all, and given the setting, I don't think it's all too unlikely that we have more than one vig.
I consider the confirmation of a Jason Santos in the game to be a null-tell.
I'd like to put some pressure on Niv. Vote: Niv
I wonder if we'll get one of those every ten minutes.
Normally, when you put pressure on someone you say why.
also, the last post made by me, looking back didn't convey what I was going for. i ment sominthing like "I belive tilde is SK howver if on some off chance i am wrong, and he is town, I'd like to know how his role works so we can use it correctally"
Also, on the whole ande thing, i really dont see what anyne else sees.
Also UnVote ~. the real vig can hit him whenever they want.
Azrael's case: I ws going to react in a similar way as J-Effe (just without talking about the fun - whatever that was meant to be) - Proposition A was definitely playing into the fear of the town. Prop B, while absolutely expected in content, has a formulation that nicely supports the feeling that we're under time pressure.
The fact that Azrael basically OMGUS-votes is concerning.
I won't give in to Azrael's reputation here - he should at least explain his vote properly. Vote: Azrael
It's not contradictory. I agree with his scum list (or, to put it better : our scum lists happen to be similar), and don't agree with him calling J-Effe a neutral instead of the more general "scum" (more exactly, I find it strange and unsettling).
@Azrael: As eloquently worded as that post was, I can't help but wonder something: were you agreeing or disagreeing with my view of andelijah, stormblind, aurorasparrow, and/or phayt?
@Azrael: As eloquently worded as that post was, I can't help but wonder something: were you agreeing or disagreeing with my view of andelijah, stormblind, aurorasparrow, and/or phayt?
With your view of 'sparrow. Agreeing or disagreeing. One of those two.
Too add to that:
118-Scum don't falseclaim vig.
This bugs me. It's fairly easy to confirm vig...but at the same time w/ unknown mafia power it may also be just as easy for the mafia to fake it. Redirctor, multiple kill, claiming vig who has a limitation that is not known at first. Or maybe...SK.
Your response to massclaim seems...generic. Should we massclaim? 'No! the power roles!' Is a fairly common reaction from scum. You re-stated the logic that was already used 'catch the scum before they can come up with a false-claim' then spout generic logic.
Should we massclaim? No. This game has no night phases and mechanics which aren't understood so it's hard to differentiate possible and impossilbe roles and alignments. There's to much about this game we don't understand.
Scum don't falseclaim vig because the real vig will shoot them. It's an idiotic scum claim. It's quite possible that Tilde is just an idiot, but then the problem solves itself.
Early massclaims are very profitable for scum. Almost all games have a definite point where it is profitable for the town to massclaim, but that point is almost never day 1. My "generic" logic is the correct way of thinking about massclaims. But you agree with me nonetheless...
ZDS's FoS on Tilde is crap. Tilde's claim resolved the situation as much as it need be resolved, this is an entirely useless gesture. Also the FoS Az despite agreeing with his scum list. Vote: ZDS
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
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I would like to no9te that i agree with the case on ZDS, my remembrance of his play is that he was a solid player, and im not seeing any of that here. His play seems sloppier.
But, for the record, im prefering the AS case, which makes me question the andel wagon.
Hope thats clear enough for everyone on my thoughts atm.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I would like to no9te that i agree with the case on ZDS, my remembrance of his play is that he was a solid player, and im not seeing any of that here. His play seems sloppier.
But, for the record, im prefering the AS case, which makes me question the andel wagon.
Hope thats clear enough for everyone on my thoughts atm.
When me and Rafk vote for someone, it automatically becomes a wagon?
Az goes for inscrutability and comedy as both town and as scum. I haven't really got a read on him yet, but his opinions of other people in this game so far are reasonably close to mine.
Quote from jerubbaal »
ZDS's FoS on Tilde is crap. Tilde's claim resolved the situation as much as it need be resolved, this is an entirely useless gesture. Also the FoS Az despite agreeing with his scum list. Vote: ZDS
All FOS are useless gestures. At least that FOS has a point (e.g. to indicate he'd vote him but for the whole "he'll be vigged" thing). Voting people for their FOS usage seems like an attempt to just start something.
All FOS are useless gestures. At least that FOS has a point (e.g. to indicate he'd vote him but for the whole "he'll be vigged" thing). Voting people for their FOS usage seems like an attempt to just start something.
The Tilde issue had been resolved. Further speculation on Tilde as scum is idiotic. And I'm all for starting something. ZDS is funny as hell when he gets harassed.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I would like to take every person that is going out of their way to defend Andelijah, thus saving him from the burden of doing it himself(something that he has been doing a very poor job of thus far) and kick them in the head. You guys are doing the town as a whole a complete disservice.
Besides, it not as simple as saying 'he didn't do anything realy scummy'. People get votes for a myriad of reasons. Sometimes they just act so scummy that everyone notices it. Sadly, this isn't always the case. Sometimes, you play with a person as town a ton of times, and you get to know how they act as town. So clearly, when they act in a way that is radically different, it is highly obvious. This is the case now. Andelijah has been town in every game I've seen, and has always acted in the same fasion. Which is to say, not completely sarcastic and hostile, like he is being now.
And seriously, if you can't see the gross overdefensiveness of the post that I mentioned, then you need to go back to mafiaschool or something.
@cyan: Andelijah already adequetely defended the "case" on him (despite your saying that he had both a poor defense and an overdefense), though your desire to waste time has been noted. I'm also going to have to disagree with your philosophy of not speaking up against baseless cases; that seems like it would make it very easy for the scum to bandwagon lynch townies at will.
Maybe you should learn what the word baseless means. Hint: a case is not 'baseless' when multiple people agree with it. A case is baseless when you make it and literally the entire thread laughs you into the basement. A case is clearly not baseless when multiple people completely agree with it.
So anyway, you are wrong, he did not adequately defend himself. If anything, his poor attempt at a defense only made him look that much worse. Which is, as stated, why people shouldn't defend other people to begin with. If the case is baseless, Andelijah can say(and explain) why this is so for himself. Obviously the town isn't going to let someone get lynched on a completely baseless case.
So, if Jason Santos is really in the game, does that mean that David Yamizaki is also? That might turn out to be quite interesting, if we get details about non-canon characters through daily blurbs like that.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
If you're not sure if Azrael is being serious or not..then he's probably not(unless he's voting someone, he's always serious about that).
I can't get why Xyre keeps going on about Loran. Stop trying to active lurk, Xyre.
ZDS play has always been sloppy, but he's still generally a good judge of whether or not people are scum. I agree w/ CP's sentiment here, but, I think that Andelijah is a better place to look than ZDS.
@DYH : The thread was already 4 pages long at 40ppp when I was first able to post. Tell me, genius, how am I supposed to not look like I'm "rumbling into the thread".
Touchy, touchy. It probably sucks to get caught out so quickly, but you really should put a reign in on those emotions.
You manage to not "rumble into the thread" by not throwing suspicion all over the place when you do arrive.
Quote from ZDS »
Also, I made an error when I thought Ande had made a lapsus, but even without this lapsus, I still consider him scummy. There is no fence-sitting here. I only have one opinion about Andelijah, and that is that he is scummy (less so than J-Effe, though).
Yes, you're covering your butt, I already know this. "His posts were generic" is pretty weak, and then you proceed to defend him in the last sentence. While fence-sitting might not be the exact term I'm looking for, the post definitely feels wrong - you're saying you were wrong, then attacking him for something new, and then sticking up for his difficulty in defending himself in the span of a post.
Quote from ZDS »
Glad we agree. The game just wouldn't be as fun if I didn't have to constantly answer to crappy attacks.
This is what happens when you make scummy posts, you know.
Quote from ZDS »
In other news, TheFooFish is quite scummy. He doesn't make any sound, only posts to speak the obvious, and I'm not fond of his defense of Ande and wagonning of Aurora. Also, I just don't like the feel of his posts. FoS : TheFooFish. I'll give you some more consideration when I'm done with my previous targets.
Oh just keep tossing that dirt around - something's bound to stick, right?
The Tilde issue had been resolved. Further speculation on Tilde as scum is idiotic.
It is rarely idiotic to get someone's opinion out in the thread. Whatever Tilde turns out to be, it will be important to know later who defended him and who attacked him (and when they did that).
And I'm all for starting something. ZDS is funny as hell when he gets harassed.
These are the words of someone who is starting something for a reason other than "because I think X is scum".
I don't like ZDS' last paragraph of 197, because the attack on FooFish seems too much of an afterthought. However, his actual defence passes muster with me and I dislike the attacks on him from jerubbaal and Stormblind more.
postes 5-40: I don't get the indication that Phayt's 4 point response to CP was an overreaction. Think of how everyone reacted when Grak made his comments about our community. People have a sense of pride for where they consider home. Phayt defended his preferred playing site. I definately don't see his reaction as scummy.
First impression of Tilde is that he's pushing hard to get to night, especially when there's as good of a chance that a MK may or may not trigger night. Such a ruling is very subjective and can change for various reasons.
Posts 41-80: Dislike jerub's post 42 and JE4's post 48. Both come across as wagon votes and while hiding any real thought behind the vote by just saying "Wow" and "Please."
Dislike Niv's post 53: Ahh...6 votes in approx 25 mins and approx 25 votes? What? Are you suddenly taking SoI&F mafia as the standard where a lynch has to occur within 350 posts? I don't think CP was fearmongering at all.
Don't understand ande's post 58: Why are you trying to defend Tilde's actions with another game he was in? And just because he did that as town there does not preclude him from doing it here as scum.
Az's Prop A and B post 61: I can get on board with half of Prop A. I can agree to viging those who are lurking and not moving the thread forward, myself included. But I disagree with using a lynch on a lurker. Very much against Prop B, especially on D1 when I have no inclination to trust anyone beyond myself at this point when suggesting a claim order. Maybe revisit the mass claim option a few days down the road, but whole heartedly against it now.
Phayt's post 65: Comments about the speed and amount of votes on Tilde. Where's Niv with this fearmongering accusations now?
SB's post 68: This rubs me in ways that I can't explain. It has the feel of a "everyone calm down" post but people are just giving opinions to Az's proposal, I'm reading that people are starting to panic about the deadline. I'm getting the feeling of SB being too townie here.
Tilde's post 70: And an early claim. I don't understand why people love to jump the gun like this. I get the impression it's usually townies that want to claim quickly, so while that is a plus in my book for Tilde, claiming to be the vig, which can easily be disguised, offsets that plus.
Niv's post 76 and SB's post 79 are both poor reactions to Tilde jumping the gun. Niv states that he thought there'd be more discussion about the mass claim. Since there were only 3 comments on it, your statement of the obvious does nothing but make you appear to be doing something. Then SB's post of happy to "direct control of the vig" makes no sense. Having the vig be hidden, acting with caution and non-rb'able is a much better option than having him out in the open, town telling him where to go, and rb'able. And having the option of Lynch #2 doesn't mean much if the choice of who to kill hits a townie.
At this point, SB and Niv top my list of scummiest. Finding Niv scummy is par for the course, so I'm not sure if that says much about him. SB on the other hand definately seems to be off from how I normally remember him playing.
I'd like to finish catching up before I place any votes, so please bear with me on that front.
And with that, I'm caught up with the first two pages. I need to be going at this point but I'll try to get some more feelings down later today if at all possible.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I can't get why Xyre keeps going on about Loran. Stop trying to active lurk, Xyre.
Thanks, loran.
Quote from Cyan »
ZDS play has always been sloppy, but he's still generally a good judge of whether or not people are scum. I agree w/ CP's sentiment here, but, I think that Andelijah is a better place to look than ZDS.
Agreed. If I know anything from ZDS routinely screwing me over, he's a good judge of character. His posts read reasonably scummy, but this isn't abnormal, and I think he's likely town.
His defense passes muster? His defense consists entirely of
1)Sarcasm, then admits it was useless.
2)It's not scummy to agree with someone you think is scum (It is scummy to attack someone despite agreeing with their scumlist. If you think he's scum, his interests are not the best interests of the town, yet you still agree with them).
This wasn't a defense beyond admitting that I was right and then saying I was wrong when I wasn't. I'm floored that you view this as adequately answering the charges. This is either poor thinking or poor reading.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
@Mod, can we get a prod on Hawkeye? As fast as this game is going, i think every player ought to have posted at least once by this point.
@Cyan Re Xyre: I think he's just doing this to annoy me. Just ignore him.
@Cyan Re Ande: I'm sorry, ive looked over his posts and as ive stated before, I Don't see it. I've seen ONE part of his posts that strikes me as scummy (The first part about 160 where he explains his concern on votes of Tilde is a kind of stupid explanation...he could've just said, "Why are people voting a confirmed player" but instead looks like he's reaching for an explanation), but nothing else.
None of his other posts seem like overreacting scum to me, and as i've said before, the motivations for pressing him in the first place were nonexistant.
@Az re: Phayt- I kind of invited him here. He plays irc mafia with a bunch of us (Me, Ande, Suth etc) and he wanted to be in a game with me. So i told him when this one opened up.
@Vampyr, i appreciate you catching up, but unless you KNOW you can finish your recap and be up to speed within the next 2-3 RL days, please dont try and type it up and just type up your conclusions (even if you have to skim). Posts recapping with conclusions about things 3 pages back (on 40 ppp) don't help and essentially just make you an active lurker.
---More from me later.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I would have switched my vote, if Az weren't acting like a three-year old at the moment.
Quote from =Zasz »
Defensiveness? The fact that ande quotes all these contentless posts just shows everyone here, that there is no case. Ande did quiet a good job answering to nothing.
Quote from Zasz »
Pardon?
Is that the reason Azrael can't be nailed on a case? Because he doesn't articulate opinions to be quoted on?
That's me alright. Never say anything.
Quote from Zasz »
Attn Azrael:
What were the reasons for your votes?? Curious minds wish to know what they're dealing with...
Andelijah has been town in every game I've seen, and has always acted in the same fasion. Which is to say, not completely sarcastic and hostile, like he is being now.
And seriously, if you can't see the gross overdefensiveness of the post that I mentioned, then you need to go back to mafiaschool or something.
I have to agree with Rafk on jerubbaal - his last few posts have been pretty bad. And this
His defense passes muster? His defense consists entirely of
1)Sarcasm, then admits it was useless.
2)It's not scummy to agree with someone you think is scum (It is scummy to attack someone despite agreeing with their scumlist. If you think he's scum, his interests are not the best interests of the town, yet you still agree with them).
This wasn't a defense beyond admitting that I was right and then saying I was wrong when I wasn't. I'm floored that you view this as adequately answering the charges. This is either poor thinking or poor reading.
Has several logical flaws, but most importantly reeks of desperation. Vote jerubbaal
Perhaps you're not reading my post right. Its not that I don't think suspicion is warranted (I believe its wrong, but I see where its coming from), but I want to know, for those keeping their votes post claim, why. This has nothing to do with trying to clear Tilde, but rather have people still on the wagon explain their suspicions and why they think he's lying.
Glad you can pin down an actual accusation for me to respond to.
Interesting in what way? You prefer that those still voting Tilde not explain why?
Have you never played with J-Effe before?
*Rereads portion quoted.*
I think it went more like this:
"Az — Proposition A :*Blablabla
CP — We have up to 8 lynches anyway
Andelijah (less than a minute later) — We have 8 lynches"
So... you're accusing me of simulposting. Nor do I see how it is inside information.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Maybe. His thought could be that there's a higher probability that if he were counterclaimed he could argue his way through, considering the flavor of the game.
Still, that's not a terrible point. Unvote.
Hey, everybody, loran's the SK!
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Smart vigs don't counterclaim, they just shoot the imposter; that's why it is a terrible fake claim.
I like my vote where it is for now. I think lurking is an incredibly effective scumtactic in this time-driven setup, and I think lurking should be accordingly treated as a blatant scumtell. I find it likely that at least some of the scum are among players who are either lurking, active-lurking, or making short, mostly contentless posts.
[20:36] heartsloveBANG: in a church.
Saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place. - Maddox
“Spiked?”
“That’s right,” answered the CTU techie. “Whoever sent you the message attached a self-deletion program to it. All the data gets wiped out within seconds after the message is opened.”
Jack rubbed his chin. “Can it be traced?”
“Given time, probably. But anyone going far enough to spike the message in the first place probably has other ways of not being found.”
“Try anyway. Let me know as soon as you have anything.” The techie nodded, left the office and headed back down the stairs. Jack pressed a button on his intercom. “What do you have for me, guys?”
The line buzzed. “Three possible leads on David Yamizaki. The most likely one is the first one we found – this David Yamizaki is a drug lord who operates out of L.A. The FBI has been on him for a few months now, but all their leads keep ending up dead.”
“Any connections to anyone we know?”
“Not anyone I’m seeing. There is an address, though – it’s for an office complex in San Fernando.”
“All right. We’re gonna start there.”
“Do you want me to send a – “
“No. We’re already at reduced manpower because of the President’s trip. I’ll check it out myself. Send me the address and GPS.” Jack hung up the phone, threw on his jacket, and opened his office door. Stopping with one foot out the door, he turned around and opened his supply cabinet, drew his Sig Sauer from its perch on the top shelf, and slid it into the inside of his jacket.
The Chief of Staff met him as he reached the bottom of the stairs. “Jack, I need to talk to you about Jason Santos.”
Jack scowled. “You let me worry about Jason Santos. I’ll be back in half an hour.”
“Where are you going?”
“I’m following a lead!” he called over his shoulder.
12:11:05…
12:11:06…
12:11:07…
12:11:08…
Does this make him more or less likely to be town? The mod post was ambiguous.
[20:36] heartsloveBANG: in a church.
Saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place. - Maddox
Vote: ZDS
I agree with CP. Plus there's his rumbling into the thread FoSing three people and smacking a vote down on the biggest active wagon which was a nice touch. Then, when he realizes he's screwed up counting, makes a CYA post about Andelijah where he couldn't really get more on two sides of the fence.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I consider the confirmation of a Jason Santos in the game to be a null-tell.
I'd like to put some pressure on Niv.
Vote: Niv
I wonder if we'll get one of those every ten minutes.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
We should wait at least a little bit before nameclaiming becomes an option. Reasons:
1) If someone dies and their name isn't canon, we just avoided a potential mess.
2) Competent game designers generally try to avoid making mass nameclaim a viable strategy on day 1.
3) Lots of names for scum to hide under. One Jack Bauer.
In any event, we have plenty to gain and little to lose by simply waiting for more information. Something drastic like a mass nameclaim should wait until we know it will be beneficial.
Proposition: Azrael has a database-type ability where he can either verify rolenames, or gain information if he has somebody's rolenames. Town or scum, a powerful ability.
Good point. I really see no reasonable alternative to Tilde being a misguided townie; I can't imagine the SK or mafia being the first to claim.
I would like to know more about the mechanic of Tilde's ability, but if he really thinks it could compromise him I'm fine with trusting him for now.
On the other hand, it looks like theres something fishy about Jason Santos (according to arimnaes). Perhaps a townie with a secondary win condition?
If you're going to psychoanalyze people, DON'T DO IT IN THE OPEN. -.- Now DYH knows how to change his behavior.
J-effe: seriously, wtf? Do you have a good reason to claim today? If so, why not now?
With all the different factions in 24, I would be surprised NOT to find some sort of neutral or cult apparatus. It's a big dynamic of the show (not that I watch it a lot or anything).
so why didn't you respond to it?
For now, J-effe and ande are looking the scummiest but that could just be bad play. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Reasons:
Ridiculous amount of fishing here.
Manages to WIFOM, says he'll trusts Tilde, and yet tries to throw dirt on him all in the same passage.
Thing is, DYH tends to die to NK's regardless. He's just shifty that way.
Pushing for more information from somebody who already explained the time frame he will claim in.
Random speculation, the neutral thing is probable, the cult thing is fear mongering.
This is what triggered me the most, i get a strong feeling of inside knowledge on this part of the post.
Obviously Azrael is not going to reveal any role information. I'm simply saying: be wary of stating your rolename.
Suggesting a secondary win condition is throwing dirt?
I wouldn't know anything about that. I haven't played mafia here for a long time.
Well, why not?
I don't see how you can say one is probable and the other isn't. As far as I can tell, people tend to work in groups in 24. The classic neutral group is a cult.
In EVERY game of mafia I have ever played, on Day 1 a couple of townies make noobish looking posts, then when talk stagnates people get bored and lynch them. Every time.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
I'll remember that next time I get votes: don't defend myself.
The lack of actual accusations makes me even more confident you're not.
I guess I'll have to be more obviously sarcastic next time...
Last time I checked, "It sounded insincere" is a pretty baseless accusation.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
is correct.
I'm trying to remember when the last time I saw scum ande was for comparison. Care to remind me ande?
vote andelijah
See, I can be sarcastic too, but the thing isn't that you defended yourself, but rather that you made a big deal of reacting to every little thing and trying to blow everything out of the water. There's a difference between defence and over-defensiveness, and it's the way loran tends to get lynched early as scum a lot. Ask him to tell you about it.
As for Aurorasparrow, I think Stormblind might be on to something:
This is just more baseless fearmongering.
Unvote Phayt
Vote Aurorasparrow
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
I tend to get lynched a lot because i get caught for something not bad, and then am terrible defending myself and just make a bajillion scum tells when defending myself for a point thats extremely minor.
_---------------------------------------
Other things that have happened since ive been gone:
The ande wagon, like i said before, i don't see it. The two points that got the wagon started that i can see are:
1. that he seemed to defend Tilde irrationally from the start, which while unusual doesnt seem like scum trying to defend a falling townie to me.
2. that one of his posts didnt sound right to some people.
--------------------------------------------------------------
#2 of these reasons is well...kind of a silly point...how can anyone defend themselves from that? I think ande's fluster about that point is genuine.
#1 is indeed curious, but as i've said seems too obvious for it to be scum defending a wagoned townie. Just seems like he's too focused on defending him.
---------------------------------------------------------------
About the scene, I can't imagine arim having scenes for every 10 minutes this game is going through, if he does, that's pretty absurd and crazy, and would be an impressive body of work. Still, Tilde's name in there doesnt really tell us anything. There was no way he was false name claiming anyhow, and unless the scene told us something scummy about the character, I think its a notell....
In show flavor, generally there's a bunch of new CTU agents each year, 1 of whom is accused of being/is a mole (whether intentionally or not) for the terrorists, or has other problems emotionally. Such lead ins in the scene could fit any of the above, so it doesnt tell us anything.
----------------------------------------------------------
On Aurorasparrow- I fail to see much of the case here. Phayt accuses him of lurking, but considering he has posted since then pretty decently, its stupid to accuse him of such. He's an mtgnews player, who hasnt played here in a bit (Sin City mafia was your last game here, right AS?) and thus probably doesnt check the site as often. Its ironic in fact that phayt accuses him of lurking like such because Phayt is from MS, but then again, Phayt doesnt know AS isn't from MTGS.
Then Foo follows Rahl's lead in saying that he's fearmongering/fishing...i saw the "fishing" as more as him responding to big things as they came up, and fearmongering? I mean that's a really crumby scumtell, especially in the manner you propose he did it. I disagree on the likelyhood of a cult incidentally, though id never dismiss it out of hand (in the show, there are lots of groups, but they generally dont recruit people as they go on, but instead they are grouped from the start) but him suggesting it as a possibility is not fearmongering. It's setup speculation. Which is fine for part of early-game, though we don't want to slip into it too much (gaming the mod results in unhappy players).
PPE: Aurora, they mean it to say that for example a mafia often tries to spread suspicion around the town so as to make it easier to cause a mislynch. Cults and SKs divert a town's attention from mafia-hunting and thus suggesting their presence can draw the town away from mafia-tells. As ive said above, it doesnt really apply to you imo.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Yep, loran's scum.
The entire post is pretty silly stuff.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Unvote, Vote Phayt
His 2nd post was an overreaction and seemed emotionally driven. He only went after Aurorasparrow for lurking when there were clearly multiple other lurkers.
Also, I will not answer any questions about my claiming. Be patient. Am I making myself clear enough ?
Normally, when you put pressure on someone you say why.
also, the last post made by me, looking back didn't convey what I was going for. i ment sominthing like "I belive tilde is SK howver if on some off chance i am wrong, and he is town, I'd like to know how his role works so we can use it correctally"
Also, on the whole ande thing, i really dont see what anyne else sees.
Also UnVote ~. the real vig can hit him whenever they want.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Pfffffffft.
Think about it.
Mm mm mm.
I love my vote.
Mm hrmmm....yeah.
With your view of 'sparrow. Agreeing or disagreeing. One of those two.
Were you invited here specifically for this game?? Curious minds wish to know what they're dealing with...
Scum don't falseclaim vig because the real vig will shoot them. It's an idiotic scum claim. It's quite possible that Tilde is just an idiot, but then the problem solves itself.
Early massclaims are very profitable for scum. Almost all games have a definite point where it is profitable for the town to massclaim, but that point is almost never day 1. My "generic" logic is the correct way of thinking about massclaims. But you agree with me nonetheless...
ZDS's FoS on Tilde is crap. Tilde's claim resolved the situation as much as it need be resolved, this is an entirely useless gesture. Also the FoS Az despite agreeing with his scum list. Vote: ZDS
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
But, for the record, im prefering the AS case, which makes me question the andel wagon.
Hope thats clear enough for everyone on my thoughts atm.
When me and Rafk vote for someone, it automatically becomes a wagon?
Sweet.
All FOS are useless gestures. At least that FOS has a point (e.g. to indicate he'd vote him but for the whole "he'll be vigged" thing). Voting people for their FOS usage seems like an attempt to just start something.
The Tilde issue had been resolved. Further speculation on Tilde as scum is idiotic. And I'm all for starting something. ZDS is funny as hell when he gets harassed.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Besides, it not as simple as saying 'he didn't do anything realy scummy'. People get votes for a myriad of reasons. Sometimes they just act so scummy that everyone notices it. Sadly, this isn't always the case. Sometimes, you play with a person as town a ton of times, and you get to know how they act as town. So clearly, when they act in a way that is radically different, it is highly obvious. This is the case now. Andelijah has been town in every game I've seen, and has always acted in the same fasion. Which is to say, not completely sarcastic and hostile, like he is being now.
And seriously, if you can't see the gross overdefensiveness of the post that I mentioned, then you need to go back to mafiaschool or something.
FOS: CYAN
So anyway, you are wrong, he did not adequately defend himself. If anything, his poor attempt at a defense only made him look that much worse. Which is, as stated, why people shouldn't defend other people to begin with. If the case is baseless, Andelijah can say(and explain) why this is so for himself. Obviously the town isn't going to let someone get lynched on a completely baseless case.
Anyway, I still like my vote.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
If you're not sure if Azrael is being serious or not..then he's probably not(unless he's voting someone, he's always serious about that).
I can't get why Xyre keeps going on about Loran. Stop trying to active lurk, Xyre.
ZDS play has always been sloppy, but he's still generally a good judge of whether or not people are scum. I agree w/ CP's sentiment here, but, I think that Andelijah is a better place to look than ZDS.
Touchy, touchy. It probably sucks to get caught out so quickly, but you really should put a reign in on those emotions.
You manage to not "rumble into the thread" by not throwing suspicion all over the place when you do arrive.
Yes, you're covering your butt, I already know this. "His posts were generic" is pretty weak, and then you proceed to defend him in the last sentence. While fence-sitting might not be the exact term I'm looking for, the post definitely feels wrong - you're saying you were wrong, then attacking him for something new, and then sticking up for his difficulty in defending himself in the span of a post.
This is what happens when you make scummy posts, you know.
Oh just keep tossing that dirt around - something's bound to stick, right?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
It is rarely idiotic to get someone's opinion out in the thread. Whatever Tilde turns out to be, it will be important to know later who defended him and who attacked him (and when they did that).
These are the words of someone who is starting something for a reason other than "because I think X is scum".
I don't like ZDS' last paragraph of 197, because the attack on FooFish seems too much of an afterthought. However, his actual defence passes muster with me and I dislike the attacks on him from jerubbaal and Stormblind more.
vote jerubbaal
postes 5-40: I don't get the indication that Phayt's 4 point response to CP was an overreaction. Think of how everyone reacted when Grak made his comments about our community. People have a sense of pride for where they consider home. Phayt defended his preferred playing site. I definately don't see his reaction as scummy.
First impression of Tilde is that he's pushing hard to get to night, especially when there's as good of a chance that a MK may or may not trigger night. Such a ruling is very subjective and can change for various reasons.
Posts 41-80: Dislike jerub's post 42 and JE4's post 48. Both come across as wagon votes and while hiding any real thought behind the vote by just saying "Wow" and "Please."
Dislike Niv's post 53: Ahh...6 votes in approx 25 mins and approx 25 votes? What? Are you suddenly taking SoI&F mafia as the standard where a lynch has to occur within 350 posts? I don't think CP was fearmongering at all.
Don't understand ande's post 58: Why are you trying to defend Tilde's actions with another game he was in? And just because he did that as town there does not preclude him from doing it here as scum.
Az's Prop A and B post 61: I can get on board with half of Prop A. I can agree to viging those who are lurking and not moving the thread forward, myself included. But I disagree with using a lynch on a lurker. Very much against Prop B, especially on D1 when I have no inclination to trust anyone beyond myself at this point when suggesting a claim order. Maybe revisit the mass claim option a few days down the road, but whole heartedly against it now.
Phayt's post 65: Comments about the speed and amount of votes on Tilde. Where's Niv with this fearmongering accusations now?
SB's post 68: This rubs me in ways that I can't explain. It has the feel of a "everyone calm down" post but people are just giving opinions to Az's proposal, I'm reading that people are starting to panic about the deadline. I'm getting the feeling of SB being too townie here.
Tilde's post 70: And an early claim. I don't understand why people love to jump the gun like this. I get the impression it's usually townies that want to claim quickly, so while that is a plus in my book for Tilde, claiming to be the vig, which can easily be disguised, offsets that plus.
Niv's post 76 and SB's post 79 are both poor reactions to Tilde jumping the gun. Niv states that he thought there'd be more discussion about the mass claim. Since there were only 3 comments on it, your statement of the obvious does nothing but make you appear to be doing something. Then SB's post of happy to "direct control of the vig" makes no sense. Having the vig be hidden, acting with caution and non-rb'able is a much better option than having him out in the open, town telling him where to go, and rb'able. And having the option of Lynch #2 doesn't mean much if the choice of who to kill hits a townie.
At this point, SB and Niv top my list of scummiest. Finding Niv scummy is par for the course, so I'm not sure if that says much about him. SB on the other hand definately seems to be off from how I normally remember him playing.
I'd like to finish catching up before I place any votes, so please bear with me on that front.
And with that, I'm caught up with the first two pages. I need to be going at this point but I'll try to get some more feelings down later today if at all possible.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Thanks, loran.
Agreed. If I know anything from ZDS routinely screwing me over, he's a good judge of character. His posts read reasonably scummy, but this isn't abnormal, and I think he's likely town.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1)Sarcasm, then admits it was useless.
2)It's not scummy to agree with someone you think is scum (It is scummy to attack someone despite agreeing with their scumlist. If you think he's scum, his interests are not the best interests of the town, yet you still agree with them).
This wasn't a defense beyond admitting that I was right and then saying I was wrong when I wasn't. I'm floored that you view this as adequately answering the charges. This is either poor thinking or poor reading.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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@Cyan Re Xyre: I think he's just doing this to annoy me. Just ignore him.
@Cyan Re Ande: I'm sorry, ive looked over his posts and as ive stated before, I Don't see it. I've seen ONE part of his posts that strikes me as scummy (The first part about 160 where he explains his concern on votes of Tilde is a kind of stupid explanation...he could've just said, "Why are people voting a confirmed player" but instead looks like he's reaching for an explanation), but nothing else.
None of his other posts seem like overreacting scum to me, and as i've said before, the motivations for pressing him in the first place were nonexistant.
@Az re: Phayt- I kind of invited him here. He plays irc mafia with a bunch of us (Me, Ande, Suth etc) and he wanted to be in a game with me. So i told him when this one opened up.
@Vampyr, i appreciate you catching up, but unless you KNOW you can finish your recap and be up to speed within the next 2-3 RL days, please dont try and type it up and just type up your conclusions (even if you have to skim). Posts recapping with conclusions about things 3 pages back (on 40 ppp) don't help and essentially just make you an active lurker.
---More from me later.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
@Loran: Go read some other game where Andelijah was tonw(Kung Fu, Rorouni() and tell me that he's acting anything like he did in those games.
That's me alright. Never say anything.
Of course they do.
...
:love::hifive:
I have to agree with Rafk on jerubbaal - his last few posts have been pretty bad. And this
Has several logical flaws, but most importantly reeks of desperation. Vote jerubbaal
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
:symb:= zzz
Then what does it sound like?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia