This debate is useless. Absolutionis would not include a suicidal PR. At worst it's a null-tell. At best, it looks like a heavy-handed "Ooo, lynch the orc" ploy from Absolutionis, which probably means he's twon.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Being cunning, to me, is a fairly common attitude amongst Orks, obviously we disagree on that, though. We probably shouldn't go much further into this for fear of laying out a plausible false claim for him, if he is scum, but I see a fair few circumstances that would allow Orks and other races to work together.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
GR and the other who asked: The issue with voting MMoD is that the purpose of random voting is to establish potential connections. You can't do that if your vote is on someone who any connection to means nothing. Its just posting for the purpose of not lurking. Same with self random voting and die roll random voting, as neither of those builds connections. Its probably even worse then deliberately not random voting, as that gets better reactions.
Also, don't Orks have that telepathic thing about strength in numbers or whatever? I remember reading about it in a vs. thread.
Jodo's play is disconcerting, and if Sobek ends up scum it makes him a lot more likely to be wavering on bussing a partner.
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To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.
@Sobek: You lie about first post. I dont like liers and people who foolin' about. Is you lier townie or lier scum?
Quote from JY »
Sobek's defence looks like WIFOM to me.
I agrees.
Quote from Turbo »
OMGUS VOTE: ea er refta, don't rush me!
Sobek strikes me as someone who's trying to apply their real-life mafia experience (ie sarcasm, which doesn't work well online) to a game without fitting into the "normal" jokevoting tradition. And in turn, people voting for him and his own defense seem to be taking things rather seriously as well ~_~
Quote from MBP »
I don't see how that is senseless. He was doing something he had forgotten to do earlier.
I really don't see why people are taking it so seriously. I was forced to claim for something similar in newb 18. Point being: Don't try to see anything in random voting.
Yous was scummy. Yous was not a good townie.
Quote from Jerubbaal »
I hate missing random voting.
Vote: JodoYodo - It's not nice to pick on silly little newbs. Opportunism FTW.
Why yous not vote me? Cause I is a townie?
Quote from JY »
I didn't expect Sobek to be scummy in the random phase. Which is why I glazed over it initially.
Bad Jodo. Yous bad. Yous use "I reread" excuse. Yous and Laundry Man. FOS: JY and Laundry Man.
Quote from JY »
From a flavour point of view, I don't see how Orks can possibly be aligned with town. There's further points I'd like to make but it'd be speculating on the game setup.
But I is a townie. What you say, I don't care. I is a townie!
Quote from JY »
Delving into reasons why Orks could be scum is easy; they're mindless killing machines. To paraphrase wiki, they're barbaric and inhumanly violent. They barely manage to organize themselves amongst each other to fight, and often fight each other.
Why I doubt Orks are mafia? Partly because of the above reason, and partly because of other flavour reasons that would be delving into speculation about the setup.
I is not "barbaricy an inhumicaly vilent" I is very smart. I fix junk!
Quote from JY »
I had skimmed Sobek's posts because we were in the random phase, but after MMoD helpfully capitalized the part about the fact that the jokes were over, I went back and actually fully read his posts.
Quote from Pod »
Orks are distinctly not mindless. They're not exceptionally clever, but they're easily as smart as a stupid human. If you gave an Ork the choice between fighting an entire chaos legion with some imperial guardsmen or by himself, he'd pick siding with the guardsmen. And the amount of times they are described as 'cunning' is ridiculous.
I is very clever. I is a smart townie! Give me stuffs and I fix!
Quote from CP »
Still liking Sobek over JY, here. The move from one wagon to the other was useful in terms of reactions, but let's get back to the one who's actually likely to be scum, here, okay?
Both is not good people.
Quote from JY »
I think, in general, Orks are certainly not 'kunning'. Siding with humans is not Orky. Causing mayhem and exploiting violence is Orky. Orks were never aligned with Imperials in any of the campaigns involving Chaos (Medusa V, Eye of Terror, etc). The one clan you mentioned earlier is the only exception, and I have reasons to believe that iLord is not from that clan. Again, I can explain why, but we're getting further and further into flavour speculation.
I is a townie! I is not stupid! I fix stuff! I is smart! I do no mayhem or vilence! I is a imperim ork!
Mores stuff once I reread. So fars, JodoYodo and Sobek ares both bad people. Mes reread. Yous guys no post.
You're setting up a lose-lose situation against me. If Sobek is scum, then I'm bussing! If Sobek isn't scum, then I'm bandwagoning!
Agreed. Just because it's easy to wagon JY here doesn't mean that the wagon has any real merit, for reasons exactly like this one. It can't be an equal tell to both do something and not do something. This wagon smells of people trying to be on the wagon, which is far scummier than anything JY has done.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
@Sobek: You lie about first post. I dont like liers and people who foolin' about.
Agreed.
Both is not good people.
While this may or may not be true (JY has been aggressive, which could mean any number of things), I still think that Sobek has the worse position, and is much more likely to be scum.
The "Orks are scum but not mafia" thing he said is a strong indication of a town role. I think.
Generally, if someone makes a statement like that I usually believe the opposite, as in "This guy is scummy, but not in my scum group." In this case, however, it's a non-tell, since he's trying to make that assumption based on flavor speculation, and I don't think that indicates alignment either way.
@Sobek, I'm prety sur tat JodoYodo was jking round.
Or ar you jking? You seemd seriousishsh in ur firz post, but then you turn all jokish after poeple say that you ar joking. Seems kind of weirdish. Vote: Sobek
Iz this your fizrt game?
If you're going to post like an Ork, post like one. Not like some drunk plunking at a keyboard with his elbow.
It doesn't make sense for scum to have a dead give-away towards their alignment, however, if the Orks are indeed scum. I don't see this as an issue of how Orks can be aligned with the town, so much as an issue of how they could be aligned with the mafia.
And the mod has license to make roles how he likes.
Delving into reasons why Orks could be scum is easy; they're mindless killing machines. To paraphrase wiki, they're barbaric and inhumanly violent. They barely manage to organize themselves amongst each other to fight, and often fight each other.
Why I doubt Orks are mafia? Partly because of the above reason, and partly because of other flavour reasons that would be delving into speculation about the setup.
Orks are cunning, but not too intelligent over all. They have a specialized intelligence, that being how to make different vehicles run in any way possible. It's similiar to football players. They're not Einstein, but somehow they manage to memorize, understand and execute plays from a playbook the size of a city telephone book based on a few keywords.
Ok, that's it for me for now. I need to step away and come back to re-examine posts for tells. This post was just to get me caught up on general topics people have been talking about.
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The argument against me seems to hinge on one of the lines in my second post.
If we look at that post...
Quite serious. Quite serious.
Yet, it looks like I am surrounded by enemies. The time for jokes is over. Vote: StormBlind
All my papers should be in order this time...
You'll see the second line goes with the first. I was responding to this,
Quote from andelijah »
Is this a serious vote?
Obviously, my first line is responding. But the line in question, "The time for jokes is over." is mocking andelijah's confusion.
Likewise, my vote for StormBlind is pretty clearly a joke. Read my last line (referring to the vote) then read Absolutionis' post,
Quote from Absolutionis »
Sobek seemingly tried to vote but fails to file the correct paperwork and the voting machine rejected his vote. Please bold your entire vote if you wish to vote.
Concerning other matters, I wasn't particularly suspicious of iLord previously, and the banter concerning Orks hasn't really persuaded me. Yet...
Quote from iLord »
@Sobek: You lie about first post. I dont like liers and people who foolin' about. Is you lier townie or lier scum?
False dilemma much?
Seems kind of weirdish. Vote: Sobek
Seems odd that you were so eager to cast the very first vote for me before any conjecture, merely because something struck you as "kind of weirdish." Poor reason to vote I say.
Your also too trigger happy with the "I is a townie!" bit.
Quote from iLord »
Im not faking, I is a townie! It isnt a fake. I is a townie!
Quote from iLord »
I is an townie. We not stupid We make stuff work. I is a townie!
Quote from iLord »
I not stupid I is a townie!
Quote from iLord »
Cause I is a townie?
Quote from iLord »
But I is a townie. What you say, I don't care. I is a townie!
Quote from iLord »
I is very clever. I is a smart townie! Give me stuffs and I fix!
Quote from iLord »
I is a smart townie!
Quote from iLord »
I is a townie! I is not stupid! I fix stuff! I is smart! I do no mayhem or vilence! I is a imperim ork!
Twelve times in six posts. That seems a disproportionate response to simple conjecture on the nature of Orks in the game. Notice how five of the above are in his last post, after the discussion about Orks got particularly heated.
This Ork speech doesn't convince me either. It seem like a poor ploy to deflect suspicion along with the continuous bombardment of "I is townie!"
This also strikes me as exceptionally odd:
Quote from iLord »
Quote from Jerubbaal »
I hate missing random voting.
Vote: JodoYodo - It's not nice to pick on silly little newbs. Opportunism FTW.
Why yous not vote me? Cause I is a townie?
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but is iLord really asking why Jerubbal didn't vote for him when voting on opportunism? For picking on "silly little newbs"?
I got called for "trying too hard" and I am going to have to do the same for you iLord. FOS: iLord
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Quote from Cochese »
Do threads in this forum ever not get hijacked by the magical invisible hand of the market guys?
It was your amazing persuasion skills that pushed him over the edge.
I get the sense that you're trying to be sarcastic, but I honestly have no idea what you're trying to be sarcastic about, considering that up to that point, I had said basically nothing about JY. So are you just being bitter about me killing your wagon?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I get the sense that you're trying to be sarcastic, but I honestly have no idea what you're trying to be sarcastic about, considering that up to that point, I had said basically nothing about JY.
Still liking Sobek over JY, here. The move from one wagon to the other was useful in terms of reactions, but let's get back to the one who's actually likely to be scum, here, okay?
That, and your other post where you basically say "lets vote Sobek now guys."
More of a joke than sarcasm.
So are you just being bitter about me killing your wagon?
I would hardly call it "mine" considering I'm not on it, nor do I plan on getting on it.
I agreed with Stormblind on my reread before he posted. Even more so after OMGUSing.
Vote Sobek
Mild FOS the 3 who voted MMoD for avoiding random voting by voting confirmed townie. That is not good (I can copy paste my standard rant about this later for those who care, similar to "random" self voting).
The point about Orc speak is valid, I'd wait to pass judgement until a bit later though.
<--- Is having laptop issues + finals so posting may be sporadic (ie 1ce every couple days).
First, agreement without any real reason. Fosing 3 people for random votes, seemingly trying to hard to me. Then lastly, the last part seems like an excuse to lurk.
Maybe nothing, but i feel its something.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Seems odd that you were so eager to cast the very first vote for me before any conjecture, merely because something struck you as "kind of weirdish." Poor reason to vote I say.
Good reason. Weirdish = scummiest at time. You iz lying. First post = sinceeer. Nothing you can say to changz past.
Quote from Sobek »
Twelve times in six posts. That seems a disproportionate response to simple conjecture on the nature of Orks in the game. Notice how five of the above are in his last post, after the discussion about Orks got particularly heated.
This Ork speech doesn't convince me either. It seem like a poor ploy to deflect suspicion along with the continuous bombardment of "I is townie!"
But I is a townie! What else Orks like me say? Plus, Orks discussion don't get heated. I iz a good Ork!
Quote from Sobek »
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but is iLord really asking why Jerubbal didn't vote for him when voting on opportunism? For picking on "silly little newbs"?
I got called for "trying too hard" and I am going to have to do the same for you iLord. FOS: iLord
??? Hows I try to hard? I ask Jerub why he attackz JY and not me, cause I attakz you too! ???
Quote from YuanTi »
All Orks do is say "we iz" instead of "we is".
Ah...thanks I waz a bad Ork.
Half a post readyz from reread! Morz to come peoplez!
That means nothing, one way or the other. This restriction is just about exactly the same as arim's pirate restriction in Court.
Using post restrictions to make any kind of determination of alignment is bad strategy, even if the post restriction is that you have to say "I am evil scum" in every post.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm still quite happy with Armlx. Why? He has two posts. Here they are.
Notice, the false dilemma situation. If sobeks scum, jodo's bussing. If Sobek's town, Jodo's Bandwagoning. A no win scenario, and scummy.
Second is this
First, agreement without any real reason. Fosing 3 people for random votes, seemingly trying to hard to me. Then lastly, the last part seems like an excuse to lurk.
Maybe nothing, but i feel its something.
I could definitely go with this. I don't like armlx's lack of original thought, nor his effort to get on the JY wagon. The fact that he ignores Sobek's wagon until after someone (me) notes that people are trying to hard to be on JY's wagon, and then immediately gets off of it and hopes no one notices, is just icing on the cake.
I'm actually very comfortable with this read, and am willing to extract a claim. This day is moving quite well, IMO.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I just have a hunch. Going after a confirmed townie seems slightly scummy. Please defend yourself, I'm sure its nothing but I can't shake it.
Sobek is no kidding. See blck workds?
Quote from SB »
vote Sobek! Something about you seems off...
No reason? No jokeses? FOS: Stormblind!
Quite serious. Quite serious.
Yet, it looks like I am surrounded by enemies. The time for jokes is over. Vote: StormBlind
All my papers should be in order this time...
Yous lies! Yous OMGUS! Yous scummy!
Quote from JY »
Hate to metagame here, but iLord in the signup thread stated that he didn't have much experience with the 40k flavour. In addition to this, the way he's speaking is typical, classic Orkspeak as portrayed in the 40k universe.
What yous try to say?
Quote from JY »
I agree, which is why I think he's not faking it.
Why yous "hate to metagame?"
Quote from Sobek »
If you look at my first post it was intentionally over the top. The sarcasm is there is you care to look for it. I think you'll find that my first post lines up tone-wise with my second; there isn't actually a 180 there. I continue the fake-serious tone into the second post, but with clear indicators that I am indeed being sarcastic.
Why not vote me here? Opprutitunict much?
Quote from Laundry Man »
EBWODP:
Unvote,
Sarnath'd
Oops, you werez sanrthied. UNFOS: Laundry Man.
Quote from Turbo »
Sobek strikes me as someone who's trying to apply their real-life mafia experience (ie sarcasm, which doesn't work well online) to a game without fitting into the "normal" jokevoting tradition. And in turn, people voting for him and his own defense seem to be taking things rather seriously as well ~_~
No sarcasm! He iz a lier!
Quote from AH »
I get that you see preying on the weakest with some immediacy as highly scummy, Axl2, Pod. But really now, we're about to kill the person who seems scummiest, who did the worst job of seeming town, who's play was weakest. We're gonna prey on them.
Thatz a scarry way to say it...
Quote from Vamp »
If you're going to post like an Ork, post like one. Not like some drunk plunking at a keyboard with his elbow.
I sorryz. I waz a bad Ork!
Quote from Vamp »
Orks are cunning, but not too intelligent over all. They have a specialized intelligence, that being how to make different vehicles run in any way possible. It's similiar to football players. They're not Einstein, but somehow they manage to memorize, understand and execute plays from a playbook the size of a city telephone book based on a few keywords.
Thatz me! I make stuffz workz!
I going to look at Armix an JodoYodo very closley! More stillz to come. (When I look through thread, I see one thingz at a time!)
I am glad you abandoned the "I am townies!" rap, but I am not sure if I like the accusations of lies any more.
Quote from iLord »
Yous lies! Yous OMGUS! Yous scummy!
If you think my post was OMGUS (which it is) then why does that make me scummy?
Quote from iLord »
Why not vote me here? Opprutitunict much?
This doesn't make sense. I didn't mention you in that post, and I would only be opportunistic if I had done something towards you, which I clearly hadn't.
Quote from iLord »
No sarcasm! He iz a lier!
Look at that, there we go again with the lies. If thats your best argument against me, I think you might want to find a position that is firmly grounded in actual evidence rather than on baseless conjecture.
Quote from iLord »
Sobek is no kidding. See blck workds?
If I had actually made that mistake, I would be proclaiming it up and down this thread because it would absolve me of any wrong-doing. The fact I haven't means it wasn't a mistake. It was an intentional jooke.
Orks were never that subtle though. (That last line was a joke. See. Its in writing this time. I just need a notary and I'll be set.)
I will, however, agree with you that,
Quote from iLord »
Thatz a scarry way to say it...
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Quote from Cochese »
Do threads in this forum ever not get hijacked by the magical invisible hand of the market guys?
If you think my post was OMGUS (which it is) then why does that make me scummy?
Yous voted for bad reason.
Quote from Sobek »
This doesn't make sense. I didn't mention you in that post, and I would only be opportunistic if I had done something towards you, which I clearly hadn't.
Yous quoted me. Look back.
Quote from Sobek »
Look at that, there we go again with the lies. If thats your best argument against me, I think you might want to find a position that is firmly grounded in actual evidence rather than on baseless conjecture.
Look at what yous posted and tellz me that you were joking. "It's just a hunch but I can't shake it off." Yous lies!
Quote from Sobek »
If I had actually made that mistake, I would be proclaiming it up and down this thread because it would absolve me of any wrong-doing. The fact I haven't means it wasn't a mistake. It was an intentional jooke.
Orks were never that subtle though. (That last line was a joke. See. Its in writing this time. I just need a notary and I'll be set.)
The defend yousselvez seems jokesese, but "I can't shake it off" and "hunch" are genuinein. Yous lies!
Regardless, it still wouldn't make sense for me to vote for you, you were just asking for clarification. Voting for you then wouldn't have been the ultimate in defensive postures, so I think the fact I didn't lends legitimacy to my cause.
Yous voted for bad reason.
Two problems I see with this. First, you were extremely eager to vote for me based on a hunch, which I think would qualify as a bad reason to post. Second, you can't have a bad reason to joke vote.
Look at what yous posted and tellz me that you were joking. "It's just a hunch but I can't shake it off." Yous lies!
Again with the lies. I do think that qualifies as a joke, especially if you read the entire post.
The defend yousselvez seems jokesese, but "I can't shake it off" and "hunch" are genuinein. Yous lies!
"Lies! Lies! Lies!" I understand now; iLord is actually a cybork with a broken record player in his chest.
I was struck with something while posting. iLord makes repeated reference to his ability to fix things. That seems overly specific to general ork talk. Perhaps a confession of an ability?
Even if it is, it doesn't change my analysis too much. It could easily be a scum ability or a townie ability that he speaks off.
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Quote from Cochese »
Do threads in this forum ever not get hijacked by the magical invisible hand of the market guys?
Two problems I see with this. First, you were extremely eager to vote for me based on a hunch, which I think would qualify as a bad reason to post. Second, you can't have a bad reason to joke vote.
I haz good reasonz! You haz no reasonz!
Quote from Sobek »
I was struck with something while posting. iLord makes repeated reference to his ability to fix things. That seems overly specific to general ork talk. Perhaps a confession of an ability?
I cantz fix yourz fishing rod. Super Duper Vote: Sobek!
But this is really the only point I agree with you on so far. Claiming to know that he was being serious in the beginning when he denies it and the posts themselves are at best ambiguous is a poor point.
But this is really the only point I agree with you on so far. Claiming to know that he was being serious in the beginning when he denies it and the posts themselves are at best ambiguous is a poor point.
Butz it lookz soo obviovis! "I've got a hunch, but I can't shake it" canz not be sarcstic! After looking again, the "defend yousself" seems jokeesese, but I canz see how he iz not serious about a hunch!.
I cantz fix yourz fishing rod. Super Duper Vote: Sobek!
Serious lulz!
Very so-so on Sobek's defence. I'm going to stick to my guns for now since Sobek hasn't said much convincing me otherwise. His defence is pretty muddled and after a second re-read I'm still not sure I completely follow.
Regarding armlx, I'm very weirded out by the random voting issue. He's certainly behaving differently than what I've read of him in other games.
And what's this pirate PR that CP mentions from Court Mafia?
Very so-so on Sobek's defence. I'm going to stick to my guns for now since Sobek hasn't said much convincing me otherwise. His defence is pretty muddled and after a second re-read I'm still not sure I completely follow
I find it odd you keep telling me you don't understand but don't point out any areas of uncertainty. I certainly can't clarify if I don't know what is confusing.
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Quote from Cochese »
Do threads in this forum ever not get hijacked by the magical invisible hand of the market guys?
There was a role in the game that strongly indicated the pirate as scum (and the pirate was, in fact, scum), so yes.
The point, however, is that the pirate-speak restriction was fake. arim made up the restriction precisely to ward off suspicion that he might be scum purely because of his identity. Which is what's happening here with iLord: Orks are apparently obvious bad guys who could likely be lynched on sight, but the posting restriction (faked or not) is forcing people to reconsider their preconceptions. And that's fine, as long as no one goes so far as to say that he can't be scum, because he can.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
It was a role in which he had to post in pirate-speak.
Nah nah nah. As cp says, arim made up the PR. Even though there was a town role which was told to look out for pirates, everyone was like "nah, the mod wouldn't give someone a post restriction that gave them away as scum". It was brilliant.
The point is- don't trust PRs.
In any event, I don't believe orks necessarily = scum in this game, but as cp says, don't automatically trust iLord because of the PR either.
I really didn't like Sobek's fishing expedition there (and iLord scores points for his line on the fishing rod... get it, line on the fishing rod? :laugh:), but I happen to believe what Sobek says about the joking and the sarcasm and such, so- push.
I'm not sure where the pressure against JodoYodo went, I quite liked that push so far as it went.
I think a better push is against armlx, personally. JY's wagon seems ill-advised and has far too many people anxious to look like they're really thinking when they aren't to be a good wagon.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I agree that we shouldn't autoclear ilord based on the PR, but I'm fine with an ork in the town for now.
I don't quite agree with the JY wagon, so I'll be staying away from that.
I'm unsure of armlx, right now. His lose-lose situation wasn't nice, but I agree with his random vote comment. I'll watch that for now.
Sobek seems like the best target, ATM. I think he really was trying to joke vote, but I don't even like the way he did that. The line about his "hunch" feels like he was being careful and noncommital, even while joking. His Omgus of ilord isn't great either. And the rest of his defense hasn't quite moved me.
From a flavour point of view, I don't see how Orks can possibly be aligned with town. There's further points I'd like to make but it'd be speculating on the game setup.
I know I look bandwagony, but I'm also the one to start quoting and analyzing all of Sobek's posts. I'm not saying 'hur hur me too' and jumping on board here.
Tell me when I should start claiming.
Really jumping the Gun here. I really don't see the case on you actually.
In fact, reading over sobek's recent posts, he seams again like the best place to look, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. and give him some chance to get better.
I have always hated when people try to lurker-hunt on early day one; this slight push on Arlmx is no different. there is no reason to be pushing him right now, maybe on day two if his posting doesn't improve, but not now.
Although StormBlind looks suspicious now to me fr pushing this early lurker lynch.
I have always hated when people try to lurker-hunt on early day one; this slight push on Arlmx is no different. there is no reason to be pushing him right now, maybe on day two if his posting doesn't improve, but not now.
The "slight push" on armlx has nothing to do with his lurking. What you're doing here is called strawmanning, and it's a sign of both scumminess and poor logic.
What I really like is that you're using armlx's lurkiness as an excuse to defend him, as though him being a lurker were actually a point in his favor. If you actually think that, you could stand to work on your critical thinking skills.
I'm okay with the Sobek wagon. I think armlx has dug himself into a bigger hole than Sobek has, but both of them seem likely to be scum. Especially considering their interaction.
Anyway, if Sobek would like to claim, we can get into that any time, and I'm happy to re-add my vote to get him to that point. Then if he seems lynchworthy, we can save armlx for tomorrow.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I have always hated when people try to lurker-hunt on early day one; this slight push on Arlmx is no different. there is no reason to be pushing him right now, maybe on day two if his posting doesn't improve, but not now.
Although StormBlind looks suspicious now to me fr pushing this early lurker lynch.
FoS StormBlind
... How is this a lurker lynch? Im not particularly caring about his lack of posts. It's his posts that bother me, the two posts he has are striking me as off.
And if there's one thing ive learnt about scum new to this site, they have a very strange habit of gravitating towards attacking me day one.
As such, FOS: TravelingLaundrymat
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
(1/13) - ea er refta - Turbo164
(1/13) - Turbo164 - ea er refta
With Twenty-Four (24) alive, it takes Thirteen (13) to lynch.
All errors in votecount can be reported via appeal to Absolutionis in the form of a PM as defined in Section 1.2 of Post 002.
List is sectioned by number of votes then ordered alphabetically.
**BLOOP**
Some vote machines have been found counting votes twice.
Those vote machines have been retired.
Really jumping the Gun here. I really don't see the case on you actually.
In fact, reading over sobek's recent posts, he seams again like the best place to look, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. and give him some chance to get better.
I have always hated when people try to lurker-hunt on early day one; this slight push on Arlmx is no different. there is no reason to be pushing him right now, maybe on day two if his posting doesn't improve, but not now.
Although StormBlind looks suspicious now to me fr pushing this early lurker lynch.
I find it very hard to get a read on a player based on what they said in the span of 2 posts. I really don't see how you can see someone as scum with them only having two votes.
Thinking about it, his 2 posts really are not that great, however, still the fact that there are only two posts remains, and philosophy, i cannot read him yet, and IMO neither can you.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I find it very hard to get a read on a player based on what they said in the span of 2 posts. I really don't see how you can see someone as scum with them only having two votes.
Thinking about it, his 2 posts really are not that great, however, still the fact that there are only two posts remains, and philosophy, i cannot read him yet, and IMO neither can you.
You grossly underestimate how readable it's possible to be. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because I think it's possible for a townie to make that kind of mistake, but in the future, you should try to let people defend themselves before you start talking about stuff about which you clearly know squat.
Actually, you should people defend themselves first anyway.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
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So what's the distinction?
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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That's a very careful answer.
However, if you can see how it could be kidding without the line, how is it not possible he could be kidding with the line?
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I agree.
When he specifically says "The time for jokes is over" I think it makes a big difference in terms of whether I think he is joking or not.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Coming from you, this is kind of a surprise. What's up?
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Also, don't Orks have that telepathic thing about strength in numbers or whatever? I remember reading about it in a vs. thread.
Jodo's play is disconcerting, and if Sobek ends up scum it makes him a lot more likely to be wavering on bussing a partner.
I think Orks get more aggressive in numbers, they do have some Waaagh telepathic connection. Check the wiki!
You're setting up a lose-lose situation against me. If Sobek is scum, then I'm bussing! If Sobek isn't scum, then I'm bandwagoning!
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
I agrees.
Yous was scummy. Yous was not a good townie.
Why yous not vote me? Cause I is a townie?
Bad Jodo. Yous bad. Yous use "I reread" excuse. Yous and Laundry Man. FOS: JY and Laundry Man.
But I is a townie. What you say, I don't care. I is a townie!
I is not "barbaricy an inhumicaly vilent" I is very smart. I fix junk!
I is very clever. I is a smart townie! Give me stuffs and I fix!
Both is not good people.
I is a townie! I is not stupid! I fix stuff! I is smart! I do no mayhem or vilence! I is a imperim ork!
Mores stuff once I reread. So fars, JodoYodo and Sobek ares both bad people. Mes reread. Yous guys no post.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Agreed. Just because it's easy to wagon JY here doesn't mean that the wagon has any real merit, for reasons exactly like this one. It can't be an equal tell to both do something and not do something. This wagon smells of people trying to be on the wagon, which is far scummier than anything JY has done.
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Agreed.
While this may or may not be true (JY has been aggressive, which could mean any number of things), I still think that Sobek has the worse position, and is much more likely to be scum.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Generally, if someone makes a statement like that I usually believe the opposite, as in "This guy is scummy, but not in my scum group." In this case, however, it's a non-tell, since he's trying to make that assumption based on flavor speculation, and I don't think that indicates alignment either way.
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No, you got the right number. Alx is a good target. [/bitterness over previous game]
If you're going to post like an Ork, post like one. Not like some drunk plunking at a keyboard with his elbow.
How about you let AH answer questions directed at him. In fact, how about you only answer those questions directed at you.
How about some support?
And the mod has license to make roles how he likes.
Orks are cunning, but not too intelligent over all. They have a specialized intelligence, that being how to make different vehicles run in any way possible. It's similiar to football players. They're not Einstein, but somehow they manage to memorize, understand and execute plays from a playbook the size of a city telephone book based on a few keywords.
Ok, that's it for me for now. I need to step away and come back to re-examine posts for tells. This post was just to get me caught up on general topics people have been talking about.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Sorry.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
There's also things he's likely to have done, and not likely to have done. I prefer to accept the more logical explanation, at least initially.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
If we look at that post...
You'll see the second line goes with the first. I was responding to this,
Obviously, my first line is responding. But the line in question, "The time for jokes is over." is mocking andelijah's confusion.
Likewise, my vote for StormBlind is pretty clearly a joke. Read my last line (referring to the vote) then read Absolutionis' post,
Concerning other matters, I wasn't particularly suspicious of iLord previously, and the banter concerning Orks hasn't really persuaded me. Yet...
False dilemma much?
Seems odd that you were so eager to cast the very first vote for me before any conjecture, merely because something struck you as "kind of weirdish." Poor reason to vote I say.
Your also too trigger happy with the "I is a townie!" bit.
Twelve times in six posts. That seems a disproportionate response to simple conjecture on the nature of Orks in the game. Notice how five of the above are in his last post, after the discussion about Orks got particularly heated.
This Ork speech doesn't convince me either. It seem like a poor ploy to deflect suspicion along with the continuous bombardment of "I is townie!"
This also strikes me as exceptionally odd:
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but is iLord really asking why Jerubbal didn't vote for him when voting on opportunism? For picking on "silly little newbs"?
I got called for "trying too hard" and I am going to have to do the same for you iLord. FOS: iLord
I get the sense that you're trying to be sarcastic, but I honestly have no idea what you're trying to be sarcastic about, considering that up to that point, I had said basically nothing about JY. So are you just being bitter about me killing your wagon?
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Is it mental if you write it down? I'm thinking no. But I agree.
Unvote, Vote: Yuan-Ti
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
That, and your other post where you basically say "lets vote Sobek now guys."
More of a joke than sarcasm.
I would hardly call it "mine" considering I'm not on it, nor do I plan on getting on it.
iLord's posting restriction doesn't though.
Unvote: YuanTi
@Yuan: what were the last two games you were in (excluding Random 3)?
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Notice, the false dilemma situation. If sobeks scum, jodo's bussing. If Sobek's town, Jodo's Bandwagoning. A no win scenario, and scummy.
Second is this
First, agreement without any real reason. Fosing 3 people for random votes, seemingly trying to hard to me. Then lastly, the last part seems like an excuse to lurk.
Maybe nothing, but i feel its something.
Lier, lier. Stop lying.
Good reason. Weirdish = scummiest at time. You iz lying. First post = sinceeer. Nothing you can say to changz past.
But I is a townie! What else Orks like me say? Plus, Orks discussion don't get heated. I iz a good Ork!
??? Hows I try to hard? I ask Jerub why he attackz JY and not me, cause I attakz you too! ???
Ah...thanks I waz a bad Ork.
Half a post readyz from reread! Morz to come peoplez!
My Custom Set: Solescurio
That means nothing, one way or the other. This restriction is just about exactly the same as arim's pirate restriction in Court.
Using post restrictions to make any kind of determination of alignment is bad strategy, even if the post restriction is that you have to say "I am evil scum" in every post.
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I could definitely go with this. I don't like armlx's lack of original thought, nor his effort to get on the JY wagon. The fact that he ignores Sobek's wagon until after someone (me) notes that people are trying to hard to be on JY's wagon, and then immediately gets off of it and hopes no one notices, is just icing on the cake.
I'm actually very comfortable with this read, and am willing to extract a claim. This day is moving quite well, IMO.
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Sobek is no kidding. See blck workds?
No reason? No jokeses? FOS: Stormblind!
Yous lies! Yous OMGUS! Yous scummy!
What yous try to say?
Why yous "hate to metagame?"
Why not vote me here? Opprutitunict much?
Oops, you werez sanrthied. UNFOS: Laundry Man.
No sarcasm! He iz a lier!
Thatz a scarry way to say it...
I sorryz. I waz a bad Ork!
Thatz me! I make stuffz workz!
I going to look at Armix an JodoYodo very closley! More stillz to come. (When I look through thread, I see one thingz at a time!)
My Custom Set: Solescurio
If you think my post was OMGUS (which it is) then why does that make me scummy?
This doesn't make sense. I didn't mention you in that post, and I would only be opportunistic if I had done something towards you, which I clearly hadn't.
Look at that, there we go again with the lies. If thats your best argument against me, I think you might want to find a position that is firmly grounded in actual evidence rather than on baseless conjecture.
If I had actually made that mistake, I would be proclaiming it up and down this thread because it would absolve me of any wrong-doing. The fact I haven't means it wasn't a mistake. It was an intentional jooke.
Orks were never that subtle though. (That last line was a joke. See. Its in writing this time. I just need a notary and I'll be set.)
I will, however, agree with you that,
Yous voted for bad reason.
Yous quoted me. Look back.
Look at what yous posted and tellz me that you were joking. "It's just a hunch but I can't shake it off." Yous lies!
The defend yousselvez seems jokesese, but "I can't shake it off" and "hunch" are genuinein. Yous lies!
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I see what you mean.
Regardless, it still wouldn't make sense for me to vote for you, you were just asking for clarification. Voting for you then wouldn't have been the ultimate in defensive postures, so I think the fact I didn't lends legitimacy to my cause.
Two problems I see with this. First, you were extremely eager to vote for me based on a hunch, which I think would qualify as a bad reason to post. Second, you can't have a bad reason to joke vote.
Again with the lies. I do think that qualifies as a joke, especially if you read the entire post.
"Lies! Lies! Lies!" I understand now; iLord is actually a cybork with a broken record player in his chest.
I was struck with something while posting. iLord makes repeated reference to his ability to fix things. That seems overly specific to general ork talk. Perhaps a confession of an ability?
Even if it is, it doesn't change my analysis too much. It could easily be a scum ability or a townie ability that he speaks off.
I haz good reasonz! You haz no reasonz!
I cantz fix yourz fishing rod. Super Duper Vote: Sobek!
My Custom Set: Solescurio
But this is really the only point I agree with you on so far. Claiming to know that he was being serious in the beginning when he denies it and the posts themselves are at best ambiguous is a poor point.
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Butz it lookz soo obviovis! "I've got a hunch, but I can't shake it" canz not be sarcstic! After looking again, the "defend yousself" seems jokeesese, but I canz see how he iz not serious about a hunch!.
FTR, Sobek, use [scardsm] tagz plez!
I feel like I'm in Newb 17 again.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Should be, "FTR, Sobke, if yous arent lieing, use [sacrdsm] tagx in the futur pleaz!
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Serious lulz!
Very so-so on Sobek's defence. I'm going to stick to my guns for now since Sobek hasn't said much convincing me otherwise. His defence is pretty muddled and after a second re-read I'm still not sure I completely follow.
Regarding armlx, I'm very weirded out by the random voting issue. He's certainly behaving differently than what I've read of him in other games.
And what's this pirate PR that CP mentions from Court Mafia?
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Har har. Was it any indication of his role?
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
I find it odd you keep telling me you don't understand but don't point out any areas of uncertainty. I certainly can't clarify if I don't know what is confusing.
There was a role in the game that strongly indicated the pirate as scum (and the pirate was, in fact, scum), so yes.
The point, however, is that the pirate-speak restriction was fake. arim made up the restriction precisely to ward off suspicion that he might be scum purely because of his identity. Which is what's happening here with iLord: Orks are apparently obvious bad guys who could likely be lynched on sight, but the posting restriction (faked or not) is forcing people to reconsider their preconceptions. And that's fine, as long as no one goes so far as to say that he can't be scum, because he can.
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Nah nah nah. As cp says, arim made up the PR. Even though there was a town role which was told to look out for pirates, everyone was like "nah, the mod wouldn't give someone a post restriction that gave them away as scum". It was brilliant.
The point is- don't trust PRs.
In any event, I don't believe orks necessarily = scum in this game, but as cp says, don't automatically trust iLord because of the PR either.
I really didn't like Sobek's fishing expedition there (and iLord scores points for his line on the fishing rod... get it, line on the fishing rod? :laugh:), but I happen to believe what Sobek says about the joking and the sarcasm and such, so- push.
I'm not sure where the pressure against JodoYodo went, I quite liked that push so far as it went.
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I don't quite agree with the JY wagon, so I'll be staying away from that.
I'm unsure of armlx, right now. His lose-lose situation wasn't nice, but I agree with his random vote comment. I'll watch that for now.
Sobek seems like the best target, ATM. I think he really was trying to joke vote, but I don't even like the way he did that. The line about his "hunch" feels like he was being careful and noncommital, even while joking. His Omgus of ilord isn't great either. And the rest of his defense hasn't quite moved me.
unvote Cyan
Vote Sobek
Really jumping the Gun here. I really don't see the case on you actually.
In fact, reading over sobek's recent posts, he seams again like the best place to look, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. and give him some chance to get better.
I have always hated when people try to lurker-hunt on early day one; this slight push on Arlmx is no different. there is no reason to be pushing him right now, maybe on day two if his posting doesn't improve, but not now.
Although StormBlind looks suspicious now to me fr pushing this early lurker lynch.
FoS StormBlind
Welcome to Grammar Land
The "slight push" on armlx has nothing to do with his lurking. What you're doing here is called strawmanning, and it's a sign of both scumminess and poor logic.
What I really like is that you're using armlx's lurkiness as an excuse to defend him, as though him being a lurker were actually a point in his favor. If you actually think that, you could stand to work on your critical thinking skills.
I'm okay with the Sobek wagon. I think armlx has dug himself into a bigger hole than Sobek has, but both of them seem likely to be scum. Especially considering their interaction.
Anyway, if Sobek would like to claim, we can get into that any time, and I'm happy to re-add my vote to get him to that point. Then if he seems lynchworthy, we can save armlx for tomorrow.
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... How is this a lurker lynch? Im not particularly caring about his lack of posts. It's his posts that bother me, the two posts he has are striking me as off.
And if there's one thing ive learnt about scum new to this site, they have a very strange habit of gravitating towards attacking me day one.
As such, FOS: TravelingLaundrymat
**BLOOP**
Some vote machines have been found counting votes twice.
Those vote machines have been retired.
Tsk, tsk.
Unvote, Vote TravelingLaundromat
You have me listed as voting twice.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
RFAFOTDACIAAISMWTTOCTOCMIIAAM
Im quite happy with the ArmLx vote, and the fact someone would defend him based off nothing, and try to strawman the argument makes me happy.
Thinking about it, his 2 posts really are not that great, however, still the fact that there are only two posts remains, and philosophy, i cannot read him yet, and IMO neither can you.
Welcome to Grammar Land
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You grossly underestimate how readable it's possible to be. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because I think it's possible for a townie to make that kind of mistake, but in the future, you should try to let people defend themselves before you start talking about stuff about which you clearly know squat.
Actually, you should people defend themselves first anyway.
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