This really draws my attention. it's an attempt to be derogatory about Cyan, obviously, but it's internally inconsistent and suggests desCoures doesn't actually think of Cyan as such.
"Plainsightlurking": an accusation that Cyan is using a scum tactic.
"Tunnel vision target": implication that Cyan is townie locking onto one suspect to the exclusion of others, as he does.
This is the sort of thing a scum would do when looking for bad things to say about Cyan rather than a townie looking at what is scummy.
[bvote desCoures[/b]
.....
First thing -- you will note no FOSes or votes were placed. Nor did I actually attempt to throw any real suspicion his way. In fact, what I did in that same post was instead to ask Cyan one clarification question and two probing questions, which would (hopefully) have given real information. You will also note that despite constantly resurfacing and reasserting scuminess on my part, he never made an attempt to answer any of those questions. If I carry any suspicion of him, that is its root at the current time, not his 'plainsightlurking'. The fact that you don't mention the questions, actually, makes me a bit uncomfortable about you.
Reading it again, you're probably right about the derogatory nature of that statement, actually. I should probably apologize for that. But let me make it clear -- Cyan frustrates me. Reading the games he was in made me moan at his sheer singleminded self-righteousness. Some of that apparently carried over, and it was a fairly rude surprise for me to be the one locked on to.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Wuffles is playing like he does as town. I've only ever seen him be town. Apparently he was scum in White Stripes, with me no less, but that game was a total failure, and I remember nothing of it.
I have no read on Stormblind.
Now that you mention it, I believe you also were his scumbuddy in X-Men Mafia over at WIFOM.
Wuffles is playing like he does as town. I've only ever seen him be town. Apparently he was scum in White Stripes, with me no less, but that game was a total failure, and I remember nothing of it.
I have no read on Stormblind.
Thank you finally for the answers to two of those questions that were in #72. Still missing one answer, though.
Although ...hmm. I can't actually seem to find a game with Wuffles as scum. Mmmhh.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Games at WIFOM don't count. For anything. Ever. They're like Humility and Licids. They never happened.
@DC: Nice OMGUS on RafK too, you're on a roll. I can see that you're trying to be reasonable(now that you've already drawn suspicion) but it looks fairly forced.
I would love to know, incidentally, how you asking me my feelings on Wuffles and SB is supposed to clarify my stance on you.
The fact that you didn't Vote/FoS doesn't mean anything, it was 70 posts into Day 1, and anyone would realize how OMGUS a return vote would be there. The fact that you would try to use this as a point in favor of yourself says plenty though.
@loran16: It's not just 'defensiveness' in this case. I read it more as 'sarcastic defensiveness' than 'frustrated defensiveness' -- the latter is more town, the former more scum. Also, re: 'trying too hard' -- would you prefer lurking?
Actually, both the former and latter are often the same thing. But the word sarcastic implies a far more negative connotation...which isn't really there a lot of the time. And in this case, its certainly not of either sort here.
As for trying too hard, you missed my point. Its one thing to try and help the town by looking out for scum tells, its another to be trying so hard to find scum tells that you point out things that arent really there.
Technically, he OMGUSed me. But this post.. the avoidance! It is too strong! It compels me to put my vote where my electronic mouth is...
Vote Wuffles_II
I mean, cmon, you start off with weak commitment to two stances without really giving any justifications (ala FoSes) and when one of them gathers minor momentum, you vote on it with this crud? And you talk about sarcasm here....
Vote Des Coures
@Cyan: Still not answering questions, I see. Still surfacing to make accusations and assertions, I see. A sum total of 5 posts does not seem conversant with you as town, although the last post (re: Zionite wagon) was perfectly right. However, the bulldogging is almost classic Cyan-town. Heh.
Course you're dismissive post on Cyan doesn't actually make me change my mind. I love the calling of Cyan town too, that's terrific.
@RafK: Point of logic. The newbie card goes like this: "OH NOEZ I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING DON'T KILL ME I IZ N00B". You will notice I make no mention of my 'newbieness' before directly asked about it, nor am I using it as an excuse. I don't like being misrepresented -- as often as that may happen in a Mafia game, and for as many varied reasons.
Well, you're correct here about the newbie argument being bull (you never do bring it up yourself, and try to explain that experience isnt a necessity for good reasoning) , but your reaction to it is interesting. Not really a tell though.
Anyhow, the point being, im voting you. As should others.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Games at WIFOM don't count. For anything. Ever. They're like Humility and Licids. They never happened.
@DC: Nice OMGUS on RafK too, you're on a roll. I can see that you're trying to be reasonable(now that you've already drawn suspicion) but it looks fairly forced.
I would love to know, incidentally, how you asking me my feelings on Wuffles and SB is supposed to clarify my stance on you.
The fact that you didn't Vote/FoS doesn't mean anything, it was 70 posts into Day 1, and anyone would realize how OMGUS a return vote would be there. The fact that you would try to use this as a point in favor of yourself says plenty though.
Plenty negative.
I beg to differ. I've been attempting to be 'reasonable' from the beginning. In my part of the universe, 'reasonable' equates being willing to argue the point in a logical manner and giving credit where credit is due.
As for what you'd 'love to know', they weren't meant for you to do anything with your 'stance on me'. I just wanted to hear what you had to say about other people in the pertinent debate at the time.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Matrix Mafia, White Stripes mafia, X-Men mafia over on wifom? You were, like, IN my scum group all those times?
And Wifom games that actually...well, finish, count. X-Men and Mortal Kombat are the only ones I care to remember. Aside from Halo mafia, heh, but I remember that for...quite a different reason. And I wasn't even IN Halo mafia.
Actually, both the former and latter are often the same thing. But the word sarcastic implies a far more negative connotation...which isn't really there a lot of the time. And in this case, its certainly not of either sort here.
As for trying too hard, you missed my point. Its one thing to try and help the town by looking out for scum tells, its another to be trying so hard to find scum tells that you point out things that arent really there.
I mean, cmon, you start off with weak commitment to two stances without really giving any justifications (ala FoSes) and when one of them gathers minor momentum, you vote on it with this crud? And you talk about sarcasm here....
For example, as pointed out before.
Course you're dismissive post on Cyan doesn't actually make me change my mind. I love the calling of Cyan town too, that's terrific.
Well, you're correct here about the newbie argument being bull (you never do bring it up yourself, and try to explain that experience isnt a necessity for good reasoning) , but your reaction to it is interesting. Not really a tell though.
Anyhow, the point being, im voting you. As should others.
It's a question of mindset. 'Frustrated' gives more of a 'WTH are you voting me, you iijit' vibe. 'Sarcastic' gives more of a 'WTH are you voting me, you iijit' vibe. (Italics for the emphasized portion.)
Re: Trying too hard... point. It's entirely possible I'm reading too much into things.
As previously noted (in reply to Datte), the FOSes were more an attempt to look for reactions than anything else. Wuffles earned my vote because of the defensiveness (yes, this again) and avoidance tactics that followed, tanarin didn't. The vote is still there because of the way he jumped on the Zionite krap logick wagon.
Scum tell + town tell = null tell. I wasn't actually calling him 'town'. Minor point. And I'll be less 'dismissive' when I get proper arguments instead of 'scum scum scum'.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Aside from Halo mafia, heh, but I remember that for...quite a different reason. And I wasn't even IN Halo mafia.
Best...role....ever.
"You're the GF!
Well you're the cult leader!"
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
@Wuffs: Cyan wasn't in our group in Matrix while we were alive. WS doesn't count because it died, and wifom should never be mentioned on this good earth again.
And I'll be less 'dismissive' when I get proper arguments instead of 'scum scum scum'.
EBWOP: You know what, scratch the above. That was a bit over the top of me. And I have no intention of setting the foundation for a false dichotomy.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Also, multiquote isn't working for me for some reason....
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Grimclaw worked hard on X-Men mafia to run it for us after viper died.
And Mortal Kombat Mafia was an abbeygargoyle mini. Both were excellent.
And Cyan was still in the same game as us. He knew spoon was scum, and that you and I were who spoon was.
Even if a game on WIFOM had a good setup, the playerbase there was so atrocious that it wouldn't matter anyway.
And I forgot that you guys were Spoon in Matrix. Besides, that game can't very effectively be counted as a scum game for either of you because there is no way to discern which person was posting at whatever time, and you both acted abnormally throughout anyway.
Can we move beyond this really pointless topic now; onto something more effective like DC's increasing scumminess?
And I forgot that you guys were Spoon in Matrix. Besides, that game can't very effectively be counted as a scum game for either of you because there is no way to discern which person was posting at whatever time, and you both acted abnormally throughout anyway.
To end this cuz imm going to sleep, 99% of spoon's posts were Ged. Wuffles posted like maybe 3 times in the beginning, sucked ass, and then like never posted.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Okay, i actually AGREE with dC, i dont see anything wrong with the majority of his comments, and think that he's actually done admirably under the circumstances.
He also didnt jump on the obvious Zionite thing.
And i also happen to agree with him on the wuffles thing.
Wuffles overreacted massively.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Okay, i actually AGREE with dC, i dont see anything wrong with the majority of his comments, and think that he's actually done admirably under the circumstances.
He also didnt jump on the obvious Zionite thing.
And i also happen to agree with him on the wuffles thing.
Wuffles overreacted massively.
Being voted because of a professed hatred for random voting is just stupid. There are no tells to be had there, at all.
DC had no damned reason to be voting me in the first place.
I was not overreacting. Especially when so many people piled onto this crapwagon.
At least Zionite's wagon was based on a perceived slip of the tongue.
Ok, Cyan's singlemindedness managed to convince me he's town. I'm not nearly as convinced he's right, though. For now, I'm looking at the bad Zionite wagon. bateleur, AH, Wuffles, Roja (the latter as a FOS).
Ever since the legs were cut from under said wagon, none of them posted anything, except for Wuffles, who kept his posts strictly off-topic. Interesting coincidence.
Quote from Wuffles »
Being voted because of a professed hatred for random voting is just stupid. There are no tells to be had there, at all.
DC had no damned reason to be voting me in the first place.
I was not overreacting. Especially when so many people piled onto this crapwagon.
At least Zionite's wagon was based on a perceived slip of the tongue.
How about I vote you because your only non-banter action in this game was bandwagoning based on bad logic? Would that be better? unvote, vote Wuffles, and IGMEOY the other three.
Being voted because of a professed hatred for random voting is just stupid. There are no tells to be had there, at all.
DC had no damned reason to be voting me in the first place.
I was not overreacting. Especially when so many people piled onto this crapwagon.
At least Zionite's wagon was based on a perceived slip of the tongue.
This is like..exactly like Wuffles acts as town. He takes everything personally. Do you guys not remember RK Mafia? He was the Doc, acted 100% scummy, thought he got lynched, and completely flew off of the handle about it.
If he's scum and faking, he's doing an admirable job. And honestly, if he could act that convincingly, he wouldn't be known for the things he is known for.
Secondly, +1 to what Cyan said about Wuffles. Seems to be how he acts as town.
I don't see much wrong at all with how DC is posting at the moment, but it's hard to say since he seems to be a gimmick.
@Wuffles - being voted for saying one hates random voting is stupid. But being voted for making something out of nothing has some merit.
-Alpha
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Shrug. I'm happy with my vote, despite mafia talk. It's about mindset not about what actually happened. I can see the phrase "when we get a night" being thrown around in a mafia discussion. That and Zionite's refusal to take any suspicion seriously. Good players know that's the way to make a discussion go away. Zionite, I've seen him around here playing enough to suspect he may have some skill. So his behavior doesn't lesson suspicion, and the alleged slip eclipses any other evidence I'm picking up.
@desCourses: I'm tired, I didn't reread your posts. But I think you proposed lynching Cyan because he's a jerk. Let's wait for something abnormal before we break out the pitchforks.
Shrug. I'm happy with my vote, despite mafia talk. It's about mindset not about what actually happened. I can see the phrase "when we get a night" being thrown around in a mafia discussion. That and Zionite's refusal to take any suspicion seriously. Good players know that's the way to make a discussion go away. Zionite, I've seen him around here playing enough to suspect he may have some skill. So his behavior doesn't lesson suspicion, and the alleged slip eclipses any other evidence I'm picking up.
@desCourses: I'm tired, I didn't reread your posts. But I think you proposed lynching Cyan because he's a jerk. Let's wait for something abnormal before we break out the pitchforks.
This post is pretty ridiculous, frankly.
The notion that good players address every point made against them is pretty much patently absurd. If anything, the majority of them get ignored entirely, because they're inaccurate to begin with.
And you trying to stick to your theory that Zionite slipped comes across, to me, as you having gotten caught with your hand in the cookie jar, but trying to make excuses instead of just trying to move on. This isn't what I would expect from a town mentality.
@Wuffles - being voted for saying one hates random voting is stupid. But being voted for making something out of nothing has some merit.
-Alpha
qft, sheepy.
I didn't quite think that vote through. It was serious at the time, but Cyan quite eloquently elaborated why it is a stupid ****ing reason to be voting him.
I even said that Alx was not wrong for the reasons he gave. But DC was. Thus, only DC got hit by the Stupid Stick (tm) when he voted me.
@desCourses: I'm tired, I didn't reread your posts. But I think you proposed lynching Cyan because he's a jerk. Let's wait for something abnormal before we break out the pitchforks.
What. The. Heck.
Quick clue: You think wrong.
@Zionite: If I were AKid, you'd have to call shenanigans, given that both he and I are currently signed up for Berserk Mafia.
@Cyan: ...I think I'm going to go read RK Mafia and see what you're talking about. Although from comments in other games, I thought that game was classified as 'disaster'?
@RafK: Neither am I. Saying anything about whether Cyan's scum or not, that is. I'm kind of fully admitting in every post I make that my problems with Cyan have nothing to do whether he's scum or not -- is there a reason you're belaboring the point?
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I didn't quite think that vote through. It was serious at the time, but Cyan quite eloquently elaborated why it is a stupid ****ing reason to be voting him.
I even said that Alx was not wrong for the reasons he gave. But DC was. Thus, only DC got hit by the Stupid Stick (tm) when he voted me.
I'd reply to the ad hominem, but it would be a waste of breath. I will, however, point to this:
As previously noted (in reply to Datte), the FOSes were more an attempt to look for reactions than anything else. Wuffles earned my vote because of the defensiveness (yes, this again) and avoidance tactics that followed, tanarin didn't. The vote is still there because of the way he jumped on the Zionite krap logick wagon.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
A point about the Zionite case that everyone seems to have missed: my speculation was not that he had nothing to do on night zero, but that he was unable to use an ability.
The key factor here is that he corrected himself over the "no night zero" error. The psychology is spot on.
Quote from Cyan »
This is like..exactly like Wuffles acts as town.
And, we must assume, as scum also.
But I agree - there is no worthwhile case on Wuffles. Also, I don't much like the way Alx2 is trying to push his wagon. FOS: Alx2
I'm not convinced by the case against desCoures at all. Either that or I'm just reluctant to lynch someone with good written English who formats their posts nicely.
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I'd reply to the ad hominem, but it would be a waste of breath. I will, however, point to this:
I will, however, point out, that my post was quite clearly saying your initial reason for voting me was craplogic, and I sort of assumed that you'd realize I was implying your move to "I'm keeping my vote on you because I'm barning Cyan" was quite suspect.
You showed that you were already keen on voting me even before Cyan said anything.
And I showed that your reasons for being keen deserve you being whacked by the Stupid Stick (TM).
I will, however, point out, that my post was quite clearly saying your initial reason for voting me was craplogic, and I sort of assumed that you'd realize I was implying your move to "I'm keeping my vote on you because I'm barning Cyan" was quite suspect.
You showed that you were already keen on voting me even before Cyan said anything.
And I showed that your reasons for being keen deserve you being whacked by the Stupid Stick (TM).
Barning Cyan? Nothing could be further from truth, personal inclination, or smart strategy.
Anyone could have seen the Zionite wagon was krap logick from the very definition of a mafia. I saw that from the moment it appeared, and I'm pretty certain many others did too, which is why no one else joined that wagon. I wanted to see who would actually jump in before saying anything -- thus why I asked Datte about the wagon. Cyan derailed that entirely, though, by saying it out loud.
Speaking of which...
@Cyan: After re-reading the entire thread, Wuffles in RK Mafia neither 'acted scummy' nor 'blew up prematurely'. You almost got him lynched with setup speculation -- and he would have been lynched without Stormblind's propensity for constant bold text -- at which point he 'overreacted', so to speak. Which in that case wasn't an overreaction at all, given that he was almost speedlynched in less than a page of posts. In a mini. Big difference from 3 votes in a game where it's 15 to lynch.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
was krap logick from the very definition of a mafia
Wut?
And also, you should probably read the thread before posting. As I explained a couple of posts up, the attempt to defend Zionite earlier was based on a misconception. He's very likely scum.
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
And also, you should probably read the thread before posting. As I explained a couple of posts up, the attempt to defend Zionite earlier was based on a misconception. He's very likely scum.
I study a smattering of psychology myself, and I find it quite difficult to imagine that Zionite would, in the theoretical case he was mafia, 'feel like there was no night 0' if, like any reasonably sapient mafia, he and his scummates were using night 0 to share information on abilities and put together some form of strategy.
The only remaining possibilites, at that point, are:
(1) SK. This is the only possible scum at this point, as Cult Leader is quite non-lethal.
(2) Vanilla townie. Very possible, and likely to forget the existence of night 0.
(3) Vigilante. Which, given, human psychology, is actually more likely to remember night 0 as 'the night I couldn't use this awesome ability'.
No points for guessing which I find the most likely at the moment.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
...more seriously, though. The way you're retroactively justifying the wagon makes me feel worse about you. Initially I thought the ones that jumped on were worse, but at least Wuffles admits it's bad logic...
...in fact, let's see where this goes. Unvote Wuffles_II, Vote Bateleur
@Diggy: You could try asking Tilde. He seems to like summarizing. ^_-
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Ok, Cyan's singlemindedness managed to convince me he's town. I'm not nearly as convinced he's right, though. For now, I'm looking at the bad Zionite wagon. bateleur, AH, Wuffles, Roja (the latter as a FOS).
Ever since the legs were cut from under said wagon, none of them posted anything, except for Wuffles, who kept his posts strictly off-topic. Interesting coincidence.
How about I vote you because your only non-banter action in this game was bandwagoning based on bad logic? Would that be better? unvote, vote Wuffles, and IGMEOY the other three.
Alx my post states how it could be exactly what Cyan and everyone else is talking about:
Quote from Me »
As for Zionite, it could be a case of open mouth insert foot.. However those little tells can make the difference. Right now I will cast a FOS Zionite. I would like to see what develops before casting a vote.
After hearing what everyone has to say I think that Bateleur's thinking is correct with the fact that Zionite does have an ability, however does that make him scum.. I think a lot less likely.
And I bring up once again only because of the non-responces I have gotten from Wrath_of_Dog: Post #85. (Nor anyone else.. Am I looking into something that shouldn't be looked at?)
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Is anyone else getting the "scum on the hook" vibe from DC? Its hard for me to pinpoint exactly where I started feeling that way, but I'm comfortable with a
unvote, vote descoures
In other news, I'm getting a townie vibe from Cyan and Wuffles.
Alx my post states how it could be exactly what Cyan and everyone else is talking about:
After hearing what everyone has to say I think that Bateleur's thinking is correct with the fact that Zionite does have an ability, however does that make him scum.. I think a lot less likely.
And I bring up once again only because of the non-responces I have gotten from Wrath_of_Dog: Post #85. (Nor anyone else.. Am I looking into something that shouldn't be looked at?)
As much as it pains me to say it, you are looking into something that need not be looked at. He was clearly throwing around a random vote.
I'm totally not convinced on the Zionite wagon. I can't support it because I, too, have an ability that cannot yet be used, and I'm thinking that his ability is similar in a way. I don't think his case is as black and white as "Either Scum/Vanilla/SK/VIG", and will not vote him on the basis of such.
I'm still happy with my vote on DC, he's been acting ever more scummy since I voted him.
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
If he claims vanilla then maybe there is something to him. But I feel that that was kind of just a smartass remark that he thought he could get away with considering the very low number of players actually voting for him.
I'm not sure what I think about descourses. Unless he's Minineko, I can't think of anyone else who acts remotely like him. And if he's acting it will fall apart eventually, they almost aways do. So I'll take him at his word for now that he's not a gimmick- and come to think of it, coming in with an account with basically no posts and then telling everyone you aren't a gimmick if you actually aren't is a bit WTF- in which case he's not lying. Although I still don't completely like some of the stuff he's doing, and will be keeping an eye on him, unvote.
krowzy, since you say that DC has "been acting ever more scummy since I voted him," could you explain exactly what you mean? I'd like to know how you're reading him.
Post #45: Defends FoS of Wuffles by stating that he seemed eager to start the day, which is a null tell.
Post #66: Terribly scummy vote on Wuffles. Says Wuffles OMGUSed him or something.
Post #68: Last part of this posts reeks of fishing. Didn't like his explanation of this.
Post #72: Ad hom attack on Cyan, huge deflection onto Cyan through irrelevent questions and the attack.
Post #127: Explains early FoSes on Wuffles and tanarin. Second half of this posts is horribly waffley.
Post #151: Is trying really hard to explain why he's so knowledgable about Cyan's playstyle, which I don't like. He seems to know a lot about other players' playstyles, but doesn't know that Wuffles as town is often overdefensive and takes things personally (because he attacked him as scum for it).
Post #153: States that he threw no suspicion Cyan's way. This is troubling, because this means he actually just attacked him for how he plays. He admitted to this, butthe unjustified attack is not gone unnoticed.
Post #186: Makes the Zionite case more black and white than it should be. There are many more possibilities than just him either be the SK, Vig, Town, or Scum. Not so sure what to think of this, actually, but I noted it.
Post #189: Votes bat over Wuffles. Admits that Wuffles is scummy, but votes Bat anyway. I don't like this because bat has at least a little bit of a good point in voting for Wuffles.
Paired with the iffyness of him saying he's new to Mafia but still being really knowledgeable about other players and frankly the game itself, which suggests he's probably a gimmick lying makes me feel that he's scum.
Umm, i am voting descoures. As i was voting bateleur originally and it didnt show up.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
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.....
First thing -- you will note no FOSes or votes were placed. Nor did I actually attempt to throw any real suspicion his way. In fact, what I did in that same post was instead to ask Cyan one clarification question and two probing questions, which would (hopefully) have given real information. You will also note that despite constantly resurfacing and reasserting scuminess on my part, he never made an attempt to answer any of those questions. If I carry any suspicion of him, that is its root at the current time, not his 'plainsightlurking'. The fact that you don't mention the questions, actually, makes me a bit uncomfortable about you.
Reading it again, you're probably right about the derogatory nature of that statement, actually. I should probably apologize for that. But let me make it clear -- Cyan frustrates me. Reading the games he was in made me moan at his sheer singleminded self-righteousness. Some of that apparently carried over, and it was a fairly rude surprise for me to be the one locked on to.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Thank you finally for the answers to two of those questions that were in #72. Still missing one answer, though.
Although ...hmm. I can't actually seem to find a game with Wuffles as scum. Mmmhh.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
@DC: Nice OMGUS on RafK too, you're on a roll. I can see that you're trying to be reasonable(now that you've already drawn suspicion) but it looks fairly forced.
I would love to know, incidentally, how you asking me my feelings on Wuffles and SB is supposed to clarify my stance on you.
The fact that you didn't Vote/FoS doesn't mean anything, it was 70 posts into Day 1, and anyone would realize how OMGUS a return vote would be there. The fact that you would try to use this as a point in favor of yourself says plenty though.
Plenty negative.
@Ged/Cyan- Yes Rottk was a really good game (I was mod confirmed AND unlynchable. SWING!), but i have personal prejudices against Erestor.
Course you're dismissive post on Cyan doesn't actually make me change my mind. I love the calling of Cyan town too, that's terrific.
Well, you're correct here about the newbie argument being bull (you never do bring it up yourself, and try to explain that experience isnt a necessity for good reasoning) , but your reaction to it is interesting. Not really a tell though.
Anyhow, the point being, im voting you. As should others.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I beg to differ. I've been attempting to be 'reasonable' from the beginning. In my part of the universe, 'reasonable' equates being willing to argue the point in a logical manner and giving credit where credit is due.
As for what you'd 'love to know', they weren't meant for you to do anything with your 'stance on me'. I just wanted to hear what you had to say about other people in the pertinent debate at the time.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Matrix Mafia, White Stripes mafia, X-Men mafia over on wifom? You were, like, IN my scum group all those times?
And Wifom games that actually...well, finish, count. X-Men and Mortal Kombat are the only ones I care to remember. Aside from Halo mafia, heh, but I remember that for...quite a different reason. And I wasn't even IN Halo mafia.
It's a question of mindset. 'Frustrated' gives more of a 'WTH are you voting me, you iijit' vibe. 'Sarcastic' gives more of a 'WTH are you voting me, you iijit' vibe. (Italics for the emphasized portion.)
Re: Trying too hard... point. It's entirely possible I'm reading too much into things.
As previously noted (in reply to Datte), the FOSes were more an attempt to look for reactions than anything else. Wuffles earned my vote because of the defensiveness (yes, this again) and avoidance tactics that followed, tanarin didn't. The vote is still there because of the way he jumped on the Zionite krap logick wagon.
Scum tell + town tell = null tell. I wasn't actually calling him 'town'. Minor point. And I'll be less 'dismissive' when I get proper arguments instead of 'scum scum scum'.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Best...role....ever.
"You're the GF!
Well you're the cult leader!"
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
EBWOP: You know what, scratch the above. That was a bit over the top of me. And I have no intention of setting the foundation for a false dichotomy.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Grimclaw worked hard on X-Men mafia to run it for us after viper died.
And Mortal Kombat Mafia was an abbeygargoyle mini. Both were excellent.
And Cyan was still in the same game as us. He knew spoon was scum, and that you and I were who spoon was.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Even if a game on WIFOM had a good setup, the playerbase there was so atrocious that it wouldn't matter anyway.
And I forgot that you guys were Spoon in Matrix. Besides, that game can't very effectively be counted as a scum game for either of you because there is no way to discern which person was posting at whatever time, and you both acted abnormally throughout anyway.
Can we move beyond this really pointless topic now; onto something more effective like DC's increasing scumminess?
To end this cuz imm going to sleep, 99% of spoon's posts were Ged. Wuffles posted like maybe 3 times in the beginning, sucked ass, and then like never posted.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
He also didnt jump on the obvious Zionite thing.
And i also happen to agree with him on the wuffles thing.
Wuffles overreacted massively.
DC had no damned reason to be voting me in the first place.
I was not overreacting. Especially when so many people piled onto this crapwagon.
At least Zionite's wagon was based on a perceived slip of the tongue.
Ever since the legs were cut from under said wagon, none of them posted anything, except for Wuffles, who kept his posts strictly off-topic. Interesting coincidence.
How about I vote you because your only non-banter action in this game was bandwagoning based on bad logic? Would that be better? unvote, vote Wuffles, and IGMEOY the other three.
SoIaF Mafia Record breaker?
I don't think dC playing under a possible alias has much bearing. Its a null tell really. Is there anything else on him I'm missing?
My bet is that dC is actually AK.
And Alx, yeah, your reasoning is a lot better than DC's.
I actually missed that post of Cyan's. I really need to work on reading the actual point of his posts, not just skim his rhetoric.
unvote.
This is like..exactly like Wuffles acts as town. He takes everything personally. Do you guys not remember RK Mafia? He was the Doc, acted 100% scummy, thought he got lynched, and completely flew off of the handle about it.
If he's scum and faking, he's doing an admirable job. And honestly, if he could act that convincingly, he wouldn't be known for the things he is known for.
Secondly, +1 to what Cyan said about Wuffles. Seems to be how he acts as town.
I don't see much wrong at all with how DC is posting at the moment, but it's hard to say since he seems to be a gimmick.
@Wuffles - being voted for saying one hates random voting is stupid. But being voted for making something out of nothing has some merit.
-Alpha
@desCourses: I'm tired, I didn't reread your posts. But I think you proposed lynching Cyan because he's a jerk. Let's wait for something abnormal before we break out the pitchforks.
This isn't in your favour, you know. Throwing suspicion without a commitment is not unknown for scum...
The "lurkinginplainsight" accusation notwithstanding?
Ooh, a subtle OMGUS! Fun for all the family.
Personal opinion on Cyan's playstyle doesn't actually say anything about whether he's scum or not, by the way.
This post is pretty ridiculous, frankly.
The notion that good players address every point made against them is pretty much patently absurd. If anything, the majority of them get ignored entirely, because they're inaccurate to begin with.
And you trying to stick to your theory that Zionite slipped comes across, to me, as you having gotten caught with your hand in the cookie jar, but trying to make excuses instead of just trying to move on. This isn't what I would expect from a town mentality.
Unvote, Vote Abandon Hope
I didn't quite think that vote through. It was serious at the time, but Cyan quite eloquently elaborated why it is a stupid ****ing reason to be voting him.
I even said that Alx was not wrong for the reasons he gave. But DC was. Thus, only DC got hit by the Stupid Stick (tm) when he voted me.
What. The. Heck.
Quick clue: You think wrong.
@Zionite: If I were AKid, you'd have to call shenanigans, given that both he and I are currently signed up for Berserk Mafia.
@Cyan: ...I think I'm going to go read RK Mafia and see what you're talking about. Although from comments in other games, I thought that game was classified as 'disaster'?
@RafK: Neither am I. Saying anything about whether Cyan's scum or not, that is. I'm kind of fully admitting in every post I make that my problems with Cyan have nothing to do whether he's scum or not -- is there a reason you're belaboring the point?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I'd reply to the ad hominem, but it would be a waste of breath. I will, however, point to this:
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
The key factor here is that he corrected himself over the "no night zero" error. The psychology is spot on.
And, we must assume, as scum also.
But I agree - there is no worthwhile case on Wuffles. Also, I don't much like the way Alx2 is trying to push his wagon. FOS: Alx2
I'm not convinced by the case against desCoures at all. Either that or I'm just reluctant to lynch someone with good written English who formats their posts nicely.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
You showed that you were already keen on voting me even before Cyan said anything.
And I showed that your reasons for being keen deserve you being whacked by the Stupid Stick (TM).
Barning Cyan? Nothing could be further from truth, personal inclination, or smart strategy.
Anyone could have seen the Zionite wagon was krap logick from the very definition of a mafia. I saw that from the moment it appeared, and I'm pretty certain many others did too, which is why no one else joined that wagon. I wanted to see who would actually jump in before saying anything -- thus why I asked Datte about the wagon. Cyan derailed that entirely, though, by saying it out loud.
Speaking of which...
@Cyan: After re-reading the entire thread, Wuffles in RK Mafia neither 'acted scummy' nor 'blew up prematurely'. You almost got him lynched with setup speculation -- and he would have been lynched without Stormblind's propensity for constant bold text -- at which point he 'overreacted', so to speak. Which in that case wasn't an overreaction at all, given that he was almost speedlynched in less than a page of posts. In a mini. Big difference from 3 votes in a game where it's 15 to lynch.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Wut?
And also, you should probably read the thread before posting. As I explained a couple of posts up, the attempt to defend Zionite earlier was based on a misconception. He's very likely scum.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I study a smattering of psychology myself, and I find it quite difficult to imagine that Zionite would, in the theoretical case he was mafia, 'feel like there was no night 0' if, like any reasonably sapient mafia, he and his scummates were using night 0 to share information on abilities and put together some form of strategy.
The only remaining possibilites, at that point, are:
(1) SK. This is the only possible scum at this point, as Cult Leader is quite non-lethal.
(2) Vanilla townie. Very possible, and likely to forget the existence of night 0.
(3) Vigilante. Which, given, human psychology, is actually more likely to remember night 0 as 'the night I couldn't use this awesome ability'.
No points for guessing which I find the most likely at the moment.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Keep practising. You'll get there.
More seriously: nobody vigs on night zero.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Tell that to AzWOLGers. -_o;;
...more seriously, though. The way you're retroactively justifying the wagon makes me feel worse about you. Initially I thought the ones that jumped on were worse, but at least Wuffles admits it's bad logic...
...in fact, let's see where this goes. Unvote Wuffles_II, Vote Bateleur
@Diggy: You could try asking Tilde. He seems to like summarizing. ^_-
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
* Wuffles_II hits Loran with the Stupid Stick(TM) for that, again. *
Alx my post states how it could be exactly what Cyan and everyone else is talking about:
After hearing what everyone has to say I think that Bateleur's thinking is correct with the fact that Zionite does have an ability, however does that make him scum.. I think a lot less likely.
And I bring up once again only because of the non-responces I have gotten from Wrath_of_Dog: Post #85. (Nor anyone else.. Am I looking into something that shouldn't be looked at?)
unvote, vote descoures
In other news, I'm getting a townie vibe from Cyan and Wuffles.
I'm still happy with my vote on DC, he's been acting ever more scummy since I voted him.
OK, well that seems reasonable in and of itself...
...but isn't all that compatible with Zionite's chosen defence.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Wuffles_II (4) - Stormblind, WoD, Zionite, Alx2
DesCoures (3) - krowzy, RafaelK, Dragyn_Mage
Tanarin (3) - Sutherlands, dattebayo, Fadeblue
Zionite (2) - bateleur, Abandon hope
Abandon Hope (1) - Cyan
bateleur (1) - DesCoures
loran16 (1) - cunningfox
With 28 alive, it is 15 to lynch.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Sounds good, i'll drop it.
Wouldn't you think we are pass that stage Wuffles? (And thus drop the vote on you? Or at least explain why the vote is still there?)
Are there any more "random votes" Still casted? DYH just posted an update and I cannot tell anymore.
Hi loran!
I'm not sure what I think about descourses. Unless he's Minineko, I can't think of anyone else who acts remotely like him. And if he's acting it will fall apart eventually, they almost aways do. So I'll take him at his word for now that he's not a gimmick- and come to think of it, coming in with an account with basically no posts and then telling everyone you aren't a gimmick if you actually aren't is a bit WTF- in which case he's not lying. Although I still don't completely like some of the stuff he's doing, and will be keeping an eye on him, unvote.
Post #66: Terribly scummy vote on Wuffles. Says Wuffles OMGUSed him or something.
Post #68: Last part of this posts reeks of fishing. Didn't like his explanation of this.
Post #72: Ad hom attack on Cyan, huge deflection onto Cyan through irrelevent questions and the attack.
Post #127: Explains early FoSes on Wuffles and tanarin. Second half of this posts is horribly waffley.
Post #151: Is trying really hard to explain why he's so knowledgable about Cyan's playstyle, which I don't like. He seems to know a lot about other players' playstyles, but doesn't know that Wuffles as town is often overdefensive and takes things personally (because he attacked him as scum for it).
Post #153: States that he threw no suspicion Cyan's way. This is troubling, because this means he actually just attacked him for how he plays. He admitted to this, butthe unjustified attack is not gone unnoticed.
Post #186: Makes the Zionite case more black and white than it should be. There are many more possibilities than just him either be the SK, Vig, Town, or Scum. Not so sure what to think of this, actually, but I noted it.
Post #189: Votes bat over Wuffles. Admits that Wuffles is scummy, but votes Bat anyway. I don't like this because bat has at least a little bit of a good point in voting for Wuffles.
Paired with the iffyness of him saying he's new to Mafia but still being really knowledgeable about other players and frankly the game itself, which suggests he's probably a gimmick lying makes me feel that he's scum.
Is this vote count correct?
Umm, i am voting descoures. As i was voting bateleur originally and it didnt show up.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity