Eventually however, some of the delegates talk the room into a more subdued silence, a dignitary of a larger size, or perhaps its merely your interpretation of him, steps forward, "Listen ladies and gentlemen, this man here is obviously not one who has been involved in such activities much in the past. This we must keep in mind during our discussions."
Mod - can you tell us if this is flavor or mechanical?
I'll apologize if this sounds stupid, however I have just realized that we have only 8 minutes on the doomsday clock, and if the french president did a - of 2... It means that if we lynch the wrong person we could eliminate ourselves by Night 2 if we totally screw up. We've gotta be a bit more careful in our lynchings is all i'm saying. I guess i just wanted to make a reminder of the win/loss condition...
Also, just a theory on the clock, but if the french president -2 from the doomsday clock, that means he was considered a "good" man. Maybe the +/- are attributed to real world qualities of presidents/world leaders?
I'll apologize if this sounds stupid, however I have just realized that we have only 8 minutes on the doomsday clock, and if the french president did a - of 2... It means that if we lynch the wrong person we could eliminate ourselves by Night 2 if we totally screw up. We've gotta be a bit more careful in our lynchings is all i'm saying. I guess i just wanted to make a reminder of the win/loss condition...
Also, just a theory on the clock, but if the french president -2 from the doomsday clock, that means he was considered a "good" man. Maybe the +/- are attributed to real world qualities of presidents/world leaders?
...I hadn't noticed that. And I thought the clock was supposed to start at 17 from midnight? Wasn't that on the signup thread?
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
It was, but then it said it went down -7 in the past year, leaving us as 10. Then the french president was killed, leaving us at 8. Thats why i'm warning you guys. We have to be careful. Night two with a smart mafia and us screwing up = game over...
Post 69 - the start of your aggresion. The first 40ish+ posts were before the game even started, so it seems a little much for you to be attacking him
Post 112- you will still not let up about you believing there is no way he could possibly be joking and he must be serious.
Regarding Niv - he brought up what Charm addressed, on second thought, not so much on niv, but more on your over aggresion in the beginning and keeping up the same points after the very beginning stage of the game.
Voting No Lynch is not indicative of noobscum, it is simply indicative of someone being a noob period. Beyond that, it is a complete non-tell.
If anything, in this case, I would say it is a pro-town tell for him. He was clearly trying to be active in the game, he just didn't know where to seriously place his vote, and instead used a 'placeholder' vote.
If it's just indicative of someone being a noob period, why do you say it's a pro-town tell for him?
I don't like Cyan's minor flaming towards several of the players...however, it seems he does that every game. JSex's reply does make me think he knows something... Vote JSex
@ Dagger: Yep, I'm chaosjuggler. One and the same. My first game on this site? Lost Mafia. Yeah... that didn't really help my mafia experience. In ANY way. (Anyone remember Lost Mafia? There was one townie. Two mafia, and nine serial killers. Wow, what a failure)
Yes, It was a joke. A very poor one that would have greatly benefited from some sarcasm tags, but a joke nonetheless. If I could go back and edit sarcasm tags, I would, but that would result in a modkill, (and those are never fun).
Quite frankly, I think you are more than overreacting, as well as Pale Mage and AK, the other parts in the wagon on me. My one question is why? Actually, I know why, but what makes you think that it is a scum tell?
it ended in a draw between the 1 townie (a self-protecting doc) and one of the SK's. I believe it was the closest a SK had ever come to a win...before mushroom kingdom and TFC, of course. Also think it's the only game that's come to completion that ended in a draw.
JSex on the other hand is attacking the newbie. While it is in his wont as a Tinger to do so, it just seems off, like he knows something. more a gut feeling than much else to be honest.
You are voting JSexy based on a gut feeling? Do you perhaps know something we don't?
Just out of curiosity, can you summarize the case against JSexton for me? Just to, you know, confirm that you really vote him and not just barning someone else.
There's a point where you're going too far, though. Do you think (This question is to AK, too) that it's worthy to pursue this? Bil has said he was joking, and just because he didn't use repeatedly throughout his post as an indication he was joking doesn't make his intentions any more malicious or scummy. I mean, we have to use common sense here- would Bilbroxain (or any new player) go into a Mafia game not knowing that Day One No Lynch is horrible? Especially a Mafia game that isn't a newbie?
I want to answer as well! *raises hand*
I think it's worthy to pursue this. After all, look at all the reactions so far! How utterly illuminating!
It was, but then it said it went down -7 in the past year, leaving us as 10. Then the french president was killed, leaving us at 8. Thats why i'm warning you guys. We have to be careful. Night two with a smart mafia and us screwing up = game over...
Unnecessary caution and fear-mongering. If the game ends by tomorrow, we can lynch the Mod after that. For now, just play Mafia as usual.
No, I just wanted to show that perhaps people didn't realize that we only have 8 hours left instead of the 17 assumed from the beginning. I honestly didn't know that we had only 8 hours until i read the entire thread again. Again, i'm just saying that we don't want to be overeager in our attempts to end day 1. This lynch seems very important to me and killing a "townie" may result in not only a wrong death, but in less time. I'm just saying, maybe we should look to rational thought and not speed lynching, as i believe scum would like. You also need to be less accusatory because it only seems to make you look like your fishing for a wrong answer. My actions were not, as you stated, "Fear-mongering" and "Unnecessarily Cautious". It's just me reminding others of the situation we're in, and that it may not be the 17 hours that people thought it was. Calm down good sir. We'll get through day 1 soon enough. Let's just not waste it on a careless lynch.
We have 8 minutes left. That does not necessary equate to 8 hours, or any other units of measurements as we know it. We don't even know how will the day/night phases interact with the doomsday clock, or even if they do impact it in the first place. We have no reason to play any differently.
Do you have any reasons to believe the current pace of game will lead to any overeagerness or speedlynching? Do we show any sign of non-rationality? Does Day 1 seems like it's ending anytime soon? If all of them are not true, then why would you caution?
I was not the one panicking, nor the one warning others about it. In what way were I not being calm?
Also, you fear to answer said question? Do you think I'll fish for the wrong answer? I do not see why you were so explosive about it. I'll also note you went from lashing out at me to placating me in the space of a few sentences.
Ah, the hours were my mistake. I intended it to be minutes.
Your reaction to my first post was pretty much an accusation of scuminess, or atleast thats how i read it. It seemed that you jumped at the oppurtunity for a message that i intended only as a warning and a reminder.
I never stated that there was any sign of non-rationality as well, i only stated that we should use rational thought. Also, I stated that we shouldn't be overeager, and these two comments were not directed at you personally, they were directed at the general group of players. I thought that some of us were just biting at shadows when we could be better using that time to actually finding scum.
I will also state that I did not panic, but I did warn others about it. I take, for example, DesCoures, who stated that he/she didn't notice the change.
I also fail to see my "lash out" at you unless you consider my thought of you fishing for a wrong answer out of me the aforementioned lash out. If you were offended in any way or felt that it was an accusation, I would like to apologize. It seemed like you were fishing, so I stated what I understood your comment to be.
And no. I do not fear to answer your question. I'm not scum and I'm not sure if you'll fish for the wrong answer, but I am a noob, so I believe it possible to fish out the wrong answer from even here. Maybe i'm just paranoid at 1:22 am...
Also, was i really so explosive? I only stated that a bad lynch on day 1 is trouble. I stated that if the mafia is good/lucky, we could lose atleast 4 min off the clock. Another bad day lynch may lead so 2 minutes on the clock, and if the mafia get lucky again, we find a loss of 2 more minutes or more, and therefore we lose. I'm thinking of scenarios for the doomsday clock, as I believe its what we'll need to watch after day 1.
And please remember, if you think there's some kind of plot underneath this, i'm still trying to figure out proper "mafia" rules. Cut me some slack sir.
We have 8 minutes left. That does not necessary equate to 8 hours, or any other units of measurements as we know it. We don't even know how will the day/night phases interact with the doomsday clock, or even if they do impact it in the first place. We have no reason to play any differently.
Actually, from the signup thread, we do know what impacts the clock.
Also, you fear to answer said question? Do you think I'll fish for the wrong answer? I do not see why you were so explosive about it. I'll also note you went from lashing out at me to placating me in the space of a few sentences.
That's an interesting characterization. In what way is that 'placation' irreconcilable with the 'lashing out'?
I never stated that there was any sign of non-rationality as well, i only stated that we should use rational thought. Also, I stated that we shouldn't be overeager, and these two comments were not directed at you personally, they were directed at the general group of players. I thought that some of us were just biting at shadows when we could be better using that time to actually finding scum.
Point: on day 1, there generally isn't much else beyond shadows to claw at. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Sometimes there are things hidden in the shadows.
Also, was i really so explosive? I only stated that a bad lynch on day 1 is trouble. I stated that if the mafia is good/lucky, we could lose atleast 4 min off the clock. Another bad day lynch may lead so 2 minutes on the clock, and if the mafia get lucky again, we find a loss of 2 more minutes or more, and therefore we lose. I'm thinking of scenarios for the doomsday clock, as I believe its what we'll need to watch after day 1.
And please remember, if you think there's some kind of plot underneath this, i'm still trying to figure out proper "mafia" rules. Cut me some slack sir.
I don't actually think that all time mods are negative. That being said, I do agree that the Doomsday Mafia needs to die. Anyone like to admit to being a member?
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Oops. Last quote in above post was made by sandsoft_blue, not Dagger.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
1. Time Mods: Players are unaware of their Time Mods. Upon a players death, their time mod will be added/removed from the clock.
1) I don't like SSB's suggestion about how the "good guys" subtract from the clock, it smacks of inside knowledge.
Quote from Sandsoft Blue »
It means that if we lynch the wrong person we could eliminate ourselves by Night 2 if we totally screw up. We've gotta be a bit more careful in our lynchings is all i'm saying. I guess i just wanted to make a reminder of the win/loss condition...
Also, just a theory on the clock, but if the french president -2 from the doomsday clock, that means he was considered a "good" man. Maybe the +/- are attributed to real world qualities of presidents/world leaders?
The French President death scene doesn't correspond to a player dying, therefore it is probably flavor.
2) The mod mentioned that the scum have a "hitlist", presumably their wincon, but they probably don't know which players are on said list. My guess is it's a sneaky countermeasure against a mass-claim.
3) I can see the reasoning behind the no lynch, because no deaths = no change in the DD clock, but no lynch also puts the scum in the driver's seat, as they can control who lives and who dies.
4) Letting the clock hit midnight is probably bad for both the scum and town. Global Thermonuclear War isn't great for property values unless someone's a cockroach.
Specialty Rules: This game has a "doomsday Clock". This is a unique feature and begins at 17 minutes.
Each role has a "Time Mod" In which their death affects the clock by that modification. Once the clock hits 0 or lower, the Doomsday Mafia wins.
Once the hitlist mafia has killed its 11 target’s, it wins. If the Town eliminates both groups, it wins.
So it would seem that there's 2 mafia here. one can win by time-out, the other can supposedly win by the traditional scum method.
It makes sense that killing townies would advance the clock while killing scum would slow it down/rewind it, so I don't see SSB as necessarily having inside knowledge. Even with Tilde's assessment that no-lynches will likely not move the clock, it makes the town reliant on crosskills to get things done. I'd rather take the chance.
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EBWODP: this likely means absolutely nothing, but the wiki on the doomsday clock mentioned Armageddon clock as being based of the DDC. and we're playing with the doomsday clock on a magic site.
I'm probably seeing thing that aren't there, but is that at all ironic?
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EBWODP: this likely means absolutely nothing, but the wiki on the doomsday clock mentioned Armageddon clock as being based of the DDC. and we're playing with the doomsday clock on a magic site.
I'm probably seeing thing that aren't there, but is that at all ironic?
The game probably isn't designed that the town could lose in one day. The point totals are probably lower than that. But mislynches aren't advisable, I would think.
And letting the clock hit 0 is game over for the town, negative impacts of thermonuclear war to the scum notwithstanding.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Well it depends. My theory was that for townies killed, we get subtracted totals from the clock because they're "good". I took that from the french president's death. It's just an idea. So i thought that if we killed mafia, who are the "bad" people on the earth, we would appease? the clock and add to the time. Earlier it the game stated that the evil and the sinners were pretty much why the doomsday clock is so low, right?
And to answer AK's question, it still does. When we die, the clock still goes down. If it still goes down to 0, doesn't that mean they win, dead or alive?
1) I don't like SSB's suggestion about how the "good guys" subtract from the clock, it smacks of inside knowledge.
And to you ~Tilde~, it is a theory, because you know, noobs can think and make logical thoughts. It doesn't seem like its too hard to figure out if its based that way. Those who are corrupt and evil will increase the clock as we "purge" the world of sin. Those who were good and wanted to save the world will subtract the clock because there was a loss of a good person, therefore increasing sin in the world.
@SSB: I have two problems with your responses to me. First, you kept apologizing about antagonizing me. Second, you kept playing the newb card to explain the accusations against you. Both of these do not sit well with me. You seriously came across to me as trying to downplay whatever were being leveled against you and avoid any extended arguments. This again lead to my original point; you are very conscious of your image, something of which I see as a scumtell.
Now, as to the reason I queried you. Your statement about the Doomsday Clock indicated a mentality of someone who is hyper-aware of it. I don't think anything we can consciously do in the game will affect the Clock as the Time-Mods are hidden. Therefore, any actions to play around it will only cripple the town's scum-hunting capabilities. As such, I see your action as someone with a vested interest in the Clock.
Actually, from the signup thread, we do know what impacts the clock.
So far, we only know dead people impact the Clock. Do we have any way to play around that considering only the Mod knows the Time-Mods? Any reason to play differently? The answer is no unless we have more information with regards to it.
Pretty sure I was voting BilBro. I think RobRoy was still voting Sneaks.
I'd said "unvote" instead of "unvote Cyan", so apparently the vote on sneakyh didn't go through. Meh. It was a joke anyway. I will unvote Cyan at this time, though, as my joke on him was also a joke.
@Jsex: In order to speak for myself, not only does Cyan not have to speak for me, but I also have to be on. [/sarcasm]
Yes, It was a joke. A very poor one that would have greatly benefited from some sarcasm tags, but a joke nonetheless. If I could go back and edit sarcasm tags, I would, but that would result in a modkill, (and those are never fun).
Quite frankly, I think you are more than overreacting, as well as Pale Mage and AK, the other parts in the wagon on me. My one question is why? Actually, I know why, but what makes you think that it is a scum tell?
My problem with this is that, while I can completely believe that you didn't actually plan to have today end with a no-lynch, your followup comment - "When some more people post, I'll make a decision." - doesn't support that. It actually implies that you were using No Lynch not as a real vote, and not as a joke, but as a placeholder. Care to reply to this?
O ok, I guess i'll do that. Is that ok with the mod because I just saw you do it...so i'm not sure if I should do this or not. If the rest of you want me to, i'll continue reposting the results every page. Is that fine for you guys? If not, just tell me and i'll stop. And on a note to Charm Master, I believe that is what is known as circular logic, or circumlocution... O yes, talking in circles. Provide a real answer please?
The mod will provide fairly regular votecounts. Feel free to keep track of them yourself, and you can answer questions if the mod is away and someone wants an update (I do that too) but posting them every page is worse than useless, since it gets in the way of your real posts.
Also, circumlocution and circular logic are two completely different things.
Those who are corrupt and evil will increase the clock as we "purge" the world of sin. Those who were good and wanted to save the world will subtract the clock because there was a loss of a good person, therefore increasing sin in the world.
I'm just saying that there's not enough information out there in the open to make such a broad statement. You're saying that all townies who die reduce the clock, while all scum who die increase it, and while that may be true, conjecture like that this early, can lead to mislynches later in the game.
Post 69 - the start of your aggresion. The first 40ish+ posts were before the game even started, so it seems a little much for you to be attacking him
Post 112- you will still not let up about you believing there is no way he could possibly be joking and he must be serious.
Please explain why, exactly, you find those behaviors suspicious.
Regarding Niv - he brought up what Charm addressed, on second thought, not so much on niv, but more on your over aggresion in the beginning and keeping up the same points after the very beginning stage of the game.
I don't consider aggression nor consistency to be scum tells. Do you?
2) The mod mentioned that the scum have a "hitlist", presumably their wincon, but they probably don't know which players are on said list. My guess is it's a sneaky countermeasure against a mass-claim.
Disagree. I think it's very likely that they know exactly who they need to lynch in order to win. What's more, it probably includes both townies AND some members of the doomsday mafia. Which could be very much to our advantage.
4) Letting the clock hit midnight is probably bad for both the scum and town. Global Thermonuclear War isn't great for property values unless someone's a cockroach.
Read the rules again. There is a mafia group, separate from he ones with the hitlist, who NEED that clock to hit 0 to win.
So it would seem that there's 2 mafia here. one can win by time-out, the other can supposedly win by the traditional scum method.
Not quite. They have a hitlist, which, as I said, probably includes town and scum.
It makes sense that killing townies would advance the clock while killing scum would slow it down/rewind it, so I don't see SSB as necessarily having inside knowledge. Even with Tilde's assessment that no-lynches will likely not move the clock, it makes the town reliant on crosskills to get things done. I'd rather take the chance.
We have to lynch to win. No lynching out of fear of moving the clock is not a good plan here, although it's possible that we'll need to use it tactically at some point.
I'm just saying that there's not enough information out there in the open to make such a broad statement. You're saying that all townies who die reduce the clock, while all scum who die increase it, and while that may be true, conjecture like that this early, can lead to mislynches later in the game.
How? We still want to lynch scum, and avoid lynching townies. How does that assumption change that goal?
How? We still want to lynch scum, and avoid lynching townies. How does that assumption change that goal?
Suppose someone claims an information role that lets them know how much Time Mod other players have, and tells us that one player has a negative mod and another player positive. Does that change who you want to lynch?
To my nooby self, you haven't convinced me that Bil was serious and he's out to get us. It was still very early game when he brought it up, and it really doesn't rub me as warranting a lynch, hence why I pointed a finger at you. However, RoboBoy addressed something that I feel may actually have a point. The idea of voting no lynch, and then saying he'll (Bil) make a decision when more people posted.
One note, i Unvoted Sneaky back, after the random phase, and it wasn't taken off the thing. As another note, I'll Un-FoS Jsex because he seems as though he just might be onto something. However, I'll avoid doing more until Bil can explain his conflicting statements and such.
To my nooby self, you haven't convinced me that Bil was serious and he's out to get us. It was still very early game when he brought it up, and it really doesn't rub me as warranting a lynch, hence why I pointed a finger at you. However, RoboBoy addressed something that I feel may actually have a point. The idea of voting no lynch, and then saying he'll (Bil) make a decision when more people posted.
One note, i Unvoted Sneaky back, after the random phase, and it wasn't taken off the thing. As another note, I'll Un-FoS Jsex because he seems as though he just might be onto something. However, I'll avoid doing more until Bil can explain his conflicting statements and such.
People will vote for reasons other than a desire to lynch. People will vote for folks to apply pressure and gauge reactions.
I think it's very likely that they know exactly who they (Scum Team A for lack of a better term) need to lynch in order to win. What's more, it probably includes both townies AND some members of the doomsday mafia. Which could be very much to our advantage.
They might know the rolenames of who they need to kill, and it's likely that some if not all the members of Scum Team B (the group that wants the DDC to hit midnight) are on it, because the wincons are probably exclusive. But I find it difficult to think that there's a group of people who know from the start that "these 11 players must die for you to win." That's basically the mod telling Scum Team A they can ignore some players as irrelevant.
I do agree that both the town and Scum Team A are probably going to want Scum Team B dead though. (I'd call Scum Team B a "group SK" from a mechanics standpoint)
Quote from JSexton »
We still want to lynch scum, and avoid lynching townies. How does that assumption change that goal?
Ok, Hypothetical argument here. Let's say there is a "George W. Bush" role in this game. Would you categorize him as town because he's President of the United States? or would you categorize him as scum because his actions while in office have destabilized the entire Middle East, and thus increased global tensions. As I said, there's not enough info available this early to make sweeping judgements on who might and might not be town.
Edit while writing: RobRoy brings up a good point about the potential of a Timecop role changing the choice of a lynch.
Suppose someone claims an information role that lets them know how much Time Mod other players have, and tells us that one player has a negative mod and another player positive. Does that change who you want to lynch?
Mm. Hadn't considered that. Such a role seems like it might be a substitute for a cop in this game, and if so, I'd expect there to be the equivalent of Miller and Godfather, with backwards amounts.
*ponders*
Yes, I'd be inclined to lynch someone who had a positive mod. I think I'd treat it as equivalent to a cop investigation, assuming that the deaths in the first day or two confirm the theory that Town=negative and scum=positive.
To my nooby self, you haven't convinced me that Bil was serious and he's out to get us.It was still very early game when he brought it up, and it really doesn't rub me as warranting a lynch,
And I'm not really looking to lynch him at this point yet. I'm looking to get reactions from him.
hence why I pointed a finger at you. However, RoboBoy addressed something that I feel may actually have a point. The idea of voting no lynch, and then saying he'll (Bil) make a decision when more people posted.
One note, i Unvoted Sneaky back, after the random phase, and it wasn't taken off the thing. As another note, I'll Un-FoS Jsex because he seems as though he just might be onto something. However, I'll avoid doing more until Bil can explain his conflicting statements and such.
Mm. Hadn't considered that. Such a role seems like it might be a substitute for a cop in this game, and if so, I'd expect there to be the equivalent of Miller and Godfather, with backwards amounts.
*ponders*
Yes, I'd be inclined to lynch someone who had a positive mod. I think I'd treat it as equivalent to a cop investigation, assuming that the deaths in the first day or two confirm the theory that Town=negative and scum=positive.
Negative and positive values could be distributed throughout the town to help create tension between the two scum teams. I'm not sure I could treat a Timecop as an alignment cop until we had supporting evidence that we should.
The clock may also have other triggers for movement - maybe there is a powerful role, but to use their ability, the clock must move X minutes in one direction?
Regardless, speculating about it now and allowing it to paralyze our actions is NOT the way to proceed. Short of a mass claim, we won't be able to sort out the system until the clock actually moves, so lets just move on.
They might know the rolenames of who they need to kill, and it's likely that some if not all the members of Scum Team B (the group that wants the DDC to hit midnight) are on it, because the wincons are probably exclusive. But I find it difficult to think that there's a group of people who know from the start that "these 11 players must die for you to win." That's basically the mod telling Scum Team A they can ignore some players as irrelevant.
Interesting. I can see that as a possibility. It's more typical for a hitlist to have player names, at least in my experience, but I can see your way being a cool twist on it. I wish we had a way to know for sure, because each method has a very different implication for the game, and certain scum tells apply only to one method.
I do agree that both the town and Scum Team A are probably going to want Scum Team B dead though. (I'd call Scum Team B a "group SK" from a mechanics standpoint)
I'm calling them the hitlist mafia and the doomsday mafia, since, you know, that's what the mod is calling them.
Ok, Hypothetical argument here. Let's say there is a "George W. Bush" role in this game. Would you categorize him as town because he's President of the United States? or would you categorize him as scum because his actions while in office have destabilized the entire Middle East, and thus increased global tensions. As I said, there's not enough info available this early to make sweeping judgements on who might and might not be town.
I have no intention of basing my cases on the flavor of someone's role. I think that is pure folly. Any mod worth his while will make that sort of thing a non-starter. AbbeyG reviewed the game, and I guarantee he worked in countermeasures to flavor.
Short version: the mod can justify anything for flavor's sake.
That just means that there's not an SK in this game. 2 NKS isn't anything new/original. I'm still happy w/ my vote on JSexton. I find his 'voting to get a reaction' statement to be utter nonsense. The only reaction you will ever get out of voting a complete newb is a negative one, as anyone realizes. Seems more to me like JSexton was just trying to set the guy up.
The clock may also have other triggers for movement - maybe there is a powerful role, but to use their ability, the clock must move X minutes in one direction?
Regardless, speculating about it now and allowing it to paralyze our actions is NOT the way to proceed. Short of a mass claim, we won't be able to sort out the system until the clock actually moves, so lets just move on.
That just means that there's not an SK in this game. 2 NKS isn't anything new/original. I'm still happy w/ my vote on JSexton. I find his 'voting to get a reaction' statement to be utter nonsense. The only reaction you will ever get out of voting a complete newb is a negative one, as anyone realizes. Seems more to me like JSexton was just trying to set the guy up.
I am reminded again of why I thought you were scum for a long time in Fiasco. You have a very abrasive style, in case nobody ever told you that.
There are negative reactions, and then there are negative reactions. How he reacts to pressure does tell us things, and while we have to make allowances for his noobness in interpreting what he gives us, it is information. Information, in this game, is good.
This type of 'information' is invalid to begin with, because it comes from a tainted well, so to speak. Trying to differentiate between a 'newb' reaction to vote pressure and a 'newb scum' reaction to vote pressure is impossible, or nearly enough so that it's not worth the effort in a case like this.
This type of 'information' is invalid to begin with, because it comes from a tainted well, so to speak. Trying to differentiate between a 'newb' reaction to vote pressure and a 'newb scum' reaction to vote pressure is impossible, or nearly enough so that it's not worth the effort in a case like this.
Why did you jump on it so quickly? Why not let JSex overextend himself and then make the case?
Ironically, in my eyes at least, that is precisely what happened. And then his reaction to me was even more indicative of his scumminess. He completely acted like someone that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so to speak.
And JSexton acted like scum in this case, in my mind, where AK really just bandwagoned, which is something he is more likely to do as town. Especially with something so frivilous.
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I answered the questions he put out to me, his latest response was something about the list.
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Ande: like I said, it was a gut feeling. something about how he was attacking SSB seemed malicious, as opposed to inquisitive. It wasn't anything strong enough to go on, which is why I didn't vote or FoS him.
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Mod - can you tell us if this is flavor or mechanical?
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All prevote things, unless otherwise stated, are flavourbased and nothing else.
I was reading that to be a player (Cyan, presumably) defending BilB, not the mod stepping forward.
Also, just a theory on the clock, but if the french president -2 from the doomsday clock, that means he was considered a "good" man. Maybe the +/- are attributed to real world qualities of presidents/world leaders?
...I hadn't noticed that. And I thought the clock was supposed to start at 17 from midnight? Wasn't that on the signup thread?
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Post 69 - the start of your aggresion. The first 40ish+ posts were before the game even started, so it seems a little much for you to be attacking him
Post 112- you will still not let up about you believing there is no way he could possibly be joking and he must be serious.
Regarding Niv - he brought up what Charm addressed, on second thought, not so much on niv, but more on your over aggresion in the beginning and keeping up the same points after the very beginning stage of the game.
Okay. You're the 5th person on my List.
Ninja edit: menma is 6th.
If it's just indicative of someone being a noob period, why do you say it's a pro-town tell for him?
I appreciate the vote-counts, but I am more interested in comments.
Ominous, vague, and bandwagonny. 7th.
I am that one townie. As if I could forget.
You are being self-depreciating.
Also, I don't know why. Why?
It ended in a draw between 2 SKs.
You are voting JSexy based on a gut feeling? Do you perhaps know something we don't?
What if I tell you it wasn't a joke?
Just out of curiosity, can you summarize the case against JSexton for me? Just to, you know, confirm that you really vote him and not just barning someone else.
I want to answer as well! *raises hand*
I think it's worthy to pursue this. After all, look at all the reactions so far! How utterly illuminating!
Oh, I never do anything for laughs.
Unnecessary caution and fear-mongering. If the game ends by tomorrow, we can lynch the Mod after that. For now, just play Mafia as usual.
Are you perhaps, by chance, a scum?
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In one of my sentences i state "as i believe scum would like". I am refering to speed lynching on day one.
Do you have any reasons to believe the current pace of game will lead to any overeagerness or speedlynching? Do we show any sign of non-rationality? Does Day 1 seems like it's ending anytime soon? If all of them are not true, then why would you caution?
I was not the one panicking, nor the one warning others about it. In what way were I not being calm?
Also, you fear to answer said question? Do you think I'll fish for the wrong answer? I do not see why you were so explosive about it. I'll also note you went from lashing out at me to placating me in the space of a few sentences.
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Your reaction to my first post was pretty much an accusation of scuminess, or atleast thats how i read it. It seemed that you jumped at the oppurtunity for a message that i intended only as a warning and a reminder.
I never stated that there was any sign of non-rationality as well, i only stated that we should use rational thought. Also, I stated that we shouldn't be overeager, and these two comments were not directed at you personally, they were directed at the general group of players. I thought that some of us were just biting at shadows when we could be better using that time to actually finding scum.
I will also state that I did not panic, but I did warn others about it. I take, for example, DesCoures, who stated that he/she didn't notice the change.
I also fail to see my "lash out" at you unless you consider my thought of you fishing for a wrong answer out of me the aforementioned lash out. If you were offended in any way or felt that it was an accusation, I would like to apologize. It seemed like you were fishing, so I stated what I understood your comment to be.
And no. I do not fear to answer your question. I'm not scum and I'm not sure if you'll fish for the wrong answer, but I am a noob, so I believe it possible to fish out the wrong answer from even here. Maybe i'm just paranoid at 1:22 am...
Also, was i really so explosive? I only stated that a bad lynch on day 1 is trouble. I stated that if the mafia is good/lucky, we could lose atleast 4 min off the clock. Another bad day lynch may lead so 2 minutes on the clock, and if the mafia get lucky again, we find a loss of 2 more minutes or more, and therefore we lose. I'm thinking of scenarios for the doomsday clock, as I believe its what we'll need to watch after day 1.
And please remember, if you think there's some kind of plot underneath this, i'm still trying to figure out proper "mafia" rules. Cut me some slack sir.
Why menma? And what list? Maybe.... a hitlist?
Fear-mongering does very little this early on day 1. In any case, he may have overreacted somewhat, but otherwise it was a valid warning.
Also, do you honestly expect anyone to answer the question with anything but the same answer?
Actually, from the signup thread, we do know what impacts the clock.
That's an interesting characterization. In what way is that 'placation' irreconcilable with the 'lashing out'?
Point: on day 1, there generally isn't much else beyond shadows to claw at. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Sometimes there are things hidden in the shadows.
I don't actually think that all time mods are negative. That being said, I do agree that the Doomsday Mafia needs to die. Anyone like to admit to being a member?
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Oops. Last quote in above post was made by sandsoft_blue, not Dagger.
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1) I don't like SSB's suggestion about how the "good guys" subtract from the clock, it smacks of inside knowledge.
The French President death scene doesn't correspond to a player dying, therefore it is probably flavor.
2) The mod mentioned that the scum have a "hitlist", presumably their wincon, but they probably don't know which players are on said list. My guess is it's a sneaky countermeasure against a mass-claim.
3) I can see the reasoning behind the no lynch, because no deaths = no change in the DD clock, but no lynch also puts the scum in the driver's seat, as they can control who lives and who dies.
4) Letting the clock hit midnight is probably bad for both the scum and town. Global Thermonuclear War isn't great for property values unless someone's a cockroach.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
So it would seem that there's 2 mafia here. one can win by time-out, the other can supposedly win by the traditional scum method.
It makes sense that killing townies would advance the clock while killing scum would slow it down/rewind it, so I don't see SSB as necessarily having inside knowledge. Even with Tilde's assessment that no-lynches will likely not move the clock, it makes the town reliant on crosskills to get things done. I'd rather take the chance.
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I'm probably seeing thing that aren't there, but is that at all ironic?
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Is this relevant?
And letting the clock hit 0 is game over for the town, negative impacts of thermonuclear war to the scum notwithstanding.
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And to answer AK's question, it still does. When we die, the clock still goes down. If it still goes down to 0, doesn't that mean they win, dead or alive?
1) I don't like SSB's suggestion about how the "good guys" subtract from the clock, it smacks of inside knowledge.
And to you ~Tilde~, it is a theory, because you know, noobs can think and make logical thoughts. It doesn't seem like its too hard to figure out if its based that way. Those who are corrupt and evil will increase the clock as we "purge" the world of sin. Those who were good and wanted to save the world will subtract the clock because there was a loss of a good person, therefore increasing sin in the world.
Now, as to the reason I queried you. Your statement about the Doomsday Clock indicated a mentality of someone who is hyper-aware of it. I don't think anything we can consciously do in the game will affect the Clock as the Time-Mods are hidden. Therefore, any actions to play around it will only cripple the town's scum-hunting capabilities. As such, I see your action as someone with a vested interest in the Clock.
A List of Probable Scums and In Need of Rereads.
No, but it's sure fun as hell to see the reaction and gauge it.
So far, we only know dead people impact the Clock. Do we have any way to play around that considering only the Mod knows the Time-Mods? Any reason to play differently? The answer is no unless we have more information with regards to it.
When one wanted to defend oneself but didn't want to get into an extended argument.
BARN.
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I'd said "unvote" instead of "unvote Cyan", so apparently the vote on sneakyh didn't go through. Meh. It was a joke anyway. I will unvote Cyan at this time, though, as my joke on him was also a joke.
My problem with this is that, while I can completely believe that you didn't actually plan to have today end with a no-lynch, your followup comment - "When some more people post, I'll make a decision." - doesn't support that. It actually implies that you were using No Lynch not as a real vote, and not as a joke, but as a placeholder. Care to reply to this?
The mod will provide fairly regular votecounts. Feel free to keep track of them yourself, and you can answer questions if the mod is away and someone wants an update (I do that too) but posting them every page is worse than useless, since it gets in the way of your real posts.
Also, circumlocution and circular logic are two completely different things.
I'm just saying that there's not enough information out there in the open to make such a broad statement. You're saying that all townies who die reduce the clock, while all scum who die increase it, and while that may be true, conjecture like that this early, can lead to mislynches later in the game.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Please explain why, exactly, you find those behaviors suspicious.
I don't consider aggression nor consistency to be scum tells. Do you?
Disagree. I think it's very likely that they know exactly who they need to lynch in order to win. What's more, it probably includes both townies AND some members of the doomsday mafia. Which could be very much to our advantage.
Read the rules again. There is a mafia group, separate from he ones with the hitlist, who NEED that clock to hit 0 to win.
Not quite. They have a hitlist, which, as I said, probably includes town and scum.
We have to lynch to win. No lynching out of fear of moving the clock is not a good plan here, although it's possible that we'll need to use it tactically at some point.
How? We still want to lynch scum, and avoid lynching townies. How does that assumption change that goal?
Suppose someone claims an information role that lets them know how much Time Mod other players have, and tells us that one player has a negative mod and another player positive. Does that change who you want to lynch?
To my nooby self, you haven't convinced me that Bil was serious and he's out to get us. It was still very early game when he brought it up, and it really doesn't rub me as warranting a lynch, hence why I pointed a finger at you. However, RoboBoy addressed something that I feel may actually have a point. The idea of voting no lynch, and then saying he'll (Bil) make a decision when more people posted.
One note, i Unvoted Sneaky back, after the random phase, and it wasn't taken off the thing. As another note, I'll Un-FoS Jsex because he seems as though he just might be onto something. However, I'll avoid doing more until Bil can explain his conflicting statements and such.
People will vote for reasons other than a desire to lynch. People will vote for folks to apply pressure and gauge reactions.
They might know the rolenames of who they need to kill, and it's likely that some if not all the members of Scum Team B (the group that wants the DDC to hit midnight) are on it, because the wincons are probably exclusive. But I find it difficult to think that there's a group of people who know from the start that "these 11 players must die for you to win." That's basically the mod telling Scum Team A they can ignore some players as irrelevant.
I do agree that both the town and Scum Team A are probably going to want Scum Team B dead though. (I'd call Scum Team B a "group SK" from a mechanics standpoint)
Ok, Hypothetical argument here. Let's say there is a "George W. Bush" role in this game. Would you categorize him as town because he's President of the United States? or would you categorize him as scum because his actions while in office have destabilized the entire Middle East, and thus increased global tensions. As I said, there's not enough info available this early to make sweeping judgements on who might and might not be town.
Edit while writing: RobRoy brings up a good point about the potential of a Timecop role changing the choice of a lynch.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Hmm, something they didn't teach me in another game. Certainly something I didn't think of, but that would surely explain a lot.
Mm. Hadn't considered that. Such a role seems like it might be a substitute for a cop in this game, and if so, I'd expect there to be the equivalent of Miller and Godfather, with backwards amounts.
*ponders*
Yes, I'd be inclined to lynch someone who had a positive mod. I think I'd treat it as equivalent to a cop investigation, assuming that the deaths in the first day or two confirm the theory that Town=negative and scum=positive.
And I'm not really looking to lynch him at this point yet. I'm looking to get reactions from him.
This is a remarkably wishy-washy post.
Are you sure you are reading JSex's posts?
Negative and positive values could be distributed throughout the town to help create tension between the two scum teams. I'm not sure I could treat a Timecop as an alignment cop until we had supporting evidence that we should.
Regardless, speculating about it now and allowing it to paralyze our actions is NOT the way to proceed. Short of a mass claim, we won't be able to sort out the system until the clock actually moves, so lets just move on.
Interesting. I can see that as a possibility. It's more typical for a hitlist to have player names, at least in my experience, but I can see your way being a cool twist on it. I wish we had a way to know for sure, because each method has a very different implication for the game, and certain scum tells apply only to one method.
I'm calling them the hitlist mafia and the doomsday mafia, since, you know, that's what the mod is calling them.
I have no intention of basing my cases on the flavor of someone's role. I think that is pure folly. Any mod worth his while will make that sort of thing a non-starter. AbbeyG reviewed the game, and I guarantee he worked in countermeasures to flavor.
Short version: the mod can justify anything for flavor's sake.
No, lol, I missed 116 where he said he is poking him for some reactions. Kind of something I should have not missed the first time through.
We'll find out tonight.
Capital idea. What would you like to talk about?
I am reminded again of why I thought you were scum for a long time in Fiasco. You have a very abrasive style, in case nobody ever told you that.
There are negative reactions, and then there are negative reactions. How he reacts to pressure does tell us things, and while we have to make allowances for his noobness in interpreting what he gives us, it is information. Information, in this game, is good.
Why did you jump on it so quickly? Why not let JSex overextend himself and then make the case?
And JSexton acted like scum in this case, in my mind, where AK really just bandwagoned, which is something he is more likely to do as town. Especially with something so frivilous.
I answered the questions he put out to me, his latest response was something about the list.
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Okay.
I think he asked you stuff in post 169 or thereabouts. Big post, lots of quotes.
You haven't answered my question though.
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