Very fun game. Totally didn't expect so much scum at the end. LD was obvtown, but in an endgame with all anti-town forces, there was no chance for survival.
I think the council should review games that contain more than 30% scum roles from now on. The only reason the town lost was because after killing 8 scum and then mass-claiming, we would never have possibly imagined 4 more would still be alive.
The mass claim doomed the town, despite the fact 3 SKs and 3 players from one mafia and 2 players from the other mafia were already dead...in a 27 person game.
I think the council should review games that contain more than 30% scum roles from now on. The only reason the town lost was because after killing 8 scum and then mass-claiming, we would never have possibly imagined 4 more would still be alive.
The mass claim doomed the town, despite the fact 3 SKs and 3 players from one mafia and 2 players from the other mafia were already dead...in a 27 person game.
Yeah. Most games with multiple mafias/multiple SKs are doomed to failure, because mods overestimate the effect of cross-kills.
Yeah. Most games with multiple mafias/multiple SKs are doomed to failure, because mods overestimate the effect of cross-kills.
I think doomed to failure is the wrong phrase. More Prone to failure is the correct phrase.
As talked about earlier, Romance of the Three Kingdoms Mafia is a good example of how to do a multiple scum group game. In that game there were a potential 3 scum groups (At max 2 of which could kill at the same time, as did indeed happen throughout the whole game due to bad luck). The scum took up 10 of 23 there, which i guess is less egregious than here, but is close enough.
That said, scum percentages above 33% of the players (9 in this case) probably should be required to at least be run by some reviewer. In other words, if you plan on a game having over 33% of the total players being scum (so over 9 in this 27 person game) you should be required to have it reviewed. This is easily handled discreetly, as there's no need to reveal anything about your game to ask to have it reviewed before running it.
In this game, if there were just 10 scum with 2Sk and 2 mafias, it might have worked. 6 scum killers at once though is a bit much.
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Edit: nice setup, bluesoul. Very true to the source material. But how would you have dealt with a multiple-townie endgame? Kill off random people like you did here?
Actually, what I did in endgame was not random, but true to the canon of Battle Royale. In the manga, it's mentioned that Sho was not to be alive at the end of the program for any reason whatsoever as it would set a bad precedent in the face of the Republic's homosexuality laws. So the endgame played out as it would've in the actual BR world.
Multiple townies would've won the game, and then proceeded to Bonus Blocks where they all became SKs.
I don't see how the mass claim doomed the town, what doomed the town was TMT making a brilliant kill to take out 3 players with one shot. They just all happened to be townies. There were more town than scum alive at the beginning of the last day so I'm not going to take criticism in regards to balance very seriously. By the very nature of the flavor this was going to be a fast-paced, chaotic game, and it was.
Put it another way. The town outnumbered the scum by 3 at the beginning of the game with 27. At the beginning of the last day, with 9 alive...the town outnumbered the scum by 1, the exact same advantage they had at the start.
Put it another way. The town outnumbered the scum by 3 at the beginning of the game with 27. At the beginning of the last day, with 9 alive...the town outnumbered the scum by 1, the exact same advantage they had at the start.
It's a similar thing that happened in Star Trek mafia. There were only a handful of townies alive at the end of the game when the town won, but realistically, the mafia never really stood a chance.
6 kills day one when 27 are alive is a lot less gamebreaking than 3 kills when 9 are alive.
It's a similar thing that happened in Star Trek mafia. There were only a handful of townies alive at the end of the game when the town won, but realistically, the mafia never really stood a chance.
6 kills day one when 27 are alive is a lot less gamebreaking than 3 kills when 9 are alive.
Funny think is I was on both of the teams that didn't stand a chance.
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Congrats to DYH. I'm guessing he purposely got himself killed to lead the town into thinking his gang was wiped out.
EP and Cubus were obvscum from where I was reading. Would never have guessed on AKid, although that might have been because he didn't post much.
For the record, I posted what I did about LampDwellr because I'd hit the guilty investigation, but had a strong suspicion I was a paranoid cop, given the character name. (I also sent a fairly leading question to bluesoul, which I was fairly certain he wouldn't answer.) Problem was I couldn't take the chance I wasn't paranoid, so I hid the result the way I did. I certainly wasn't expecting to get killed for it.
The above was also why I said what I did about a massclaim leading to multiple townie deaths; because I suspected there might be multiple cop, doc, and vig claims. (As it turned out, with so many SKs, multiple vig claims would have been a real laugh.) No quack doc, though?
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I think doomed to failure is the wrong phrase. More Prone to failure is the correct phrase.
As talked about earlier, Romance of the Three Kingdoms Mafia is a good example of how to do a multiple scum group game. In that game there were a potential 3 scum groups (At max 2 of which could kill at the same time, as did indeed happen throughout the whole game due to bad luck). The scum took up 10 of 23 there, which i guess is less egregious than here, but is close enough.
That said, scum percentages above 33% of the players (9 in this case) probably should be required to at least be run by some reviewer. In other words, if you plan on a game having over 33% of the total players being scum (so over 9 in this 27 person game) you should be required to have it reviewed. This is easily handled discreetly, as there's no need to reveal anything about your game to ask to have it reviewed before running it.
In this game, if there were just 10 scum with 2Sk and 2 mafias, it might have worked. 6 scum killers at once though is a bit much.
The town succeeded in RotTK in part because the third scum group (Cyan's group) imploded. Had that game proceeded normally, it wouldn't have gone so well. The problem with multiple-mafia games is that mods get into the mindset of "oh, there are multiple killing groups, that means there will have to be some crosskills, which will balance out all these people I'm adding at the back end". This is fallacious. I'm not saying such games are impossible to balance and make work, but balanced multiple-mafia games are rare.
The above was also why I said what I did about a massclaim leading to multiple townie deaths; because I suspected there might be multiple cop, doc, and vig claims. (As it turned out, with so many SKs, multiple vig claims would have been a real laugh.) No quack doc, though?
You should have seen Lost Mafia. 9 SKs, 2 Mafioso, 1 Townie. I was the townie. And I claimed vig.
I think people are too stuck on the "balance" of this game.
Yeah, it's insanely swingy when you have six killing groups floating around. But just because it is swingy doesn't mean it isn't fun. Balance is definately an important part of mafia, but jesus this game was a blast. I mean, no group really had a significantly good chance at success, everyone was running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, and it made for a very entertaining game that was very true to the flavor.
Not telling the scum that they were scum was probably one of the biggest eff ups I've ever seen, but otherwise, I'm fine with the way this game was set-up.
I think people are too stuck on the "balance" of this game.
Yeah, it's insanely swingy when you have six killing groups floating around. But just because it is swingy doesn't mean it isn't fun. Balance is definately an important part of mafia, but jesus this game was a blast. I mean, no group really had a significantly good chance at success, everyone was running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, and it made for a very entertaining game that was very true to the flavor.
Not telling the scum that they were scum was probably one of the biggest eff ups I've ever seen, but otherwise, I'm fine with the way this game was set-up.
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Very fun game. Totally didn't expect so much scum at the end. LD was obvtown, but in an endgame with all anti-town forces, there was no chance for survival.
The mass claim doomed the town, despite the fact 3 SKs and 3 players from one mafia and 2 players from the other mafia were already dead...in a 27 person game.
Yeah. Most games with multiple mafias/multiple SKs are doomed to failure, because mods overestimate the effect of cross-kills.
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Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I think doomed to failure is the wrong phrase. More Prone to failure is the correct phrase.
As talked about earlier, Romance of the Three Kingdoms Mafia is a good example of how to do a multiple scum group game. In that game there were a potential 3 scum groups (At max 2 of which could kill at the same time, as did indeed happen throughout the whole game due to bad luck). The scum took up 10 of 23 there, which i guess is less egregious than here, but is close enough.
That said, scum percentages above 33% of the players (9 in this case) probably should be required to at least be run by some reviewer. In other words, if you plan on a game having over 33% of the total players being scum (so over 9 in this 27 person game) you should be required to have it reviewed. This is easily handled discreetly, as there's no need to reveal anything about your game to ask to have it reviewed before running it.
In this game, if there were just 10 scum with 2Sk and 2 mafias, it might have worked. 6 scum killers at once though is a bit much.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Actually, what I did in endgame was not random, but true to the canon of Battle Royale. In the manga, it's mentioned that Sho was not to be alive at the end of the program for any reason whatsoever as it would set a bad precedent in the face of the Republic's homosexuality laws. So the endgame played out as it would've in the actual BR world.
Multiple townies would've won the game, and then proceeded to Bonus Blocks where they all became SKs.
I don't see how the mass claim doomed the town, what doomed the town was TMT making a brilliant kill to take out 3 players with one shot. They just all happened to be townies. There were more town than scum alive at the beginning of the last day so I'm not going to take criticism in regards to balance very seriously. By the very nature of the flavor this was going to be a fast-paced, chaotic game, and it was.
Put it another way. The town outnumbered the scum by 3 at the beginning of the game with 27. At the beginning of the last day, with 9 alive...the town outnumbered the scum by 1, the exact same advantage they had at the start.
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I agree with this, SBs DD mafia was pretty well balanced for a game with 2 3-person mafias.
For example, if Maxx was in the other mafia, and TMT and Cubus were town, the game most certainly would have been more balanced.
It's a similar thing that happened in Star Trek mafia. There were only a handful of townies alive at the end of the game when the town won, but realistically, the mafia never really stood a chance.
6 kills day one when 27 are alive is a lot less gamebreaking than 3 kills when 9 are alive.
Funny think is I was on both of the teams that didn't stand a chance.
EP and Cubus were obvscum from where I was reading. Would never have guessed on AKid, although that might have been because he didn't post much.
For the record, I posted what I did about LampDwellr because I'd hit the guilty investigation, but had a strong suspicion I was a paranoid cop, given the character name. (I also sent a fairly leading question to bluesoul, which I was fairly certain he wouldn't answer.) Problem was I couldn't take the chance I wasn't paranoid, so I hid the result the way I did. I certainly wasn't expecting to get killed for it.
The above was also why I said what I did about a massclaim leading to multiple townie deaths; because I suspected there might be multiple cop, doc, and vig claims. (As it turned out, with so many SKs, multiple vig claims would have been a real laugh.) No quack doc, though?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
The town succeeded in RotTK in part because the third scum group (Cyan's group) imploded. Had that game proceeded normally, it wouldn't have gone so well. The problem with multiple-mafia games is that mods get into the mindset of "oh, there are multiple killing groups, that means there will have to be some crosskills, which will balance out all these people I'm adding at the back end". This is fallacious. I'm not saying such games are impossible to balance and make work, but balanced multiple-mafia games are rare.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
You should have seen Lost Mafia. 9 SKs, 2 Mafioso, 1 Townie. I was the townie. And I claimed vig.
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Yeah, it's insanely swingy when you have six killing groups floating around. But just because it is swingy doesn't mean it isn't fun. Balance is definately an important part of mafia, but jesus this game was a blast. I mean, no group really had a significantly good chance at success, everyone was running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, and it made for a very entertaining game that was very true to the flavor.
Not telling the scum that they were scum was probably one of the biggest eff ups I've ever seen, but otherwise, I'm fine with the way this game was set-up.
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Well said.
Well said.
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Meow.