1. How likely is this going to clear the person.
2. How many people have to name claim for this.
3. Is there any danger for you in giving the info.
In general, I support soft-claims, and so I'm not particularly bothered by #2. However, I disagree on dumping on twilight; if you do, it gives scum just as much chance to use it as if you'd given it during the day, only we don't get today's day-use from it.
I'd be in favor of either releasing it quickly or holding it for tomorrow.
I'm not too certain I like the way you list three 'considerations', then fail to expound on said considerations before coming to a conclusion.
The rest, however, seems more than reasonable.
(I still think anyone whose location is Hinamizawa has a much higher probability of being the SK, mind you. :P)
Twilight seems better than anything else. If you do it now, I'm worried a dying scum would claim it as his name in order to draw out the inevitable counterclaim.
...why exactly would such a counterclaim be particularly harmful to the town?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Well you see Guardman, their is this thing called the "random voting stage" and within this stage people vote random people, I hope this has been enlightening for you.
Well you see Guardman, their is this thing called the "random voting stage" and within this stage people vote random people, I hope this has been enlightening for you.
Actually I thought that we were out of the random stage, plus since you didn't give any humorous reason I thought it was a serious vote. My bad.
Also since we are out of the random (well it looks that way at least):
unvote kpaca
Well you see Guardman, their is this thing called the "random voting stage" and within this stage people vote random people, I hope this has been enlightening for you.
Why so confrontational?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
The fact being that either way I responded would have got a reaction from you, and either way you would try to incriminate me, for being to aggressive or for backing down to easily, so in the end it didn't matter what I said as long as I replied, but you can take your old English mumbo jumbo elsewhere because we don't need it.
The fact being that either way I responded would have got a reaction from you, and either way you would try to incriminate me, for being to aggressive or for backing down to easily, so in the end it didn't matter what I said as long as I replied, but you can take your old English mumbo jumbo elsewhere because we don't need it.
Not necessarily.
I'm interested in this early dissembling and apparent mood swing.
IGMEOY: The Fallen One
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Now, see, that would have been a much more convincing response.
You probably need to change your title first, though.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Milldawg has requested replacement. Hopefully I can confirm the replacement in the next day or so.
Quote from RafaelK »
solorpg replaces Milldawg, effective immediately
C:> scan file "solorpg"
scanning...
This file already exists. Do you want to overwrite?
C:> original filename "solorpg"
scanning...
File originally named "wrath_of_dog"
Wow is this party roudy, I am so not used to this. So far the members seem strange, but then again when are they not!
:: Roja laughs ::
The one called desCoures taught me that new trick. Who knew I could do things in color?? Awesome. He likes to play the piano a lot, some musical buff im sure. Maybe i'll request a song later. For now imma give him the nickname Piano man. Hmm maybe thats what i'll request.
Another member that has caught my eye was the one known as Toastboy. He's loud and then quite and then starts mimicing me.. ME of all people. I'll see if this continues and hope I don't do anything stupid.
And it seems we have a computer geek in the party. Which works for me, balance is everything!
Other then that I see nothing really happening, this place is still ugly blue and finally my headache has gone away.
There is talk about our names being revealed some sort of way.. I don't understand how helpful that could be. I'll participate if needed, but I don't see the point.
Oh! It seems the Witchatock has been replaced.
:: Roja Sighs ::
Color.. who knew? This IS fun.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
Meh, I guess it's not particularly harmful to the town to put a name to a face on day one. My original inclinations told me otherwise, for example, I thought it would be much better to put a name of a confirmed town to a face on day 4 or 5 as opposed to day 1, but I suppose it doesn't matter much. 6 of one = half a dozen of the other.
That being said, this discussion made me think of something - do we want to do a softclaim of: gender/first letter of name/first letter of persona? Or something of a similar nature?
Meh, I guess it's not particularly harmful to the town to put a name to a face on day one. My original inclinations told me otherwise, for example, I thought it would be much better to put a name of a confirmed town to a face on day 4 or 5 as opposed to day 1, but I suppose it doesn't matter much. 6 of one = half a dozen of the other.
That being said, this discussion made me think of something - do we want to do a softclaim of: gender/first letter of name/first letter of persona? Or something of a similar nature?
I was willing to overlook your first confusing non-answer post as just a bad post. But now here are two posts back to back where you not only give a confusing/convoluted possible non-answer, but then support a softclaim that is ridiculous and will tell us nothing. This seems very scummy to me, since it seems like you are trying to mislead us or try for some sort of weird wild goose chase.
I think I should get some reading glasses, or maybe take some time to understand what is being said.
The topic is if a player should announce the name of another townie.
:: Roja sits in one of those ugly blue chairs ::
So many questions about this...
Can this idea really help us out in the long run of things? How will it effect what the scum are trying to set up? Role names being exposed, is that good for us? Or should we wait for a better time for the info to come out? Now or never is a good way to think about this. Only time will really tell about how this will effect us.
First I think we should wait to see if anyone here has something like Jodo, if there are more then maybe the two are linked. I know I don't have any info on the matter, maybe someone else would. After the rounds of No's or yeses then the name should be exposed. However too many yeses would have me worried as well. I think this should happen before anyone claims any name.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
I was willing to overlook your first confusing non-answer post as just a bad post. But now here are two posts back to back where you not only give a confusing/convoluted possible non-answer...
Really? I'm pretty sure I answered the question.
but then support a softclaim that is ridiculous and will tell us nothing. This seems very scummy to me, since it seems like you are trying to mislead us or try for some sort of weird wild goose chase.
It's ridiculous? It will tell us nothing? How can you be so sure? Where's the misleading or the wild goose chase? From my eyes, a soft claim appears to be really good for the town.
It's ridiculous? It will tell us nothing? How can you be so sure? Where's the misleading or the wild goose chase? From my eyes, a soft claim appears to be really good for the town.
Question: How can you believe a soft claim in this game will be highly beneficial for the town when when you originally suggested it, you had no idea what we should claim.
What basis do you have for a soft claim to be effective in this game?
Question: How can you believe a soft claim in this game will be highly beneficial for the town when when you originally suggested it, you had no idea what we should claim.
What basis do you have for a soft claim to be effective in this game?
You don't answer it because you say you leaned one way and then the other and then said you suppose it doesn't really matter much. Finally you make some confusing comment about "6 of one = half a dozen of the other".
It's ridiculous? It will tell us nothing? How can you be so sure? Where's the misleading or the wild goose chase? From my eyes, a soft claim appears to be really good for the town.
Unless you can tell me how giving the first letter of my persona's name or my gender is going to help us in any way I think it is common sense to view them as futile and a possible wild goose chase (i.e. distraction).
So let me ask you, how does doing your soft claim do anything to help the town?
You don't answer it because you say you leaned one way and then the other and then said you suppose it doesn't really matter much. Finally you make some confusing comment about "6 of one = half a dozen of the other".
It means one thing = another thing and one isn't "strictly better."
I had an opinion in regards to something, and then I realized it's probably not harmful and neither is strictly better. My last statement was anything but nonsensical.
Unless you can tell me how giving the first letter of my persona's name or my gender is going to help us in any way I think it is common sense to view them as futile and a possible wild goose chase (i.e. distraction).
*Points at another game going on*
So let me ask you, how does doing your soft claim do anything to help the town?
Locks the scum into claims later on so they can't use future information to create a false claim because the basis for their claim must be already established when they know nothing from the town.
Whoa, what is this? A lot of voting all piling on the one as Some one. I think things are moving way fast and should slow down for a second.
:: Roja is dizzy from the players running past him to get in line to vote for Someone ::
I am not liking the 2 votes with really no reason why they are voting for Someone. Granted it is implyed on Someone's actions however I would prefer hearing what they have to say. I know I think that Someone's flip flopping IS something to question, however I always think Someone is guilty. I'll wait to see what he has to say, and wait to see what we are going to do about Jodo's info, as I feel it is important.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
First letter of name and first letter of persona will provide a sufficient soft lock; I will absolutely soft-claim first.
How will this provide a soft-lock exactly? There are so many ways to get around it, it isn't even funny.
Also I would say that we are going too fast except Some One has been throwing off scum tells left and right. I've yet to see anything to prove to me that he isn't scum.
...why exactly would such a counterclaim be particularly harmful to the town?
I don't see that you really addressed this. I think you got ahead of yourself. Could you go backtrack for a moment? If you feel I missed your answer, please tell me/point me to the post.
It's ridiculous? It will tell us nothing? How can you be so sure? Where's the misleading or the wild goose chase? From my eyes, a soft claim appears to be really good for the town.
I can see a minor benefit. I'd like to think about the risk, too. Btw...
How will this provide a soft-lock exactly? There are so many ways to get around it, it isn't even funny.
I'm not familiar with the source material. How tight is this soft lock? How many ways are there to get around it? How large is the risk of exposing specific personae to the scum?
I'd like to hear from anyone who's familiar with this universe on those topics.
Also I would say that we are going too fast except Some One has been throwing off scum tells left and right. I've yet to see anything to prove to me that he isn't scum.
I'm not familiar with the source material. How tight is this soft lock? How many ways are there to get around it? How large is the risk of exposing specific personae to the scum?
I'd like to hear from anyone who's familiar with this universe on those topics.
A soft lock isn't from the source material. A soft lock means a lock that is easy to get out of and only provides a stumbling block to those that aren't aware that it is there.
As for how to get out of it. For example I will say my character's name starts with R and my persona's D.
From there I only need to make sure that my character's name starts with R and my persona's starts with D.
Examples (character; persona)
(Roadrunner; Dino)
(Roll; Dean Coon)
(Ricky Lake; Daniel Webster)
As you can see all those names I put down as examples have character names that begin with R and Persona names that begin with D. Therefore it is an easy system to get around.
Also it implies that the Mafia will be given away if they claim truthfully for their character and persona. Which, unless Some One is scum, and therefore knows something we don't, would be unknowable to the town.
So we're not moving too quickly? Or we are?
Given what we have from Some One's posts I think we aren't moving too fast. We have gotten out of the random stage and we are now interrogating a likely scum suspect.
I don't know why we arent taking JodoYodo up on his offer.
If I understand correctly, he knows the rolename of someone who is a townie
The possible outcomes are:
1. One person claims the name, and we get a confirmed townie. - a positive outcome
2. Two people claim the name, and we lynch the right one, we catch a scum - positive outcome
3. Two claim, and we lynch the wrong one, and then we lynch the scum on day 2 / if there is a vig, the vig hits the scum on night 1. We trade a townie for a scum, which seems like a profitable tradeoff.
I would support a soft-claim and then JY presenting his information, and would claim as early as necessary.
The one called Pale mage came up to me sat down and asked me how I learned how to action in color. Could it be that i'm not the only one that didn't know?
So I decieded to show him how.
:: Roja does a remarkable impression of desCoures sauntering over to the piano and begins playing it... badly ::
Im not the best with music, (and everyone seemed to know it.) However it was what I can do to answer his question.
As for the one with some, I wonder if he knows anything about persona. Then again I wonder if anyone here knows whats going on, as I am lost in this blue hell.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
I don't know why we arent taking JodoYodo up on his offer.
If I understand correctly, he knows the rolename of someone who is a townie
The possible outcomes are:
1. One person claims the name, and we get a confirmed townie. - a positive outcome
2. Two people claim the name, and we lynch the right one, we catch a scum - positive outcome
3. Two claim, and we lynch the wrong one, and then we lynch the scum on day 2 / if there is a vig, the vig hits the scum on night 1. We trade a townie for a scum, which seems like a profitable tradeoff.
I would support a soft-claim and then JY presenting his information, and would claim as early as necessary.
The problems come with your first outcome. The way it will probably go is like this:
1. JodoYodo claims a name.
2. One person confirms the name
3. We get two confirmed townie (JodoYodo + ???) (or two clever scum)
4. One of them get's offed tonight because they are confirmed and possibly power
5. End result we end up with a confirmed dead town who is possibly a power role, and another one on the chopping block for tomorrow night
Your number one is also the most likely response. It is because of this chain of events that peaple are hesitant to support JodoYodo coming out.
How will this provide a soft-lock exactly? There are so many ways to get around it, it isn't even funny.
That is where you are mistaken. If everyone truly feels I have behaved so scummily that I need to claim, then the town has done a grave injustice unto itself. I would elaborate more, but there are things that obviously need not be mentioned at this moment in time.
Also I would say that we are going too fast except Some One has been throwing off scum tells left and right. I've yet to see anything to prove to me that he isn't scum.
Elaborate on each and every one of these tells. Your "non-sense" one was severely off-point, and you didn't respond to me calling you out on it.
I don't see that you really addressed this. I think you got ahead of yourself. Could you go backtrack for a moment? If you feel I missed your answer, please tell me/point me to the post.
I brought up the fact I don't see it as harmful, although I originally saw it as better if a name is attached to a face later on as opposed to now. From that, I adopted my six of one = half a dozen of the other viewpoint in which putting a name to a face now is not much different from later.
I can see a minor benefit. I'd like to think about the risk, too. Btw...
What would the risks be? I don't know of any.
...can you support this vote, please? Why Guardman? Be specific.
He seems exactly like scum trying to jump on a wagon in order to get it rolling. Much of what he said is ridiculous and off-point and reeks of opportunism.
I'm not familiar with the source material. How tight is this soft lock? How many ways are there to get around it? How large is the risk of exposing specific personae to the scum?
It's a good balance of tight and looseness. From what I read, there are personae that are inherently good and personae that are inherently bad.
As you can see all those names I put down as examples have character names that begin with R and Persona names that begin with D. Therefore it is an easy system to get around.
Naw dog.
Also it implies that the Mafia will be given away if they claim truthfully for their character and persona. Which, unless Some One is scum, and therefore knows something we don't, would be unknowable to the town.
And forcing the mafia into a lie on the first day is bad because...? It's good because we can catch the liars in the future. I don't believe the mafia can safely claim personae, as I believe everyone's persona is a real persona from the game.
Given what we have from Some One's posts I think we aren't moving too fast. We have gotten out of the random stage and we are now interrogating a likely scum suspect.
That is where you are mistaken. If everyone truly feels I have behaved so scummily that I need to claim, then the town has done a grave injustice unto itself. I would elaborate more, but there are things that obviously need not be mentioned at this moment in time.
I haven't asked you to claim yet. I am voting for you because you have been giving off scum tells. Would I like a claim, yes if you keep going the way you are.
Elaborate on each and every one of these tells. Your "non-sense" one was severely off-point, and you didn't respond to me calling you out on it.
1. Confusing Answers
2. Not answering/dismissing questions
3. Gaming the mod (new)
My nonsense statement was made in response to this statement "6 of one = half a dozen of the other". I would like you to explain that statement, because I am still confused by it.
He seems exactly like scum trying to jump on a wagon in order to get it rolling. Much of what he said is ridiculous and off-point and reeks of opportunism.
Opportunistic, maybe, but that is only because you gave me the opportunity to smell scum tells. But what in what I have said is ridiculous and off-point and why?
It's a good balance of tight and looseness. From what I read, there are personae that are inherently good and personae that are inherently bad.
I am sorry to break your bubble, but one there aren't really good and bad persona. I mean I know in P3FES the main character can use a Death persona (but that is the only one I have played).
Also what you are suggesting is clearly gaming the mod which is bad and a way for the town to get into a lot of trouble.
Naw dog.
I don't like how you dismiss a flaw in your plan with just "naw dog". That seems to me to mean you don't have a good counter-claim to your flaw.
And forcing the mafia into a lie on the first day is bad because...? It's good because we can catch the liars in the future. I don't believe the mafia can safely claim personae, as I believe everyone's persona is a real persona from the game.
There is nothing bad with forcing the Mafia into a lie day one. My problem is that this seems to be useless, futile, and a clear attempt to game the mod (especially when in conjuncture with the previous gaming the mod quote). But since this seems like a futile effort I will soft claim for you, because I don't think it will change anything.
My character's name starts with R. My Persona's name starts with D.
Naw dog.
I see you as the most likely scum right now. So I plan on shining the light on you.
I agree with Echophagy that it's suspect that SO suggested a soft-claim, but didn't have any idea what type of soft-claim to go with. And SO's immediate response of accusing Eco of fishing looks about as bad as possible. Vote Some One
The problems come with your first outcome. The way it will probably go is like this:
1. JodoYodo claims a name.
2. One person confirms the name
3. We get two confirmed townie (JodoYodo + ???)
Yay! ...?
(or two clever scum)
4. One of them get's offed tonight because they are confirmed and possibly power
These two statements are mutually exclusive.
5. End result we end up with a confirmed dead town who is possibly a power role, and another one on the chopping block for tomorrow night
The scum are killing someone (/some people) at night. "Possibly a power role" could apply to anyone. And, honestly, this is what doctors are for.
If JodoYodo doesn't claim, he could possibly die and lose the information. If he does claim, worst case scenario is that we trade 1:1, which is a pretty good worst case scenario, and much better than the first one.
On another note, Vote: Toastboy for super-fence sitting.
That is where you are mistaken. If everyone truly feels I have behaved so scummily that I need to claim, then the town has done a grave injustice unto itself. I would elaborate more, but there are things that obviously need not be mentioned at this moment in time.
I have a problem with this: the argument here appears to me as,
"Regardless of how scummy I claim to be, it's the town's fault for suspecting me because I have a power role and therefore shouldn't have to claim."
Now, I could be reading it wrong, but as it's written, that's all I get out of it. Unvote
Vote:Some One
Also, as andelijah noted, toastboy is super fence-sitting, and I would like to note that with a FOS, but I currently have a bigger problem with Someone.
Fos: Toastboy
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
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Replacement before first post. Is that a record?
Obviously a pro-town action.
Now for more serious matters...
-----------
@Nom_Anor
I'm not too certain I like the way you list three 'considerations', then fail to expound on said considerations before coming to a conclusion.
The rest, however, seems more than reasonable.
(I still think anyone whose location is Hinamizawa has a much higher probability of being the SK, mind you. :P)
@Some One
...why exactly would such a counterclaim be particularly harmful to the town?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Well you see Guardman, their is this thing called the "random voting stage" and within this stage people vote random people, I hope this has been enlightening for you.
Actually I thought that we were out of the random stage, plus since you didn't give any humorous reason I thought it was a serious vote. My bad.
Also since we are out of the random (well it looks that way at least):
unvote kpaca
Not that it really matters to begin with.
Why so confrontational?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
He's number 1 on the list.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Do you actually have a reason for this or is this another random stage vote.
*Guardman is confused by this blur between reality and fanta... er, random and non-random stage
Why are you so confrontational!?
But really, I was making a joke, it was all in good fun, but I see we are getting serious now so I'll stop.
Can't we all just.... get along? ;_;(fake)
Ah, Polonius; doth thy withered conscience betray thee again?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
The fact being that either way I responded would have got a reaction from you, and either way you would try to incriminate me, for being to aggressive or for backing down to easily, so in the end it didn't matter what I said as long as I replied, but you can take your old English mumbo jumbo elsewhere because we don't need it.
Not necessarily.
I'm interested in this early dissembling and apparent mood swing.
IGMEOY: The Fallen One
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I'm on my period
Now, see, that would have been a much more convincing response.
You probably need to change your title first, though.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I don't want to be your e-girlfriend O.O
Stop trying to sexually harass me O.O
C:> scan file "solorpg"
scanning...
This file already exists. Do you want to overwrite?
C:> original filename "solorpg"
scanning...
File originally named "wrath_of_dog"
Ah, a gimmick. Typical.
Action: Vote solorpg
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
:: Roja laughs ::
The one called desCoures taught me that new trick. Who knew I could do things in color?? Awesome. He likes to play the piano a lot, some musical buff im sure. Maybe i'll request a song later. For now imma give him the nickname Piano man. Hmm maybe thats what i'll request.
Another member that has caught my eye was the one known as Toastboy. He's loud and then quite and then starts mimicing me.. ME of all people. I'll see if this continues and hope I don't do anything stupid.
And it seems we have a computer geek in the party. Which works for me, balance is everything!
Other then that I see nothing really happening, this place is still ugly blue and finally my headache has gone away.
There is talk about our names being revealed some sort of way.. I don't understand how helpful that could be. I'll participate if needed, but I don't see the point.
Oh! It seems the Witchatock has been replaced.
:: Roja Sighs ::
Color.. who knew? This IS fun.
Everyone knowing that a player is confirmed town without knowing who that player is just seems better overall. Do you disagree with me in this regard?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
That's not an answer to the question.
Unvote
Vote: Some One
That being said, this discussion made me think of something - do we want to do a softclaim of: gender/first letter of name/first letter of persona? Or something of a similar nature?
I was willing to overlook your first confusing non-answer post as just a bad post. But now here are two posts back to back where you not only give a confusing/convoluted possible non-answer, but then support a softclaim that is ridiculous and will tell us nothing. This seems very scummy to me, since it seems like you are trying to mislead us or try for some sort of weird wild goose chase.
Vote Some One
The topic is if a player should announce the name of another townie.
:: Roja sits in one of those ugly blue chairs ::
So many questions about this...
Can this idea really help us out in the long run of things? How will it effect what the scum are trying to set up? Role names being exposed, is that good for us? Or should we wait for a better time for the info to come out? Now or never is a good way to think about this. Only time will really tell about how this will effect us.
First I think we should wait to see if anyone here has something like Jodo, if there are more then maybe the two are linked. I know I don't have any info on the matter, maybe someone else would. After the rounds of No's or yeses then the name should be exposed. However too many yeses would have me worried as well. I think this should happen before anyone claims any name.
Really? I'm pretty sure I answered the question.
It's ridiculous? It will tell us nothing? How can you be so sure? Where's the misleading or the wild goose chase? From my eyes, a soft claim appears to be really good for the town.
Unvote, Vote Guardman
:: Roja tears up the vote ::
Unvote Kraj
Question: How can you believe a soft claim in this game will be highly beneficial for the town when when you originally suggested it, you had no idea what we should claim.
What basis do you have for a soft claim to be effective in this game?
I don't have any sevens, go
all right then, what should we claim?
You don't answer it because you say you leaned one way and then the other and then said you suppose it doesn't really matter much. Finally you make some confusing comment about "6 of one = half a dozen of the other".
Let's see: Confusing non-committal answer + confusing nonsensical statement = scummy.
Unless you can tell me how giving the first letter of my persona's name or my gender is going to help us in any way I think it is common sense to view them as futile and a possible wild goose chase (i.e. distraction).
So let me ask you, how does doing your soft claim do anything to help the town?
Unvote, Vote: Some One
Other stuff:
Nice. TFO's reaction is indeed quite interesting.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
It means one thing = another thing and one isn't "strictly better."
I had an opinion in regards to something, and then I realized it's probably not harmful and neither is strictly better. My last statement was anything but nonsensical.
*Points at another game going on*
Locks the scum into claims later on so they can't use future information to create a false claim because the basis for their claim must be already established when they know nothing from the town.
Vote SomeOne.
Because of stuff he said after PM's vote.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
:: Roja is dizzy from the players running past him to get in line to vote for Someone ::
I am not liking the 2 votes with really no reason why they are voting for Someone. Granted it is implyed on Someone's actions however I would prefer hearing what they have to say. I know I think that Someone's flip flopping IS something to question, however I always think Someone is guilty. I'll wait to see what he has to say, and wait to see what we are going to do about Jodo's info, as I feel it is important.
First letter of name and first letter of persona will provide a sufficient soft lock; I will absolutely soft-claim first.
Yeeaah, bro...
Vote Cyan.
How will this provide a soft-lock exactly? There are so many ways to get around it, it isn't even funny.
Also I would say that we are going too fast except Some One has been throwing off scum tells left and right. I've yet to see anything to prove to me that he isn't scum.
Oh, just for fun: Where did desCoures teach you this? Hmm?
Not exactly. Here's the question again:
I don't see that you really addressed this. I think you got ahead of yourself. Could you go backtrack for a moment? If you feel I missed your answer, please tell me/point me to the post.
I can see a minor benefit. I'd like to think about the risk, too. Btw...
...can you support this vote, please? Why Guardman? Be specific.
I'm not familiar with the source material. How tight is this soft lock? How many ways are there to get around it? How large is the risk of exposing specific personae to the scum?
I'd like to hear from anyone who's familiar with this universe on those topics.
So we're not moving too quickly? Or we are?
A soft lock isn't from the source material. A soft lock means a lock that is easy to get out of and only provides a stumbling block to those that aren't aware that it is there.
As for how to get out of it. For example I will say my character's name starts with R and my persona's D.
From there I only need to make sure that my character's name starts with R and my persona's starts with D.
Examples (character; persona)
(Roadrunner; Dino)
(Roll; Dean Coon)
(Ricky Lake; Daniel Webster)
As you can see all those names I put down as examples have character names that begin with R and Persona names that begin with D. Therefore it is an easy system to get around.
Also it implies that the Mafia will be given away if they claim truthfully for their character and persona. Which, unless Some One is scum, and therefore knows something we don't, would be unknowable to the town.
Given what we have from Some One's posts I think we aren't moving too fast. We have gotten out of the random stage and we are now interrogating a likely scum suspect.
If I understand correctly, he knows the rolename of someone who is a townie
The possible outcomes are:
1. One person claims the name, and we get a confirmed townie. - a positive outcome
2. Two people claim the name, and we lynch the right one, we catch a scum - positive outcome
3. Two claim, and we lynch the wrong one, and then we lynch the scum on day 2 / if there is a vig, the vig hits the scum on night 1. We trade a townie for a scum, which seems like a profitable tradeoff.
I would support a soft-claim and then JY presenting his information, and would claim as early as necessary.
So I decieded to show him how.
:: Roja does a remarkable impression of desCoures sauntering over to the piano and begins playing it... badly ::
Im not the best with music, (and everyone seemed to know it.) However it was what I can do to answer his question.
As for the one with some, I wonder if he knows anything about persona. Then again I wonder if anyone here knows whats going on, as I am lost in this blue hell.
The problems come with your first outcome. The way it will probably go is like this:
1. JodoYodo claims a name.
2. One person confirms the name
3. We get two confirmed townie (JodoYodo + ???) (or two clever scum)
4. One of them get's offed tonight because they are confirmed and possibly power
5. End result we end up with a confirmed dead town who is possibly a power role, and another one on the chopping block for tomorrow night
Your number one is also the most likely response. It is because of this chain of events that peaple are hesitant to support JodoYodo coming out.
That is where you are mistaken. If everyone truly feels I have behaved so scummily that I need to claim, then the town has done a grave injustice unto itself. I would elaborate more, but there are things that obviously need not be mentioned at this moment in time.
Elaborate on each and every one of these tells. Your "non-sense" one was severely off-point, and you didn't respond to me calling you out on it.
I brought up the fact I don't see it as harmful, although I originally saw it as better if a name is attached to a face later on as opposed to now. From that, I adopted my six of one = half a dozen of the other viewpoint in which putting a name to a face now is not much different from later.
What would the risks be? I don't know of any.
He seems exactly like scum trying to jump on a wagon in order to get it rolling. Much of what he said is ridiculous and off-point and reeks of opportunism.
It's a good balance of tight and looseness. From what I read, there are personae that are inherently good and personae that are inherently bad.
Naw dog.
And forcing the mafia into a lie on the first day is bad because...? It's good because we can catch the liars in the future. I don't believe the mafia can safely claim personae, as I believe everyone's persona is a real persona from the game.
Naw dog.
I haven't asked you to claim yet. I am voting for you because you have been giving off scum tells. Would I like a claim, yes if you keep going the way you are.
1. Confusing Answers
2. Not answering/dismissing questions
3. Gaming the mod (new)
My nonsense statement was made in response to this statement "6 of one = half a dozen of the other". I would like you to explain that statement, because I am still confused by it.
Opportunistic, maybe, but that is only because you gave me the opportunity to smell scum tells. But what in what I have said is ridiculous and off-point and why?
I am sorry to break your bubble, but one there aren't really good and bad persona. I mean I know in P3FES the main character can use a Death persona (but that is the only one I have played).
Also what you are suggesting is clearly gaming the mod which is bad and a way for the town to get into a lot of trouble.
I don't like how you dismiss a flaw in your plan with just "naw dog". That seems to me to mean you don't have a good counter-claim to your flaw.
There is nothing bad with forcing the Mafia into a lie day one. My problem is that this seems to be useless, futile, and a clear attempt to game the mod (especially when in conjuncture with the previous gaming the mod quote). But since this seems like a futile effort I will soft claim for you, because I don't think it will change anything.
My character's name starts with R. My Persona's name starts with D.
I see you as the most likely scum right now. So I plan on shining the light on you.
I agree with Echophagy that it's suspect that SO suggested a soft-claim, but didn't have any idea what type of soft-claim to go with. And SO's immediate response of accusing Eco of fishing looks about as bad as possible. Vote Some One
These two statements are mutually exclusive.
The scum are killing someone (/some people) at night. "Possibly a power role" could apply to anyone. And, honestly, this is what doctors are for.
If JodoYodo doesn't claim, he could possibly die and lose the information. If he does claim, worst case scenario is that we trade 1:1, which is a pretty good worst case scenario, and much better than the first one.
On another note,
Vote: Toastboy for super-fence sitting.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Now that's just a misrep.
random vote. I always feel bad when the random vote stage gets passed without me.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
I would like DYH's reason for voting Someone. He just voted without saying anything.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
I have a problem with this: the argument here appears to me as,
"Regardless of how scummy I claim to be, it's the town's fault for suspecting me because I have a power role and therefore shouldn't have to claim."
Now, I could be reading it wrong, but as it's written, that's all I get out of it.
Unvote
Vote:Some One
Also, as andelijah noted, toastboy is super fence-sitting, and I would like to note that with a FOS, but I currently have a bigger problem with Someone.
Fos: Toastboy